Is it difficult to buy a car in Australia?

[razberik]

I have watched this:

and other videos from this man.

I am not sure if I understand him. Is it really difficult to buy a new car in Australia? He calls cardealer "your enemy". What is the problem with walking away from that specific dealer to another dealer?
Methods he describes are applicable to buying pretty much anything. If I am not happy with some seller I go to another.

Also, he criticizes pretty much every car brand from around the world. The only makers he is OK is perhaps KIA, Hyundai and Mazda. Absolutely everything other is a crap.

[Brumby]

I am not sure if I understand him. Is it really difficult to buy a new car in Australia? He calls cardealer "your enemy". What is the problem with walking away from that specific dealer to another dealer?
Methods he describes are applicable to buying pretty much anything. If I am not happy with some seller I go to another.

Your observations about what he is saying are correct.  Where these may seem to be puzzling will come from a difference in culture, personality and/or knowledge - IMHO.

If you come from a background where haggling is common, you are already ahead on several of his points.  If you are wary or cynical about what a salesman says - and about what you tell them, then you are less likely to give up information that they will use to their advantage as well as not blindly accepting everything they say.  Add to that having specific knowledge - such as that which John Cadogan shares with you or points you to - and you will be at less of a disadvantage in negotiations.

Unfortunately, many car buyers in Australia can be classified as sheep and even the ones with a bit more self assertiveness may not know all the angles.  This is the sort of person John Cadogan is addressing.


The only aspect of which I have no knowledge about for dealerships outside Australia is the monthly sales target.  Within Australia I can attest to the reality of it - and the power you can wield, not only for new car sales, but also used.

I inadvertently discovered this when I had to get a new vehicle with more seating due to family growth.  I'd let this task slide for too long and when I finally got my act together, I had a month and a bit to get the job done.  I started off assessing the vehicles that would satisfy the basic requirements and then eliminated all but one.  I had the cash on hand for a decent second hand vehicle and had no interest in splashing out big bucks for a new one  I then had 4 weekends in a rather wet April to locate and secure the best example that I could find and afford.

Checking out vehicles in various car yards introduced me to the usual bullshit - but one thing I noticed was the value of my trade-in.  Across all the car yards, the average increased each subsequent weekend.  By the last weekend, the trade-in amount had doubled from the beginning of the month.  I closed a deal on that last weekend.

A few months later I was talking to someone in the car trade and mentioned that I had worked out how to get the best deal on a car - turn up ready to sign on the last weekend of a wet month.  He looked like he wanted to take my head off.  That quota pressure is very real here in Oz.

[Bassman59]

I am not sure if I understand him. Is it really difficult to buy a new car in Australia? He calls cardealer "your enemy". What is the problem with walking away from that specific dealer to another dealer?

I don't know about Australia, but here in the U.S., the car dealer is absolutely your enemy.

And it's not like you can just go to another dealer -- with territory agreements, there might not be another dealer of that brand within a reasonable distance.

In most States, there are laws against a car manufacturer selling directly to consumers. To buy a car, you must go through a franchised dealer. One might think that there is some value-add to that, in the sense that the salesperson knows everything about the products, but that's not true. The last two new cars I bought, I came in with information about the car I wanted, and then I asked the salesguy pointed questions about the cars, and in every case, he opened a web browser on his computer and looked it up on the manufacturer's web site.

And do you know why these laws exist? Because dealership owners are rich, because they don't own just one, they own many dealerships across all brands, and these guys fund political campaigns. Here in southern Arizona is a car dealer named Jim Click, who presents this "aw shucks" folksy image, but he is literally the largest funder of Republican political campaigns in the state. And he is why Tesla doesn't have any dealerships in the state, because Tesla refuses to play the franchise game and even though polls of citizens say that Tesla and other manufacturers should be able to sell direct, they can't.

Plus their service departments are complete rip-offs. (The techs are usually quite competent, but it's the service department managers  who set the policies, and they're all about making money.)

Car dealers are absolute scumbags. I can't wait until I'm able to go to the local Costco and order a new car and bypass the entire ripoff process.

[nctnico]

I'm not a fan of car sales people either. I very much prefer to buy a car directly from someone else. When I go look for a car my price is fixed. If I don't get it for the price I want I won't buy it and wait for another good deal to come up.

@Bassman59: but how about non-branded car sellers and garages? Or don't they exist?

[Rerouter]

In every case the car dealer is your enemy in negotiations, they want to sell for the highest price, you want to buy for the lowest.

I do fittings for bus and truck dealers, It is ridiculous how often they will let the batteries go dead-dead flat on a brand new vehicle, only to jump start it on the day of the sale and say things like "Yeah it might not start once you stop it" during delivery, And only putting enough fuel in the tanks for the customer to be able to drive to the nearest servo, e.g. 5L

Even buying my first car, I paid a fair price for it, but all the tires where nearly thread-less, because while I was inside arranging payment they swapped them because they wanted to flog them, I went back to them over that BS, but not everyone would eye the tires before driving out.

I've also recently discovered they did some really shitty panel beating on it as rust spots are now starting to appear under the paint,


TLDR: Its easy to buy a car, its hard to get a fairly priced one without shenanigans.

[Halcyon]

I am not sure if I understand him. Is it really difficult to buy a new car in Australia? He calls cardealer "your enemy". What is the problem with walking away from that specific dealer to another dealer?
Methods he describes are applicable to buying pretty much anything. If I am not happy with some seller I go to another.

