Net neutrality at risk again

[cdev]

The people I knew who voted for Trump all did it for one reason alone, to get the US out of these trade deals like NAFTA, TPP, TTIP, TiSA, and the WTO GATS. They were not racists and in fact two of them were not even European-Americans.

They told me that they knew that Hillary meant more, massive job losses. Her (and both US parties)  "Global value chains" ideology means that there is no job that stays in the country except for ones Americans are irreplaceable in, which according to neoliberal dogma is a fairly limited sphere of jobs. (For example, in IT read Nicholas Carr's "IT Doesn't "Matter" essay which advocates outsourcing all services that are not central to a company's main product. Due to the embrace of GVCs, all those jobs are likely to become part of the global value chains leaving the millions of US families who are not computer chip designers or rocket scientists - or trade lawyers, with the highest costs of living in the world but no safety nets and no incomes.)   What will they do?


All the other jobs will get farmed out, even when the jobs themselves remain in the country, the people doing them will be global temps, part of a new kind of indentured servitude. heir term of indenture will be 10 years or less, and they will leave with their experience (and Social Security benefits) at the end. They won't be paid decent wages and will be basically a new kind of bonded labor.

A new kind of slavery. The lure of cheap labor is strong and is fueling a lot of dishonesty. Its a lot like the internship issue. Nobody is willing to face the facts. Free labor - whether involuntary or not (the parents of interns basically pay for them to get experience by subsidizing their living expenses for several years while they work for nothing, or close to it)  eliminating jobs.

Mode Four (the new indentured servitude) is different, people are tied to s single corporation who basically arranges their visa. They are turned into entitlements and once allowed, canno be ended. Basically turning something that looks a lot like immigration but isn't, into a corporate entitlement, forever. (It will likely have a very negative effect on the kinds of immigration we want, though, basically I see the corporations as stealing it from the people, in order so that the government can end free public higher education and health care and shift those resources to other things like smart bombs. A large number of the high skill jobs will be turned into low wage indentured servitude. Much like internships in that only wealthy people's children (with other sources of income while they work for nothing)  can afford to do them.)

It will cause massive job loss in the better paying countries. Unfortunately, its not at all clear Trump is actually against that, as he actually uses these schemes to get cheap labor for his various projects around the world.

(I could have told them that)

He is just pretending to oppose the trade deals, for now.

I am 99% certain its just an act. Both US parties are neoliberals.

This is why people need to become more aware of whats going on in the world (and stop trusting the increasingly captured news media-especially in the US where 6 corporations own most of the news media) .

 There is almost no chance of any improvement happening until people realize just how different things are from what the media is telling us is happening.  People should make an effort to read the news media from a number of different countries to get different perspectives.

It's all the yanks' fault for electing an idiot.  
Not going to bother the EU at all - - also it will be changed back after the 'mid terms' for sure  . Smoke n Mirrors.
As for 'tracking' people for heath insurance and other foil hat theories, then simple, get rid of your so called 'smart phone' and don't use faecesbook etc. - or even better - move to country that has REAL health care... ie - practically ANYWHERE in the world apart from the us of 'hey ?'
Seriously, the states are sinking down a drain of their own making.  Fart head (trump) is only interested in one thing. Changing anything that obama did. - nothing more at all.

I suppose in the 'bible belt' of latter day money grabbers and TV con artists they would probably ignore  'for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap'.
 
Sheesh...

[Marco]

Since we never had net neutrality and the rules were never applied, so what?  Nothing has changed.

The fights between the last mile providers and video services seemed to die down a bit because of the net neutrality rules. A stick doesn't have to be used to be useful.

Net neutrality is a bit of a double edged sword though, with net neutrality more bandwidth is often the only solution to problems. Stuff like multicasting, QoS and handling DDOS's in a sane way are hard to combine with net neutrality.

[Freelander]

He is just pretending to oppose the trade deals, for now.

I am 99% certain its just an act. Both US parties are neoliberals.

This is why people need to become more aware of whats going on in the world (and stop trusting the increasingly captured news media-especially in the US where 6 corporations own most of the news media) .

