Introduction GST for <$1000 goods (Australia)

[hendorog]

I'm not bothered so much. In fact, I support raising the GST generally but only if concessions are made elsewhere. Here's my reasoning:

GST is a consumption tax. It doesn't apply to basic foods (such as fresh fruit and vegetables, bread, meat and most dairy), some medical products and services, supply of water etc... In other words, those essential items are mostly GST-free. On the other hand, all the other stuff that I choose to buy is taxed.

FWIW GST applies to everything in NZ. IMHO the Oz way doesn't really make sense as it increases the complexity and hence the costs of the tax - presumably it had to be watered down due to political pressure when GST was introduced. Instead what they could have done was reduce the income tax for the lowest tax bracket to compensate for those who could not afford the tax on the essentials.

Everyone knows that the money for all the services and infrastructure has got to come from somewhere but I hear so many people in this country bitch and moan about paying extra taxes but are more than happy to be consumers of the system. Last financial year I paid over $30,000 in tax (and that's not including tax paid on GST items, fuel taxes etc...), yet I never use the Medicare system, I don't receive any benefits and I don't have children (although I seem to be paying for other people's kids to go to childcare). I'd be more than happy to pay every time I needed to see a doctor if it meant I was saving almost $1500/yr for a Medicare system I didn't use.

... but that's just me and I realise that my situation doesn't work for everyone.

So I had two ideas:

1. Everyone pays more in GST (i.e.: on products they choose to buy and therefore have greater control on how much tax they pay as individuals) but reduce taxes elsewhere where consumers have little to no control (Medicare, fuel, income tax...). I'd also support raising taxes on totally non-essential items such as alcohol and cigarettes. Essentially "flatten" the entire tax system so it's less complex.

or

2. Develop a system where tax payers can "opt out" of certain taxes, but contribute more or "opt in" to others. For example, I might opt out of paying the Medicare levy which meant I would no longer be entitled to Medicare and would have to pay my own doctors bill. Obviously the admin involved in implementing this sort of system is tricky, which is where raising the GST works better.

Above all, I'd like a greater say in where my hard-earned tax dollars go.

Ah user pays, which is a double edged sword. It's all good until you can't pay for whatever reason and get booted out of hospital.

[nowlan]

Im not looking forward to no duty free imports anymore.

However, the aus government can negotiate with ebay/amazon for them to collect tax on behalf of the sellers. Skim another 10% off sale price. Amazon already bill you tax for goods over 1k. They could put a barcode on cn22 docket etc for customs to see duty already collected. Would remove burden from small sellers.

I get the impressions only companies turning over 75k or something anyhow. Not sure if duty/gst should apply to used goods sold on ebay etc.

I remember getting burned on the $400 old system. Fedex demand the money before delivery a package.

[AlfBaz]

I got the impression from some reports today, that the intention isn't for the government to raise money, but more to cause pain to people buying stuff direct from overseas. To 'help local businesses' by making people buy locally.

From the electronics enthusiast's point of view this development seems to follow this government's agenda to stifle any growth in technology.
Aside from overseas where the hell else am I supposed to get T&M equipment, development boards/tools or decently priced components?

[TerraHertz]

From the electronics enthusiast's point of view this development seems to follow this government's agenda to stifle any growth in technology.
Aside from overseas where the hell else am I supposed to get T&M equipment, development boards/tools or decently priced components?

You say that ironically, as if you believe it isn't actually their intention to stifle any growth in technology in Australia.

But this is EXACTLY what they intend. The Oz government is fully on board with the NWO de-industrialization agenda. The idea is that all industry is baaad, and the sooner all the plebs drop dead the sooner the Elites can enjoy a planet with only about 500 to 800 million total population, very few of whom will have the benefits of any technology at all. They're also very willing to do everything they can to assist with the 'go and drop dead' part. De-skilling, dumbing down, and removing as much access to technology as possible is another part of the process.

[TheElectricChicken]

decently priced components?

The Dumpster ! also buying things for $1 local pickup only. My last printer ( which weighed a lot more than I do ) was a bonanza for just $1

I do agree with you overall though, and with Terrahertz, about the stupidity of it all. Learn to speak Chinese. Say 'Share Share' (thank you) at the Chinese restaurant next visit and you're on your way.

