Latest F from crApple

[station240]

TBH I have swapped motherboards out before and it just asks to be reactivated. If you've done this a couple of times you have to phone them up. You might have to bring it up in safe mode for it to fix the drivers but that's about it. Most of the time it just works now.

Even easier if you know you are replacing the motherboard, and can uninstall the old drivers/hardware in windows before swapping the physical motherboard.
Not to say there aren't issues, but safemode is a good way to resolve most driver issues.

[rdl]

I've been using an unactivated copy of Windows 7 on one machine since 2012 and I've never seen a BSOD because the activation period ran out. It just goes into what Microsoft calls "Notification" mode. According to them, your data is never endangered. Making a massive hardware change, such as switching motherboards, is a different problem entirely. I'm surprised it actually works.

[Gribo]

Here is a relevant link for such behaviour from manufacturers, at least in the US:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/ftc-warranty-voiding-language-like-nintendos-and-sonys-is-illegal/

[wraper]

Here is a relevant link for such behaviour from manufacturers, at least in the US:
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/ftc-warranty-voiding-language-like-nintendos-and-sonys-is-illegal/

IMO it's completely reasonable to void warranty for electronics if unauthorized repair was done. When I was doing authorized cellphone repairs in the past, most of stuff I've seen previously repaired by 3rd party, rarely could be called as job done with reasonable quality. And that was time when cellphones were much simpler to disassemble and repair than modern stuff with everything held by hooks and adhesives.

[Mr. Scram]

Read what I said carefully. I agree it doesn't.

What it does is it makes it more difficult. You're protecting against casual data and device theft and idiots leaving their devices on trains, not state level actors. You can't win against them.

This is why companies I've worked for have air gapped systems in the defence sector.

Like those air gapped centrifuges in Iran? Unless you're going to force people to write anything new on the system itself and have automated gun turrets to deal with anyone who tries anything else, an unwitting human with a bad idea is always going to be your worst enemy.

[Mr. Scram]

By the way, are we doing another one of these threads already? I thought we just did an Apple versus Windows versus whatever thread the other day?

[aandrew]

If Apple had a proper parts market I am almost 100% sure that Louis would happily source parts from them instead of playing the game of buying remaindered hardware off of ebay/aliexpress/dodgy sites and taking chances. He's complained long and loud about not having access to actual service manuals and genuine repair parts.

This isn't "dodgy repair shop complaining about not being able to use third-tier garbage".

I have absolutely zero issue with Apple tightening down specs. Shit hardware will fall off the bottom, but overall things are better. When they killed phones with replaced home buttons it was a problem ONLY because they took it to the extreme; Their later fix of simply refusing to use touch ID is the perfect compromise. Unverified touch sensors break the chain of trust (can't verify sensor, can't trust fingerprint).

I use Apple's hardware and am happy with it. I am *not* happy with soldered on hard drives and other lock-in methods, but making changes which MAY cause third party hardware to fail to work is not necessarily an issue. We don't know the exact mechanism for the failures yet, so I am willing to reserve judgement until we know WHY they're failing now.

[ebastler]

That's the thing, Apple used to be brilliant machines and innovative for the day. Those days are long gone. The stuff they have churned out in the last almost-twenty years is flimsy, poorly designed, junk (for the most part).

Sure. Just think about that stupid low-cost phone clone they came up with a good 10 years ago. No innovation at all, and oh, that flimsy, plasticky feel! 

Or those dreadful notebooks in their all-metal, machined-from-one-piece cases. Fortunately every single manufacturerer in the industry copied the looks, and showed Apple how to do it properly with plastics and sheet metal!

Come on, mate. You don't have to be an Apple fanboy. (I am not -- actually the only Apple product I use is my company phone.) But give them credit where credit is due, or risk to lose some credibility.

[bd139]

The funny thing is that I suspect the “good old Apple” was the old MacOS 9 and before shit. Ugh it was horrid.

[Macbeth]

The funny thing is that I suspect the “good old Apple” was the old MacOS 9 and before shit. Ugh it was horrid.

Good old Apple was the Apple ][ which was so successful it was pirated in short order. The one thing Woz didn't do was have a custom ULA that other 8 bit manufacturers did. I think Apple as a corp. still have a very bad hangup from that experience.

The worst clone I encountered was a "Microprofessor II" - Chinese of course.

I remember the original Mac back in the '80s and was impressed until I found there was no way of programming it or any command line. It was totally walled garden stuff and so useless as a computer to me. Such a shame. That experience put me off Apple products for life. 

[Halcyon]

That's the thing, Apple used to be brilliant machines and innovative for the day. Those days are long gone. The stuff they have churned out in the last almost-twenty years is flimsy, poorly designed, junk (for the most part).

Sure. Just think about that stupid low-cost phone clone they came up with a good 10 years ago. No innovation at all, and oh, that flimsy, plasticky feel! 

Or those dreadful notebooks in their all-metal, machined-from-one-piece cases. Fortunately every single manufacturerer in the industry copied the looks, and showed Apple how to do it properly with plastics and sheet metal!

