NASA to go back to the Moon

[cdev]

Some people view it as their calling in life, figuring out ever more creative and "efficient" (really inefficient) ways to snatch money from taxpayers and funnel it to MNCs or into their own coffers. The masters of this of course are the energy, banking, pharmacutical and many other industries and the current apex of their skills- the climax predator -ace money hijacking system is the new practice known as ISDS. Countries can be turned into properties of MNCs like magic with ISDS. For example, look at the 50 billion Euro award in the Yukos case.

Soon, these awards will stretch into the trillions of dollars. Investors have to be protected, after all. Nothing else is important. Make the planet starve. Shock therapy.

Check out italaw.com if you want to see what I am talking about. But prepare to be alternately appalled and shocked at how much money is being wasted. Basically everything we think its government's jobs to do has become a means of making them pay MNCs millions or billions of dollars,

cdev, I agree. If the rest of the world knew what the UK was really like they'd be shocked.

Most of the money spent 'on space' can be spent again, they don't really pack the rockets with money and send it off. 

The problem with space is that its not a waste of money at all. Uncontrolled, random magical new knowledge is created outside of corporate control and of uncertain provenance. MNCs see that as tantamount to expropriation -  like a theft from them.

[woody]

There is the thought of "saving" the human race from extinction by colonizing other planets but it's really not saving much. Even if we do colonize other places it's not going to help the population of earth in some kind of doomsday event, only a tiny fraction of the population could ever be carried off the planet.

Ah, help is on its way 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/alien-asteroid-object-space-oumuamua-seti-breakthrough-listen-proof-extraterrestrial-a8105396.html

[nctnico]

At the risk of turning this into a political discussion, a few months of "defense" is as expensive as the entire NASA budget ever. It's not exactly going to make a relevant difference going to the Moon again.

That's the gigantic elephant in the room when it comes to any debate involving budget. I support our military and I think it's an important thing to have, but the scale of the spending is absurd. We don't need to be spending trillions of dollars getting involved in wars all over the world, we know we're capable of ramping up in a hurry when needed, we proved that in WWII. Unfortunately we never really ramped back down.

Scaremongering the general public into believing there is an enemy at the gates is a very good tactic for politicians to keep the focus away from the real problems. It is no coincidence Trump is spending time on making North Korea the 'new enemy du jour' now IS has been (almost) dealth with. Where does an anti missile system go? Yes, into space!

[Mr. Scram]

Sure, just send Werner Von Braun and his German colleagues back to Germany and delete all his knowledge from your space programs and we'll call it quits.

Be sure to also include any knowledge of supersonic aircraft and any re-entry made possible because of it. The Space Shuttle is an example that comes to mind. The first supersonic aircraft X-1 was basically the US version of the British Miles M.52 and would have never flown without the knowledge the US gained from the British.

Obviously, international collaboration wasn't a strong suit of the US even back then. The US agreed to exchange supersonic research data, but reneged when it was the turn of the US to provide data to the Brits. It's not unlikely the US didn't have much to share. Instead, the US took all they learned and ran with it. Is that how this "without anybody's help" thing works, tweaking a design that's nearly complete and then claiming the achievement for yourself?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_M.52#Prototypes

[Back2Volts]

According to theories of some close advisors, the moon exploration could be made with quite a low budget.   Just turn on the lights and start filming again   

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2016/10/19/top-trump-adviser-roger-stone-moon-landing-video-was-hoax-filmed-new-jersey/213921

[tszaboo]

The people behind this, clearly want fewer scientists, not more!

I'm just wondering, if you could turn a buck-boost DC-DC converter discussion into a political debate about a some shadow government, with a wall of text. Because so far every other discussion with you seems to turn to that.

[IanMacdonald]

Exploration for Mar-a-Luna.
  BTW - How far does a golf ball travel on the moon? No need for woods is there...
 

Been done. Alan Shepard, Apollo 14.

