Author Topic: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes  (Read 32142 times)

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Offline aparlettTopic starter

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Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« on: November 12, 2011, 01:34:09 pm »
hey guys,

I'm in the final stages of buying my oscilloscope, i'm getting the DSOX3014A Oscilloscope.
However I am across a thread on Agilent website than some people have experienced noise problems with there scope. :-\

http://forums.tm.agilent.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27796&sid=77499592f0d9c2296bbbb5dfcb1ef248

has any one else noticed this? I think its a one off
Dave if your reading this did you notice this while doing your tests on the 2000 and 3000 series?

thanks antony
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2011, 06:28:25 pm »
All know that original Hewlett-Packard Test Equipment company was destroyed years ago. This sad year was 1999 
I remember this catastrophal news just as yesterday. No one can understand why this happend. :(
« Last Edit: November 12, 2011, 06:33:39 pm by rf-loop »
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the wises gone?
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2011, 07:27:44 pm »
So much half-comprehensible babbling, not enough pics and detailed explanations of how the scope in question was configured to arrive at said nonexistent pics. ???
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2011, 08:26:49 pm »
Yes, folks are better off discussing their concerns on this forum, where there are more owners and clearly more knowledgeable folks here about this scope.  Further many of the questions raised are already answered in this forum, at least search for it.  I mean, why instead of referencing Dave's videos, why not speak to Dave or other owners directly?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 12:11:29 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline aparlettTopic starter

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2011, 11:03:15 pm »
that's what i was thinking, I trust you guys allot more than those guys. if none of you have had a smmilar problem i will order it as soon as i get my formal quote  :D
 

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2011, 11:17:21 am »
hey guys,

I'm in the final stages of buying my oscilloscope, i'm getting the DSOX3014A Oscilloscope.
However I am across a thread on Agilent website than some people have experienced noise problems with there scope. :-\

http://forums.tm.agilent.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27796&sid=77499592f0d9c2296bbbb5dfcb1ef248

has any one else noticed this? I think its a one off
Dave if your reading this did you notice this while doing your tests on the 2000 and 3000 series?

thanks antony

My 3000 has around 1mV max single shot noise at the highest timebase setting, 2mV max if you free run it, both floating input.
Slightly better when the input is terminated.
If you use the HiRes mode then it's better than 200uV at low timebase settings (<1us) with the input open.
I see no "pulses" or such to suggest it's anything other than fairly wideband random noise, although I have not done a spectral analysis of it.

I agree with slateraptor, without pics the comments don't carry much weight (my comments too  ;D)

Dave.
 

Offline aparlettTopic starter

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2011, 02:36:41 pm »
thanks Dave
 that's good to know. I'm really looking froward to getting a scope, they are giving me an awesome deal at trio-smart-cal, I told them that you mentioned a student deal  and they still said they will give it to me(it expired in July) and 20% off.

thanks Antony
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2011, 07:35:03 pm »
thanks Dave
 that's good to know. I'm really looking froward to getting a scope, they are giving me an awesome deal at trio-smart-cal, I told them that you mentioned a student deal  and they still said they will give it to me(it expired in July) and 20% off.

thanks Antony

Yet another reason to hate being a poor college student. :'( <--- This guy is envious.

My time will come. *patience*
 

Offline M. András

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2011, 08:47:25 pm »
i think it can be an invidual unit batch with these problems or some glitch in the manufacturing process, but its intresting to see such opinions about a product. btw i would like to see some pics of that improved shielding of the scope ;)


i have a weller wd1000m solder station set with their micropencil its a nice tool but within 1.5 month of buying it from an authorized dealer i had to take it back to the shop cos the thing wouldnt heat up or a very low temp and displaying insane numbers, displays 500 ? and i held the tip of the iron and it was cold, after a week it came back from the weller service center and i was told they found no problems, after i brought it home and plugged in i noticed every damn setting was set back to default which is not a problem, but the damn thing now overheats the iron while displaying lower values, set to 100 ? while melts the solder which melts at 183 ? according to the manufacturer sheet now waiting for a tip thermometer to see somehow how hot is the iron versus the displayed value, so i can think of these like an invidual problem with an expensive lab/production gear (muprhy lived and will live  ;D)
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 08:32:32 am »
i have a weller wd1000m solder station set with their micropencil its a nice tool but within 1.5 month of buying it from an authorized dealer i had to take it back to the shop cos the thing wouldnt heat up or a very low temp and displaying insane numbers, displays 500 ? and i held the tip of the iron and it was cold, after a week it came back from the weller service center and i was told they found no problems, after i brought it home and plugged in i noticed every damn setting was set back to default which is not a problem, but the damn thing now overheats the iron while displaying lower values, set to 100 ? while melts the solder which melts at 183 ? according to the manufacturer sheet now waiting for a tip thermometer to see somehow how hot is the iron versus the displayed value, so i can think of these like an invidual problem with an expensive lab/production gear (muprhy lived and will live  ;D)

My WD1000 had same problems and even more. I even sent it at my cost to Germany for new FW to be installed ( i had an early production one and did not have the USB module fitted) and it still did not work. Then i bought the Weller most fine WX2, that did not absolutely work. Weller admitted that they are crap by desing and is bringing them back to the sketch table and returned my money. I would never buy weller again, im sticking to Hakko because they just work!

