Moving to California after Graduation. No job lined up yet. Tips?

[metrologist]

Hunger. Save up for it... prepare to get used to it... Heat and clean clothes are over rated...

[mmagin]

I certainly don't mind living here, but wouldn't recommend moving here without either a job offer in hand or a friend's couch to crash on for free.  You're going to burn through a lot of money quickly.  And any larger employer (or employer that's drowning in venture capital money) would probably be just fine with flying you out for an interview if the phone screen goes well and paying some amount for relocation if they hire you.

[bitseeker]

You may want to check out some cost of living calculators to get a sense for various places you might want to live/work in.

For example, this CNN Money calculator,  based on 2015 data, illustrates what folks are talking about:

from Richmond, VA to Los Angeles/Long Beach

    Groceries: 13%more
    Housing: 141%more
    Utilities: 6%more
    Transportation: 38%more
    Health Care: 6%more

Overall, you need to make approximately 50% more salary in LA to afford the same lifestyle as Richmond.

The Silicon Valley (generalized as San Francisco) is even more expensive, particularly for food and housing:

    Groceries: 35%more
    Housing: 263%more
    Utilities: 2%less
    Transportation: 35%more
    Health Care: 14%more

Overall, you need to make approximately 80% more than in Richmond.

As mmagin said, you don't necessarily have to be living where you want to work in order to get a job there. Medium to large companies are not strangers to phone interviews and flying out candidates who make it to the last stages of the interview process. So, do as much as you can before you depart.

[Back2Volts]

Can anyone give me some insight on steps to take, do's-don'ts,...?

I guess there have been plenty of don'ts, mostly "don't move to California"

For the do's...   I have a question:   Do you have student loans?   Have you checked how much you should be paying as soon as you start working?   If you do have loans, I would say "go get a job that will allow you to gain good experience, while paying off your student loans as quick as possible".   (I doubt that will happen in California.)

[brucehoult]

Amazing how many people have been recommending against California!

I'm from New Zealand, but I've worked in Seattle and Chicago as well as Silicon Valley. When I was job hunting a couple of years ago (after being back in NZ for a few years) I was getting good nibbles from California companies and both Amazon and Google were at the point of flying me from NZ to USA for on-site interviews when Samsung R&D Russia offered me a six month remote work contract based just on a skype interview, so I took that. That went well and they offered me a permanent job in Moscow with a visa that's essentially identical to the US H1-B (i.e. fixed to one company, 3 years with one 3 year renewal, after that either get residency/Green card or else leave the county for a year minimum).

It seemed interesting, so I went with that, and I haven't regretted it!

The salary is internationally competitive, but taxes are only 13%. Apartments and restaurants are very similar to NZ prices (far less than California) and everything else is much cheaper: Uber (or Gett, Yandex .. all have apps), buses&subway, internet, mobile. Cheap 2-3 hour flights to anything from Turkey to Italy to Switzerland to Paris/London to Norway. Spain a bit further. I'm the only foreigner in the company, but everyone speaks English and all the work is in English. If you go into a random shop or cafe in central Moscow it's about 50/50 whether they'll speak English -- more than one person there and the odds only go up. And if not ... there's google translate.

No one has *ever* been upset or rude that I don't speak Russian, or used a translator. Unless I tell them I'm from NZ I  suppose most people assume I'm American or possibly English. I've never seen any anti-foreigner things at all. On the contrary, everyone has friends or relatives who live in the USA, they maybe visited them, everyone who can afford it goes on vacations in Europe. People in Moscow and  St Petersburg, at least, feel they should be part of Europe and it's only their stupid government that prevents them.

When I moved here it took me two days to find a 580 sq ft (54 m^2) nice modern apartment two minutes walk from work for US$960 a month (NZ$315/wk). Sadly, the owner recently decided to sell it. Now I'm in a nicer 830 sq ft (77 m^2) apartment in the same building for US$1140 (NZ$375/wk). Water and electricity add about $25 a month (winter heating is included in the rent, so electricity is only cooking, lights, computer...), and internet is US$11/month for 100/100 Mbps unlimited. I have 3 GB/month on the iPhone for US$6. If you go to town in a good (but not top) restaurant you can spend $35 - $40 (NZ$50 - 60) including salad, main, dessert, beer/cider, coffee. Or you can spend half that. Uber is 90c pickup, 15c/km plus 15c/min ($1.75 minimum trip). A single metro/bus/tram ride is 60c, a 2nd bus/tram ride (not metro) within 90 minutes is 30c, extra bus/tram within that 90 min are free.

