New Mac Pro design. Thoughts?

[TimNJ]

WWDC was today. Didn't watch it, but I saw they added a fancy new page for the Mac Pro.

I'm not entirely sure why they thought it was a good idea to make these changes. While it seems "cool", from a professional standpoint I don't for see it being more beneficial. Does a professional care if he has a big clunkin computer versus a slick black can: I don't think so.

How about optical drives? Or more than one to burn copies or something?

Alright idea but I'm failing to see the true purpose.

Here's the link: http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

[c4757p]

I tried to get a look at it but got sick of waiting for their web site to finish masturbating to the pictures of the thing. It looks like what I'd imagine the iTrashCan would look like.

How about optical drives? Or more than one to burn copies or something?

Because even something that would be very useful to a "professional" doesn't have to exist in a Mac "Pro". It just has to give you a reason to turn your nose up at all the other computers.

[TimNJ]

I tried to get a look at it but got sick of waiting for their web site to finish masturbating to the pictures of the thing. It looks like what I'd imagine the iTrashCan would look like.

How about optical drives? Or more than one to burn copies or something?

Because even something that would be very useful to a "professional" doesn't have to exist in a Mac "Pro". It just has to give you a reason to turn your nose up at all the other computers.

LMAO!

Yeah I think Apple's trying to be a bit too "revolutionary" for their own good.

[tom66]

It's hideous. Oh, and doesn't look like you can upgrade much, or any of it? Where's the power supply -- what if that fails? Congratulations Apple -- two more reasons for me not to get a Mac Pro.

[TimNJ]

c4757p put it well with the "trashcan" remark. That's exactly what it looks like. Why make it cylindrical? That's just stupid for a variety of reasons..And they could have done a centralized cooling system without making it a cylinder. I've seen a bunch of bench power supplies that do that nicely.

[MacAttak]

I like the design a lot. It is quite innovative. It is clearly configured for efficient cooling - like a chimney tower. I missed the event too (was watching the Xbox One event), but the specs on the web site look great. 12-core Xeon? Dual GPU w/ 6G memory on each? PCIe Solid-state storage? 4K video support (on three panels)? 802.11ac (most routers don't even have this yet)? They are also using ECC memory it looks like. I haven't seen that in anything except for top-end server class hardware for years. You'd have to dump a boatload of cash into a custom gaming rig or cad workstation to come close to those specs in a non-Mac.

You don't need multiple DVD drives. I almost never even need a single one. Everything these days is downloadable in 10 minutes or less in ISO format. The worst I have seen lately is Xilinx ISE, but even that 7G file is still less than a 20 minute download. I have an external Superdrive for my current Retina MBP, and it rarely gets used. I've no idea what I would do with a second drive. I cannot recall the last time I needed to duplicate a disc - maybe around year 2000?

And I don't see the concern about upgrading. The info page clearly shows the cover of the machine lifting and individual boards being accessible - if anything, it looks to be highly serviceable when you compare it to the typical steel PC cube. Everything appears to be directly accessible instead of needing to move boards and cables out of the way to get to what you care about.

The web site doesn't mention a price though. I'm betting it will be far out of reach, at least for my budget, especially since I just got a new Retina MBP this spring.

[MacAttak]

But haters are always gonna hate, I suppose.

[c4757p]

I agree it doesn't look completely unserviceable, at least, as far as I can tell from the amount of time I'm willing to fart around with their website for, and the specs are good. (I disagree that the specs are unique, though - the only thing they seem to have that's new is ECC RAM, which as far as I have ever seen is useless in a desktop.) I just think it looks stupid. I know that's completely subjective - feel free to buy one if you like it, I won't criticize you for it. I just don't want something that looks like a trash can and a computer screwed sitting on my bench...

The website is indefensible though. It looks like one big marketing and graphic design circle jerk. Completely useless. 

[ve7xen]

The old one had ECC RAM as well. It's a workstation, not a desktop. But now they seem to want to build it with desktop tradeoffs and desktop design goals. Seems a bit silly to me. I'm not the target market for this, but are people spending this much money on this much computer really more concerned about aesthetics than upgradeability/serviceability? It seems like a product targeting the iMac crowd, but at MacPro prices. Maybe that's exactly what it's supposed to be doing.

Also who wants a computer with rounded edges? I want something that doesn't look out of place pushed against a desk wall or into a corner, not something that commands free space around it because of its non-linear shape.

I'd say this is a pretty neat design if it were a normal desktop. For a workstation though it seems they've made the wrong tradeoffs. But then that tends to be what I think about pretty much every product Apple makes...

[Monkeh]

No internal storage worth mentioning and non-locking cables to connect to external storage (or LAN, but that's slow as it's not not 10GbE). Not a workstation.

And ECC's not new, the previous Mac Pro had ECC.

I do like the massive amount of bandwidth presented by the Thunderbolt 2 ports, though.

[Corporate666]

Not a fan.

