Is it difficult to buy a car in Australia?

[Circlotron]

First and only new car I bought in 1985. After all the usual paperwork was done, the salesman asked if I would like to have this extra-cost rustproofing done. (Salt is not used on roads there in Australia). I asked him would the car rust in the first five years if I didn't have it done? If it would then I didn't want the car. If it wouldn't then I didn't want the rustproofing. He changed the subject...

[Brumby]

Is registration tied to ownership in Australia?

I can only speak from what I know about NSW - but no.  The rego papers are treated like a title - but they don't hold any legal status like the deed to a property.  It's become so much a defacto title that I think the majority of car owners would be surprised if they knew the facts.

Does that mean a leased car is registered by the lease holder, and a company provided car is registered by the company which owns it? I'm more used to a car being registered by its keeper.

As far as I understand, you can have one person (or other legal entity) have the right of ownership and a completely different person (or other legal entity) appear on the registration papers.  The former can modify, sell or even scrap the car.  The latter gets the notices, such as registration renewals and camera captured violations.

However, the driver (who could be a third person) is responsible for the vehicle being roadworthy and registered when they take it out onto public roads - and if anything isn't right, they will get the ticket for it, just as they would get a ticket for speeding.

[Halcyon]

Title as in receipt of ownership, e.g. a deed to a house, Something that shows you own it no matter who pays the land tax, or the council rates,

E.g. I own the registration of my car, My mother is primary user of the car for the past 4 years, Its referred to as my car, but in a defacto sense she would be the owner,

Or 2 years ago I bought a trailer off someone from another state, And I let the registration lapse because It was for use on private land, Technically he is the last owner the government would be aware of, so If he insisted, he could probably have it reclaimed,

Is registration tied to ownership in Australia? Does that mean a leased car is registered by the lease holder, and a company provided car is registered by the company which owns it? I'm more used to a car being registered by its keeper.

That's correct. The registered owner is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. You cannot sell the vehicle without the consent of the registered owner. In the case of a lease car, you are still the registered owner, but there is a "security" recorded against the vehicle. If you're driving a company vehicle, the registered owner is usually the company. Anyone can own/register a vehicle (whether you hold a driving licence or not). If a vehicle is infringed and the driver is not present, the ticket goes to the registered owner, it's up to them to nominate who was driving, if they can't/won't, there are additional penalties and they wear the original ticket.

[razberik]

I watched other Cadogans videos.
There might be some useful information, however, they are told in monstrous complicated language with so much time-wasting pad that I consider his videos waste of time.
Other content creators are more informative.

He cannot even say "Hello" in less than 20 words.

[stevelup]

But the price negotiating process in new car dealers shocks me.

It's entirely normal here in the UK to be able to get 8-10% off even premium brands such as BMW. And that 10% is a considerable amount of money on a £50k car.

I'm the opposite - it amazes me when people -don't- haggle. It's effectively just burning money.

[Bassman59]

I'm not a fan of car sales people either. I very much prefer to buy a car directly from someone else. When I go look for a car my price is fixed. If I don't get it for the price I want I won't buy it and wait for another good deal to come up.

@Bassman59: but how about non-branded car sellers and garages? Or don't they exist?

In most states, new cars are only available for purchase through a branded, franchised dealer, for the reason I mentioned. Some states allow new-car "brokers" which arrange sales, but ultimately the purchase is made from a franchised dealer.

To be clear: the franchised dealer displays the vehicle manufacturer's brand name and the idea is to make the customer think that the Ford Motor Company controls the business. But that's not true. The franchise is an independent business, a middleman, who has agreements with the manufacturers to advertise and sell the cars.

It is almost impossible for a manufacturer to pull the franchise from a bad dealer, even one which gets a shit-ton of complaints.

Used vehicles are a different story. A franchised dealer will often have used cars for sale, even of other brands. But most used cars are sold through independent used-car dealers or private-party (person-to-person) sales.

[Bassman59]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I can drive to California or New Mexico and buy a new car and register it in Arizona without any problems.

[coppice]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I can drive to California or New Mexico and buy a new car and register it in Arizona without any problems.

What happens with warranty claims and servicing when you buy from a distant dealer?

[stevelup]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

[Bassman59]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I can drive to California or New Mexico and buy a new car and register it in Arizona without any problems.

What happens with warranty claims and servicing when you buy from a distant dealer?

Any franchised dealer will take care of warranty claims, regardless of where you purchased the car. After all, for warranty work the dealer's service department is reimbursed by the factory. The warranty is issued by the manufacturer.