Ok not to steal original thread we should not post this kind of issues but i have my way of story for this topic too.

I would never and i mean never buy my 3024A if i could go in past. I started hating Agilent for buying this scope and i will never, ever buy anything from them again. Yes the scope has some noise problems but i cant say surely because my scope boots only 1 time of 150 tries so im using it as expensive paper weight *. I tried to sell it lower than 1/2 price but who wants a dead scope? Agilent does not accept warranty claim because it was a demo unit, because the distributeur sold it ilegally and what not excuse they managed to think off? Is it my problem, I paid my scope fair?

Now i feel easier and hope to soon buy the Hameg as from previous experience i know they care and communicate with buyers.

* a useless or broken piece of equipment, especially electronic equipment
 
Oh, the joy of sending various electronics to silicon heaven
 

Offline johnboxall

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 10:15:25 am »
Ok not to steal original thread we should not post this kind of issues but i have my way of story for this topic too.

I would never and i mean never buy my 3024A if i could go in past. I started hating Agilent for buying this scope and i will never, ever buy anything from them again. Yes the scope has some noise problems but i cant say surely because my scope boots only 1 time of 150 tries so im using it as expensive paper weight *. I tried to sell it lower than 1/2 price but who wants a dead scope? Agilent does not accept warranty claim because it was a demo unit, because the distributeur sold it ilegally and what not excuse they managed to think off? Is it my problem, I paid my scope fair?

Now i feel easier and hope to soon buy the Hameg as from previous experience i know they care and communicate with buyers.

* a useless or broken piece of equipment, especially electronic equipment

How much money did you save by buying it "under the counter" so to speak?
How much will Agilent charge you over there to repair it?

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 10:55:10 am »
How much money did you save by buying it "under the counter" so to speak?
How much will Agilent charge you over there to repair it?

I bought it at official Agilent point. They first quoted me waiting time so long i would die before getting it but i accepted. After payment i wait, wait and wait... And nothing after the date come. The then say some random blah blah and offer to take a new scope which just arrived but for them as Demo unit and its not anyway different than usual and they will take mine when it arrives for them. But since they should not do that "officially" they will not issue me a receipt and gave me some symbolical discount (approximately enough for a diet coke and BigMac). They don't want to accept the scope anymore and even estimate the repair cost (they even don't have an idea what could be with it" and for them the transaction is solved.

I could report this to local institutions, start a lawsuit and get all my money back they would get a fine enough big to force them to close business but you see I'm not so mean to make people loose job's (especially those people that are simple workers) but i will never-ever touch anything with the Agilent name or anybody from my colleagues, employees, friends, cooperating companies...

I regret Fluke does not have something in this range, usually when there is a problem with Fluke they solve it so fast and nice you dont regret even one cent that you paid for their gear.
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Offline johnboxall

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 11:00:49 am »
I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this - but your gripe is with the dealer and yourself, not Agilent. All equipment will have a certain percentage of failures, and by a complete shitty coincidence you got one of them. Have you contacted Agilent directly? I'm sure a polite explanation of the situation should get some help from them, their service departments are usually excellent.

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 11:02:15 am »
I would never and i mean never buy my 3024A if i could go in past. I started hating Agilent for buying this scope and i will never, ever buy anything from them again. Yes the scope has some noise problems but i cant say surely because my scope boots only 1 time of 150 tries so im using it as expensive paper weight *. I tried to sell it lower than 1/2 price but who wants a dead scope? Agilent does not accept warranty claim because it was a demo unit, because the distributeur sold it ilegally and what not excuse they managed to think off? Is it my problem, I paid my scope fair?

Did you actually ask the distributor if the demo unit was still covered under warranty? If they said it was, then they have to either honor that or risk losing their official distributorship.
If they said it wasn't (or you didn't ask) and you knowing took the risk then really you can't really blame Agilent for not replacing effectively a 2nd hand unit.
If you bought the unit legally, then Agilent would have bent over backward to fix it for you, as there have been several reports on here and various places that attest to that.

Dave.
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 11:13:40 am »
Did you actually ask the distributor if the demo unit was still covered under warranty? If they said it was, then they have to either honor that or risk losing their official distributorship.
If they said it wasn't (or you didn't ask) and you knowing took the risk then really you can't really blame Agilent for not replacing effectively a 2nd hand unit.
If you bought the unit legally, then Agilent would have bent over backward to fix it for you, as there have been several reports on here and various places that attest to that.

