Author Topic: Leaking AA and AAA batteries  (Read 19962 times)

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Online wraper

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #150 on: December 19, 2018, 01:23:57 pm »
Now I see they are selling the Eneloop Pro with 500 cycles for high drain.

Be careful with this. They are higher capacity, but lower power output. Capacity and power output are inversely related.
Nope, the only significant difference is charge cycle count. Basically they traded reliability for capacity.

https://produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/1100000-1199999/001188322-da-01-en-ENELOOP_MIGNON_AKKU__8ER_SET.PDF
https://produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/250000-274999/252002-da-01-en-ENELOOP_MIGNON_AA_2ER_PACK.pdf
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/1200000-1299999/001221220-da-01-en-PANASONIC_MIGNON_AKKU_ENELOOP_PRO__4ER.PDF
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 01:26:52 pm by wraper »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #151 on: December 19, 2018, 01:29:06 pm »
It's quite possible that the charge cycle count is related to the power output. A cell that is capable of delivering more current may go more cycles before it is deemed "worn out" with a given load.

All of the LSD types I've used are lacking somewhat in terms of delivering high current, it's just not what they're optimized for. It's ok though because generally if you need a lot of current, you don't need the low self discharge which is handy for small/intermittent loads.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #152 on: December 19, 2018, 01:47:42 pm »
It's quite possible that the charge cycle count is related to the power output. A cell that is capable of delivering more current may go more cycles before it is deemed "worn out" with a given load.

All of the LSD types I've used are lacking somewhat in terms of delivering high current, it's just not what they're optimized for. It's ok though because generally if you need a lot of current, you don't need the low self discharge which is handy for small/intermittent loads.
Check datasheets above your post.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #153 on: December 19, 2018, 03:10:57 pm »
Nope, the only significant difference is charge cycle count. Basically they traded reliability for capacity.

Check datasheets above your post.

Yes, the performance is very similar. But I think the graphs show that the 2000 mAh cell can sustain a slightly higher terminal voltage at high discharge currents than the 2550 mAh cell. The difference is not huge, which says a lot for the quality of the cells.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #154 on: December 19, 2018, 03:21:32 pm »
Offtopic for leaking cell, but related to current discussion on NiMh, worth bookmarked imo -> http://aacycler.com/

Online wraper

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #155 on: December 19, 2018, 03:35:36 pm »
But I think the graphs show that the 2000 mAh cell can sustain a slightly higher terminal voltage at high discharge currents than the 2550 mAh cell. The difference is not huge, which says a lot for the quality of the cells.
Nope, look at curves again. Discharge curve lines are drawn at a bit different currents, so take it into consideration. Say PRO battery @ 5A discharge current drops to 1.1V when 1500 mAh was discharged. Regular last generation eneloop produces 1.1V  after 1500 mAh discharged at 4A current (lower than PRO current) and after 1150mAh discharged with 6A current. So you can see regular eneloop is not even a tad better. PRO version will hold higher voltage for longer at the same high discharge current.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #156 on: December 19, 2018, 07:36:47 pm »
Duracells leak new in the pack. Avoid. I now use dollar store alkalines for my old calculator and labelmaker. Not a single problem so far.

I lost a RC helicopter (a toy but still) remote to the Duracells vomiting forth within a few months.


Ouch!  :(

Yep, seen it too, apparently there are legit (?!!) Duracell badged knockoffs (?!!)  going around too,
they sort of look not quite right to me, perhaps it's the font size?
who knows what jizz formula they are loaded up with, and overall construction ?  :-//

FWIW to the local aussie battery shoppers, I'm currently giving the Narva badged AA, AAA, and 9 volt batteries a go, the blister pack type Bunnings sell at battler friendly prices  :clap: 
Apparently made in Germany.
or blister packed in Germany,
or marketing concept made in Germany
and manufacturing subbed to TuHungLo Batterys Conepany

So far so good  :phew:  fingers and multimeter leads crossed they don't do The Exorcist gig inside 'can't afford to buy again' gear...   :scared:


 

Offline tooki

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #157 on: December 20, 2018, 08:20:06 pm »
What the heck does a “legit knockoff” even mean? If it’s legitimate, then it’s not a knockoff...
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #158 on: December 23, 2018, 08:00:19 am »
One brand I haven't had a problem in about 10 years is Rayovac AA and AAA alkalines. Sure, they are not the most powerful out there, but I had equipment inadvertently fitted with them for many years past expiration with no leakage problems.

