Author Topic: Leaking AA and AAA batteries  (Read 19982 times)

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Offline cdev

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #125 on: December 18, 2018, 04:14:58 am »
Is the only solution going around, finding all battery powered equipment and removing them, storing everything without any batteries in them and removing the batteries after one is finished using them?

That really is a pain in the butt.  It seems to me that some brands of batteries used to last forever without leaking.  What happened?

 
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Offline Robaroni

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #126 on: December 18, 2018, 04:21:44 am »
I think they kept pushing the envelope as to how much you can extract from an AAA or AA battery. Kind of a race to the top scenario. Now we're struck with leaking batteries.
 
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Online IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2018, 04:30:59 am »
NiMH and NiCd leakage is extremely common

However, typical AA and AAA cells are not likely to leak.

That's the problem, they do leak and a lot. Maybe NiMH don't leak much but Alks do.

Make your mind up, please? NiMH cells don't leak much, or they leak a lot?
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Online helius

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2018, 04:44:50 am »
Make your mind up, please? NiMH cells don't leak much, or they leak a lot?
I can see your comment being potentially ambiguous, especially if the context wasn't clear.
However, typical AA and AAA cells are not likely to leak.
"Typical" AA and AAA cells would be alkalines, as they are by far the most common.
"Typical [NiMH] AA and AAA cells" are a much smaller category.

This is called a contextomy and is a common way of imputing things that someone did not say.
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #129 on: December 18, 2018, 05:01:52 am »
NiMH maybe unreliable at times but with a good couple chargers nearby, so you can cycle them, a bank of good batteries and keeping track of the capacity it can be worth it in the end if you use them a lot. I am not so dependent on going out and buying them.

I have got two Conrad Voltcraft CM2020 chargers, one that I brought in 2006 and I had a replace the fan in that one a couple of years ago and one in 2012.

I had a lot 20 -30 of AA Energizers I think 2500mah which worked for six years.
They were okay in rated capacity but they don't hold charge for more than a couple of weeks.

In late 2012 I put them aside and brought a lot of Ansmann and most of them still are okay.
They last for more than month in mouse and keyboards and a couple of days in my Philips HD1505 headphones.

I have a couple of SKY RC MC-3000 to charge 8x 18650 Lithium cells.


The chargers seem to differ in charging NiMH round cells.

The CM2020 adjusts the current all the time and according to voltage at whether it is set at 1 or 2 amps and they never get hot. They don't charge constantly at 1 or 2 amps. It appears to increase and decrease up to the charge rate set.

The MC 3000 puts in a fixed charge current that you set and they get very hot over 1a.
The default is 700mah and it gets to about 30 to 40c.

It charges the 18650 very well and they don't get hot as hot as NiMH at a higher current.


I try to be careful with Alkalines. I only put them in when needed and take them out when I don't need them and I keep them away from hot places just incase they leak.
 

Offline Robaroni

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #130 on: December 18, 2018, 05:52:53 am »
NiMH and NiCd leakage is extremely common

However, typical AA and AAA cells are not likely to leak.

That's the problem, they do leak and a lot. Maybe NiMH don't leak much but Alks do.


Make your mind up, please? NiMH cells don't leak much, or they leak a lot?

Statement I addressed:

"Typical AA and AAA cells are not likely to leak."

My response:

 "maybe NiMH don't leak that much BUT ALKs DO."


 

Offline Robaroni

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #131 on: December 18, 2018, 06:00:47 am »


I try to be careful with Alkalines. I only put them in when needed and take them out when I don't need them and I keep them away from hot places just incase they leak.

Batteries have a max charge rate set by the manufacturer. I usually charge at C/10, you can't go very wrong at that rate.

I do the same thing as you with Alkaline batteries.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #132 on: December 18, 2018, 06:08:55 am »
Is the only solution going around, finding all battery powered equipment and removing them, storing everything without any batteries in them and removing the batteries after one is finished using them?

That really is a pain in the butt.  It seems to me that some brands of batteries used to last forever without leaking.  What happened?

Conglomerates buy up battery manufacturers, and run them into the ground with the death spiral of lowest cost for maximum profit.

Duracell got bought up by Procter and Gamble for $5B later spun off to Berkshire Hathaway,  the third largest public company in the world. One share is $300,000 to purchase. Do you think they give a fuck about quality?
 
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Online IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #133 on: December 18, 2018, 06:17:26 am »
I can see your comment being potentially ambiguous, especially if the context wasn't clear.

If you follow the thread the context was very clear.

Ian.M said that the NiMH or NiCd cells used for memory backup on circuit boards commonly leak.

I said that while that may be so, the AA and AAA variety of NiMH are not known for leaking.

Robaroni said maybe so, but alkalines do leak.

Well, no shit, Sherlock! This whole thread is about leaky alkaline batteries. Nobody is saying alkaline batteries don't leak.
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Offline Gary350z

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #134 on: December 18, 2018, 07:14:56 am »
It seems to me that some brands of batteries used to last forever without leaking.  What happened?

