Microsoft buys GitHub (CONFIRMED)

[Simon]

I would not have a problem with Linux I tried it several times but the graphical control panel gave very few options so you had to find out how use the command line, except the stuck up users on forums are unwilling to help unless you basically already know most of your solution.

Not all Linux is free, I run my own VPS and attempted to use a "free" control panel only to hit the same old "attitude" when I needed to fix a problem they caused with their update. I could of paid for support but I was told that it was all free...... I now run cPanel, i have to pay for it but I don't get the linux snot attitude when I need to sort something out.

I think hardware vendors and software developers may be reluctant to commit until there is less diversity in OSes. I have never had decent graphics performance on linux although it is a few years since i bothered because I need a system that just works so that i can get on with my life. I hate microsoft but there is no clear alternative.

[bd139]

Nothing is free. It either costs time or money and sometimes both. Linux allows you to leverage knowledge to reduce time which is initially higher but has no monetary cost. This is at the cost of losing a lot of convenience and discoverability of a GUI. BUT at the gain of unlimited composition and understanding the problem domain and technology. You can take lots of little bits of generic knowledge and sling them all together to build a solution very quickly once you've spent that time cost.

Anything which promises to do all this composition for you in one blob appears to be run by asshats as a rule. This is due to CADT model [1]. Don't expect any luck there.

You'll find that on the hosting front, going for a control panel is the wrong solution if you have to run a business off it. You're better learning ansible and deploying the little components yourself rather than relying on someone's best composition model. With all the control panels, be it commercial, integrated into the OS or otherwise, they hide a lot of the architecture of what is going on away from you. And believe me when the shit inevitably hits the fan they hide where the problem is and your understanding of how to get to it. I had the unenvious task of digging a whole cPanel ISP out of the crap about a decade ago after cPanel fell over on them in style. They couldn't handle it because they didn't know how the parts worked.

For me, this is a winner and I'm building a business on this right now: CentOS, AWS, Python, Flask, PostgreSQL, RabbitMQ, nginx, ansible and Windows on the desktop (there I said it )

[1] https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html

[Simon]

I would be quite happy to pay for a desktop version of linux, ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user. No snottiness just make it work and make it easy. The problem is that linux currently is seen as and is for those into programming. My dad can hardly grasp the conceps of windows he would never manage to sort anything out on linux. Once you have a single serious supported platform hardware manufacturers will start to make drivers ani sofware companies will consider it as their go to platform to target their software.

No free is never free but currently you get mixed messages and it seems that there is a culture of luring people in with "free" letting it be impossible to use unless your a programmer and then wanting lots of money for support.

[Karel]

..., ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user.

Windows is made for the masses. Linux is made by engineers, for engineers. They have different goals and, because of that, different results.

[bd139]

I would be quite happy to pay for a desktop version of linux, ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user. No snottiness just make it work and make it easy. The problem is that linux currently is seen as and is for those into programming. My dad can hardly grasp the conceps of windows he would never manage to sort anything out on linux. Once you have a single serious supported platform hardware manufacturers will start to make drivers ani sofware companies will consider it as their go to platform to target their software.

To make it work and make it easy means removing the power. You have to meet the machine half way.

Standard is RHEL. CentOS is a non commercial binary compatible version of RHEL. Vendors certify hardware, software and drivers on it. It's why I'm RHCA on it!

Keysight even certify GoldenGate on it. Typical cert list is as follows:

Redhat Linux RHEL6 (64-bit)
Redhat Linux RHEL7 (64-bit)
SUSE Linux SLES11 (64-bit)

Note no wonky weird or completely open source distributions in here. There's a commercial market too, and you get support from RH, excellent documentation, manuals and support info and a lifecycle of 10 years. Sounds familiar 

No free is never free but currently you get mixed messages and it seems that there is a culture of luring people in with "free" letting it be impossible to use unless your a programmer and then wanting lots of money for support.

Beware all dangling carrots. Some of them are parsnips. I don't like parsnips. Yuck.

[Zero999]

I would be quite happy to pay for a desktop version of linux, ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user. No snottiness just make it work and make it easy. The problem is that linux currently is seen as and is for those into programming. My dad can hardly grasp the conceps of windows he would never manage to sort anything out on linux. Once you have a single serious supported platform hardware manufacturers will start to make drivers ani sofware companies will consider it as their go to platform to target their software.

No free is never free but currently you get mixed messages and it seems that there is a culture of luring people in with "free" letting it be impossible to use unless your a programmer and then wanting lots of money for support.