Coming from NZ it sucks that there aren't mountains or beaches near. You can fly to the Europe ones easily enough. The winter is also a bit rough, though no worse than midwest USA or Canada. All the apartments and offices and shopping centers are heated like crazy in winter -- 24 - 25 C is the norm. Too much.

Don't mean to be propaganda here ... just agreeing with the "I've worked in California and a lot of things about it suck" general sentiment. There are other places.

[Nusa]

I'm not anti-California, I'm anti-smog. That's only a serious problem in a couple parts of California, LA in partcular.

Otherwise, the cost of housing is the biggest issue for newcomers, particularly unemployed ones. If your salary is large enough to compensate for that, then that's not a problem. I orginally moved to California in 1993 because I literally doubled my salary when I did so. But I got the job BEFORE I moved. And they paid for the move.

On the utilities front, the price comparisions don't factor in climate, so it's actually much better than they say. Sure, the cost of heating and cooling is high in California, but the NEED for heating and cooling is lower, at least if you're in a coastal area. My electric and gas bill in the San Diego area about 2 miles from the ocean averages about $40/month with a slight spike in January and February when I turn on the heat.

[brucehoult]

Otherwise, the cost of housing is the biggest issue for newcomers, particularly unemployed ones. If your salary is large enough to compensate for that, then that's not a problem. I orginally moved to California in 1993 because I literally doubled my salary when I did so. But I got the job BEFORE I moved. And they paid for the move.

Between the taxes and the housing costs I'd want $200k to move from Moscow to California, minimum. Better $250k to make up for or avoid the sucky commute. Oh, and six weeks vacation pa.

If that's on offer then ... ok.

[timothyaag]

Silicon Valley, where the jobs are, is somewhat north of LA.  Every major electronics and software house in the world has a building in Silicon Valley.  Well, at least the major players...

LA and SV have horrific housing prices and the traffic in both places is unbelievable.  When I took a job in LA, I started driving from the office in a circular pattern until I found something I could afford. The rent was cheap and the commute was just a couple of miles.  I left LA 40 years ago and I'm not going back!

Take more software courses.  The job prospects for EE's is pretty grim while CS is looking pretty good:

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

You can drill down in these web pages and find out where the jobs are located (across the US) and how much they pay, by region.  You will find that Silicon Valley pays well and has growth potential.

I have a family member that works at Apple and he told me there are a bunch of new software grads making 80-90K and living in their cars. They can't afford to live nearby, and use Apples showers and (awesome) food court, so they're finding it worth it to live chaotically to secure that career path for themselves. It's crazy what people will do to have Apple or Google on their resume.

[IanB]

I have a family member that works at Apple and he told me there are a bunch of new software grads making 80-90K and living in their cars. They can't afford to live nearby, and use Apples showers and (awesome) food court, so they're finding it worth it to live chaotically to secure that career path for themselves. It's crazy what people will do to have Apple or Google on their resume.

I think there may be a bit more to it than this. A salary of $90k should result in a net monthly income of about $5k after taxes and deductions. I believe it should be possible to find a one bedroom apartment in silicon valley for about $2.5k/mo, which would leave $2k or more as disposable income. You can live on that. Maybe not like a king, but you can certainly afford a reasonable standard of living. So I'm not sure the decision to live in a car is really driven by necessity, maybe more a case of reluctance to spend, or maybe a preference to spend money on other things.

[Richard Crowley]

https://youtu.be/10hRo2XEiKI

https://youtu.be/3oygW4qtBIM

https://youtu.be/YLbnvwKZUGw

[timothyaag]

I have a family member that works at Apple and he told me there are a bunch of new software grads making 80-90K and living in their cars. They can't afford to live nearby, and use Apples showers and (awesome) food court, so they're finding it worth it to live chaotically to secure that career path for themselves. It's crazy what people will do to have Apple or Google on their resume.

I think there may be a bit more to it than this. A salary of $90k should result in a net monthly income of about $5k after taxes and deductions. I believe it should be possible to find a one bedroom apartment in silicon valley for about $2.5k/mo, which would leave $2k or more as disposable income. You can live on that. Maybe not like a king, but you can certainly afford a reasonable standard of living. So I'm not sure the decision to live in a car is really driven by necessity, maybe more a case of reluctance to spend, or maybe a preference to spend money on other things.

That's interesting, I hadn't investigated what he said. $2.5k a month on rent, for a 1BR, has got to sting. I don't know if I'd find $2.5k of value difference between sleeping in the car and a 1BR either.

