Lindstrom Cutters

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--I want to buy some Lindstrom cutters to cut leads of soldered through hole componets. I would like a smoother and flusher cut.
Exactly what model of Lindstrom should I get?

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."
Benjamin Franklin 1706 - 1790

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[robrenz]

I have a pair of these RX series, very nice.  The handles are great, definatley the best style of all the pliers I have.
I also just bought some Tronex cutters that I think may be even better quality than the lindstroms. You should give them a look also.
http://www.tronextools.com/

Cut styles, I assume you would want ultra flush cut
http://www.lindstromtools.com/tools_cutters_how.htm

RX styles,  You will have to pick what style will give you the access you need.
http://www.lindstromtools.com/tools_cutters_rx_assort.htm

Download the RX section of the catalog to get sizes and better pics and dimensions
http://www.lindstromtools.com/download.htm

[SgtRock]

Dear Robrenz:

--Thanks for the good info. Looks like the Ultra-Flush Cut is the one I want. Now if I can just figure out the model number so I can snipe a pair on Fleabay, skinflint that I am.

"Does not squirrel crack nuts on bough of oak tree."
Lao Fu 1410 1620

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[Psi]

The more flush they are the easier it is to damage them, since the cutting surface is thinner.
eg

/ \  vs |\

Be sure to keep them in a safe place or you will learn the hard way when a friend tries to cut something that's too thick.
(Non-electrical people do not expect cutters to be worth $300 when they pick them up to use).

Don't get me wrong, Lindstrom cutters are awesome and will last almost forever if you cut only correct size wire, but you need to be aware that it only takes one cut of oversize wire to cause damage.

The tip damage here is from when a friend cut something too big.
The smaller damage halfway down i didn't actually know about until i took this picture now.

And these are the semi-flush kind. So the fully flush will be even more easy to damage.

(These are 1 year old.)

[robrenz]

Agreed,
The Tronix actually come with a paper showing the recommended max size in copper at the tip and max size at the back. I like that the Tronix have a adjustable stop screw that controls the closed position instead of the cutting edges having to absorb uncontrolled force. The edges do contact just before the screw but additional force is absorbed by the stop screw.

If you have a microscope and good fine grit stones or diamond files you can recondition those edges yourself. Just takes some time, patience, and correct procedure.

[IanB]

Alternatively, you can buy a few pairs of these Hakko cutters and be less worried about damage. They really are a very nice cutter: sharp, precise, comfortable to hold.

http://www.scubatools.com/p-433-hakko-side-cut-5.aspx

[SgtRock]

Dear Psi:

--Thanks for the good advice. I will try to keep from doing anything stupid (like I usually do) with my soon to be good Lindstrom cutters. I like to clean finished boards with Isopropyl Alcohol. If I try to rub the board, the paper towel, or cloth or Q-Tip tends to leave lint snagged on the sharp points of my poorly flush cut component ends. My present system is to first scrub with a toothbrush and Alcohol, (Vodka will work in a pinch, and I am often in a pinch). Then I blot with a dried out baby wipe, and repeat. I hate boards that snag everything, and I hate left over flux.

"Happy for you to desoldering, please."
Wun Hung Lo 1948 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[IanB]

If I try to rub the board, the paper towel, or cloth or Q-Tip tends to leave lint snagged on the sharp points of my poorly flush cut component ends.

With regard to this particularly, some professional soldering trainers teach that the component leads should be cut to the correct length before soldering. This has two benefits: it prevents a tangle of long leads getting in the way of the iron when soldering a fully populated board, and it avoids the sharp cut edges that result from cutting after soldering.

[robrenz]

A very light touch scuffing with a fine grit sanding sponge in circular pattern might do the trick on all those picky little burrs.

[FenderBender]

I saw Home Depot had like a 2 piece Xcelite shear cutters set. $14 for two. http://www.homedepot.com/Xcelite/h_d1/N-644Z5yc1v/R-100163974/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051#.UELVLtYiatk

Not bad if you live near a Home Depot, in my opinion.

[SgtRock]

Dear IanB:

--Thanks for the tip on the Hakko nippers, I love Hakko. I have 2 936s, one for light and one for heavy, for really heavy I have the Weller Industrial Gun. I notice that Lady Ada (Adafruit Industries) is offering the Hakko nippers, but so far, only on eBay and out of the UK, go figure.