Also, he criticizes pretty much every car brand from around the world. The only makers he is OK is perhaps KIA, Hyundai and Mazda. Absolutely everything other is a crap.

John Cadogan is a very knowledgeable and well respected journalist. He has "no bullshit" way of presenting and while his videos are far from politically correct, who cares? The content is absolutely spot on.

Buying a car in Australia isn't difficult at all. What John is referring to are the typical high-pressure sales tactics car dealerships use, not only in Australia but all over the world. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from walking away from a car dealer or in most cases you can cancel the sales contract during the cooling-off period (however it will cost you a small amount).

Negotiating the price of a new or used car is almost expected, even recommended. If you aren't happy with the price, you can always give them your best offer and see if they will meet it. There is always "wiggle room" built into the ticket price of a car, they just won't tell you (honestly) how much buffer there is.

A car salesman isn't your friend, he is looking to make a sale at the best possible price. If buying a used car, they will down-play or omit any problems the car might have, it's up to you to discover them yourself or have the vehicle inspected by someone who is qualified. Some laws do also apply, for example, a car dealership can't just sell you a defective death-trap of a car, if you want a piece of crap that isn't roadworthy, you go to a wreckers or someone dodgy.

As for criticising almost every car brand; he does so because he doesn't favour one brand or another. If a car maker turns out a crap model (and they all have) then he'll take them to task over it.

Enjoy his videos, I do. He is a great source of knowledge.

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

[aargee]

Yes, the dealer is the enemy. As much as they pretend to look after you in sales and service, it really is about the bottom line.
In most businesses you hope there is a balance in providing service, care and profit, as Brumby states, here in Aus it's all about the money.
I personally dread the whole car buying process, it's akin to going into battle.
No clue sales people who often tell blatant lies, which may be due to ignorance but that's no excuse. Having the skills of an engineer in research and technical detail will beat sales hands-down every time and even with service managers.
Service departments charging triple the cost of oils, etc. even down to trying on an $18 charge for a remote battery *every* time you bring the car in for a service.

When I buy a car now a figure out my five year strategy, if I'm prepared to spend on their service and sales as a whole package, I also get a quote from them for the service costs for the next 'x' years on paper.

I have watched a bit of John Cadogan's work on you tube, some of it's good stuff but he looks at his car as a 'get me from A to B and that's it' hence the most bang for buck push of vehicle brands such as Kia and Hyundai, some of us like some longevity and style (even if it's a personal choice) in a car.

I know Hyundai have improved, but many years ago I had to drive from Cairns to Townsville in a Hyundai buzz box (small car) rental. Topping out at around 90 km/h and the interior fittings were clearly cardboard (as opposed to the well disguised cardboard used now days  ), every time a semi-trailer went past, all the air vents would slam shut and the glove box would fall open. That sort of sticks with you.

But yes, it really is like the video.

[razberik]

What  The entire process with negotiating price is totally strange to me.
In place where I live, the cars have their prices on stickers like anything else - milk or bread in grocery or washing machine in electronics store.
I can open car brand website, configure the vehicle with desired options, print this configuration with calculated price and bring it to the dealer - I receive it and the price is final.

But hey, perhaps I am not the right person for this topic since I never bought a new car nor I am willing to buy in far future.

Different situation is used car dealers - they are 99% idiots and crooks and I would never buy a car there. The prices (they are on stickers) are usually like +20% compared to cars sold by individuals.
There might be involved some process similar to that described in John Cadogans videos, but used car dealers here are for people who are absolutely clueless about cars.

But the price negotiating process in new car dealers shocks me.

[VK5RC]

Cadogan's 'job' is 'selling' youtube videos plus his car retailing side business. He is a car seller so he is also 'your enemy'. His over the top style makes entertaining and funny watching. Most of what he says is true, but he has a strong 'bang for buck' philosophy. Kia/Hyundai feature alot - perhaps his sales margin is good there (cynical hat on).
In Aus (arse-stralia) in Cadoganese, the recommended retail price is the starting point, recently I got 8k off the recommended retail price with just a bit of haggling.

[georges80]

Didn't see anything in that video that isn't obvious. I've bought new vehicles in Oz and also here in the US, it's essentially the same recipe. So called sticker price/MSRP is already a very marked up and inflated price. Then add in other bs charges like rust proofing, dealer delivery etc.

Maybe the purchasing process is 'new' to a young person that has never bought a car before or never had the insight on how to negotiate passed down from his parents.

Consider that if the salesman gets you to pay $500 more and he's taken 2 hours to do it, he has made $250 per hour... Haggle down for every dollar you don't want to have to work to earn. And yes, manufacturer paying a bonus to a dealer for shifting volume off the lot is real, so even getting a vehicle for 'dealer cost' likely means the dealer has still made some profit.

cheers,
george.

[Halcyon]

Cadogan's 'job' is 'selling' youtube videos plus his car retailing side business. He is a car seller so he is also 'your enemy'.

I'm not sure if it was an attempt at a joke (context doesn't always translate well over text) but just to be clear, John Cadogan isn't a car salesman, he's a journalist. He makes the same money off his services regardless if you buy a BMW or Volvo, or choose to opt for a Ford Mustang death-trap, a Subaru shitbox or a Mercedes Benz with defective AWD.