Though, the reason we haven't been back is that the Russians showed us only a short while after Apollo 11, with Lunokhod, that even a relatively basic robot could do the job better at a fraction of the cost. The logistics of providing for humans on the moon for several months of exploration would be colossal. For a robot it's just enough energy and maybe an occasional oilchange. Figuratively speaking.

[coppice]

Though, the reason we haven't been back is that the Russians showed us only a short while after Apollo 11, with Lunokhod, that even a relatively basic robot could do the job better at a fraction of the cost. The logistics of providing for humans on the moon for several months of exploration would be colossal. For a robot it's just enough energy and maybe an occasional oilchange. Figuratively speaking.

The reason we haven't been back to the moon has nothing to do with Lunokhod. Lunokhod showed robots to be a better solution, but this turned out to be irrelevant. The changing political environment meant no country saw merit is spending substantial sums of money on any form of lunar exploration. India and China have done the minimum needed to demonstrate their technical prowess. Apart from that, people have largely ignored the moon.

[james_s]

Well we've already been to the moon, we've shown we can do it, we know what's there, a bunch of dust and rocks, along with artifacts we've left behind. What more is really to be gained by going back to the moon? It's a bit like climbing Mt Everest, it isn't the grand achievement it once was, and if we go there enough times it will turn into the same dump littered with garbage, abandoned equipment and corpses that Everest is.

[Mr. Scram]

Well we've already been to the moon, we've shown we can do it, we know what's there, a bunch of dust and rocks, along with artifacts we've left behind. What more is really to be gained by going back to the moon? It's a bit like climbing Mt Everest, it isn't the grand achievement it once was, and if we go there enough times it will turn into the same dump littered with garbage, abandoned equipment and corpses that Everest is.

Well we've already been to the bottom of the ocean, we've shown we can do it, we know what's there, a bunch of fish and rocks, along with trash we've left behind. What more is really to be gained by going back to the bottom of the ocean?

We have turned Earth inside out for centuries and still learn new things about it every day. Even if you just take things into account that aren't unique to Earth within our solar sytem. Every celestial body we visit turns out to be much more complicated and complex than we initially thought. I can't imagine why anyone would think we're done exploring and learning about the Moon. We know nothing, and we prove we know nothing every time we bother to look at something a bit closer.

[SkyMaster]

How can the US possibly justify the fact that we have to hitchhike to our own space station?  That's absurd!

United States do not own the International Space Station:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/International_Space_Station/International_Space_Station_legal_framework

"The International Space Station is a co-operative program between Europe, United States, Russia, Canada, and Japan"

 

[Mr. Scram]

How can the US possibly justify the fact that we have to hitchhike to our own space station?  That's absurd!

United States do not own the International Space Station:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/International_Space_Station/International_Space_Station_legal_framework

"The International Space Station is a co-operative program between Europe, United States, Russia, Canada, and Japan"

 

That's what I was getting at in one of my previous posts. It's not the USS, it's the ISS. Initally it was intended to be an exclusive US thing, but sharing the bill seemed to be a better idea.

[Red Squirrel]

They should build a wall prototype on the moon, then fly Trump so he can personally see it.  And leave him there. 

Seriously though I think this is good news, though I guess it's kind of a touchy subject when you consider where else the money can go.  Hopefully they don't just send people there for fun but can be given the chance to actually lay out a proper scientific mission such as things they want to study.  It's not just the surface, but the journey.  There is more tech available now than there was last time so more sensory data can be obtained.  Radiation, that kind of stuff.

At the risk of turning this into a political discussion, a few months of "defense" is as expensive as the entire NASA budget ever. It's not exactly going to make a relevant difference going to the Moon again.

Oh wow did not realize that, but really not that surprised now that I think about it. 

[rdl]

NASA's entire 2018 budget is under $20 billion which is less than 0.5% of the total federal budget. The Department of Defense burns through that much money in less than two weeks.

The money spent by NASA on space exploration is a drop in the bucket when compared to the entire US federal budget and it's probably worth it for the entertainment value alone.