Come on, mate. You don't have to be an Apple fanboy. (I am not -- actually the only Apple product I use is my company phone.) But give them credit where credit is due, or risk to lose some credibility.

Just because their devices are metal, doesn't make them good, or robust, or durable. I see plenty of bent and cracked iPhone chassis come across my desk, I see plenty of Macbooks which have fractures around the LCD hinges. Yes, they look good but that's where it ends. Servicing them is a complete bitch and my terrible old (business-grade) HP from 10+ years ago is far more durable.

[bd139]

I'll agree with you on the durability. Aluminium is a shit material to make a computer from. Here's the corner of my 15" rMBP after 5 years...



I'd rather have a plastic MacBook.

Probably should buy a new one but it's still working fine (after it got a new screen!  )

[Mr. Scram]

Sure. Just think about that stupid low-cost phone clone they came up with a good 10 years ago. No innovation at all, and oh, that flimsy, plasticky feel! 

Or those dreadful notebooks in their all-metal, machined-from-one-piece cases. Fortunately every single manufacturerer in the industry copied the looks, and showed Apple how to do it properly with plastics and sheet metal!

Come on, mate. You don't have to be an Apple fanboy. (I am not -- actually the only Apple product I use is my company phone.) But give them credit where credit is due, or risk to lose some credibility.

He does have a point, though. Apple sometimes pushes the looks so far that the functionality suffers. Metal isn't always a better material than plastic. Metal deforms where plastic springs back. Glass cracks. Hinges and mounting points are also not always engineered with a lot of room for normal wear and tear. Are one piece cases still the end-all if they flex like plastic ones? Are nice looking connectors that break and fray during regular use ideal?

I'm not going to argue that Apple builds crap, because they generally don't. They don't make very solid devices either, and regularly go too far for the sake of looks. Not unlike other manufacturers.

[amyk]

I'm not going to argue that Apple builds crap, because they generally don't. They don't make very solid devices either, and regularly go too far for the sake of looks. Not unlike other manufacturers.

For many years the Apple fanboys boasted about how Samsung's plastic-cased phones were not "premium" or whatever other marketing bullshit term, because they didn't use metal and glass, and unfortunately Samsung caved in. Now a drop that would cause what used to be little more than scratches leads to a shattered phone.

[GreyWoolfe]

Yep. Windows is pretty tetchy actually. Try booting a bitlocker encrypted machine which you have plugged into a docking station...

Actually, I do this quite regularly.  My company laptop, a Lenovo T460, sits in a docking station at home and then travels with me to a site and then back to the docking station.  Never an issue booting up, except when I forget to unplug the USB Video card for the 3rd monitor.  Sometimes it boots with it plugged in, sometimes it won't.  Both my laptop and tablet are encrypted with bitlocker.

[tszaboo]

Component level repair is dead.

In the West, maybe. Not in China. Average Chinese worker class have to work hard and save every penny for 6 months to afford an iPhoneX. They won't just toss it when it fails. They will get it fixed even if that means good bye data, good bye warranty, good bye waterproof, and they will still do that.

Reminds me of those people, who buy a 10 year old BMW 7 series, because it is so cheap. Spend almost the last cents of their pocket buying it. And when the first repair bills come in, they lose what is left, and the repair bills keep coming in. Turns out maintaining premium stuff is more expensive than other cars. What a big surprise. If you cannot afford to get your phone/car/whatever repaired, you cannot afford it period, and you need to be soft in the head to buy it.
And some people still think that a car or a phone (or adidas shoes if you are russian) is a status symbol...

[bd139]

Reminds me of those people, who buy a 10 year old BMW 7 series, because it is so cheap. Spend almost the last cents of their pocket buying it. And when the first repair bills come in, they lose what is left, and the repair bills keep coming in. Turns out maintaining premium stuff is more expensive than other cars. What a big surprise. If you cannot afford to get your phone/car/whatever repaired, you cannot afford it period, and you need to be soft in the head to buy it.
And some people still think that a car or a phone (or adidas shoes if you are russian) is a status symbol...

Absolutely spot on.  Never buy what you can't afford to fix or replace.

Honestly "Peak ROI" in the computing space is a 2-3 year old ex-business ThinkPad. Chuck an SSD in it, new battery and some more RAM and you're in business. Will last 2 years and cost bugger all in that time and have a 33% return. Due to the progression of the technology curve slowing at the moment, it's not going to be far behind state of the art. If you bust the screen, $40. If you bust the keyboard, $30. If you destroy the whole thing, $200. Also usually comes with an integrated windows license that will quite happily take windows 10 pro.

Despite defending them I'm not going to buy another Mac when I get rid of my MBP later this year. If I had nothing else to spend cash on I'd probably buy one but I could get a new DSA815 with tracking generator or a second hand Agilent unit and another T4xx Thinkpad for the price of a new MBP which I would enjoy more. Or perhaps an FT-818

[IanMacdonald]

Motor manufacturers have been doing this for a while. Previous car I had, you couldn't even change the power steering fluid tank unless it was 'initialised' with special software.
Some USA states have laws against deliberate anti-repair measures which prevent components being replaced (even with genuine articles). We need one here.