A cylinder does not seem to be a very efficient shape for a computer.... seems like it takes up more space than necessary while also having a bunch of necessarily proprietary parts, and interconnects between parts that would otherwise be unnecessary.

To me, it looks like they compromised a lot just to have a cool looking case - and it doesn't really even look very cool.  A small aluminum cube or rectangle shape - thin in profile, would be much nicer.

[Monkeh]

They are also using ECC memory it looks like. I haven't seen that in anything except for top-end server class hardware for years. You'd have to dump a boatload of cash into a custom gaming rig or cad workstation to come close to those specs in a non-Mac.

As opposed to dumping an equal or greater boatload of cash into the less capable Mac?

[c4757p]

As opposed to dumping an equal or greater boatload of cash into the less capable Mac?

The cash doesn't go in the Mac. That's where the hamburger wrapper goes.

Edit: I feel bad for overlooking the opportunity to make a terrible joke about apple cores in with your Apple's (processor) cores.

[nanofrog]

I really do like the "trashcan" remark over it's appearance. 

Highly compromised design IMHO, and seems more of a push to bring prosumer users back than designed purely as a real workstation. Mass storage via Thunder Bolt to add it on isn't the best solution IMHO (all TB chips switched to the same 8x PCIe lanes), and the current crop of external TB storage devices aren't enterprise grade (Promise Pegasus R4 & R6 models are using consumer grade drives). Potential to choke throughput, higher cost, and less reliable. Yuck.

4 DIMM's would make large RAM capacities more expensive as well when forced to use 16 or 32GB sticks.

[Corporate666]

You'd have to dump a boatload of cash into a custom gaming rig or cad workstation to come close to those specs in a non-Mac.

I've priced out Mac's a few times before (since the hardware is no different than PC hardware).  But they have always been more expensive than a comparable PC (like Dell or workstation) with the same hardware. 

Apple does a good job of putting everything together in a single package for you - and this new Mac Pro has great specs today.  But in a year it will be outdated again, and it will take Apple a long time to catch up (as it did with this machine).

[Monkeh]

You'd have to dump a boatload of cash into a custom gaming rig or cad workstation to come close to those specs in a non-Mac.

I've priced out Mac's a few times before (since the hardware is no different than PC hardware).  But they have always been more expensive than a comparable PC (like Dell or workstation) with the same hardware.

'More expensive' doesn't quite cover $2000 for $850 of RAM.

[EEVblog]

It's an ash tray, right?

[nanofrog]

It's an ash tray, right?

Add a carbon filter, and it can double as one of those smoke eater types. 

[peterthenovice]

looks more like a toilet with a extra trash can feature for an extra 10 grand.

[c4757p]

looks more like a toilet with a extra trash can feature for an extra 10 grand.

If you think this looks like a toilet - dude... that's not a toilet. Stop shitting in the trash can, your mom must hate you.

[peterthenovice]

no! i Have the new toilet they just made for birds

[c4757p]

no! i Have the new toilet they just made for birds

You are a strange bird.

Oh wait, it makes sense now.

[peterthenovice]

no! i Have the new toilet they just made for birds

You are a strange bird.

Oh wait, it makes sense now.

yep! I am  a penguin.

[MacAttak]

What I like about the case design is that it is going to be significantly more efficient at cooling the hardware than any traditional box or tower design can be. This should be obvious. The fact that it is cylindrical is just form following function - the same reason we don't complain about our boxy bench PSU's and scopes. And using a large squirrel-cage fan with low RPM and high surface area means that it will be significantly more quiet than standard case fans at equivalent airflow levels. In a professional environment, workstation noise is a major problem. If your computer is in an electronics lab where damn near everything hums all the time, then it wouldn't matter. But in a professional office setting (such as where you might find a designer, video editor, or CAD engineer), silent operation is a huge selling point.

The thought did occur to me that one could wedge a high-quality particulate filter into the base of it, and the machine would serve as a HEPA air filter too

I didn't realize that the current model had ECC memory. It's certainly not commonplace in the PC world.

No internal storage worth mentioning

I'm not sure where that comment comes from. One of the key features they are touting is the PCI Express Flash storage, which they are claiming is several times faster than the maximum you can get from SSD on SATA (1.2 GB/s). To be fair though, they don't say anything about how much internal storage will be available.

[Monkeh]

I didn't realize that the current model had ECC memory. It's certainly not commonplace in the PC world.

It is in the workstation world, which Apple apparently think this thing is fit for.

No internal storage worth mentioning

I'm not sure where that comment comes from. One of the key features they are touting is the PCI Express Flash storage, which they are claiming is several times faster than the maximum you can get from SSD on SATA (1.2 GB/s). To be fair though, they don't say anything about how much internal storage will be available.

It's meant to be a workstation. Where's the mass storage? You can't do any serious data handling and there's no RAID, nor removable drive for backup.

Don't say external: Thunderbolt uses non-locking connectors and it doesn't even have 10GbE.