Author Topic: is this video real or fake?  (Read 9396 times)

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Offline haxby

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is this video real or fake?
« on: June 13, 2011, 02:28:51 pm »

How do they do it?


 

Offline RCMR

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 03:28:36 pm »
Definitely fake.

Clues:

1. the balls cast no shadow on the inside wall of the carboard box from whence they errupt.

2. the "circuit board" is clearly not a shape that *anyone* would design to fit inside a sphere.

3. there's just no way to achieve that effect with the technology presented in the video.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 03:51:20 pm »


3. there's just no way to achieve that effect with the technology presented in the video.


if you can call the slight shows of "technology" technology. Yes I agree its a fake, they throw loads of stuff in there (that big thing with electromagnets - what was that for ?) and then don't show how it works.
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Offline sacherjj

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 12:39:05 am »
The problem with magnets is this: Forces are proportional to the inverse square of the distance.  This means that as you get closer, the forces get stronger exponentially.

In other words, if you have enough force to suck a ball up from the box, it will not stop until it is at the magnet.  The only way it won't is to somehow create a force in the ball that will repel itself from the large magnet.  The problem there is an electromagnet will still have poles.  So instead of repelling, it would rotate the ball 180 degrees and accelerate to the electromagnet.

Now had they put the electromagnet on the ground and pushed the balls up, it would be more believable.  As there you have a situation where the force of the magnet is pushing the ball up until it is at a distance that the magnetic force equals the force of gravity.  When flipped, the force of gravity is a constant and the force on the magnet keeps increasing.  There is nothing there that would create the equilibrium we are "witnessing".
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 12:46:28 am by sacherjj »
 

Offline Sionyn

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 02:16:41 am »
inverse square indeed

busted

cgi
eecs guy
 

Offline FreeThinker

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 04:58:39 am »
It's Magic, everybody knows that. If they told you how it worked then it wouldn't be magic ( Bad Penn and Teller! ). Just believe  :D
Machines were mice and Men were lions once upon a time, but now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.
MOONDOG
 

Offline Simon

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 05:11:38 am »
It's Magic, everybody knows that. If they told you how it worked then it wouldn't be magic ( Bad Penn and Teller! ). Just believe  :D

some of us are not religious  8)
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Offline sacherjj

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 05:27:30 am »
It's Magic, everybody knows that. If they told you how it worked then it wouldn't be magic ( Bad Penn and Teller! ). Just believe  :D

some of us are not religious  8)

Or worship at the altar of facts.
 

Offline apex

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 05:29:38 am »
Well, I think there's the slight possibility this isn't a fake.

I think the big board they soldered together is just part of the controller for everything.
The big magnet is turned on all the time.
All the balls have smaller boards in them, like the ones in 0:53.
They consist (mainly) of a electromagnet and some circuitry around it.
Think about what might happen, if it is a electromagnet than can be switched on and off by sending a signal.
If you use camera tracking on the balls, you could disable them, if they get to high.
They get non-magnetic and fall to the ground.
If they are to low, you just reenable the magnet and they go up again.

The reason why the ball don't just form a big ball under the magnet is, because they all run on the same frequency.
If you turn off one ball, all balls turn off.
With this, not all balls can reach the same height.

What do you think of this?

apex
 

Offline Simon

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 05:42:39 am »
It's Magic, everybody knows that. If they told you how it worked then it wouldn't be magic ( Bad Penn and Teller! ). Just believe  :D

some of us are not religious  8)

Or worship at the altar of facts.

Well the next person to ask me my religeon will get told: freedom of speech. and yes that also goes for those stupid forms the council gives you in the mane of equality
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Offline sacherjj

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 06:29:26 am »
Well, I think there's the slight possibility this isn't a fake.

I think the big board they soldered together is just part of the controller for everything.
The big magnet is turned on all the time.
All the balls have smaller boards in them, like the ones in 0:53.
They consist (mainly) of a electromagnet and some circuitry around it.
Think about what might happen, if it is a electromagnet than can be switched on and off by sending a signal.
If you use camera tracking on the balls, you could disable them, if they get to high.
They get non-magnetic and fall to the ground.
If they are to low, you just reenable the magnet and they go up again.

The reason why the ball don't just form a big ball under the magnet is, because they all run on the same frequency.
If you turn off one ball, all balls turn off.
With this, not all balls can reach the same height.

What do you think of this?

I still don't buy it.  It may be possible to hover one ball using that method, but they are spread in a pattern that makes the balls at top get 40 times the magnetic flux as those hovering at the bottom.  I don't assume that the magnetic forces in each ball are that much "out of spec". 

With that much iron and those large of inductors, I doubt that you could modulate the magnetic flux all that fast anyway.  Inductors inhibit the change of current through a conductor.  Magnetic field is created by the flow of current through a conductor.  So magnetic flux won't change rapidly.

I'd love to be proved wrong and see this in person, but all me experience with electromagnets just don't make this jive.  I think the soldering on the boards were red herrings to make people "believe."
 