There are plenty of non-free Linux distributions for non-technical users, which contain additional proprietary features, such as better support for Windows programs and codecs.

I'm hardly a techy person, as far as computers are concerned and have found migrating to Linux, fairly straightforward. Indeed, as far as user interface is concerned, I find KDE easier to use than the Windows 10 desktop and I found it easier to migrate from Windows XP to Linux, than Windows 10.

The major stumbling blocks for most people is driver support for things such as printers and Windows-only software, but fortunately neither of them affect me personally.

[Simon]

..., ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user.

Windows is made for the masses. Linux is made by engineers, for engineers. They have different goals and, because of that, different results.

that is their excuse, fact is they are making a product for themselves which is why for linux to work as an OS for the masses it needs to be made for the masses by someone with some business nouse that is not working on their pet product but but for living. Many of the small niceties I saw in linux before windows. Why have a half cocked control panel, either have one or don't, all graphical interfacing can be replaced with commands, it's called unix, GUI's were introduced for a reason, they make life easier but lots of people like pretending they are clever just because they can remember the commands to do it, yes it's a nice feeling being able to and has it's place but not for the everyday user.

[Simon]

There are plenty of non-free Linux distributions for non-technical users, which contain additional proprietary features, such as better support for Windows programs and codecs.

I'm hardly a techy person, as far as computers are concerned and have found migrating to Linux, fairly straightforward. Indeed, as far as user interface is concerned, I find KDE easier to use than the Windows 10 desktop and I found it easier to migrate from Windows XP to Linux, than Windows 10.

The major stumbling blocks for most people is driver support for things such as printers and Windows-only software, but fortunately neither of them affect me personally.

Which ones? and again it's plural not a single platform so developers will look at it and just continue to support windows based programs. If they are adding their own proprietary stuff onto linux you have an even further divergence of systems to cope with.

[langwadt]

..., ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user.

Windows is made for the masses. Linux is made by engineers, for engineers. They have different goals and, because of that, different results.

that is their excuse, fact is they are making a product for themselves which is why for linux to work as an OS for the masses it needs to be made for the masses by someone with some business nouse that is not working on their pet product but but for living. Many of the small niceties I saw in linux before windows. Why have a half cocked control panel, either have one or don't, all graphical interfacing can be replaced with commands, it's called unix, GUI's were introduced for a reason, they make life easier but lots of people like pretending they are clever just because they can remember the commands to do it, yes it's a nice feeling being able to and has it's place but not for the everyday user.

GUIs make thing seem easier in some cases, but definitely not is all

run this command and you are done is a hell of a lot easier than; click this then click that , then scroll down to option 4, go to third tab, then click options, then then click advanced, then scroll to the bottom and check the box on the left, no the other left ....

[bd139]

GUIs are also useless for automation and automation is freedom from slavery.

[Simon]

Yes but the average user that wants to change one thing on their machine prefers a GUI. Every GUI will relate to command line actions anyway, it is not either/or it is just a case of making it more accessible. But Linux was never about that, it's an underground thing that has found it's way into some technical circles. Take every engineering company in the world, how many are running Linux, now take out the software companies, baring special usu you will find no Linux. Where we work we struggle with windows god knows what it would look like with Linux. My comment to the IT guy the other side of the country today was "no, you deal with it, I have work to do".

[apis]

The GUI in Linux is a standalone application, not part of the operating system. You have to be able to configure everything that runs without a GUI without a GUI (e.g. a webserver). The configuration files are stored in standardised locations and you simply edit them to configure things. (You can even edit them with a GUI editor if you like). It's simple and it works well.

GUI applications can usually be configured within the application just like in windows (Edit -> Preferences).

Say one of the big distributors like Canonical (Ubuntu) came up with some sort of GUI control panel for everything, then each developer of every application would have to write an interface for it, and they probably wouldn't be particularly interested in the extra work when there is little/no benefit. GNU/Linux (open source software) isn't built from the top down, you can't enforce a standard the same way Apple/MS can.

(EDIT: For doing basic things (browsing the web, reading emails, word processing, etc) you don't have to touch the command line at all, Ubuntu even has a nice GUI installer these days.)

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

It will be bad even for the Git itself, because Microsoft always EEE.

Only if people actually keep using GitHub, or Microsoft's forthcoming fork of the git protocols and utilities.

That, hear, hear! Says an ex-user of Skype, LinkedIn, Wünderlist, Nokia, and soon github too. Hope git survives M$'s EEE kiss of death.

[Marco]

ideally a single distro that becomes the standard for the average non technical user.