As for regular service (oil changes, what-not) and out-of-warranty repairs, any dealer will do the work and charge you for it.

It's no different from buying a new car in New Jersey and a year later moving to Arizona and then needing warranty work or regular service or repairs.

Edit to add: all of the dealers push extended warranties. Those aren't issued or backed by the manufacturer, and they're not issued by the dealer. They are third-party deals. Those extended warranties are to be avoided. There is no guarantee that if you move out of state that they will be handled, and the issuers of those warranties are notorious for doing everything possible to avoid paying claims.

[coppice]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

Car warranties in the UK have always been provided by the manufacturers, but it used to be hard to get warranty work done unless you went to the dealer you bought the car from. There can be a big difference between what is supposed to happen and what does.

[Halcyon]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I understand. As I said, they don't exist. It's not uncommon to have competing dealers next door to each other.

[sokoloff]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

Car warranties in the UK have always been provided by the manufacturers, but it used to be hard to get warranty work done unless you went to the dealer you bought the car from. There can be a big difference between what is supposed to happen and what does.

That's odd. Most of the profit of the dealership is made in the service bays, not on the showroom floor.
Warranty work is done by the dealer and reimbursed (at a profit) by the manufacturer. It would be odd for a dealer to turn down that money and I've never experienced a difference (in the US) between warranty work at the selling dealer and at another dealership.

[coppice]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

Car warranties in the UK have always been provided by the manufacturers, but it used to be hard to get warranty work done unless you went to the dealer you bought the car from. There can be a big difference between what is supposed to happen and what does.

That's odd. Most of the profit of the dealership is made in the service bays, not on the showroom floor.
Warranty work is done by the dealer and reimbursed (at a profit) by the manufacturer. It would be odd for a dealer to turn down that money and I've never experienced a difference (in the US) between warranty work at the selling dealer and at another dealership.

Historically car prices have been really high in the UK. So much so that the Japanese car makers used to refer to the UK as Treasure Island. There might have been a lot more money in selling a car in the UK versus the US.

[TerraHertz]

At the extreme informal end of the spectrum, no, it's easy. Here's an old car I just bought for $150. It's similar to my old car, it's just out of rego and will never be registered again (due to rust.) The intention is to strip it for spare parts for my car.
It was originally going to be free, but the owner had to fit new tires and brake pads in the last months of its active life. So the $150 is for those.
The entire deal was, he drove it here (on its last day of rego and insurance), I handed him the cash, then drove him home in my car. Done.

Actually with a little rust repair it would be registerable. But I' not going to bother.
One thing I need is a replacement interior heater. Quoted nearly $400 to buy. So just for that it's worth it.

[hneve]

I see it is a old thread but it is relevant for my situation and maybe someone will respond me based on their experience.

So, I want to buy a new car but I can't find anything suitable in Australia. I am looking for more than 6 months. But I found a lot in USA. I thought of shipping but I know how hard it is. Can someone give me any tips? Maybe somebody ordered cars from the USA.

[coppice]

I see it is a old thread but it is relevant for my situation and maybe someone will respond me based on their experience.

So, I want to buy a new car but I can't find anything suitable in Australia. I am looking for more than 6 months. But I found a lot in USA. I thought of shipping but I know how hard it is. Can someone give me any tips? Maybe somebody ordered cars from the USA.

Are you OK with a left hand drive car in Australia?

[Halcyon]

I am not sure if I understand him. Is it really difficult to buy a new car in Australia? He calls cardealer "your enemy". What is the problem with walking away from that specific dealer to another dealer?
Methods he describes are applicable to buying pretty much anything. If I am not happy with some seller I go to another.

Also, he criticizes pretty much every car brand from around the world. The only makers he is OK is perhaps KIA, Hyundai and Mazda. Absolutely everything other is a crap.

Actually buying a car is not difficult. Anyone can walk into a car dealer, fill out some paperwork and you have a car. The point John makes is that car dealers will often try to screw you, if not on price, make other false representations about a vehicle, just to get you to buy it. Their job is to get a much of your money as possible and a lot of them use high-pressure tactics to do so. Buying a car is a large investment for most people, so you really need to go armed with all the information you need to make a sensible purchase (not one that is driven by emotion).