Someone made a statement a long while back (I don't know what thread), that said the alkaline battery leaking started about 12 years ago, about the same time as the manufacturers started making more powerful batteries, and that maybe the more powerful formulations generate more internal gas and causes them to leak. :-//

Edit: I see Robaroni had the same idea: "I think they kept pushing the envelope as to how much you can extract from an AAA or AA battery. Kind of a race to the top scenario. Now we're struck with leaking batteries".
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 07:18:28 am by Gary350z »
 
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Online BravoV

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #135 on: December 18, 2018, 07:45:09 am »
The chargers seem to differ in charging NiMH round cells.

The CM2020 adjusts the current all the time and according to voltage at whether it is set at 1 or 2 amps and they never get hot. They don't charge constantly at 1 or 2 amps. It appears to increase and decrease up to the charge rate set.

The MC 3000 puts in a fixed charge current that you set and they get very hot over 1a.
The default is 700mah and it gets to about 30 to 40c.

NiMh when charged with too low C, the charger detection probably will miss the peak detect slope signature as its too shallow, only with additional timer protection will prevent overcharging "and" also assuming it was empty.
 
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Online Ian.M

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #136 on: December 18, 2018, 07:51:07 am »
It seems to me that some brands of batteries used to last forever without leaking.  What happened?

Someone made a statement a long while back (I don't know what thread), that said the alkaline battery leaking started about 12 years ago, about the same time as the manufacturers started making more powerful batteries, and that maybe the more powerful formulations generate more internal gas and causes them to leak. :-//

Edit: I see Robaroni had the same idea: "I think they kept pushing the envelope as to how much you can extract from an AAA or AA battery. Kind of a race to the top scenario. Now we're struck with leaking batteries".
Leaking batteries were certainly fairly common circa 20 year ago, (I did enough  repair work back then to see plenty, and it wasn't just 'Heavy Duty' Zinc Carbon ones, which can be expected to leak if left after discharge), so *IF* that explanation is correct, the timescale is wrong.  I certainly concluded around that era that heavily advertised leading brands like Energizer and Duracell weren't significantly less likely to leak than second tier brands and the better store brands.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #137 on: December 18, 2018, 08:16:16 am »
Decades ago, I never saw alkaline batteries leak like they do today. Carbon-Zinc leaked if they were discharged and sitting for months. The Eveready "9 Lives" ones were pretty terrible for that.
Now alkalines are leaking even when they aren't dead, after 1-2 years.

My belief is AA and AAA seal material has changed for the worst due to cost and environmental concerns.

I'm staying with the pro/industrial alkaline batteries now, not the consumer lines.
Panasonic batteries from Digikey are also not leaking for me.
 
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Offline Robaroni

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #138 on: December 18, 2018, 08:41:58 am »
I can see your comment being potentially ambiguous, especially if the context wasn't clear.

If you follow the thread the context was very clear.

Ian.M said that the NiMH or NiCd cells used for memory backup on circuit boards commonly leak.

I said that while that may be so, the AA and AAA variety of NiMH are not known for leaking.

Robaroni said maybe so, but alkalines do leak.

Well, no shit, Sherlock! This whole thread is about leaky alkaline batteries. Nobody is saying alkaline batteries don't leak.

Maybe you could and go find someone else to continue your petty bickering with and stop biting at my ankles and for awhile.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #139 on: December 18, 2018, 08:46:12 am »
I was going through some of my cable tracers yesterday to see which ones still had the batteries installed and found one of my Aegis CZ-1000 tracers completely dead, the probe was fine and uses a 9 volt battery but the oscillator uses two AA's, these happened to be Toshiba alkalines both marked as best before 2009, the battery tester shows one is working as good as new and the other is completely dead, like nothing at all. Anyway, they didn't leak and I don't ever remember seeing a leaky Toshiba battery, plenty of Duracell Procells and those Dick Smith Digitors but never a Toshiba. 
 

Offline Robaroni

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #140 on: December 18, 2018, 08:47:33 am »
Decades ago, I never saw alkaline batteries leak like they do today. Carbon-Zinc leaked if they were discharged and sitting for months. The Eveready "9 Lives" ones were pretty terrible for that.
Now alkalines are leaking even when they aren't dead, after 1-2 years.

My belief is AA and AAA seal material has changed for the worst due to cost and environmental concerns.

I'm staying with the pro/industrial alkaline batteries now, not the consumer lines.
Panasonic batteries from Digikey are also not leaking for me.

Thanks, I'll give the Panasonics a try.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #141 on: December 18, 2018, 11:24:55 am »
I was going through some of my cable tracers yesterday to see which ones still had the batteries installed and found one of my Aegis CZ-1000 tracers completely dead, the probe was fine and uses a 9 volt battery but the oscillator uses two AA's, these happened to be Toshiba alkalines both marked as best before 2009, the battery tester shows one is working as good as new and the other is completely dead, like nothing at all. Anyway, they didn't leak

...and I don't ever remember seeing a leaky Toshiba battery, plenty of Duracell Procells and those Dick Smith Digitors but never a Toshiba.