It's not about the distro, it's about QA of updates on the various supported hardware configurations and trying to make sure the system is idiot proof 99% of the time.

The only Linux platform which does both are Chromebooks. Which soon will be able to run Linux apps by the way, so there's that. It's just a shame they datamine you.

[Karel]

... for linux to work as an OS for the masses it needs to be made for the masses ...

Please no, I don't want the masses to use Linux. The day that happens I'll switch back to windows...

One of the many things I like about Linux, is that the "technical level/education" of the average user is higher than the average joe.

For me, Linux desktop usage should never reach more than, let's say, 5% of the desktop market.

[Naguissa]

... for linux to work as an OS for the masses it needs to be made for the masses ...

Please no, I don't want the masses to use Linux. The day that happens I'll switch back to windows...

One of the many things I like about Linux, is that the "technical level/education" of the average user is higher than the average joe.

For me, Linux desktop usage should never reach more than, let's say, 5% of the desktop market.

It's not really true.

For fixing issues or edge cases, yes, some technical knoledge is needed.

But as far as I've found, non-technical users learns faster how to use Linux compared to Windows, if they didn't used a computer before (or in decades). Even some regular users adapt faster to Linux than to Windows 10, only need few basic concepts as the store.

[apis]

But as far as I've found, non-technical users learns faster how to use Linux compared to Windows, if they didn't used a computer before (or in decades). Even some regular users adapt faster to Linux than to Windows 10, only need few basic concepts as the store.

True, it's usually people who are used to windows who find linux difficult. Suddenly things don't work the same way they used to, and you have to learn how to do basic things over again. It frustrating to have to crawl when you are used to running. It's like learning a new language, your native language seems easy while foreign languages seem strange and difficult.

[Monkeh]

Nice to see this has turned into yet another clicky browser vs competent operator thread rather than one about Github.

Give it a rest.

[Naguissa]

Nice to see this has turned into yet another clicky browser vs competent operator thread rather than one about Github.

Give it a rest.

You're true...

About this point, I've created my GitLab account. Now I have to slowly move all my repos to that.


I'm tired of MS EEE usual tactic, and I'm not going to wait until it's very late and I have to migrate everithing in a hurry, I prefer to advance this (usual with MS) scenario.

[Simon]

... for linux to work as an OS for the masses it needs to be made for the masses ...

Please no, I don't want the masses to use Linux. The day that happens I'll switch back to windows...

One of the many things I like about Linux, is that the "technical level/education" of the average user is higher than the average joe.

For me, Linux desktop usage should never reach more than, let's say, 5% of the desktop market.

why the snobbery? I'm not saying that linux distributions should dissapere, only that for the average user that just wants to do work a system that works and has software vendor support would be just as happy to pay for it as they do windows. Yes for email and browsing any linux will do. i need to run specific programs: solid edge, CS, and if i go through my computer and list all software I bet not much of it is available for linux.

If you could convert the average office to Linux with little to no effort required by the average user to use different programs to do the same thing or the same programs on linux what is the problem. I have and ex 3D CAD user volunteering at my talking newspaper. He's good at audio editing too yet does not have a clue about the folder structure principles despite using a computer for much of his working life......

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Hey, Simon, stay on topic. You have been warned. :-)

[ me ducks and runs ]

[Simon]

Hey, Simon, stay on topic. You have been warned. :-)

[ me ducks and runs ]

Well MS has bought Github, take it or leave it and go elsewhere. No monopoly is bad which is why I'd like to see viable alternatives to all of their products.

[Monkeh]

Hey, Simon, stay on topic. You have been warned. :-)

[ me ducks and runs ]

Well MS has bought Github, take it or leave it and go elsewhere. No monopoly is bad which is why I'd like to see viable alternatives to all of their products.

That doesn't make Windows vs Linux the topic. Or this 'discussion' any more original and valuable than in the last 20 threads it took over.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

I'm going lo leave, that's for sure! Already left Skype, WunderList and LinkedIn and will do it again. Needless to say, I'm not a Windozes user and never ever have been.

[apis]

i need to run specific programs: solid edge, CS, and if i go through my computer and list all software I bet not much of it is available for linux.

My favourite Linux software isn't available on windows either, but a lot of professional applications needed for work are windows only. The companies doesn't want to make linux versions because there isn't enough linux users. There isn't enough linux users because there isn't enough software...

He's good at audio editing too yet does not have a clue about the folder structure principles despite using a computer for much of his working life......

i.e. he's used to windows and the apps he use. If he had to learn linux CAD programs and audio editing software he would have to start over again.

(Sorry: my last off-topic post  )