He is very much bang-for-buck but that doesn't cloud his judgement if something is faulty, dangerous, defective or under-engineered, you can't polish a turd (so to speak). The majority of his target audience are wanting a decent car which ticks a lot of boxes for the lowest possible price. They generally aren't the people buying high-end, luxury vehicles.

Many of his videos are what I would call basic "common knowledge" when it comes to vehicle servicing and repairs, such as, how to tighten wheel nuts or how not to mistreat your AWD system. So many people just don't understand the basics.

[sokoloff]

What  The entire process with negotiating price is totally strange to me.
In place where I live, the cars have their prices on stickers like anything else - milk or bread in grocery or washing machine in electronics store.
I can open car brand website, configure the vehicle with desired options, print this configuration with calculated price and bring it to the dealer - I receive it and the price is final.

Well, there are window stickers and prices here, too, but I’ve never paid anywhere close to the sticker price on the two new cars I’ve bought in my life. So, if you want to make it easy and don’t care how much you pay, you can surely buy a car like it just has a price and you pay that or don’t get the car. You’ll also likely pay thousands more than I would for the same end result.

[Brumby]

What  The entire process with negotiating price is totally strange to me.
In place where I live, the cars have their prices on stickers like anything else - milk or bread in grocery or washing machine in electronics store.
I can open car brand website, configure the vehicle with desired options, print this configuration with calculated price and bring it to the dealer - I receive it and the price is final.

Well, there are window stickers and prices here, too, but I’ve never paid anywhere close to the sticker price on the two new cars I’ve bought in my life. So, if you want to make it easy and don’t care how much you pay, you can surely buy a car like it just has a price and you pay that or don’t get the car. You’ll also likely pay thousands more than I would for the same end result.

This is where cultural differences can play a part.  If you come from an environment where haggling is an alien concept, then trying to do so will be rather offensive.  Alternatively, if you come from an environment where it is expected - and you don't - then the vendor may feel guilty and give you something extra.  (I saw this in a video I watched last night).  In Australia, it's not all that common in formal retail settings - but for big ticket items, it is not unexpected.

When criticising people on taking or not taking certain approaches in various situations, we must be careful to consider such differences.

[Halcyon]

This is where cultural differences can play a part.  If you come from an environment where haggling is an alien concept, then trying to do so will be rather offensive.  Alternatively, if you come from an environment where it is expected - and you don't - then the vendor may feel guilty and give you something extra.  (I saw this in a video I watched last night).  In Australia, it's not all that common in formal retail settings - but for big ticket items, it is not unexpected.

When criticising people on taking or not taking certain approaches in various situations, we must be careful to consider such differences.

Absolutely. For example "tipping" in Australia isn't all that common (or expected). The most common place to tip someone is at a restaurant, but by that stage, you're probably well "lubricated" and don't mind anyway.

I've never tipped anyone at a hotel or similar, nor have I felt the need to.

[sokoloff]

What  The entire process with negotiating price is totally strange to me.
In place where I live, the cars have their prices on stickers like anything else - milk or bread in grocery or washing machine in electronics store.
I can open car brand website, configure the vehicle with desired options, print this configuration with calculated price and bring it to the dealer - I receive it and the price is final.

Well, there are window stickers and prices here, too, but I’ve never paid anywhere close to the sticker price on the two new cars I’ve bought in my life. So, if you want to make it easy and don’t care how much you pay, you can surely buy a car like it just has a price and you pay that or don’t get the car. You’ll also likely pay thousands more than I would for the same end result.

This is where cultural differences can play a part.  If you come from an environment where haggling is an alien concept, then trying to do so will be rather offensive.  Alternatively, if you come from an environment where it is expected - and you don't - then the vendor may feel guilty and give you something extra.  (I saw this in a video I watched last night).  In Australia, it's not all that common in formal retail settings - but for big ticket items, it is not unexpected.

When criticising people on taking or not taking certain approaches in various situations, we must be careful to consider such differences.

I don't believe I levied criticism in the text above.

[james_s]

Makes me glad I've always bought used cars from private sellers. Show up, take it for a spin, poke around, if I like I negotiate a price, hand over a wad of cash and drive away. I'd rather have an older car and spend some time tinkering and fixing it up any day over paying a huge depreciation hit.

[Cthulhoid]

In most States, there are laws against a car manufacturer selling directly to consumers. To buy a car, you must go through a franchised dealer. One might think that there is some value-add to that, in the sense that the salesperson knows everything about the products, but that's not true.

If there were any benefit to using a third-party dealer rather than buying from the manufacturer, the government wouldn't be sending men with guns to stop manufacturers from selling direct.

[Brumby]

What  The entire process with negotiating price is totally strange to me.
In place where I live, the cars have their prices on stickers like anything else - milk or bread in grocery or washing machine in electronics store.
I can open car brand website, configure the vehicle with desired options, print this configuration with calculated price and bring it to the dealer - I receive it and the price is final.

Well, there are window stickers and prices here, too, but I’ve never paid anywhere close to the sticker price on the two new cars I’ve bought in my life. So, if you want to make it easy and don’t care how much you pay, you can surely buy a car like it just has a price and you pay that or don’t get the car. You’ll also likely pay thousands more than I would for the same end result.

This is where cultural differences can play a part.  If you come from an environment where haggling is an alien concept, then trying to do so will be rather offensive.  Alternatively, if you come from an environment where it is expected - and you don't - then the vendor may feel guilty and give you something extra.  (I saw this in a video I watched last night).  In Australia, it's not all that common in formal retail settings - but for big ticket items, it is not unexpected.