John's videos are typically quite good, and largely based on facts. However he does let his personal biases creep in every now and again. He's absolutely right, when it comes to Chinese cars (Chery, BYD, Great Wall, MG etc...), they are absolute junk and to be avoided. But the same can also be said for brands/models all over the world. Cars are a bit like computers, there is no one "right" car, it depends on individual circumstances and needs. For whatever reason, John has some kind of soft spot for Subaru and tends to gloss over their weak spots. I've driven several modern Subaru models recently and my opinion of them is that they have average build quality, they are quite tinny, relatively powerless and the "smart" technology is bloody annoying to drive with. Mechanically, they might be a solid purchase, but several models are known for their "electrical gremlins" (notice how many Forester's, Outback's and Impreza's have faulty tail lights, for example -- Once you see it, you can't un-see it!).

Anecdotally, I've noticed a huge uptake of Subaru's mostly by those who are in the older generations. All around Sydney and indeed other parts of Australia, if there is a queue of traffic in the right-hand lane, typically there is a Subaru driver at the front holding everyone up.

EDIT: I just realised this is an old thread that I commented on earlier. I still maintain my comments above.

[brucehoult]

I see it is a old thread but it is relevant for my situation and maybe someone will respond me based on their experience.

So, I want to buy a new car but I can't find anything suitable in Australia. I am looking for more than 6 months. But I found a lot in USA. I thought of shipping but I know how hard it is. Can someone give me any tips? Maybe somebody ordered cars from the USA.

I don't know the exact facts for Australia, but my understanding is that they still make it very difficult to privately import a car, in order to protect their now non-existent car manufacturing industry. Much the same reason that bananas in Australia (where they are grown) cost about three times more than in NZ (where they are imported).

A friend did just take his NZ car to Australia when he moved there. I believe that you must have already owned it for several years, and he told me that you can do this once in your life.

Here in NZ, things were hugely loosened up in the early or mid 90s and individuals started flying to Japan, buying 2 or 3 or 4 used cars three to five years old, bring them to NZ, and sell all but one at a good profit. Then used car dealers started to do it in bulk. In the last 30 years the majority of "new to NZ" cars sold are used imports from Japan. I remember one of the first models seen in large numbers used was the 1991 (?) Nissan Primera. My parents had one. Then used Legacy / Impreza/ Forester / WRX became HUGE. Subaru in NZ had something like 3% of the new car market, but suddenly they had maybe I don't know 20% or 30% of the "new to NZ" market. Also, as I recall, Subaru and Mazda very quickly announced they would be glad to service and support used imports (they after all make most of the money on any car from servicing over its lifetime), while some other brands were very much "If you didn't buy it from us in NZ then we won't service it  .. and for sure can't guarantee we have spare parts".

[brucehoult]

I've driven several modern Subaru models recently and my opinion of them is that they have average build quality, they are quite tinny, relatively powerless and the "smart" technology is bloody annoying to drive with. Mechanically, they might be a solid purchase, but several models are known for their "electrical gremlins" (notice how many Forester's, Outback's and Impreza's have faulty tail lights, for example -- Once you see it, you can't un-see it!).

Hmm ... I've never noticed faulty tail lights on Subarus ... certainly not on any of mine. I also haven't driven or looked at new ones. I bought a 1995 Legacy 250T (touring wagon, 2.5 na auto) in 2001 with 98k km and on sold it at 250k km in 2012 to someone who I know used it until 350k despite them taking it for a swim in the ocean at around 280k. The replacement (bought in 2012) was a 1997 Grandwagon (early Outback) in the same green Foresters of that generation came in, and with the same 2x5 manual gearbox, but 2.5 engine. I used that until I moved to the USA in 2019 and sold it to my cousin who used it trouble-free until someone rear-ended him at which point it was 25 years old.  In the USA in 2019 I bought a 2017 Outback Touring, which I only owned for 11 months as I returned to NZ when COVID started. Back in NZ, on the first day of Level 3 Lockdown being reduced to Level 2 (mid May 2020) I took a rental car to another city (previously illegal) and bought a 2008 Outback 2.5XT "Eyesight" with 87k km. That's a special model issued in recognition of Subaru's 50th anniversary, with only 2000 made: 265 HP turbo engine (tuned for low end torque, with the peak at 2400 RPM), various STI bits, and -- they claim it was the first car in the world -- stereo camera-based adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, pre-collision braking, etc. I've owned it since, and have no plans to ever sell it.

https://www.subaru.co.jp/news/archives/08_04_06/08_05_08_02.html

So ... at least the older Subarus are great. They are not the most exciting cars in any respect (well, the turbo ones are quick) but what I can say is unusual about them is they don't ANNOY me in any respect. They simply get the job done without fuss, with as good reliability as anything else, and have outstanding safety ratings.