[MrW0lf]

http://theantimedia.org/ai-fake-videos/

[Mr. Scram]

http://theantimedia.org/ai-fake-videos/

What? You're going to try to make it into another dowsing thread?

[MrW0lf]

What? You're going to try to make it into another dowsing thread?

Now if you put it like that it would be fairly fuel efficient to take 2 light wires to the moon instead of ground radar They not going to drink pee there are they

[tszaboo]

Well we've already been to the moon, we've shown we can do it, we know what's there, a bunch of dust and rocks, along with artifacts we've left behind. What more is really to be gained by going back to the moon? It's a bit like climbing Mt Everest, it isn't the grand achievement it once was, and if we go there enough times it will turn into the same dump littered with garbage, abandoned equipment and corpses that Everest is.

Nobody had sex on the moon. Until that is done, science has to be made, and billions shall be sacrificed.

NASA's entire 2018 budget is under $20 billion which is less than 0.5% of the total federal budget. The Department of Defense burns through that much money in less than two weeks.

The money spent by NASA on space exploration is a drop in the bucket when compared to the entire US federal budget and it's probably worth it for the entertainment value alone.

NASA qoutes, that for  10 billion, they could make a permanent outpost on the moon. I think that is a bargain, that we should take.

BTW, fun fact:
https://sites.google.com/site/issinspire/home/design/modules
There are 3 modules on the ISS, which are made by the USA alone. There are 6 which are Russian alone.

There seems to be a 2nd space race coming, now with more participants. 

[Mr. Scram]

NASA qoutes, that for  10 billion, they could make a permanent outpost on the moon. I think that is a bargain, that we should take.

BTW, fun fact:
https://sites.google.com/site/issinspire/home/design/modules
There are 3 modules on the ISS, which are made by the USA alone. There are 6 which are Russian alone.

There seems to be a 2nd space race coming, now with more participants.

The second space race is in full swing in Asia. The third is coming, maybe?

[3roomlab]

A draft copy of the order declares that
“the United States will lead the return of humans to the Moon for long-term exploration and utilization,
followed by human missions to Mars and other destinations.”

"and utlilization", what kind of utilization? 

[glarsson]

Mining operations. Like rare earth minerals, helium 3 and cheese. Lots of cheese.

[RoGeorge]

So, NASA finally decided to fake the fake moon landing? 

[cdev]

The fact that we Americans think the money spent on NASA is much larger than it is, relative to the entire Federal budget and especially the black hole of DOD spending, is tribute to the high amounts of value spending money on NASA consistently buys us. But, money is spent far more wisely when its spent as part of a process that attempts to get something done, other than spending money. Necessity is the mother of invention.

NASA's entire 2018 budget is under $20 billion which is less than 0.5% of the total federal budget. The Department of Defense burns through that much money in less than two weeks.

The money spent by NASA on space exploration is a drop in the bucket when compared to the entire US federal budget and it's probably worth it for the entertainment value alone.

[firewalker]

What about finding a cure for cancer first !? Idiots ! 

Lets cure every disease! And then? The planet is already overpopulated? We will need colonies elsewhere!

Alexander.

[rstofer]

How can the US possibly justify the fact that we have to hitchhike to our own space station?  That's absurd!

United States do not own the International Space Station:

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/International_Space_Station/International_Space_Station_legal_framework

"The International Space Station is a co-operative program between Europe, United States, Russia, Canada, and Japan"

 

I have always thought of it as an international cooperation thing.  A feel-good project initially involving Canda, Japan and the US.

The US could have funded the ISS without international help if we had the will to do so.

The entire project has cost about $100B over 13 years as of 2011 or about $8B per year.  Had we wanted to do so, we could have built it from pocket change with no outside help.  We spill more money than that!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/solarsystem/space_missions/international_space_station

Early planning began in 1982 and Russia's involvement didn't start until '93 during the Clinton years

http://iss.jaxa.jp/iss/history/index_e.html