When criticising people on taking or not taking certain approaches in various situations, we must be careful to consider such differences.

I don't believe I levied criticism in the text above.

I didn't mean to infer a negative attitude.

Perhaps I should have said:  "When commenting on people taking or not taking certain approaches in various situations, we must be careful to consider such differences."

[Rick Law]

...
Different situation is used car dealers - they are 99% idiots and crooks and I would never buy a car there. The prices (they are on stickers) are usually like +20% compared to cars sold by individuals.
There might be involved some process similar to that described in John Cadogans videos, but used car dealers here are for people who are absolutely clueless about cars.

But the price negotiating process in new car dealers shocks me.

re: used car buying from individual vs dealer...

One issue with used car here in the USA is the Title.  This is the legal paper issued by the State that you own the vehicle and Title is required to register the vehicle.  In the USA, car registration is handled by the States and each has its own laws.  If one search the web, there are plenty of examples of used car purchaser having trouble registering the vehicle after buying the car - because of issues with the Title.  Most are innocent things, but some are less innocent.  Worst case scenario is when the buyer and seller are in different States there-by two different sets of rules.

Title-issues could be because of prior owner with a marriage-name-change, lien not properly cleared, typos, signed at the wrong spot...  Imagine trying to call the seller for her marriage certificate and proof of change-of-name.  (One can do a formal/legal name change in the USA, but one doesn't have to...)  Worst case is of course a stolen car with a fake title.  Stolen car can even get a "real" Title by various known tricks that you can find on the web - Department of Motor Vehicle guys are not known to walk out to the parking lot to carefully check the vehicle's VIN against the paper work.

In the USA, it is common for individual sellers to park the car at a high-traffic area with a FOR-SALE sign and a phone number. A shopping mall by a major road is a typical spot.  It therefore seemed natural to meet the seller there instead of meeting the seller at his/her home.  Even if you first discover a car in the eBay listing, it would not be suspicious when the seller say "my car is typically parked at XYZ mall, why don't we meet there."

The risk of title-issues is less when purchased from a dealer instead of an individual.  At least, when an issue popped up with the paper work, there is a business there for the buyer to go back to and follow up.  When purchased from an individual, if you need to look for the seller, you could find "no one live here by that name" and the phone number...well, it was a pre-paid phone disposed after the sale.  Of course it would be pointless to go back to the damn mall where you first saw the car, spoke to the seller who seemed so nice...

[Brumby]

In NSW at least, there is no formal "title" to a vehicle, unless you have an original receipt for the sale of the vehicle (which is not common for second-hand vehicles).  The registration papers are used as a defacto - but they technically do not represent any title of ownership - just the right for a particular vehicle to travel on public roads.  The name & address on the rego papers is simply somewhere to send any correspondence.

[rjp]

The registration papers need a transfer of ownership with signed documents from the previous owner if it changes, so it pretty much is a title.

As for the topic, Australia is expensive, everything is expensive, you get used to beating down all the costs in your life as best as you can but its mostly about being comfy middle class and not caring about things much beyond that.

Bad luck if your not on middle class money.

Car dealers are notorious for being sneaky, it is best to assume they are trying to rip you off and haggle hard.

[Brumby]

The registration papers need a transfer of ownership with signed documents from the previous owner if it changes, so it pretty much is a title.

My understanding is that this is a transfer of registration.  It is not a transfer of title - and is no guarantee of title.

Someone may have purchased a vehicle on finance and may sell you the car - but you can bet your boots the finance company will have recorded their interest on the Register of Encumbered Vehicles.  If you don't do a REVS check and you pay over the money - then find the vendor has done a runner, the finance company will come and repossess it - even if you have the registration transferred properly.

Ergo, registration is not title ... in NSW at least.

[coppice]

In NSW at least, there is no formal "title" to a vehicle...

Formal title? You mean like "The Noble M600"?

[Rerouter]

Title as in receipt of ownership, e.g. a deed to a house, Something that shows you own it no matter who pays the land tax, or the council rates,

E.g. I own the registration of my car, My mother is primary user of the car for the past 4 years, Its referred to as my car, but in a defacto sense she would be the owner,

Or 2 years ago I bought a trailer off someone from another state, And I let the registration lapse because It was for use on private land, Technically he is the last owner the government would be aware of, so If he insisted, he could probably have it reclaimed,

[coppice]

Title as in receipt of ownership, e.g. a deed to a house, Something that shows you own it no matter who pays the land tax, or the council rates,

E.g. I own the registration of my car, My mother is primary user of the car for the past 4 years, Its referred to as my car, but in a defacto sense she would be the owner,

Or 2 years ago I bought a trailer off someone from another state, And I let the registration lapse because It was for use on private land, Technically he is the last owner the government would be aware of, so If he insisted, he could probably have it reclaimed,

Is registration tied to ownership in Australia? Does that mean a leased car is registered by the lease holder, and a company provided car is registered by the company which owns it? I'm more used to a car being registered by its keeper.

[Circlotron]

First and only new car I bought in 1985. After all the usual paperwork was done, the salesman asked if I would like to have this extra-cost rustproofing done. (Salt is not used on roads there in Australia). I asked him would the car rust in the first five years if I didn't have it done? If it would then I didn't want the car. If it wouldn't then I didn't want the rustproofing. He changed the subject...