[SeanB]

They are introducing Mandarin as a language at schools here.

more things change the more they look the same.

[TheElectricChicken]

I'm so jealous. They only taught me English (which I failed) and barnyard sounds at school. I wasn't tested on the barnyard animal sounds thankfully, and I've been trying to learn more useful things since.

Gotta collect some more upgrades.

[John B]

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/New-legislation/In-detail/Indirect-taxes/GST/GST-on-low-value-imported-goods/

So this will be coming in soon. I buy a lot of few $$ items from china on ebay. From the sounds of it, ebay will be classified as the supplier and held responsible for passing on the tax?

Might have to do one last giant ebay haul over the next month....

[TerraHertz]

Holy shit, they actually did it.

Government is the enemy of the people.

I can't parse the legalese on the ato page, to figure out how this will affect posted parcels from overseas suppliers like Aliexpress, bookstores, etc, that are not based in Australia and not using Australian purchase channels like ebay.com.au.
Or overseas reshippers. Or purchase and importation of second hand equipment, say from US ebay.

[John B]

Holy shit, they actually did it.

Government is the enemy of the people.

I can't parse the legalese on the ato page, to figure out how this will affect posted parcels from overseas suppliers like Aliexpress, bookstores, etc, that are not based in Australia and not using Australian purchase channels like ebay.com.au.
Or overseas reshippers. Or purchase and importation of second hand equipment, say from US ebay.

I'm concerned that if customs doesn't see a valid barcode on the package which shows that it has come from a taxable supplier, they'll just confiscate and destroy those parcels.

[John B]

Imagine hundreds of thousands of parcels, each worth only a few dollars, being shovelled into a furnace...

[Brumby]

I'm concerned that if customs doesn't see a valid barcode on the package which shows that it has come from a taxable supplier, they'll just confiscate and destroy those parcels.

Is that in the legislation?

[Synthtech]

The government tried it on two years ago. Went to Ebay and said that Ebay will have to add GST to every overseas purchase maybe on Ebay By Australian buyers and remit it to the ATO. Ebay said “No”. Government said “you don’t have a choice”. Ebay said “Then from July 1st we will geo-block any buyer in Australia from being able to purchase from overseas sellers, they will only be able to shop within Australia. Let’s see how that works out for you at the next election”. Government drops the whole thing for another year.

[sleemanj]

I can't parse the legalese on the ato page, to figure out how this will affect posted parcels from overseas suppliers like Aliexpress, bookstores, etc, that are not based in Australia and not using Australian purchase channels like ebay.com.au.

I believe it's going to be an "easy targets" thing, the big targets, like eBay, Aliexpress and Amazon are the primary focus, a lot of small stuff will slip through the net, but by making the marketplace (as before, eBay, Aliexpress and Amazon) responsible for remitting the GST it makes them a single big easy target to collect from, and if that marketplace has ANY presence in your country then it becomes all the easier to enforce I expect, all three of those big targets have physical presences in Australia of some description.

Much like when here in NZ we introduced the so called "Netflix Tax" wherein we charged GST on services supplied from overseas, it was never going to "catch them all", just "catch the easy ones".

It will be interesting to see what happens on those three marketplaces specifically on the 1st of July or soon thereafter, NZ is closely watching how it plays out for you, because it's been strongly suggested that we will do the same in the next year or so.

[VK3DRB]

Our ear-bashing treasurer, Scott "Motormouth" Morrison has created a concoction of confusion for everyone about who is going to collect the GST. eBay is not a tax collection agency. And somehow, I cannot see Hu Flung Dung Enterprises registering with the Australian Tax Office. It is likely, many foreign companies and individuals will simply state, "WILL NOT SHIP TO AUSTRALIA". So if I buy something from China for $1 including free delivery, they are going to have to do all the paperwork to get another 10 cents out of me.

This new GST scheme might end up like the CB radio licensing scam of the late 1970's, where the knuckleheads abandoned their licensing tax because the cost of running their bureaucracy exceeded their income.

[VK3DRB]

Scott Morrison is also charging GST for software, like a game, downloaded from overseas. Within his short silences for taking a breath, he better think up a way to police it. His tax collection mechanisms will have more holes than Swiss cheese.

