Needing to protect your data from customs searches is now a thing...

[aargee]

I have an old(er) iPhone 5. You could just keep feeding them the wrong PIN, with a totally confused look on your face, until the phone locks itself?

If anything, it will make it interesting.

[Rutherfordium]

I've noticed those stupid Border Security shows on TV always seem to go through people's phones to see what they've been saying to the people they're supposedly visiting.  It is very creepy and intrusive, and really spurns a desire for open borders to me.

[MarkS]

No, without probable cause and a warrant, the government should ABSOLUTELY NOT have the power to inspect my phone.  Simply put, without a good reason for suspicion, it's none of their damned business what's on my phone.  Returning from a trip overseas is not probable cause.  Google and Amazon may be doing the same thing, but I am not required to use either of them, and they are not capable of detaining me against my will and/or imprisoning me in order to extract information.  The government is.

If there's a safety/security reason for it, then it should be possible to get a warrant.

-Pat

It was originally intended to catch child predators that went on "sex tours" in third world countries. However, that is really irrelevant these days. It is too easy to upload your data to the cloud or dark net and wipe your device. However, once a law is implemented it is next to impossible to get it repealed, especially when "security" is involved.

[mtdoc]

Governments have the right to protect their borders and to prevent smuggling in of illicit drugs, certain agricultural products, banned weapons, etc.  The extension of this right to electronic devices was ostensibly done to prevent importation of child pornography. But, at least now, that is an unjustified argument since of course no child pornographer would do attempt that - not when they can anonymously transfer files on the internet or mail digital media.

Governments should not ever have the right to examine a person's private thoughts and lets face it - our phones, tablets and laptops are now just extensions of our brains. 

Governments should not have the right to examine our communications with others without probable cause.  With probable cause and search warrant issued by a court then yes - I have no problem in those limited cases, allowing the government to examine what is on a persons electronic device.

That is not what is happening here. 

[CJay]

Google is doing the same thing. They collect user data, but they neither leak it, nor keep the data in a way that can be used to trace you. So does Amazon. Together these two companies can control all my money and information, but I have nothing to fear. Unless they intentionally want to screw up billion of their users, otherwise I see no threat. If one day I become Chinese top rich, maybe I will care about this, But not now.

So you don't mind data harvesting as long as you have no data worth harvesting but if you did have then you'd be upset.

Unfortunately, if you don't stand up for your rights when they're under threat you'll find they've become incredibly difficult, if not impossible to get back later when you need them.

There are any number of dystopian fantasy novels, films, Anime etc. etc. that are beginning to look more like accurate predictions year on year.

[SingedFingers]

There are any number of dystopian fantasy novels, films, Anime etc. etc. that are beginning to look more like accurate predictions year on year.

Indeed. V for Vendetta is pretty much the way the UK is heading...

[EEVblog]

And not giving up your passwords when asked is not a crime

It is in the UK.

Really?
An officer can simply ask you for your passwords and you will go to jail if you do not give it to them?
Got a reference for that?
Nothing about passwords here:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/15/4524208/uk-border-police-seize-download-mobile-phone-data-under-anti-terror-law

[EEVblog]

The point is, government should have the power to inspect your phones

Screw that. Not without a warrant they shouldn't.

I hate government's superpower as everyone else does, but the point is, the government does this not just for fun. They're not a phone club or a readers' club, and they're not attracted by your phones. There must be a safety/security reason behind this.

There isn't. It's security theater, done to "protect you" from the imaginary boogy man you have been taught to fear.

[EEVblog]

I seriously think that if I went to the US again I would just get my phone and laptop couriered to my hotel upon arrival.

[Red Squirrel]

It is ridiculous how much our rights and freedoms are being taken away these days and not much we can do.  What makes matters worse is the fact that most people don't really seem to care, especially older people who don't really use technology much.

This kind of crap is starting to happen in Canada too.  They past a bill called Bill C-51 a few years ago which is like the US patriot act.  It's basically a mass surveillance bill making all the surveillance legal, and also giving them more powers to share info between countries etc.

Definitely would avoid bringing any electronics/data through a border or at an airport. If you have to, use a basic machine with nothing installed.  Download, install and configure VPN client once you're at your destination.  You could maybe carry the certificates on a micro SD card that is shoved in your luggage.

[MarkS]

I seriously think that if I went to the US again I would just get my phone and laptop couriered to my hotel upon arrival.

They would still have to pass through customs.

[tronde]

I hate government's superpower as everyone else does, but the point is, the government does this not just for fun. They're not a phone club or a readers' club, and they're not attracted by your phones. There must be a safety/security reason behind this.

Never underestimate the power of money.

Since you mentioned the body scanner:
https://theintercept.com/2015/05/27/tsa-body-scanner-lobbyist-takes-congressional-job-overseeing-spending-tsa-security/

[Monkeh]

And not giving up your passwords when asked is not a crime

It is in the UK.

Really?
An officer can simply ask you for your passwords and you will go to jail if you do not give it to them?
Got a reference for that?
Nothing about passwords here:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/15/4524208/uk-border-police-seize-download-mobile-phone-data-under-anti-terror-law

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/23/part/III

53 Failure to comply with a notice.

(1)A person to whom a section 49 notice has been given is guilty of an offence if he knowingly fails, in accordance with the notice, to make the disclosure required by virtue of the giving of the notice.

[CJay]

I seriously think that if I went to the US again I would just get my phone and laptop couriered to my hotel upon arrival.