[Brumby]

Is registration tied to ownership in Australia?

I can only speak from what I know about NSW - but no.  The rego papers are treated like a title - but they don't hold any legal status like the deed to a property.  It's become so much a defacto title that I think the majority of car owners would be surprised if they knew the facts.

Does that mean a leased car is registered by the lease holder, and a company provided car is registered by the company which owns it? I'm more used to a car being registered by its keeper.

As far as I understand, you can have one person (or other legal entity) have the right of ownership and a completely different person (or other legal entity) appear on the registration papers.  The former can modify, sell or even scrap the car.  The latter gets the notices, such as registration renewals and camera captured violations.

However, the driver (who could be a third person) is responsible for the vehicle being roadworthy and registered when they take it out onto public roads - and if anything isn't right, they will get the ticket for it, just as they would get a ticket for speeding.

[Halcyon]

Title as in receipt of ownership, e.g. a deed to a house, Something that shows you own it no matter who pays the land tax, or the council rates,

E.g. I own the registration of my car, My mother is primary user of the car for the past 4 years, Its referred to as my car, but in a defacto sense she would be the owner,

Or 2 years ago I bought a trailer off someone from another state, And I let the registration lapse because It was for use on private land, Technically he is the last owner the government would be aware of, so If he insisted, he could probably have it reclaimed,

Is registration tied to ownership in Australia? Does that mean a leased car is registered by the lease holder, and a company provided car is registered by the company which owns it? I'm more used to a car being registered by its keeper.

That's correct. The registered owner is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. You cannot sell the vehicle without the consent of the registered owner. In the case of a lease car, you are still the registered owner, but there is a "security" recorded against the vehicle. If you're driving a company vehicle, the registered owner is usually the company. Anyone can own/register a vehicle (whether you hold a driving licence or not). If a vehicle is infringed and the driver is not present, the ticket goes to the registered owner, it's up to them to nominate who was driving, if they can't/won't, there are additional penalties and they wear the original ticket.

[razberik]

I watched other Cadogans videos.
There might be some useful information, however, they are told in monstrous complicated language with so much time-wasting pad that I consider his videos waste of time.
Other content creators are more informative.

He cannot even say "Hello" in less than 20 words.

[stevelup]

But the price negotiating process in new car dealers shocks me.

It's entirely normal here in the UK to be able to get 8-10% off even premium brands such as BMW. And that 10% is a considerable amount of money on a £50k car.

I'm the opposite - it amazes me when people -don't- haggle. It's effectively just burning money.

[Bassman59]

I'm not a fan of car sales people either. I very much prefer to buy a car directly from someone else. When I go look for a car my price is fixed. If I don't get it for the price I want I won't buy it and wait for another good deal to come up.

@Bassman59: but how about non-branded car sellers and garages? Or don't they exist?

In most states, new cars are only available for purchase through a branded, franchised dealer, for the reason I mentioned. Some states allow new-car "brokers" which arrange sales, but ultimately the purchase is made from a franchised dealer.

To be clear: the franchised dealer displays the vehicle manufacturer's brand name and the idea is to make the customer think that the Ford Motor Company controls the business. But that's not true. The franchise is an independent business, a middleman, who has agreements with the manufacturers to advertise and sell the cars.

It is almost impossible for a manufacturer to pull the franchise from a bad dealer, even one which gets a shit-ton of complaints.

Used vehicles are a different story. A franchised dealer will often have used cars for sale, even of other brands. But most used cars are sold through independent used-car dealers or private-party (person-to-person) sales.

[Bassman59]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I can drive to California or New Mexico and buy a new car and register it in Arizona without any problems.

[coppice]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I can drive to California or New Mexico and buy a new car and register it in Arizona without any problems.

What happens with warranty claims and servicing when you buy from a distant dealer?

[stevelup]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

[Bassman59]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I can drive to California or New Mexico and buy a new car and register it in Arizona without any problems.

What happens with warranty claims and servicing when you buy from a distant dealer?

Any franchised dealer will take care of warranty claims, regardless of where you purchased the car. After all, for warranty work the dealer's service department is reimbursed by the factory. The warranty is issued by the manufacturer.

As for regular service (oil changes, what-not) and out-of-warranty repairs, any dealer will do the work and charge you for it.

It's no different from buying a new car in New Jersey and a year later moving to Arizona and then needing warranty work or regular service or repairs.

Edit to add: all of the dealers push extended warranties. Those aren't issued or backed by the manufacturer, and they're not issued by the dealer. They are third-party deals. Those extended warranties are to be avoided. There is no guarantee that if you move out of state that they will be handled, and the issuers of those warranties are notorious for doing everything possible to avoid paying claims.

[coppice]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

Car warranties in the UK have always been provided by the manufacturers, but it used to be hard to get warranty work done unless you went to the dealer you bought the car from. There can be a big difference between what is supposed to happen and what does.

[Halcyon]

EDIT: I just read Bassman59's comments about territories. They don't exist in Australia. You can go to any dealer in Australia and buy a car as long as you have it registered and it passes roadworthy requirements in the state you live in.

What I mean by "territories" are the agreements among the car dealers to divide up geographical regions and not compete against each other. The idea is to make it inconvenient for a consumer to go to another dealer of the same brand. "Aren't their laws against that?" Sure .... written by the same people who require franchised dealers instead of direct manufacturer-to-customer sales.