[bd139]

Yes that is thoroughly irritating. It has actually put me off buying a new car.

I have actually considered buying an older Land Rover defender as at least I can maintain that myself if need be.

[Mr. Scram]

That's what the concept of TCO was invented for, but few people understand that is the actual cost of an object. They just see the sticker price. Those are probably the same people who buy subscriptions where the first month is interestingly priced, only to get freightingly expensive the next month.

[ebastler]

Honestly "Peak ROI" in the computing space is a 2-3 year old ex-business ThinkPad. Chuck an SSD in it, new battery and some more RAM and you're in business. Will last 2 years and cost bugger all in that time and have a 33% return. Due to the progression of the technology curve slowing at the moment, it's not going to be far behind state of the art. If you bust the screen, $40. If you bust the keyboard, $30. If you destroy the whole thing, $200. Also usually comes with an integrated windows license that will quite happily take windows 10 pro.

Despite defending them I'm not going to buy another Mac when I get rid of my MBP later this year. If I had nothing else to spend cash on I'd probably buy one but I could get a new DSA815 with tracking generator or a second hand Agilent unit and another T4xx Thinkpad for the price of a new MBP which I would enjoy more. Or perhaps an FT-818

While I agree that the Thinkpads are still decent value, I think you are painting too rosy a picture of them. I'm typing this on a T450, which falls exactly into the "two to three year old" category you mention. It works, but the screen quality, touchpad usability, and battery life would probably disappoint you if you come from a MacBook. (And that's by design, not because it is worn out.)

Also, the equivalent of $200 (in Europe) will only buy you a severely run-down machine. If that's all you want to spend, expect major scratches, half the battery life, and some unpleasant surprise (bad key or touchpad or such). Also, larger companies seem to lease or depreciate computers over a three-year term in general -- so any used computer which is younger than that will likely have been retired for a reason.

[Halcyon]

[Electro Detective]

And some people still think that a car or a phone (or adidas shoes if you are russian) is a status symbol...

You can't afford what the richest pop star wears, you can't afford what the richest pop star drives, you can't afford whom the richest star sleeps with. Probably for most average people, the only thing they can afford that's the same as the richest people is their phone -- no matter how rich you are, sometimes a Vertu just doesn't work for you, and you just need an iPhone.

I never fully understand this, and I never felt I like an iPhone, and I've never owned one. But there are a LOT of people in China that definitely think not owning an iPhone is a shame.

And yes, some (though very few) Chinese university girls do sell their virginity to guys who can buy them an flashy new iPhone.

"Love you long time" deal    for a lousy iPhone ?  Talk about  -CHEAP-   

You don't want to be bringing that sort of trash home to meet mum and dad...   

[bd139]

While I agree that the Thinkpads are still decent value, I think you are painting too rosy a picture of them. I'm typing this on a T450, which falls exactly into the "two to three year old" category you mention. It works, but the screen quality, touchpad usability, and battery life would probably disappoint you if you come from a MacBook. (And that's by design, not because it is worn out.)

Also, the equivalent of $200 (in Europe) will only buy you a severely run-down machine. If that's all you want to spend, expect major scratches, half the battery life, and some unpleasant surprise (bad key or touchpad or such). Also, larger companies seem to lease or depreciate computers over a three-year term in general -- so any used computer which is younger than that will likely have been retired for a reason.

My spare machine, which I'm actually typing this on now as the mac is stacked with virtual machines, is a T430 which is far older so I'm aware of the differences. However there is little productivity difference for me if I'm honest. I do all my EDA stuff on the ThinkPad as it's more convenient.

This T430 I bought last year for £165 and has no sign of usage, is an i5 (good enough), 1440x900 screen, 89% original battery capacity and original charger. Chucked 8Gb of RAM in it and an SSD and it's a nice machine. Depends where you go looking really. Ebay is not the answer.

[ebastler]

My spare machine, which I'm actually typing this on now as the mac is stacked with virtual machines, is a T430 which is far older so I'm aware of the differences. However there is little productivity difference for me if I'm honest. I do all my EDA stuff on the ThinkPad as it's more convenient.

This T430 I bought last year for £165 and has no sign of usage, is an i5 (good enough), 1440x900 screen, 89% original battery capacity and original charger. Chucked 8Gb of RAM in it and an SSD and it's a nice machine. Depends where you go looking really. Ebay is not the answer.

OK, going two model generations further back (and well past the 2..3 year timeframe you mentioned earlier) will of course help with the purchase price. And sure, if the performance is still adequate for your application, there's nothing wrong with that.

I certainly can be "productive" on my T450 -- at least that's what I tell my boss.   But when I have to use the built-in screen for extended periods of time while travelling, I do notice that the screen on my home machine, with its higher contrast and larger viewing angle, is easier on the eyes. And in contrast to my home machine, I avoid using the T450 touchpad, and connect a mouse whenever possible.