I doubt I'd trust it ever again, if I really wanted to make sure my stuff was secure I'd be buying a burner laptop and phone on arrival then installing/restoring over a VPN

[mtdoc]

A good summary of the ongoing evolution of the Police state.  Mostly about the US,  but applicable to all other Western countries as well:

The Illusion of Freedom: the Police State Is Alive and Well

    “What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security… This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.”

    —Historian Milton Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45

[Delta]

There isn't. It's security theater, done to "protect you" from the imaginary boogy man you have been taught to fear.

You are absolutely correct in that what we see is nothing but security theatre, but to state that the threats we face are imaginary is just ludicrous.

[julianhigginson]

https://www.crikey.com.au/2014/09/04/the-real-threat-of-terrorism-to-australians-by-the-numbers/

imaginary? no. statistically insignificant compared to the resources thrown at them and the rights taken away in defending against them? hell yeah.

[EEVblog]

I seriously think that if I went to the US again I would just get my phone and laptop couriered to my hotel upon arrival.

They would still have to pass through customs.

Which they wouldn't care less about.

[EEVblog]

https://www.crikey.com.au/2014/09/04/the-real-threat-of-terrorism-to-australians-by-the-numbers/

imaginary? no. statistically insignificant compared to the resources thrown at them and the rights taken away in defending against them? hell yeah.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.
The boogy monster is completely imaginary in relation to how many will get caught by searching phones and computers at customs.
Meanwhile we have to live in a world were our privacy can be taken away on a whim by anyone with a badge.
It should require probable cause and a warrant.

Now, an argument can be made that they could do it to non-citizens entering their country, and those people have the option to either come to that country or not. But to citizens, hell no. If you let this kind of thing slide then you do deserve the totalitarian society you will end up with.

There isn't much I'd go to jail for, but this is one of them. I'd be "that guy" on the 6 o'clock news setting the national precedent case.

[mtdoc]

https://www.crikey.com.au/2014/09/04/the-real-threat-of-terrorism-to-australians-by-the-numbers/

imaginary? no. statistically insignificant compared to the resources thrown at them and the rights taken away in defending against them? hell yeah.

And similar statistics for the US  which has been expending enormous resources:  money, human lives, and other less tangible costs to fight the "war on terror" - a war which only promotes growth of more terrorism and less safety.

The boogy monster is completely imaginary in relation to how many will get caught by searching phones and computers at customs.
Meanwhile we have to live in a world were our privacy can be taken away on a whim by anyone with a badge.

The constant state of fear that is promoted and encouraged serves its purpose for politicians and the MIC...

The real cost of this unachievable goal to ensure complete security is very high.

[MarkS]

Which they wouldn't care less about.

You think they haven't thought of this?

[timb]

There isn't. It's security theater, done to "protect you" from the imaginary boogy man you have been taught to fear.

You are absolutely correct in that what we see is nothing but security theatre, but to state that the threats we face are imaginary is just ludicrous.

The last time I traveled (NC to CA and back), I managed to get a 7" flip blade knife onto the plane. Both ways!

Now, I didn't do it on purpose, but still, I was pretty amazed. (I had given it to my GF the week before to hold in her purse, then forgot about.)

I guess the TSA agents were more concerned about all the random wires, batteries and circuit boards in my backpack, as I got pulled for bag searches both ways, yet they never noticed the knife in her purse.

Yet I still have to take off my shoes and can't carry shampoo. Its ludicrous.

[digsys]

Remember, not that long ago, here in Melbourne, they introduced a law (or tried to?), where they could stop anyone in the streets and demand proof of ID#, fingerprints? etc,
IN CASE they had done something wrong !! All the usual bullshlt "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about" !! Well, it didn't last long :-) Unbefookinlieveable !

[james_s]

The last time I traveled (NC to CA and back), I managed to get a 7" flip blade knife onto the plane. Both ways!

Now, I didn't do it on purpose, but still, I was pretty amazed. (I had given it to my GF the week before to hold in her purse, then forgot about.)

I guess the TSA agents were more concerned about all the random wires, batteries and circuit boards in my backpack, as I got pulled for bag searches both ways, yet they never noticed the knife in her purse.

Yet I still have to take off my shoes and can't carry shampoo. Its ludicrous.

A few years ago I flew back from Bend, OR to Seattle. Now the airport in Bend is a tiny little thing, the sort of place where you wait in a glass walled terminal until your plane pulls up outside and then you line up and walk out onto the tarmac and climb aboard. Security at the time was just the old fashioned metal detector you walk through and an ancient baggage xray machine, none of those fancy body scanners or anything. When I arrived back in Seattle it occurred to me that I was in the secure area of a major airport, having completely bypassed all the fancy security by taking a 40 minute flight from a small town.

One could also get a large amount of liquid or other substance on a plane by simply finding a stash point and having a few dozen people carry the allowed amount through security and deposit it in the arranged location or hand it off to somebody. It's not as if someone planning an attack wouldn't have the resources to do this.

I don't worry about it though, terrorist attacks are exceedingly rare, I'm more likely to die in a plane crash caused by mechanical failure or human error, and far more likely than that to die in my car on the way to the airport. In the US roughly 50,000 people are killed every year in car crashes, that's equivalent to a typical passenger jet going down every single day. It's so common that few even think about it, people fear terrorists but think nothing of having a few drinks and then driving home, or playing with their phone as they barrel down the highway in 4,000 lbs of steel.

[HoracioDos]

I'm always complaining why we can't be a developed and serious country. But when I see these things I'm quite happy living below parallel 35 south.

By the way, there's something strange about this case. In Latin America if you shout and complain a lot you can get away with it.