I live in Arizona. There is nothing stopping me from saying, "I hate all of the dealers in Tucson, so I'll drive 100 miles north to Tempe or 120 miles north to Phoenix and buy a car." It's a royal pain in the ass, and oh yeah, the dealers who own franchises in Tucson also own the franchises in Phoenix ...

I understand. As I said, they don't exist. It's not uncommon to have competing dealers next door to each other.

[sokoloff]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

Car warranties in the UK have always been provided by the manufacturers, but it used to be hard to get warranty work done unless you went to the dealer you bought the car from. There can be a big difference between what is supposed to happen and what does.

That's odd. Most of the profit of the dealership is made in the service bays, not on the showroom floor.
Warranty work is done by the dealer and reimbursed (at a profit) by the manufacturer. It would be odd for a dealer to turn down that money and I've never experienced a difference (in the US) between warranty work at the selling dealer and at another dealership.

[coppice]

The warranty is provided by BMW North America - not the individual dealers.

Car warranties in the UK have always been provided by the manufacturers, but it used to be hard to get warranty work done unless you went to the dealer you bought the car from. There can be a big difference between what is supposed to happen and what does.

That's odd. Most of the profit of the dealership is made in the service bays, not on the showroom floor.
Warranty work is done by the dealer and reimbursed (at a profit) by the manufacturer. It would be odd for a dealer to turn down that money and I've never experienced a difference (in the US) between warranty work at the selling dealer and at another dealership.

Historically car prices have been really high in the UK. So much so that the Japanese car makers used to refer to the UK as Treasure Island. There might have been a lot more money in selling a car in the UK versus the US.

[TerraHertz]

At the extreme informal end of the spectrum, no, it's easy. Here's an old car I just bought for $150. It's similar to my old car, it's just out of rego and will never be registered again (due to rust.) The intention is to strip it for spare parts for my car.
It was originally going to be free, but the owner had to fit new tires and brake pads in the last months of its active life. So the $150 is for those.
The entire deal was, he drove it here (on its last day of rego and insurance), I handed him the cash, then drove him home in my car. Done.

Actually with a little rust repair it would be registerable. But I' not going to bother.
One thing I need is a replacement interior heater. Quoted nearly $400 to buy. So just for that it's worth it.

[hneve]

I see it is a old thread but it is relevant for my situation and maybe someone will respond me based on their experience.

So, I want to buy a new car but I can't find anything suitable in Australia. I am looking for more than 6 months. But I found a lot in USA. I thought of shipping but I know how hard it is. Can someone give me any tips? Maybe somebody ordered cars from the USA.

[coppice]

I see it is a old thread but it is relevant for my situation and maybe someone will respond me based on their experience.

So, I want to buy a new car but I can't find anything suitable in Australia. I am looking for more than 6 months. But I found a lot in USA. I thought of shipping but I know how hard it is. Can someone give me any tips? Maybe somebody ordered cars from the USA.

Are you OK with a left hand drive car in Australia?

[Halcyon]

I am not sure if I understand him. Is it really difficult to buy a new car in Australia? He calls cardealer "your enemy". What is the problem with walking away from that specific dealer to another dealer?
Methods he describes are applicable to buying pretty much anything. If I am not happy with some seller I go to another.

Also, he criticizes pretty much every car brand from around the world. The only makers he is OK is perhaps KIA, Hyundai and Mazda. Absolutely everything other is a crap.

Actually buying a car is not difficult. Anyone can walk into a car dealer, fill out some paperwork and you have a car. The point John makes is that car dealers will often try to screw you, if not on price, make other false representations about a vehicle, just to get you to buy it. Their job is to get a much of your money as possible and a lot of them use high-pressure tactics to do so. Buying a car is a large investment for most people, so you really need to go armed with all the information you need to make a sensible purchase (not one that is driven by emotion).

John's videos are typically quite good, and largely based on facts. However he does let his personal biases creep in every now and again. He's absolutely right, when it comes to Chinese cars (Chery, BYD, Great Wall, MG etc...), they are absolute junk and to be avoided. But the same can also be said for brands/models all over the world. Cars are a bit like computers, there is no one "right" car, it depends on individual circumstances and needs. For whatever reason, John has some kind of soft spot for Subaru and tends to gloss over their weak spots. I've driven several modern Subaru models recently and my opinion of them is that they have average build quality, they are quite tinny, relatively powerless and the "smart" technology is bloody annoying to drive with. Mechanically, they might be a solid purchase, but several models are known for their "electrical gremlins" (notice how many Forester's, Outback's and Impreza's have faulty tail lights, for example -- Once you see it, you can't un-see it!).

Anecdotally, I've noticed a huge uptake of Subaru's mostly by those who are in the older generations. All around Sydney and indeed other parts of Australia, if there is a queue of traffic in the right-hand lane, typically there is a Subaru driver at the front holding everyone up.

EDIT: I just realised this is an old thread that I commented on earlier. I still maintain my comments above.

[brucehoult]

I see it is a old thread but it is relevant for my situation and maybe someone will respond me based on their experience.

So, I want to buy a new car but I can't find anything suitable in Australia. I am looking for more than 6 months. But I found a lot in USA. I thought of shipping but I know how hard it is. Can someone give me any tips? Maybe somebody ordered cars from the USA.

I don't know the exact facts for Australia, but my understanding is that they still make it very difficult to privately import a car, in order to protect their now non-existent car manufacturing industry. Much the same reason that bananas in Australia (where they are grown) cost about three times more than in NZ (where they are imported).