 There is almost no chance of any improvement happening until people realize just how different things are from what the media is telling us is happening.  People should make an effort to read the news media from a number of different countries to get different perspectives.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but perhaps not quite so vehemently.  Trump is a total liar and a conman, plain and simple. I worship the ground he is coming to. In the eyes of the world the us of hey is now a joke (because of him - and the cowards in the gop. I would definitely say that fart head would not have been elected in anyone's wildest dreams apart from the shockingly bad democrat candidate.
'Globalism' is an oft misinterpreted phrase. In it's extreme it is not - imo - the best option. However, it is inevitable that a level of globalism exists. The free trade arrangements are, in most cases, excellent. It is the consumers choice to get themselves into a downward spiral of buying the cheapest possible widget, which is imported, then, by their actions, removes local and national jobs, hence reducing income to a huge amount, who then look for cheaper and cheaper items which amplifies the effect. Under idiots like Bannon etc (who pulls the strings) then the 'us' would end up as an insular society that was unable to export anything due to ridiculously high costs. Everything in moderation.
As for news, I find most of the mainstream fairly good. The standard of 'news' a person can absorb appears to be directly proportional to IQ, common sense and life experience. I personally find that the best sources of news for a reasonable picture is - in order - BBC, Al Jazeera and MSNBC. It would appear that too many get their 'news' (lies) from anything controlled by Murdoch and also too many 'internet' total nut job sites.
You have to take ALL news with a pinch of salt.
I really do find the BBC excellent, their 'wind up' of trump is hilarious. They ALWAYS chose the most unflattering pictures. There is one today of him looking like a total tramps as he got off marine one. They have done that ever since he tried to humiliate a bbc reporter in one of his public lying appearances.  They are subtle and amusing in their portrayal and he is too stupid to understand.
MSNBC are just hilarious in their portrayal. Thoroughly enjoyable. 

[Marco]

Even the impact of ISDS we know of is a horror show, let alone all the ways they constrain sovereignty in ways we never get to know about.

Free trade is fine, foreign investor protection is recreating feudalism ... any politicians who signs a modern free "trade" agreement is a traitor.

[Mr. Scram]

To all the "nothing changed" people: do you really think these companies spend millions of dollars lobbying for something they have never used, and never intend to use? The internet has changed since net neutrality was imposed. Just look at what's happening to games, where micro-transactions are the latest way of turning something enjoyable into a cash cow that can be milked until it's dead.

The fact that considerable time and money is spent to repeal net neutrality means these companies see significant opportunities to get more money out of the same public. Saying it will improve competition is silly, as that will only cut into the margins of the people lobbying. It's a simple matter of following the money.

[cdev]

Actually, there is actually a sort of "globalist" movement (unfortunately) and examples of people who were and likely still are associated with it are the former PM of New Zealand (and DG of the WTO) Michael Moore (not the filmmaker) and the Clintons.

There used to be groups at colleges who would organize around this.

In the case of Hillary Rodham, before she met Bill she was (after being a campaign worker for Barry Goldwater) associated with the SDS and later this "movement" which is wrongfully claimed to be left wing but is actually right wing.

Unfortunately, both parties in the US are now basically controlled by people who share these views and agandas. This has been the case for a long time, its called "the Washington Consensus"  Trump is not an exception. The Clintons started the WTO so that should give you an idea of where they stand. The WTO has been a disaster for both developing and developed countries, not just one or the other. Both.

For example, countries- even developing countries have to get rid of public services (unless they meet the narrowest of exemptions- which almost never apply) when they join it.
For example-  India-

http://aifrte.in/sites/default/files/WTO-GATS/WTO-GATS-Discussion-Material/EU%20USA%20Cd%20%20Oppose%20GATS%20En.pdf

They believe that everything should be negotiable and wages in developed countries basically should be falling. They want to create one way traps to force countries to dissolve what they claim are non-tariff barriers to trade. basically all the improvements in some countries that other countries have not gotten, they want to throw away.

