Need Advice: Suicidal lab employee vs Fluke HV source

[TAMHAN]

Hello Folks,
now I need some advice from the quorum. One of my employees - a diligent office worker who also does some basic electronics work (keep the decades in order, sort components and stuff) is known to be suicidal when angered or when wanting to whore attention - in fact, she once tried to vault off our old office's balcony if I didnt manage to restrain her in time (15m high  ).

Now, as seen in the BSW thread on the Auction, I am the proud owner of a Fluke 3000V 30mA power source which, um, can kill you dead. I urgently need it for my process computer project, do to the Human Body Equivalent tests. This means that I will need it once every six months or so at maximum.

Now, my question is - do you guys have any idea to solve my problem?

P.S. Firing the suicidal lab hand is not an option for moral reasons.
P.S.2 This is not a joke. I am willing to provide Dave with proof documents.

Edit to add poll.

[Cerebus]

I'm voting for keyed access.

You have a moral, and in most places a legal, duty for the safety of your employees. If you have something hazardous in your workplace it's your duty to make sure that employees don't harm themselves with it. Normally you can do this just by instructing people in the dangers involved and insisting that only properly qualified folks are required or permitted work with the hazardous items but it is also your duty to enforce those provisions. If you can't enforce them adequately by instruction them you must enforce them by technical means (e.g. keys and locks). Certainly under UK health and safety legislation you can be prosecuted for failing to adequately enforce safe working practices (e.g. It's not enough to just tell your staff NOT to do something, you must also make sure that they don't.)

[Jeroen3]

You might want a camera system for liability reasons.

[PartialDischarge]

believe me she is not suicidal, she just wants attention. People who do suicide dont say anything to anyone.
Anyway Id go for the keyswitch.
So your not selling it ??
For hbm just charge a capacitor with a magiclick no need to be that precise 

[AF6LJ]

Your problem is easy, you treat that worker like a five year old girl.
You put the power supply behind Lock and Key and You keep the Key.
Nobody but you has access to it, you do not leave it unattended.

It is really that simple.

[edpalmer42]

My first thought is to put a big red DANGER label on it.  Something like:  DANGER, FOR USE BY AUTHORIZED PERSONNAL ONLY.  Adults are expected to have a brain or two in their heads.  I can't believe that any court would find you responsible for injury to an adult that ignored a sign like that.  If you really want to get the employee's attention, the sign should say that they'll be fired if they touch it without authorization.

If that's not acceptable, then I'd modify the unit to include a key switch and keep the keys under close control.  The locked door is another possibility if you can keep her out of the room, but if it's in the lab you probably don't want to have to pull the power supply out of the locked room every time you want to use it.

Ed

[Marco]

Put the fuse in a locked cabinet/drawer.

[CJay]

believe me she is not suicidal, she just wants attention. People who do suicide dont say anything to anyone.
Anyway Id go for the keyswitch.
So your not selling it ??
For hbm just charge a capacitor with a magiclick no need to be that precise 

Sorry, that's a pile of crap. At best it's ignorant, at worst it's a bloody dangerous myth to propagate.

[continuo]

If she is really serious she will find a thousand ways to commit suicide, she doesn't need no Fluke HV supply for that 

vote ("nothing");

[PartialDischarge]

believe me she is not suicidal, she just wants attention. People who do suicide dont say anything to anyone.
Anyway Id go for the keyswitch.
So your not selling it ??
For hbm just charge a capacitor with a magiclick no need to be that precise 

Sorry, that's a pile of crap. At best it's ignorant, at worst it's a bloody dangerous myth to propagate.

Actually you are the ignorant (at best), and there's nothing to propagate here.

Many people who commit suicide do so without letting on they are thinking about it or planning it,” says Dr. Michael Miller, assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.
At best people who are suicidal give "hints" but they don't openly say it.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/suicide-often-not-preceded-by-warnings-201209245331

[vodka]

our old office's balcony if I didnt manage to restrain her in time (15m high  ).

I for curiosity i had left her to jump

You have a huge problem with this worker, and the problem is that the others employees will follow her.

Firing the suicidal lab hand is not an option for moral reasons.

Why can you fire her ?

And Why didn't you call to police or medical when she tried to suicide?

You have two solutions: you fire to her or you request to Job Ministery* or to SS* an psychiatric evaluation for her

* i don't know the laboral legislation on his country

[CJay]

believe me she is not suicidal, she just wants attention. People who do suicide dont say anything to anyone.
Anyway Id go for the keyswitch.
So your not selling it ??
For hbm just charge a capacitor with a magiclick no need to be that precise 

Sorry, that's a pile of crap. At best it's ignorant, at worst it's a bloody dangerous myth to propagate.

Actually you are the ignorant (at best), and there's nothing to propagate here.

Many people who commit suicide do so without letting on they are thinking about it or planning it,” says Dr. Michael Miller, assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.
At best people who are suicidal give "hints" but they don't openly say it.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/suicide-often-not-preceded-by-warnings-201209245331

And suicide is often preceded by warnings and discussion, so your initial assertion that people who talk about it aren't going to do it is crap.

Please don't make sweeping generalisations about something so serious, I have lost one close friend and a relative to suicide, both of whom had talked openly about it and been in counseling.