“You can't help respecting anybody who can spell TUESDAY, even if he doesn't spell it right; but spelling isn't everything. There are days when spelling Tuesday simply doesn't count.”
Winnie the Pooh 1925 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[T4P]

http://dx.com/p/5-inch-electrical-cutter-6996?item=1

Used them for quite a while, very smooth and i can cut AWG18 

Thanks for the hakko side cutter advice, i'll get one and compare that with my abovementioned cutter

[SgtRock]

Dear FenderBender:

--I seem to recall destroying some of those Xcelite nippers as well. But that is a good price, so I will shlep my carcass down to my local Home Depot where the parking lot is full of fly-by-nights trying to undercut the poor honest subcontractors who pay taxes and have insurance, and spend a lot of money at H.D. Why H.D. tolerates this I will never know. Eventually someone is going to get robbed or hurt, then it will stop.

"If you build a better mousetrap, you will catch better mice."
George Gobel 1919 1991
 
Best Regards
Clear Ether

[eliocor]

Even if i LOVE Lindstrom tools (cutters and tweezers), I think that for professional daily use the Full Flush cutters made by Erem are better.
I suggest you the 522N and 622N models: see detailed catalog
In general I use Lindstrom cutters only for really delicate operations like for clipping QFP pins

[T4P]

A very light touch scuffing with a fine grit sanding sponge in circular pattern might do the trick on all those picky little burrs.

I use diamond coated deburring tips - There are titanium nitride coated ones as well as tungsten carbide coated

If I try to rub the board, the paper towel, or cloth or Q-Tip tends to leave lint snagged on the sharp points of my poorly flush cut component ends.

With regard to this particularly, some professional soldering trainers teach that the component leads should be cut to the correct length before soldering. This has two benefits: it prevents a tangle of long leads getting in the way of the iron when soldering a fully populated board, and it avoids the sharp cut edges that result from cutting after soldering.

I do that all the time, it works great especially if you stuck some masking tape on the topside

[SgtRock]

Eliocor:

--Thanks for the tip. The Erems appear to be top notch professional (which I am not, except in spirit) equipment. Could you please give us an idea of the cost for a pair?

"Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid."
Mark Twain (Samuel Langhorne Clemens ) 1835 - 1910

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[SgtRock]

Dear T4P & Robrenz:

--Indeed I take your point. A lot of the "snaggyness" is caused by my bending the leads to the side to keep the component from falling out. The masking tape (which leaves no residue behind) is a good idea.  When I am being a real fuss budget, I like to hold the component in place with my left and using a little liquid flux in situ, carry the solder to the joint on the tip of the iron.

"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does the work."
Mark Twain (Samuel Langhorne Clemens ) 1835 1910

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[amspire]

The more flush they are the easier it is to damage them, since the cutting surface is thinner.

Definitely. I would never buy an Ultra-flush Lindstrom unless I was regularly cutting wires thinner then 0.3mm.

I recommend the Micro-bevel. Most of the time, they do exactly the same job as flush cutters, but they are much tougher. The bevel is minute - perhaps 0.1mm, but the result is that the edge is very much less probe to damage.

Don't get me wrong, Lindstrom cutters are awesome and will last almost forever if you cut only correct size wire, but you need to be aware that it only takes one cut of oversize wire to cause damage.

The tip damage here is from when a friend cut something too big.
The smaller damage halfway down i didn't actually know about until i took this picture now.

And these are the semi-flush kind. So the fully flush will be even more easy to damage.

I have a a Lindstrom 8150 cutter that I bought in the 1970's.

http://www.all-spec.com/products/8150.html

I have regularly exceeded the rated wire size without any significant nicks. That includes cutting spring steel wire. Either the steel isn't as good as it used to be, or your friend really abused those cutters. Like using them to cut high tensile fencing wire, or something similar. I often just use the cheap $15 flush cutters on my bench - like the excellent Xcelite cutters, but it doesn't take much at all to damage them. As soon as I need tough cutters, I use the Lindstrom.

Richard.

[eliocor]

The Erems appear to be top notch professional [...] Could you please give us an idea of the cost for a pair?

Yes, indeed: in our office they are used daily and the last time we bought them was about 7-8 year ago!!!
At this date no one of them need to be replaced.
It seems their price is from 40 to 50 USD apiece.
If you think 2 of them are too expensive, I suggest you to buy only the 522N: the head is a bit bigger than the 622N (which is smaller)
To me, the 522N is a "general purpose" cutter, the 622N is for more precise work.

[eliocor]

I hope from the following images you understand why those cutters are almost indestructible: I even do not remember how long I own them (here at my home lab), but except for the accumulated dirt and some minor rust spots, blades are yet perfect.
Please also take a look to the thickness of the blades in the second photo: completely different from the typical 10-20$ cheap cutters.