This "race to the bottom" as its called will be great for multinational corporations  that want cheap labor but its the wrong thing to be doing as jobs dry up globally- because even without their interference, people will be losing jobs by the millions and soon billions.

How does this relate to network profitability? Mining the date for important information will become a big income stream, for example, health data, companies are willing to spend large amounts of money on health related information on customers. So they can decide who to insure and who not to (or to charge more) They claim this is essential for them to be able to be profitable. All sorts of things are marketable todbits of information. Also, they might be paid to block some traffic, its an auction, they pay for everything and anything. Also big areas may not be profitable to offer service to. Rural areas.

They claim that the highly mobile nature of global capital demands huge returns on investments.

[madires]

What the big US telcos want:
- make as much money as Google and others (they got the content and get tons of ad money)
- charge the customer for internet access
- introduce extra fees for HD streaming and so on (more profit)
- sell whatever data they can collect on customers (more profit)
- force content platforms to pay for traffic which is already paid by the customers (sell once, get paid twice)
  for networkers: forcing content providers from peering to paid peering or transit
- becoming content gatekeepers (ultimate goal for maximum profit)
- invest as little money as possible in network infrastructure

And since there's no real competition in the US, telcos already charging obnoxious nonsense fees, spending huge sums for lobbying, writing laws to thwart any municipal competition, promising high speed internet for collecting subsidies and never deliver, getting away with all that, having a former telco lawyer as FCC chairman, it looks very bad for consumers.

[Freelander]

The internet has changed since net neutrality was imposed. Just look at what's happening to games, where micro-transactions are the latest way of turning something enjoyable into a cash cow that can be milked until it's dead.

The fact that considerable time and money is spent to repeal net neutrality means these companies see significant opportunities to get more money out of the same public. Saying it will improve competition is silly, as that will only cut into the margins of the people lobbying. It's a simple matter of following the money.

  To put together 'in game purchases / micro transactions' as a product of 'net neutrality' is a totally ridiculous argument that shows a very high degree of ignorance in the subject.
Absolutely NOTHING at all to do with each other.
I will call your nurse............
 

[Mr. Scram]

To put together 'in game purchases / micro transactions' as a product of 'net neutrality' is a totally ridiculous argument that shows a very high degree of ignorance in the subject.
Absolutely NOTHING at all to do with each other.
I will call your nurse............
 

It really doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out how internet providers selling internet access piecemeal compares to micro-transactions, but sure, call your sister for me

[Freelander]

but sure, call your sister for me

Good god man, you don;t mean the blonde one do you    Have you actually met her ? 
 

[tszaboo]

"Wherever you are in the EU you must be able to access electronic communication services of good quality at an affordable price - including basic internet access. There should be at least one internet provider who can provide this service for you. This is known as the "universal service"' principle."

"You have the right to access and distribute the online content and services you wish. Your internet provider cannot block, slow down or discriminate against any online content, applications or services, except in 3 specific cases:

- to comply with legal obligations, such as a court order blocking specific illegal content
- to preserve the security and integrity of the network, for example to combat viruses or malware
- to manage exceptional or temporary network congestion
This is known as net neutrality."

https://europa.eu

[Freelander]

"Wherever you are in the EU you must be able to access electronic communication services of good quality at an affordable price - including basic internet access. There should be at least one internet provider who can provide this service for you. This is known as the "universal service"' principle."

"You have the right to access and distribute the online content and services you wish. Your internet provider cannot block, slow down or discriminate against any online content, applications or services, except in 3 specific cases:

- to comply with legal obligations, such as a court order blocking specific illegal content
- to preserve the security and integrity of the network, for example to combat viruses or malware
- to manage exceptional or temporary network congestion
This is known as net neutrality."

https://europa.eu

That is exactly as it is and should be!. Thank god that any real 'brexit' isnt happening now, just the 'eu' by another name.
The EU will never go down the crazy route of the 'us of hey'. In fact, the 'us' will find it extremely difficult to shaft any but their own 'citizens worker droids' as the EU (the leaders of the 'free' world) will not allow non neutral content.
Yay