Another brand that I haven't seen discussed here is Maxell - I used to see them sporadically, but my Keysight U1282A came with them (Black color Industrial version, can't be bought anywhere) and one of their claims (Keysight) is the absolutely low power consumption of this meter.

Anecdoctal evidence, several of my kids' toys come with a chinese battery brand called Tianqiu that takes an extreme amount of punishment and I haven't seen them leak. The number of batteries I encountered is rather small, but the amount of punishment put Duracells and Energizers to shame.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #159 on: December 23, 2018, 10:38:53 am »
Nano Rant Alert:  ;D

90 percent of pricey gear I've encountered with leaked batteries were fitted with Energizers. It's not even a maybe or 50/50 coin toss anymore  :palm:

They are the first item to be tossed or swapped out whatever their apparent state, be it new/used/unknown/who cares... before I proceed further to test any unit.
I'll go with whatever is available instead, even a mix of 'matched' new and used hard to pronounce the brand name MIC cheapies which is a NO-NO!  :scared: 
but still a better bet (Note: FOR ME!) than Enerjizzzers =  :-BROKE

Shows what great marketing can do year after year to flog overpriced landfill bound polished pos, to roll battling faith filled connedsumers  >:D


Some of these crappy battery brands somehow react with the battery terminals too, creating a crusty metallurgic?  effect, even though no 'apparent' leakage is present/visible.  :-//

That's another thing to watch out from that, fuzzy connections sending intermittent doses of 3.0v, 4.5 to 6 volts to a confused 6v driven meter or other device,
especially with vibrations, like plugging in leads and or moving the unit. Great for diode checks... :-+ ---> |O

Easily fixed by checking/adjusting connector tensions and lubing, but that's unpaid extra work  :rant:
cans of quality contact/lube cleaners and Q-tips are not free, nor included in the battery blister pack,
which in a lot of cases may require a blowtorch or grinder to open  :o

----------------------

Breaking News: The beloved Energizer Bunny has been arrested and charged with assault and battery

www.reddit.com/r/evilbuildings/comments/7nn3tc/breaking_news_the_beloved_energizer_bunny_has/


Break out the tar and feathers when Bunny hits the street again...   :popcorn:

« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 10:50:10 am by Electro Detective »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #160 on: December 23, 2018, 10:48:22 am »
I have seen no real difference in the leakiness between Duracell and Energizer, they're both crap. Seems like Energizer used to be more leak prone in the 80s-90s but then it's like Duracell said "hold my beer and watch this!"
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #161 on: December 23, 2018, 11:01:24 am »
I have seen no real difference in the leakiness between Duracell and Energizer, they're both crap.

Seems like Energizer used to be more leak prone in the 80s-90s but then it's like Duracell said "hold my beer and watch this!"


That would not surprise me, I only use the alkaline 9v Duracells in smoke detectors because that's what they come with in the packet for starters,
and they have a good enough rep (and sales) for a chance to sue some dollars from them if they fail in a unit due to suss manufacturing,

including their own legit knockoffs > identically badged but cheaply made by them for smoke detector and other gadget sellers that demand -CHEAP- 
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #162 on: December 23, 2018, 02:24:34 pm »
I have experienced a much higher rate of leakage failures with Duracell, even though I rarely buy them any more. It seems there must be a lot of unknown parameters at work here.

I wonder how hard it would be to accurately determine the failure rate of the major brands of batteries due to leakage. I'd bet that even today the manufacturers themselves don't really know to any great precision. I imagine it would be a massive project, and probably impractical to even consider trying due to the large number of variables.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #163 on: December 23, 2018, 02:42:05 pm »
Batteries leaked in my Keysight U1272A twice in a row. First time I needed to order and replace a whole back cover as some springy terminals were completely destroyed. Second time I noticed it fast enough and although terminals corroded a bit, I managed to just clean them. Not that much damage was made, just some tarnishing. So I said to myself: fuck 'em, non rechargeable batteries no more.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #164 on: December 24, 2018, 12:35:58 am »
Batteries leaked in my Keysight U1272A twice in a row.
That's what scares the heck out of me, especially after a pair of Duracells recently ruined a pristine HP95LX that I have.
I ended up changing the Maxell AAs of my U1282A to Lithium non rechargeables. My U1273A, on the other hand, depletes batteries a lot faster, so it is fitted with the aforementioed Ray-o-vacs.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online wraper