Recall City: yes, I'll vouch for Toshiba alkaline batteries too  :-+  never had one leak even when flat and forgotten  :-[

Never had any smoke detector issue with them either, they were cheap to buy and just worked till I swapped them out every 6 or 12 months,
and put the used ones in multimeters or other gadgets etc.

I still have a pair of red style 9v Toshiba that are dated 2003-ish, used, and still show 8.4 volts under load.
No leaks, corrosion and will serve fine in a multimeter in a pinch.

fwiw I had the same positive experience with Tandy/Realstic?  9v batteries too.

Not sure if the current Toshiba battery line can perform half as well, but I'd buy them exclusively if they do,

but not holding my breath on that one...  ::)

 

 

Offline cdev

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #142 on: December 18, 2018, 11:43:54 am »
Batteries are planned obsolescence's friends!
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Offline james_s

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #143 on: December 18, 2018, 04:11:59 pm »
No battery that has liquid inside it is absolutely immune to leaking, but some are far, far less likely to leak than others. I've been using Eneloops and some similar LSD NiMH cells since shortly after they came out and I have yet to have a single one leak or even hear of one leaking. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely enough that I don't worry about leaving them installed in my expensive gear. Alkalines on the other hand seem practically guaranteed to leak. I've had so many of them leak that I've lost count, multiple times they started leaking while still in the package and other times the device they were in was still working when I discovered the batteries were leaking while still producing juice.
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #144 on: December 19, 2018, 04:12:25 am »
No battery that has liquid inside it is absolutely immune to leaking, but some are far, far less likely to leak than others. I've been using Eneloops and some similar LSD NiMH cells since shortly after they came out and I have yet to have a single one leak or even hear of one leaking. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely enough that I don't worry about leaving them installed in my expensive gear. Alkalines on the other hand seem practically guaranteed to leak. I've had so many of them leak that I've lost count, multiple times they started leaking while still in the package and other times the device they were in was still working when I discovered the batteries were leaking while still producing juice.

I was considering of buying them instead of the Ansmann many years ago for their long life but I read issues with the current draw such as the flash on cameras and leaking associated with high current use. I might want to do draw more current for my experiments so I decided to wait.
 

Online IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #145 on: December 19, 2018, 04:29:59 am »
I was considering of buying them instead of the Ansmann many years ago for their long life but I read issues with the current draw such as the flash on cameras and leaking associated with high current use. I might want to do draw more current for my experiments so I decided to wait.

What are you referring to when you say "them". Do you mean rechargeable NiMH cells like Eneloops?
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #146 on: December 19, 2018, 04:48:40 am »
I was considering of buying them instead of the Ansmann many years ago for their long life but I read issues with the current draw such as the flash on cameras and leaking associated with high current use. I might want to do draw more current for my experiments so I decided to wait.

What are you referring to when you say "them". Do you mean rechargeable NiMH cells like Eneloops?

Sorry Eneloops.

I was choosing between the Ansmann AA and AAA's and the Eneloops.

I read some issues with the Eneloops leaking whilst they were used in the external flashes on cameras. I wanted the high power drain so I went the Ansmann and that was in 2012. Now I see they are selling the Eneloop Pro with 500 cycles for high drain. I can't remember all the details but I knew it was an issue then.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 04:55:42 am by MrMobodies »
 

Online IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #147 on: December 19, 2018, 06:21:25 am »
I read some issues with the Eneloops leaking whilst they were used in the external flashes on cameras. I wanted the high power drain so I went the Ansmann and that was in 2012. Now I see they are selling the Eneloop Pro with 500 cycles for high drain. I can't remember all the details but I knew it was an issue then.

That's strange, I've never come across any complaints like that about Eneloops. In what tests I have seen they are robust and handle high current drains, bettered only by specialized high power cells. In my personal testing I had an older cell start venting when I tried to charge it at a 2 amp rate, but in this case it was only gas that vented and no liquid escaped. If you charge at a more sensible rate of 1 amp or less there are no issues. (In fact if you disassemble an Eneloop you will find it to be quite dry inside. Such NiMH cells have an "electrolyte starved" design.)

Eneloops should handle a 2 amp discharge rate with no trouble at all, and can handle a 5 amp discharge rate if you can put up with a bit of voltage sag. Also the 2000 mAh Eneloops will handle high power loads better than the 2400 mAh pro version. The higher capacity cells have thinner and more fragile internal elements.
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Online IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #148 on: December 19, 2018, 06:23:38 am »
Now I see they are selling the Eneloop Pro with 500 cycles for high drain.

Be careful with this. They are higher capacity, but lower power output. Capacity and power output are inversely related.
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Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #149 on: December 19, 2018, 01:14:07 pm »
Duracells leak new in the pack. Avoid. I now use dollar store alkalines for my old calculator and labelmaker. Not a single problem so far.
I lost a RC helicopter (a toy but still) remote to the Duracells vomiting forth within a few months.
 


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