Dave.

Hello Dave. To quote myself "new scope which just arrived but for them as Demo unit and its not anyway different than usual and they will take mine when it arrives for them" as said by them there is no difference and warranty should be. Legally (atleast here) you cant sell anything without warranty. They installed me the licenses i ordered and said they will leave mine scope for them when it arrives. I would not buy a such piece of equipment at that price if i would not have warrantly (i would do that only if it was 1/4 of original price or something). The unit was not even used by them i think since i got it nicely packed and all accesories were sealed.

Agilent does not care i wrote to them allready, they even did not bother to copy&paste some general answer. Dave dont offend please but you got a quite expensive scope free so i think you cant judge them and their actions fair. If anybody here got one free they would jump arround the forum screaming how Agilent is the nicest company in the world.

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this - but your gripe is with the dealer and yourself, not Agilent. All equipment will have a certain percentage of failures, and by a complete shitty coincidence you got one of them. Have you contacted Agilent directly? I'm sure a polite explanation of the situation should get some help from them, their service departments are usually excellent.

You will not get flamed. They represent Agilent oficially, they are on Agilent distributors list, so "they are" Agilent.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2011, 11:20:42 am by hacklordsniper »
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Offline ejeffrey

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 11:22:10 am »
I bought it at official Agilent point. They first quoted me waiting time so long i would die before getting it but i accepted. After payment i wait, wait and wait... And nothing after the date come. The then say some random blah blah and offer to take a new scope which just arrived but for them as Demo unit and its not anyway different than usual and they will take mine when it arrives for them.

Yeah, the distributor should take the scope back and exchange it for the serial number you bought, or otherwise replace you scope.  If they don't, I would seriously do two things: 1) Report the distributors actions to agilent.  They need to know if their distributors are screwing their customers.  When presented with the whole story they may or may not be able or willing to do anything to help you, but they might consider revoking the authorized dealer status, or otherwise penalizing them.  2) If the distributor did not tell you specifically that the item was not covered by warranty when they offered it as an exchange, they should legally be obligated to fulfill the warranty claim.  In this case, I would file suit against the distributor.  In all likelihood, this will simply convince them to replace your scope and cost no more than the cost of a scope.  I wouldn't worry about the consequences for the distributor: if they won't make it right, they are a bad company!  In 2011 distributors are an endangered species: if all they do is fill out a customs form and repack merchandise in a box with their own label the manufacturers are going to continue cutting out the middleman and doing direct sales to customers.  Make them earn their keep by providing better service than you could get directly from the manufacturer.

On the other hand, if you bought a scope that they explicitly said was out of warranty, you are kind of screwed.  You should still report the problem to agilent: this is not the kind of behavior they expect from their distributors, but you probably have no legal recourse.  Don't buy expensive equipment on the grey market unless the discount is enough that you are willing to take the failure risk.
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 11:32:01 am »
Yeah, the distributor should take the scope back and exchange it for the serial number you bought, or otherwise replace you scope.  If they don't, I would seriously do two things: 1) Report the distributors actions to agilent.  They need to know if their distributors are screwing their customers.  On the other hand, if you bought a scope that they explicitly said was out of warranty, you are kind of screwed.  You should still report the problem to agilent: this is not the kind of behavior they expect from their distributors, but you probably have no legal recourse.  Don't buy expensive equipment on the grey market unless the discount is enough that you are willing to take the failure risk.

They refuse to change the scope for the original i ordered (did they even order it?)
I allready reported it to Agilent, they did not even respond
In our law (in other countries may be different) no company can sell anything to anyone without warranty, and even if i heard such thing i would surely not buy it. However they could do what they wish at that moment since they allready had my money.

Again im repeating myself but i did not buy it in gray market (altrough i take the trip there sometimes too  ;) ). I bought it at official Agilent distributeur, they have nice Agilent signs all over the place, they are on Agilent website as their official distributeur so they are Agilent in some point.
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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2011, 11:35:28 am »
I'm probably going to get flamed for saying this - but your gripe is with the dealer and yourself, not Agilent. All equipment will have a certain percentage of failures, and by a complete shitty coincidence you got one of them. Have you contacted Agilent directly? I'm sure a polite explanation of the situation should get some help from them, their service departments are usually excellent.

I second that.
Blaming Agilent for this is not right, they had nothing to with it, it is the dealer at fault here.
You should contact Agilent directly and explain it all.
Although you can still hold a grudge against Agilent for the failed unit  ;D

Dave.
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2011, 11:57:15 am »
I second that.
Blaming Agilent for this is not right, they had nothing to with it, it is the dealer at fault here.
You should contact Agilent directly and explain it all.
Dave.