The following picture shows the size (in mm) of the two models (522N left / 622NA right):

[nanofrog]

Currently have a mixture of Erem, Lindstrom, Swanstrom, and Excelta (5 star).

• I love the Excelta's (smooth, effortless to cut with <semi-flush>, sharp as hell, and very comfortable), but they're rather expensive, even compared to the other brands.
• Lindstrom's RX grips are comfortable, though I'm not sure about long term reliability (feel like it takes a bit much effort cutting <standard bevel> without exceeding the max wire size, so I'm a bit nervous).
• The Erem's are smooth (all semi flush), and cut effortlessly. Their idea of ergonomic grips (2400 series) are a sad joke though (slip and slide in my hands, even when they're dry). Better off with the standard grips IMHO.
• Swanstrom's are smooth as well <semi-flush>, and I have exceeded their max rated wire gauge (got them used off of eBay to try, so less of a loss if I destroy them). Larger than most for it's rated wire size, so rather under-rated it seems.

I recommend the Micro-bevel. Most of the time, they do exactly the same job as flush cutters, but they are much tougher. The bevel is minute - perhaps 0.1mm, but the result is that the edge is very much less probe to damage.

+1

Most of mine are this type, the rest being standard bevels. Worst case, as others have mentioned, a good fine file can take the spike off the end of the lead.

I have regularly exceeded the rated wire size without any significant nicks. That includes cutting spring steel wire. Either the steel isn't as good as it used to be, or your friend really abused those cutters.

Might have to do with the manufacture date though, as the current Lindstroms are now made in Spain (since 2004 IIRC; steel isn't as hard from what I understand, so more prone to nicks).

I have some of the newer Lindstroms, but have been too chicken to cut larger wire than they're rated for given their replacement cost.

[Psi]

I have a a Lindstrom 8150 cutter that I bought in the 1970's.

I have regularly exceeded the rated wire size without any significant nicks.

Mine are Lindstrom 8141, they're smaller and flush http://www.all-spec.com/products/8141.html

[G7PSK]

What ever make of tool you buy make sure that it is forged rather than stamped from sheet. I have noticed that even many of the Lindstrom cutters are now stamped out of sheet as that is cheaper to make than drop forging but the sections will be thinner so that the cutting edge does not have the same support. Also don't forget about end cutters as these are often better for getting down into tight spaces.

[robrenz]

I found this after I bought a pair of Tronex cutters.
hover over the Cutting edge technology header and there are three sub catagories.  The engineering and techincal bulletins topics are very informative.  These things are very well made.
http://www.tronextools.com/cutting-edge-technology/

[T4P]

I have a cheapy end cutter and they are good for leaving flat marks but i find it is very easy to accidentally nick the solder 

The fully flushed side cutters are great at leaving nice beautiful flat marks (Especially goot and hakko)
And sorry i don't know anything about european cutters

[M. András]

I hope from the following images you understand why those cutters are almost indestructible: I even do not remember how long I own them (here at my home lab), but except for the accumulated dirt and some minor rust spots, blades are yet perfect.
Please also take a look to the thickness of the blades in the second photo: completely different from the typical 10-20$ cheap cutters.



The following picture shows the size (in mm) of the two models (522N left / 622NA right):

jes what happened to its handle?

what about knipex cutters?

[eliocor]

jes what happened to its handle?

The handle is soft and made of a substance which does not melt at contact with typical certified electronics cleaners (IPA/...)

Please take care that the cutters in my pictures were used for at least 8-10 years so they are dirty and a bit battered... 

[robrenz]

Excelta seems to make a huge amount of very specialized pliers and look like very high quality also

website http://www.excelta.com/home
Catalog link http://www.excelta.com/asset/file/0000/0045/Catalog.pdf

[eliocor]

Excelta seems to make a huge amount of very specialized pliers and look like very high quality also

I think at least half of their catalog is made of rebranded tools: tweezers are for sure made by Ideal-Tek (see my previous posts on EEVblog) and the same is for the cutters.
I recognize them because I own some of them (without any mark because they had some very small flaws: 2 euros apiece was a bonanza!).

From my posts, I think you'll understand I LOVE precision tools!!! Maybe they will cost a fortune, but if correctly used they will last forever. 

[ftransform]

Can you really notice the difference in cut compared to say cheap swanstrom cutters?
I mean if you are going to pay 300$ for a pair of indestructible cutters why not just buy 5 cheaper cutters for 100$?