It is a myth that people who talk about and threaten suicide don't do it.

Some do.

Some do it by accident when they go too far in their attention seeking but they are still just as dead.

[rsjsouza]

I agree with the collective suggestions:
- Use a key (or keys) that protect the equipment from unauthorized use
- Use a camera to identify potential unauthorized use of the equipment.
- Label the surrounding area appropriately:
  - Danger and high voltage signs that match your department of labor and/or safety guidelines
  - Labels that state only authorized personnel can operate the machine under penalty of termination. I would make sure to leave a contact e-mail if a person needs access (never a phone, but a traceable e-mail). 
  - Labels that state tampering with the protection mechanism is void under penalty of termination.
  - Labels that state the area is under surveillance 24/7

Perhaps I forgot something, but I would definitely cover the bases with the stuff above (maybe I have been living in the US for too long...)

[steverino]

Ignoring the sad human aspect to this, do you really think a suicidal person is going to choose a HV power supply to do the deed?  Are you going to put anti tamper (childproof) devices on all your electrical outlets?  There's a gazillion ways to do oneself in.  I would not worry about it.

[nctnico]

Like others already pointed out: there are many ways to end one's life so being overly worried about a HV power supply isn't going to help the bigger issue. After all you can't ban certain songs from R Kelly from the radio    Still I'd keep such a dangerous piece of equipment disconnected in a cabinet.

[Jay_Diddy_B]

Hi,

I would consider some modifications to the power supply.

1) Replace the on/off toggle switch with a key switch and hiding the key.

2) Adding a high value series resistor inside the unit. For the HBM testing you have to charge a 100pF capacitor.
A  100 Meg resistor gives you a 10ms time constant, and limits the current to 3kV/100E6 = 30uA (which is probably safe).

This would also protect you from accidental contact.

3) Make sure you have warning labels on the equipment like:

qualified people only

At one place I worked we had a 'lone worker rule'. You needed to have buddy qualified in CPR in sight and sound of you for some operations.

Jay_Diddy_B

[brabus]

My two cents.

Forget the high voltage power supply. Your company needs a good psychologist and a good lawyer.

[rich]

...
Certainly under UK health and safety legislation you can be prosecuted for failing to adequately enforce safe working practices (e.g. It's not enough to just tell your staff NOT to do something, you must also make sure that they don't.)

Would 'adequate enforcement' really extend to the OP's situation?  If the intent is to self-harm or suicide then that is beyond safe working practices and into wilful freestyle abuse of equipment.

There certainly is a responsibility to all in the lab (employees, visitors, cleaning contractors etc.) to make sure this new piece of kit can't harm anyone by accident, but treating this person differently doesn't make sense to me.

[hans]

I voted for the key option.

I'm somewhat amazed the PSU already doesn't have one if it's really that dangerous.
I mean, laser equipment often has key interlocks, and what will do that.. only make you blind for the rest of your (then) miserable life?

I wouldn't store it away in some private location; because one day you will figure out you need it but it's not around. OTOH if you only use it for planned tests, you'll likely know when it's going to be used.
However a key should allow anyone being a tad silly ("Ooh, what does this button do?" - Dexter's lab) being hurt.


Anyhow, also consult a doctor to let her see a psychologist. There is plenty of cognitive therapy and medication available for people that go suicidal when their present state of mind is not that good. Imho that's a skill one can enjoy for life.

[Marco]

It doesn't have an interlock ... it does have a fuse. A wirecutter turns any piece of wiring into an electrocution device in a couple of seconds. Just making it impossible to turn it on impulsively and grab the terminals should be enough.

[tatus1969]

to my opinion this thread talking about interlocks and the like doesn't address the real problem: either she needs help (if she really is suicidal) or she needs to be fired (if she is using it to manipulate you).

In the first case, if she attempts to commit suicide, I would call the police and let them hospitalize her in a psychiatry. These people can handle such a situation, you probably cannot and you also certainly do not want to experience the case when she really succeeds with her intent. You will maybe have to live feeling guilty from that day on.

In both cases, she will get separated from your HV source.

[Augustus]

I don't understand the fuss about the HV power supply. Yes, at 3KV (...but only 30mA...) it is dangerous if abused. But so are any regular mains outlets, imho even more because these are able to deliver a lot more current... So why are you worrying about the Fluke but not about your mains outlets? Or the box cutters?  I don't know what her problem is but the best you could do is to get her professional help asap

[bollio]

It's not your responsibility.  There's a million less intimidating ways for her to kill herself on company property or with company property... Why only focus on the one trivial hv power supply?  Are you going to go to her house and shut off the mains too?

[rstofer]

Fire her!  There's no reason for her problem to become your problem.
What about other employees?  What if she decides to take some along for the ride?  You actually owe them a safe work environment.

Check with someone knowledgeable in labor relations for your country with the intent to get rid of her.

[bollio]

I don't understand the fuss about the HV power supply. Yes, at 3KV (...but only 30mA...) it is dangerous if abused. But so are any regular mains outlets, imho even more because these are able to deliver a lot more current... So why are you worrying about the Fluke but not about your mains outlets? Or the box cutters?  I don't know what her problem is but the best you could do is to get her professional help asap

I like the way you think... Lol

Is there such a thing as jinx on the eevblog?