But there is one interesting thing also there. Why would the dealer not replace it if Agilent would do it too? They have nothing to lose personally except gain a happy customer. They actually did complain at some time that warranty claims are handled hard by Agilent and they even dont pay shipping unit to them and back for failed units. And Agilent does not respond to my complaint also, is it  coincidence ?
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Offline kaz911

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2011, 12:47:08 pm »
I just spoke to a dealer - and according to them an Agilent Demo unit can only be sold after 6 months in the dealers hands. So that might be the "cause" of the problems that the dealer sold a demo unit to you without having it for 6 months. That can give them some problems with Agilent. But Agilent should not pass the problems on to you....

Anyway. Usually if you have intermittent boot's in a computer (which is what the DSOX is) - it is either memory faults or more likely a daft power supply. I'd check the power supply and compare to Daves notes from the review.

Anyway - if you do not want it - then advertise it HERE? There might be some adventurous people would would buy it and expect to fix it. :-)

-kaz
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2011, 01:15:28 pm »
I just spoke to a dealer - and according to them an Agilent Demo unit can only be sold after 6 months in the dealers hands. So that might be the "cause" of the problems that the dealer sold a demo unit to you without having it for 6 months. That can give them some problems with Agilent. But Agilent should not pass the problems on to you....

Anyway. Usually if you have intermittent boot's in a computer (which is what the DSOX is) - it is either memory faults or more likely a daft power supply. I'd check the power supply and compare to Daves notes from the review.

Anyway - if you do not want it - then advertise it HERE? There might be some adventurous people would would buy it and expect to fix it. :-)


Im not sure about this unit being demo since all acessories were packed nice originally sealed. Also i have seen manufacturing (or shipping) date on the box (i cant remeber now) and i know it was dated about month earlier than what i had in hands so it was surely not 6 months old. I have no fear of repairing the unit but first i have expected to recieve some help or answer from Agilent, and i recieved nothing. Also i would expect to find atleast one sign of demo unit (stickers or whatever) but i could not

Im wondering will they react towards me now when i said my opinion in public.
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Offline kaz911

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2011, 01:20:20 pm »
You can't tell a demo unit from a normal unit.... they are not labeled as demo. They are meant to look just like the normal scope. The only difference is the dealer buys it at a great discount compared to normal units. Apart from that - everything is the same. But the dealer is not allowed to sell it before he had it for 6 months. (Else some dealers would ONLY sell Demo units...)
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2011, 01:29:05 pm »
For example before i bought my Fluke 199C i got one to try it out. The unit had clear "DEMO - NOT FOR RESALE" text when turned on and below FN keys there was printed the same text.

Since Agilent sells them after the demo period then they dont label them. However it was maybe on a store "look" demo. Because when i first connected a probe the copper circle behind BNC has becomed little bit damaged (the contact probe point draws a circle when you connect/discconect a probe) and there was not any. This atleast gives some insurance it was not used.
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Offline Nermash

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2011, 01:46:35 pm »
Few years ago, my company was authorized distributor for professional video products. Under that agreement we were obliged to purchase some models as demo units at special discounted pricing. We were also not allowed to sell it for some period, I think 3 months or so. Sometimes we used to sell it sooner, sometime later, but always! every unit we sold was covered by standard 24 month warranty.
I suspect this is the thing with Agilent dealer, he had to purchase one 3000 series as demo, and your order conveniently came at the "right" time. So they ordered the demo at special pricing, told you that your order is delayed (they never ordered it), and pocketed nice margin in price.
Only thing is, now they won't honour the warranty, altough the don't have to say to Agilent they sold the demo...

I don't know what is the thing with Agilent dealers in SE Europe, I asked two times for two different quotes, and both times I had to resend the inquiry. Once I received a response that they never got my first request, but even then they didn't gave me a quote!
Second time I again had to resend inquiry, and I received a quote with 2 or 3x inflated price.

So Agilent, change your dealers in Croatia and BiH, obviously they do more harm than good!
 

Offline hacklordsniper

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Re: Noise problem on Agilent oscilloscopes
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2011, 02:27:06 pm »

told you that your order is delayed (they never ordered it), and pocketed nice margin in price.

I don't know what is the thing with Agilent dealers in SE Europe, I asked two times for two different quotes, and both times I had to resend the inquiry. Once I received a response that they never got my first request, but even then they didn't gave me a quote!
Second time I again had to resend inquiry, and I received a quote with 2 or 3x inflated price.

So Agilent, change your dealers in Croatia and BiH, obviously they do more harm than good!

I completly agree with bolded text and believe that could be verry possible.

Yeah Agilents dealer here is total crap and i see you did not have better experience either. One of the best dealers i came by here is Fluke, and second best experience is Hameg (which does not have a dealer (just third hand importers) ) but once i chatted them about one of their bench voltmeters and they really spent alot of time to assist me, and anytime you ask nicely for service manual you will get it
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