Can someone post detailed (microscope?) pictures comparing a cheap cutters wire cut to a 100$ wire cutter cut?

To me this seems similar to audiophoolery but I don't know.. I can practically bite through the wire I am cutting with the cutters...
I noticed that the mis-matched POS chinese no name cutters that came in a cheap tool kit were pretty horrible at cutting wires but I can't imagine it getting better then these full flush swanstrom cutters I bought...

[eliocor]

The reason because I prefer good quality tools is very simple: once I have bought one of them, if correctly used it will continue to work flawlessly for several (even 15-20) years.
Please remember that I use my tools in a professional way (daily usage) and not once or twice a month.
If you prefer to use cheap tools, good for you. In the long term my 50$* will cost less than your cheap 10$ apiece which needs replacement after few months of usage.

I have some good mechanical tools (inherited from my father) which are old like me (50 years) but even for today standards they are flawlessly (their look can be a bit outdated...).
Maybe he spent lots of money, but it was a really good investment.
- - - -
Sorry, but I'm not able to make the comparison, lacking cheap cutters.
But please take a look to the photos I posted in the tweezer thread: You'll discover the difference from a cheap tweezer (used only few times) and some good ones.

*) I do not know where you got the 100/300$ unit price: I warmly suggest you to change tools distributor! To my knowledge, 40-60$ apiece is the right price for a GOOD general purpose cutter (in 1 quantity)

[ftransform]

I guess I took the hyperbole in this thread too seriously. 40$ seems alot more reasonable.


Btw those tweezers do look nice but I am working on building a vacuum pickup tool.

[robrenz]

I think at least half of their catalog is made of rebranded tools:

Now that you mention it, the cutters must be made by Tronex they are identical.

[eliocor]

from their catalog it seems they are not the same...

[robrenz]

The Excelta 7000 series is an exact copy of Tronex.  Same handles, same laser etch, stop screws, etc. The last 2 digits of the model numbers are even the same for the same plier. I would be suprised if they are not made by Tronex.

[T4P]

I guess I took the hyperbole in this thread too seriously. 40$ seems alot more reasonable.


Btw those tweezers do look nice but I am working on building a vacuum pickup tool.

I didn't build i bought 
2 vac pickup tools and a reel holder for only 15USD

[nanofrog]

The Excelta 7000 series is an exact copy of Tronex.  Same handles, same laser etch, stop screws, etc. The last 2 digits of the model numbers are even the same for the same plier. I would be suprised if they are not made by Tronex.

At least some seem to be re-branded Tronex, as the Excelta 7170E I have is an exact match with a Tronex 7070, but though the construction is similar (as you describe), the 7141E doesn't have an exact match with a Tronex part (physical dimensions are different; Medium size is 0.33" for Tronex, 0.44" on the Excelta <jaw length>). Though like you, I suspect it's an ODM product made by Tronex for Excelta the more I compare the two.

[ftransform]

I guess I took the hyperbole in this thread too seriously. 40$ seems alot more reasonable.


Btw those tweezers do look nice but I am working on building a vacuum pickup tool.

I didn't build i bought 
2 vac pickup tools and a reel holder for only 15USD

I wanted to build a compressor one with a foot pedal

[Psi]

*) I do not know where you got the 100/300$ unit price: I warmly suggest you to change tools distributor! To my knowledge, 40-60$ apiece is the right price for a GOOD general purpose cutter (in 1 quantity)

Lindstrom cutters are NZ$100-$300 from RScomponents, depending on model.

eg
http://newzealand.rs-online.com/web/p/electronics-cutters-accessories/2284042/
http://newzealand.rs-online.com/web/p/electronics-cutters-accessories/1205004/

[robrenz]

Lindstrom and Tronex are both in the $45.00 to $75.00 range depending on model in the US.  We are talking about the carbon steel versions not the tungsten or carbide versions.

[T4P]

I guess I took the hyperbole in this thread too seriously. 40$ seems alot more reasonable.


Btw those tweezers do look nice but I am working on building a vacuum pickup tool.

I didn't build i bought 
2 vac pickup tools and a reel holder for only 15USD

I wanted to build a compressor one with a foot pedal

i see 
Aren't aquarium pumps compressors? Not sure ... But the vac pickup system i'm buying is a compressor ( Of course it's OHL ... )

[IanB]

Compressors are devices for moving gas from a source at a lower pressure to a destination at a higher pressure. Therefore a compressor is a suction pump on the inlet side and a pressure pump on the outlet side. It's all a question of how you look at it.