A friend did just take his NZ car to Australia when he moved there. I believe that you must have already owned it for several years, and he told me that you can do this once in your life.

Here in NZ, things were hugely loosened up in the early or mid 90s and individuals started flying to Japan, buying 2 or 3 or 4 used cars three to five years old, bring them to NZ, and sell all but one at a good profit. Then used car dealers started to do it in bulk. In the last 30 years the majority of "new to NZ" cars sold are used imports from Japan. I remember one of the first models seen in large numbers used was the 1991 (?) Nissan Primera. My parents had one. Then used Legacy / Impreza/ Forester / WRX became HUGE. Subaru in NZ had something like 3% of the new car market, but suddenly they had maybe I don't know 20% or 30% of the "new to NZ" market. Also, as I recall, Subaru and Mazda very quickly announced they would be glad to service and support used imports (they after all make most of the money on any car from servicing over its lifetime), while some other brands were very much "If you didn't buy it from us in NZ then we won't service it  .. and for sure can't guarantee we have spare parts".

[brucehoult]

I've driven several modern Subaru models recently and my opinion of them is that they have average build quality, they are quite tinny, relatively powerless and the "smart" technology is bloody annoying to drive with. Mechanically, they might be a solid purchase, but several models are known for their "electrical gremlins" (notice how many Forester's, Outback's and Impreza's have faulty tail lights, for example -- Once you see it, you can't un-see it!).

Hmm ... I've never noticed faulty tail lights on Subarus ... certainly not on any of mine. I also haven't driven or looked at new ones. I bought a 1995 Legacy 250T (touring wagon, 2.5 na auto) in 2001 with 98k km and on sold it at 250k km in 2012 to someone who I know used it until 350k despite them taking it for a swim in the ocean at around 280k. The replacement (bought in 2012) was a 1997 Grandwagon (early Outback) in the same green Foresters of that generation came in, and with the same 2x5 manual gearbox, but 2.5 engine. I used that until I moved to the USA in 2019 and sold it to my cousin who used it trouble-free until someone rear-ended him at which point it was 25 years old.  In the USA in 2019 I bought a 2017 Outback Touring, which I only owned for 11 months as I returned to NZ when COVID started. Back in NZ, on the first day of Level 3 Lockdown being reduced to Level 2 (mid May 2020) I took a rental car to another city (previously illegal) and bought a 2008 Outback 2.5XT "Eyesight" with 87k km. That's a special model issued in recognition of Subaru's 50th anniversary, with only 2000 made: 265 HP turbo engine (tuned for low end torque, with the peak at 2400 RPM), various STI bits, and -- they claim it was the first car in the world -- stereo camera-based adaptive cruise control, lane departure warning, pre-collision braking, etc. I've owned it since, and have no plans to ever sell it.

https://www.subaru.co.jp/news/archives/08_04_06/08_05_08_02.html

So ... at least the older Subarus are great. They are not the most exciting cars in any respect (well, the turbo ones are quick) but what I can say is unusual about them is they don't ANNOY me in any respect. They simply get the job done without fuss, with as good reliability as anything else, and have outstanding safety ratings.

[jonovid]

what about the dealers aftermarket service?
40 years ago most cars were less complicated and manufactured locally in Australia so aftermarket service was less important.
you could fix it yourself if you had the knowledge and a lot of us did do our own grease and oil change at the time.
but today's complicated new cars are so very dependent on ongoing dealers aftermarket diagnostic service.
a liability if any of it fails.

[victorb]

I'm from Australia too and was looking for a car recently. I also couldn't find what I wanted here, but not because it's impossible; the local options just didn't appeal to me. Shipping from the USA seemed tricky, especially because they have left-hand drive cars, which can be a hassle here. Instead, I shipped my car from the UK.

The cost wasn't as bad as I thought. I used a guide from https://www.a1autotransport.com/what-does-it-cost-to-ship-a-car-to-australia/ to understand the expenses and process. It said that shipping costs usually range from $2,100 to $4,025 USD, but older cars need a special license to import. The site helped me get a handle on the costs and requirements. In the end, I paid around $3,500 USD to ship my car.

[Halcyon]

I've driven several modern Subaru models recently and my opinion of them is that they have average build quality, they are quite tinny, relatively powerless and the "smart" technology is bloody annoying to drive with. Mechanically, they might be a solid purchase, but several models are known for their "electrical gremlins" (notice how many Forester's, Outback's and Impreza's have faulty tail lights, for example -- Once you see it, you can't un-see it!).

Hmm ... I've never noticed faulty tail lights on Subarus ... certainly not on any of mine. I also haven't driven or looked at new ones.

It's the new(er) ones that have the issue. Less so with very new ones with LED tail lights (maybe they finally solved the issue?). Subarus definitely aren't what they used to be.

The last Outback I drove had that infuriating EyeSight system. Even driving normally would trigger it (and I'm a defensive driver). I ended up disabling it each time I got in the car, as it was safer with that crap off. It was a "song and dance" I've had to do with a handful of cars, pressing various buttons before you even release the park brake, to disable things like auto stop/start which just re-enable themselves next time you start the vehicle.