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #165 on: December 24, 2018, 01:21:01 am »
I bought a bunch IKEA LADDA (white) which are the same batteries as panasonic eneloop pro except print on the label. around $7 for a pack of 4. Not that expensive.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #166 on: December 24, 2018, 01:22:25 am »
I couldn’t disagree more about Duracell vs Energizer: I’ve had tons of Duracells leak, very few Energizers. That said, I now just buy the IKEA alkalines. They used to be made by Varta, but now they’re made in China, dunno by whom. (The IKEA rechargeables are Eneloops.)
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #167 on: December 24, 2018, 02:08:53 am »
One brand I haven't had a problem in about 10 years is Rayovac AA and AAA alkalines. Sure, they are not the most powerful out there, but I had equipment inadvertently fitted with them for many years past expiration with no leakage problems.


Thats funny because RayoVac is the worst leaker I've had.  Had a few kids toys ruined and even found some leaking in the package in the store.
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #168 on: December 24, 2018, 02:16:42 am »
Vatra High Energy alkaline factory line...
Seems they use a bitumen blob for the seal.
At 4min30s is the self test, with every 8th cell failing by the looks of it!


 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #169 on: December 24, 2018, 02:23:46 am »
One brand I haven't had a problem in about 10 years is Rayovac AA and AAA alkalines. Sure, they are not the most powerful out there, but I had equipment inadvertently fitted with them for many years past expiration with no leakage problems.


Thats funny because RayoVac is the worst leaker I've had.  Had a few kids toys ruined and even found some leaking in the package in the store.
Yes... That only shows how much variability is out there.

I wonder if it boils down to a compromise between high output power/capacity and low leakage. I can only speculate, though.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #170 on: December 24, 2018, 05:53:32 am »
It wouldn't surprise me if even the big name brands are often made in different factories using different processes depending on the market. There could also be a bit of confirmation bias going on.

When it comes down to it, I've had alkalines of almost every brand I've used leak, the one thing I am quite certain of is that modern ones are far more leak prone than they used to be. For some reason too AA seems to be the worst, I have had very few C and D cells leak although I don't use very many of those either.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #171 on: December 24, 2018, 06:23:38 am »
Vatra High Energy alkaline factory line...

At 2m37s -- "the battery is filled with this toxic, corrosive, gloopy substance" -- well there's the trouble, right there. Do you want to put containers of toxic, corrosive, gloopy substance inside your valuable electronic devices? It's a problem waiting to happen.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #172 on: December 24, 2018, 06:52:24 am »
At 4min30s is the self test, with every 8th cell failing by the looks of it!
I strongly suspect what’s being filmed there is a self-test of the testing machine itself, to show for the camera how a reject is ejected.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #173 on: December 24, 2018, 06:28:51 pm »

Taking in all the horror stories here, it appears NONE of the reputable batteries are worth wasting money on  :--

especially former competing 'kings' and bonking bunny floggers Duracell and Eveready 

Their suspect to bad performance varies from country to country, or state to state it seems. 

Ladies and gents with expensive test gear > put a reminder in your phone calender to swap out the leakers every six months  :scared:

or better still 3 months

Better to blow $6 than $600...  :phew:





 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Leaking AA and AAA batteries
« Reply #174 on: December 25, 2018, 12:14:39 am »
You think all batteries for a brand come out the same plant. They are made in various countries, in various plants and with varying quality. Duracell I know comes from Mexico, Indonesia, Singapore and China, having seen that on the outer printed package as to country of origin, and you also see grey imports of job lots coming in, destined for somewhere like UAE, with only Arabic writing on the packaging, and the only English being Duracell AA or AAA on the package, the rest, including importer and distributor details, being in Arabic script written right to left.

Just wish I could find out the supplier of the white no name cells, sold by Unilever with Airoma packages, those things I found never leak, as I was buying the whole package on a "2 units plus 2 refills" sale for a while, as the price for the package was actually cheaper than the retail price of the 2 refill pack anyway. I would simply take the units, strip them and drop in the recycling bin, and use the refills, and keep the AA cells they came with. Then stopped buying them.
 
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