Offline Simon

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 06:37:46 am »
I must admit i saw a lot of doing with no doing in that video if you get my meaning
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Offline Sionyn

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 06:42:29 am »
exactly with the modulation of the flux

and simons point
were is the evidence

its cgi all-right the angle of the box shadow.. should have shown the balls shadow
that video is screaming fake if you ask me.
eecs guy
 

Offline ndictu

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 07:08:44 am »
Since all the physics reasons have already been discussed, just one little thing. 1:22 video, in which they make something really amazing and unique. And they show it for only about 9 seconds total, max 3 seconds continuous.

Imagine you build that, why would you do that? I would make hour long video of that thing. But of course they can't, it takes huge amount of effort doing the CGI and they couldn't be bothered to make more.
 

Offline sacherjj

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2011, 07:26:19 am »
Since all the physics reasons have already been discussed, just one little thing. 1:22 video, in which they make something really amazing and unique. And they show it for only about 9 seconds total, max 3 seconds continuous.

Imagine you build that, why would you do that? I would make hour long video of that thing. But of course they can't, it takes huge amount of effort doing the CGI and they couldn't be bothered to make more.

Yep, and as someone who has done some 3D animation and "flocking" style algorithms, they behavior really feels like animated flocking with given parameters.  Everything is a little too perfect.
 

Offline st1

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2011, 07:34:56 am »
My moneys on C4D + After effects from the shader But it could be any 3D package.

Once you first frame set up and the tracking all fixed and you got your particle physics saved, You need to render the actual sequence (layer by layer) . Witch can be anywhere from 5 min to 20 min per layer (But it can be any value from 1 second to 100 hours for a frame of animation)
Then when you got your 25 seconds of rendered video you got to move that into After effects for color final color corrections etc.
And that means the effect is 3D.

But yeah it's not like there hiding it, You can see at 1:07 the Shader/texture there using for the balls in the 3D package (i cant make out what package it is but it looks like C4D)

Oh yeah the seller "purpyenough" doesn't exist and the item number doesn't match.
But I think it's lovely  ;)
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2011, 08:24:08 am »
It's a fake. The biggest indicator that this whole thing is a fake is their lack of electronic gears. And another thing is the girl's laptop that "supposedly" control the whole thing. Image is too static. This indicates that it's just a picture put into full view. And lastly, the too many girls.

Here is more:
1) Type in ebay item number 260750939029 (March 01 2011) should still be up.-FAIL
2) Type in "Huge ELECTRO-MAGNET" = FAIL


 

Offline sacherjj

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2011, 08:51:25 am »
And lastly, the too many girls.

Oh, no he didn't.  :)

I don't know if there was someone to pull off something crazy like this, Jeri Ellsworth would be in my list as one of the possible candidates.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2011, 09:17:46 am »
Sacherjj,

You know those commericals. They are always trying to be politically correct. But here in EEV forum we strive for the truth and tell it as it is  ;)
 

Offline westfw

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2011, 09:52:19 am »
Quote
Forces are proportional to the inverse square of the distance.
Worse than that, IIRC.  (1/d^4 for real magnets, according to wikipedia.)  Though I don't remember why.  Complications due to always having two poles involved?

Their "big electromagnet" doesn't look anything like a real big electromagnet, either.
 

Offline Zad

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2011, 11:00:47 am »
The 4th order equation is due, as you say, to there being two magnets involved, each with a square law fall-off. It might be a demo reel video for a graphic artist, or possibly some sort of attempt at a viral video.

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2011, 11:33:06 am »
Their "big electromagnet" doesn't look anything like a real big electromagnet, either.

You're right. It looks more like a table top painted black. I saw "modern marvel" one time and remember the construction of these junkyard magnet. They are huge and give off lots of heat. I remember it was flat long coils and a mixture of compounds is poured over them which acts like a heat sink bring the heat to the outside of the case. Heat is a magnet's enemy since it causes the electrons to move around defeating the purpose of electro-magnet.

Anyways, I had fun debunking this today. ;D

--edit----
I must have pissed someone of or pissed off the people involved in making the video. They are chewing me out and near the same time. I had this on for awhile and they are jump mad at me now.


Feel free to chew me out there;) I don't take anything seriously >:(
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 11:57:10 am by MrPlacid »
 

Offline Vertigo

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2011, 04:54:55 pm »
Balls are touching.

that is all.
 

Offline hannobisschoff

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2011, 01:58:04 am »
This looks pretty fake. Another reason: this looks like one of those typical "think outside the box" commercials from some business.

LIKE THIS ONE:""

It "looks Cool" but it just doesn't exist......yet.
 

Offline hannobisschoff

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2011, 02:05:23 am »
And there is something suspicious about the music. It just sounds so "advertisementish"
 

Offline Jope

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2011, 02:21:42 am »
This video is a short film from Physalia Studio:

http://www.physaliastudio.com/f5-2011.html

According to their website, they are "a motion-graphics and visual effects studio based in Barcelona."
 

Offline hannobisschoff

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Re: is this video real or fake?
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2011, 06:07:39 am »
SO that's it then? Has this video been flagged as fake?
 


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