The issues with EyeSight aside, it's something I've noticed with a lot of modern cars: Distractions. All kinds of bings and bongs, you spend half the time wondering what the hell a particular noise means rather than focussing fully on the road. A while ago I drove a Toyota C-HR and every few minutes it would "ding". For days I had no idea what the hell it was until I worked out that it was a notification every time you entered or left a school zone (where a 40km/hr speed limit applies). I ended up drilling down various menus and turning all that shit off. It didn't completely silence the car, but it reduced the number of distractions significantly. The only warnings I ever want to see or hear in a car are: If there is something wrong with the vehicle or if a crash is imminent.

[brucehoult]

The last Outback I drove had that infuriating iSight system. Even driving normally would trigger it (and I'm a defensive driver). I ended up disabling it each time I got in the car, as it was safer with that crap off. It was a "song and dance" I've had to do with a handful of cars, pressing various buttons before you even release the park brake, to disable things like auto stop/start which just re-enable themselves next time you start the vehicle.

I don't know what's infuriating about it. Other than the lane departure warning -- which in my car has a dedicated overhead button to turn it off (which is permanent, not every time you start it) -- EyeSight does nothing unless you enable cruise control -- or are about to crash into something. If you use cruise control in an EyeSight-equipped car then it works exactly the same as any other car if there is no one else around, but if you catch up to someone then it decreases your speed to match theirs rather then running straight up their tail-pipe. At least if the closing speed is low enough. If you're doing 80 mph and they're doing 30 (or stopped) then detection may be too late and all it can do is soften the crash. It's a driver aid, not "You can go to sleep now".

I've never had a Subaru with auto engine stop/start. My current 2008 certainly doesn't, and the 2017 I had in the USA didn't either. I guess that's more recent. Done right, it should be unobtrusive. It wasn't in the rental Corolla I had last week :-(  But in the 2011 rental Prius I currently have engine stop/start is basically undetectable except by watching the system display on the dash. Of course in the Prius is helps that it moves off under electric power instantly and then cranks up the engine later if needed.

[Circlotron]

All this driver assist stuff that newer cars seem to have, I wonder if you had an accident and they were turned off, could your insurance company use this as an excuse to try and wriggle out of covering you? Likely they could scan the main computer to check the state of a multitude of things at the time of the accident.

[brucehoult]

All this driver assist stuff that newer cars seem to have, I wonder if you had an accident and they were turned off, could your insurance company use this as an excuse to try and wriggle out of covering you? Likely they could scan the main computer to check the state of a multitude of things at the time of the accident.

If you are at fault in the crash then you are at fault even if you have driver aids turned on. Until such time as they remove the steering wheel and pedals entirely, at least.

If you are not at fault in the crash then driver aids on or off also obviously do not affect that.

[Halcyon]

The last Outback I drove had that infuriating iSight system. Even driving normally would trigger it (and I'm a defensive driver). I ended up disabling it each time I got in the car, as it was safer with that crap off. It was a "song and dance" I've had to do with a handful of cars, pressing various buttons before you even release the park brake, to disable things like auto stop/start which just re-enable themselves next time you start the vehicle.

EyeSight does nothing unless you enable cruise control -- or are about to crash into something. If you use cruise control in an EyeSight-equipped car then it works exactly the same as any other car if there is no one else around, but if you catch up to someone then it decreases your speed to match theirs rather then running straight up their tail-pipe. At least if the closing speed is low enough. If you're doing 80 mph and they're doing 30 (or stopped) then detection may be too late and all it can do is soften the crash. It's a driver aid, not "You can go to sleep now".

That's the issue, the system randomly thought I was going to crash into a vehicle in front, when I was already on the brake and had plenty of distance to stop. It's almost like the system was too slow to respond to all the inputs and went into panic mode. Perhaps the newer version is better, but I couldn't drive with it on. Correct me if I'm wrong but Subaru relied on a vision system to determine speed and distance from vehicle in front, as opposed to, radar and/or lidar in other vehicles.

I'm always vigilant when driving, probably more-so than 95% of people on the road. I was also a police driver trainer in my past job so I'm not the kind of driver to be too close to the vehicle in front, or slow to respond in the event of a sudden application of brakes by vehicles ahead of me.

All this driver assist stuff that newer cars seem to have, I wonder if you had an accident and they were turned off, could your insurance company use this as an excuse to try and wriggle out of covering you? Likely they could scan the main computer to check the state of a multitude of things at the time of the accident.

If you are at fault in the crash then you are at fault even if you have driver aids turned on. Until such time as they remove the steering wheel and pedals entirely, at least.

If you are not at fault in the crash then driver aids on or off also obviously do not affect that.

Correct. It's not a defence (by either party) to either refuse a claim because you turned off driver aids, or you assert you're not at fault because the driver aids didn't stop your vehicle from hitting another.*

And yes, the ECU among other systems in almost all modern cars will record this kind of data, plus very granular data about things like the throttle/accelerator pedal position, steering wheel position, whether your hands were on the wheel or not, vehicle dynamics and forces, speed, location, the list goes on... In most claims however they aren't going to pay someone to extract that data from your vehicle. If there someone was seriously injured or killed, or there is a suspicion of a fraudulent claim, then they (or the police) probably will.

EDIT: * At least not at the time of writing, however this is why you always need to read the contract/PDS that came with your policy. Some insurers are more stringent than others with what you can and can't do with your own vehicle. The insurer typically would need to prove that you either disobeyed the road rules, operated a vehicle in an unsafe/unroadworthy condition, or you were acting in a negligent/dangerous manner (none of which include disabling driver aids).