[DrGeoff]

Electronic delivery already has GST added at checkout. From graphics to audio and video production software, GST has been added for a while now.
So there must be some arrangement that allows these companies to easily work with it.

[julianhigginson]

this whole thing is so stupid and petty, so really it's not surprising to see from our stupid petty government.

The funny thing is though, that even with 10% GST on top of overseas prices, Australian big box retailers that offer NO VALUE AT ALL over an overseas web page, like old mate harvey (whose corrupt lobbying is what got us here) is still stupidly overpriced and annoying to buy from compared to the overseas prices, and so even with GST, it's still worth shopping overseas anyway over going to harvey norman to buy something when time permits... so it's actually changed nothing - just slugging people a bit more money and effectively driving the cost of living up a bit more.

lately most of my imports are business expenses anyway - so once it kicks in, I assume every invoice for everything I import will be a GST invoice, and so I'll take that part back immediately, out of the GST that I collect.

[VK3DRB]

this whole thing is so stupid and petty, so really it's not surprising to see from our stupid petty government.

The funny thing is though, that even with 10% GST on top of overseas prices, Australian big box retailers that offer NO VALUE AT ALL over an overseas web page, like old mate harvey (whose corrupt lobbying is what got us here) is still stupidly overpriced and annoying to buy from compared to the overseas prices, and so even with GST, it's still worth shopping overseas anyway over going to harvey norman to buy something when time permits... so it's actually changed nothing - just slugging people a bit more money and effectively driving the cost of living up a bit more.

lately most of my imports are business expenses anyway - so once it kicks in, I assume every invoice for everything I import will be a GST invoice, and so I'll take that part back immediately, out of the GST that I collect.

I avoid Hardly Normal, but recently purchased a Breville Barista Express coffee machine for my wife. Best price around, thanks to them matching an on-line price. If there is no value-add by the retailer, I just buy from wherever is the cheapest, within reason. By the way, my wife says the machine makes an excellent cup of coffee. I myself does not know what it tastes like, because I have never drank coffee in my entire life - not even a sip in over 50 years. Thanks to the GST that few people are aware of yet, now might be a good move to buy shares in Hardly Normal or JB.

hey, if Scott Morrison loses the next election, he could get a job as a butcher shop spruiker, ear bashing passersby at a high speed for hours without taking a breather.

[jazz]

The EU has passed a similar legislation last december, by the way, coming into effect in 2021.

So from 2021, there will be no vat exemption for imported goods below 22 Euros any more, and it seems like online platforms that handle the sales will be responsible for collecting vat.

Source is here:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/12/05/vat-on-electronic-commerce-new-rules-adopted/

[station240]

Where it really sucks is when the item you had shipped from overseas is secondhand anyway, and has already paid tax in it's home country long ago. eg spare parts, vintage equipment etc.

[jmelson]

The EU has passed a similar legislation last december, by the way, coming into effect in 2021.

So from 2021, there will be no vat exemption for imported goods below 22 Euros any more, and it seems like online platforms that handle the sales will be responsible for collecting vat.

Source is here:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/12/05/vat-on-electronic-commerce-new-rules-adopted/

Wow, this is a big deal!  I'm a micro-manufacturer in the US, but ship a lot of items to the EU.  I have just been leaving it to the customer to deal with any taxes, duties, VAT, etc. at their end.  Now, I'm going to have to collect taxes in US $ and pay them in Euros?  I do notice something about less than $10K Euros, and I definitely an under that limit, so maybe I don't have to deal with this.

Now, the US supreme court is working on a decision that could require all internet sellers to collect sales taxes for 12,000 taxing jurisdictions in the US.  (Some people say there are 16,000 jurisdictions.)  I can't possibly imagine how a one-man business could deal with all that paperwork!  I could set up a tax percentage for each of the 50 states, but if it has to be for 12,000 jurisdictions, it is just completely out of control.  Even filing sales tax payments to 50 different states would be a HUGE hassle!

Jon

[hendorog]

The EU has passed a similar legislation last december, by the way, coming into effect in 2021.