[jonovid]

what about the dealers aftermarket service?
40 years ago most cars were less complicated and manufactured locally in Australia so aftermarket service was less important.
you could fix it yourself if you had the knowledge and a lot of us did do our own grease and oil change at the time.
but today's complicated new cars are so very dependent on ongoing dealers aftermarket diagnostic service.
a liability if any of it fails.

[victorb]

I'm from Australia too and was looking for a car recently. I also couldn't find what I wanted here, but not because it's impossible; the local options just didn't appeal to me. Shipping from the USA seemed tricky, especially because they have left-hand drive cars, which can be a hassle here. Instead, I shipped my car from the UK.

The cost wasn't as bad as I thought. I used a guide from https://www.a1autotransport.com/what-does-it-cost-to-ship-a-car-to-australia/ to understand the expenses and process. It said that shipping costs usually range from $2,100 to $4,025 USD, but older cars need a special license to import. The site helped me get a handle on the costs and requirements. In the end, I paid around $3,500 USD to ship my car.

[Halcyon]

I've driven several modern Subaru models recently and my opinion of them is that they have average build quality, they are quite tinny, relatively powerless and the "smart" technology is bloody annoying to drive with. Mechanically, they might be a solid purchase, but several models are known for their "electrical gremlins" (notice how many Forester's, Outback's and Impreza's have faulty tail lights, for example -- Once you see it, you can't un-see it!).

Hmm ... I've never noticed faulty tail lights on Subarus ... certainly not on any of mine. I also haven't driven or looked at new ones.

It's the new(er) ones that have the issue. Less so with very new ones with LED tail lights (maybe they finally solved the issue?). Subarus definitely aren't what they used to be.

The last Outback I drove had that infuriating EyeSight system. Even driving normally would trigger it (and I'm a defensive driver). I ended up disabling it each time I got in the car, as it was safer with that crap off. It was a "song and dance" I've had to do with a handful of cars, pressing various buttons before you even release the park brake, to disable things like auto stop/start which just re-enable themselves next time you start the vehicle.

The issues with EyeSight aside, it's something I've noticed with a lot of modern cars: Distractions. All kinds of bings and bongs, you spend half the time wondering what the hell a particular noise means rather than focussing fully on the road. A while ago I drove a Toyota C-HR and every few minutes it would "ding". For days I had no idea what the hell it was until I worked out that it was a notification every time you entered or left a school zone (where a 40km/hr speed limit applies). I ended up drilling down various menus and turning all that shit off. It didn't completely silence the car, but it reduced the number of distractions significantly. The only warnings I ever want to see or hear in a car are: If there is something wrong with the vehicle or if a crash is imminent.

[brucehoult]

The last Outback I drove had that infuriating iSight system. Even driving normally would trigger it (and I'm a defensive driver). I ended up disabling it each time I got in the car, as it was safer with that crap off. It was a "song and dance" I've had to do with a handful of cars, pressing various buttons before you even release the park brake, to disable things like auto stop/start which just re-enable themselves next time you start the vehicle.

I don't know what's infuriating about it. Other than the lane departure warning -- which in my car has a dedicated overhead button to turn it off (which is permanent, not every time you start it) -- EyeSight does nothing unless you enable cruise control -- or are about to crash into something. If you use cruise control in an EyeSight-equipped car then it works exactly the same as any other car if there is no one else around, but if you catch up to someone then it decreases your speed to match theirs rather then running straight up their tail-pipe. At least if the closing speed is low enough. If you're doing 80 mph and they're doing 30 (or stopped) then detection may be too late and all it can do is soften the crash. It's a driver aid, not "You can go to sleep now".

I've never had a Subaru with auto engine stop/start. My current 2008 certainly doesn't, and the 2017 I had in the USA didn't either. I guess that's more recent. Done right, it should be unobtrusive. It wasn't in the rental Corolla I had last week :-(  But in the 2011 rental Prius I currently have engine stop/start is basically undetectable except by watching the system display on the dash. Of course in the Prius is helps that it moves off under electric power instantly and then cranks up the engine later if needed.

[Circlotron]

All this driver assist stuff that newer cars seem to have, I wonder if you had an accident and they were turned off, could your insurance company use this as an excuse to try and wriggle out of covering you? Likely they could scan the main computer to check the state of a multitude of things at the time of the accident.