[mmagin]

Silicon Valley, where the jobs are, is somewhat north of LA.  Every major electronics and software house in the world has a building in Silicon Valley.  Well, at least the major players...

LA and SV have horrific housing prices and the traffic in both places is unbelievable.  When I took a job in LA, I started driving from the office in a circular pattern until I found something I could afford. The rent was cheap and the commute was just a couple of miles.  I left LA 40 years ago and I'm not going back!

Take more software courses.  The job prospects for EE's is pretty grim while CS is looking pretty good:

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

You can drill down in these web pages and find out where the jobs are located (across the US) and how much they pay, by region.  You will find that Silicon Valley pays well and has growth potential.

I have a family member that works at Apple and he told me there are a bunch of new software grads making 80-90K and living in their cars. They can't afford to live nearby, and use Apples showers and (awesome) food court, so they're finding it worth it to live chaotically to secure that career path for themselves. It's crazy what people will do to have Apple or Google on their resume.

Hmm.  I started working in the SF Bay Area (doing software work) after college in a rather bad job market at a salary, which adjusted according to the CPI would fall at the higher end of that range today.  If it hadn't been for the fact that apartments were cheap and commuting was easy due to the fact that nearly a million people had left the area, it would have really sucked.

It is certainly nice to live somewhere there actually are a decent variety of jobs though.  It helps avoid the problem experienced by so many people a generation ago when they lived in a town with one big manufacturing plant that closed up.

But I personally wouldn't move to a high cost of living area on my own expense, except maybe in the case I was running my own successful consulting business or something.

[james_s]

That's interesting, I hadn't investigated what he said. $2.5k a month on rent, for a 1BR, has got to sting. I don't know if I'd find $2.5k of value difference between sleeping in the car and a 1BR either.

Man that's just crazy. I pay less than that for a 15 year mortgage on a 3 bedroom house and I consider my area to be insanely expensive already. That said, houses around me have doubled in value since I bought mine back in 2004 and I don't see how this is sustainable. It's looking a whole lot like the period before the big bust several years back and I suspect another huge crash is coming. They never fixed most of the issues that led to the last collapse.

I'm fortunate enough to work in tech myself, but I don't see how anyone working ordinary jobs can afford to live anywhere around here. We can't all have tech jobs.

[rx8pilot]

I think there may be a bit more to it than this. A salary of $90k should result in a net monthly income of about $5k after taxes and deductions. I believe it should be possible to find a one bedroom apartment in silicon valley for about $2.5k/mo, which would leave $2k or more as disposable income. You can live on that. Maybe not like a king, but you can certainly afford a reasonable standard of living. So I'm not sure the decision to live in a car is really driven by necessity, maybe more a case of reluctance to spend, or maybe a preference to spend money on other things.

50% of your net income on rent SUCKS! The balance is not disposable income unless you never eat, have a car or pay for public transportation, wear clothes, etc....you end up in a month-to-month situation for the most part. If you lose your job, you have very little or nothing to support yourself until you find another $90k job. You will have a roof over your head, food, clothes, and a tiny handful of social dollars left over. Lets say you are burning $4k/mo on the absolute basics and you lose your job. It takes 4 months to get to the next job - how do you save up $16k just to keep your basic life together during that time? If you are frugal enough to have saved $16k in that situation - do you really want it to be blown out the window in 4 months? Hell no.

If you are making $200k+, it is more palatable but you are still going to be in a rental situation where you build no equity. If you live a very modest life and go for absolute maximum savings, you may be able to get into a house after 3-4 years or so. At least then your mortgage is buying some equity in a tangible asset.

Some people are cool with all of this (obviously) - but it gets old real fast when all you do is work extremely hard for food and shelter. I have already constructed my exit strategy and can hardly wait to get the F out of California.

[Gregg]

The quickest way to bankruptcy is to move to an expensive part of California without a real job offer.   Try to find something close to where the cost of living is something you can afford on an entry level position of any local medium to large company and try to endear yourself to everyone at the job; even people you can’t stand.  Always give a little more than is asked and take every opportunity to take all training offered.  Keep notes along the way to include in your resume.   Within a couple of years, you can have a resume that will allow you to find a job in California that will at least pay your expenses.
Try to stay away from temp agencies as they take over 50% for their managing your meager existence and in return give you less than zero job security. 
Always try to make good contacts and never burn your bridges.  It isn’t as much what you know as who you know that will land you the good job.
When an opportunity comes to jump to another company at a higher position, take it, even if the new company is a little shaky.  I have known people that jumped form big company to small company that a few years later was gobbled up by the big company they had left and they ended up way above the co-workers they had left behind in the big company.