So from 2021, there will be no vat exemption for imported goods below 22 Euros any more, and it seems like online platforms that handle the sales will be responsible for collecting vat.

Source is here:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/12/05/vat-on-electronic-commerce-new-rules-adopted/

Wow, this is a big deal!  I'm a micro-manufacturer in the US, but ship a lot of items to the EU.  I have just been leaving it to the customer to deal with any taxes, duties, VAT, etc. at their end.  Now, I'm going to have to collect taxes in US $ and pay them in Euros?  I do notice something about less than $10K Euros, and I definitely an under that limit, so maybe I don't have to deal with this.

Now, the US supreme court is working on a decision that could require all internet sellers to collect sales taxes for 12,000 taxing jurisdictions in the US.  (Some people say there are 16,000 jurisdictions.)  I can't possibly imagine how a one-man business could deal with all that paperwork!  I could set up a tax percentage for each of the 50 states, but if it has to be for 12,000 jurisdictions, it is just completely out of control.  Even filing sales tax payments to 50 different states would be a HUGE hassle!

Jon

The same change is happening here in NZ, basically riding on the back of Australia. Govt just scored got another income stream.

One option with the paperwork is to outsource it to a company who will take care of all of that on behalf of the seller. The eBay international stuff works that way now with Pitney Bowes. They act as a Customs broker and pre-pay the duty so it sails straight through Customs here.

[wasyoungonce]

Here's my take on this 10% gst on goods, what is it.... $20 or more or such like down from $1K.

Been mentioned the $1K limit was introduced as inspection collection fee was non viable for goods under.

Now this is out the door, called the Harvey Norman (HN) tax.  HN is a proprietor of a bricks and mortar stores who built their model on importing low and reselling high!  He now sub-lets depts proprietors, like white-goods dept, smalls, TVs...etc in his stores and has trailing commissions and sacks low performing  proprietors.   This way he maximises his income, at the expense of consumers and proprietors.   I know one who was sacked forced out because of their internal constant power struggling. "dog eat dog world".  Hes an Australian Bars%$rd. who has the ear of governments.

He campaigned government for this and is anti Amazon all because his bricks and mortar system is now failing to keep pace to todays online world.
   
So to actually incept this system would need tens of thousands of postal tax collectors, which aint going to happen.  More than our military someone said.

So the government wants OS suppliers sellers to collect this and fwd this to the Australian tax office.....yeah right that is going to happen.

The Chinese sellers won't give a toss some may see a method of rorting and keeping the collections and OS sellers either won't care nor understand.

I heard similar system is in Canada done thru boarder control and this delays goods arriving by ...a a long time.

Can Canadians pls correct me on this and or say their experiences!

So I expect this to all fail I'll buy from sellers who do not collect this "tax" and I hate HN and our incumbent government while big business is getting away with ...last year alone 500+ billion dollars in off shore tax minimisations.  Yet they have done nothing on this and it gets worse each year.

Where is the equity.

Arrrrrhhhhh!  Don't get me wound up on this

/rant!

[jazz]

The EU has passed a similar legislation last december, by the way, coming into effect in 2021.

So from 2021, there will be no vat exemption for imported goods below 22 Euros any more, and it seems like online platforms that handle the sales will be responsible for collecting vat.

Source is here:
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2017/12/05/vat-on-electronic-commerce-new-rules-adopted/

Wow, this is a big deal!  I'm a micro-manufacturer in the US, but ship a lot of items to the EU.  I have just been leaving it to the customer to deal with any taxes, duties, VAT, etc. at their end.  Now, I'm going to have to collect taxes in US $ and pay them in Euros?  I do notice something about less than $10K Euros, and I definitely an under that limit, so maybe I don't have to deal with this.

There seem to be two different changes. One is for European sellers, and the 10K Euro limit seems to be for them.

The Other change is for non-European sellers. I'm not a lawyer and definitely not an expert on European law, but the way I understand it, you will still be able to have the customer deal with any taxes/duties etc. if they buy directly from you, with the difference that they now have to pay even if the value is below 22 Euros. But if a customer buys something from overseas through a European platform/marketplace, that platform will have to collect vat from the customer. How exactly that would work I don't know. Also, i could be totally misunderstanding the text and be completely wrong.