Online tech bullies?

[SL4P]

NOT EEVblog, but I've noticed on some sites & forums, that when a relative newcomer - regardless of the depths of their knowledge - there are long time 'lurkers', who may also have valuable experience, but can't bear to have someone else receiving positive feedback on the site.

Isn't human nature a strange beast.
What's their problem?

[ataradov]

That's too vague. Let's say you had a question "How to check if that socket in the wall has power?". You can receive plenty of positive feedback for "stick your fingers in there and if it tickles, then there is power" from other noobs, but you will obviously get some flack from someone experienced.

Example above is too primitive, of course, but it can be translated to almost any field and topic.

There are so many bad advices given on Arduino forums, that it is surprising how little "bullying" is going on.

And people giving positive feedback are often giving it based on the fact that advice worked for them, not how good that advice is in general.

[German_EE]

There are a number of problems when it comes to beginners and online forums and sometimes this can lead to short tempers. The main problem is that people don't do their research before posting their question, if they did then they would find that either a) the solution to their problem is common knowledge and available on Google or b) the question has been asked countless times before and they can't be bothered to use the forums search function. Some examples:

1) How do I make a dipole antenna for short wave? There are thousands of pictures and hundreds of descriptions all showing the same dipole antenna with 33 feet on each leg and some ladder line going down to the transceiver/receiver.

2) I have a 12V 20A power supply, can I use it to power my 12V 2A equipment? A question which is basic electronics and, again, amply covered on Google. As an alternative you can also experiment and see what happens when you place a 2A load on a 20A supply.

3) I've just built my project and it doesn't work, HELP ME!! Well, it would be good if you could do some basic fault finding first, describe what you've done and the symptoms that you see or don't see. We are not mind readers.

4) How does (x) work? Start by reading the manual or looking it up on the Internet, then get back to us.

I spend a lot of time in the beginners section of EEVBlog and the quality of questions asked can be very low and maybe people now expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plate rather than actually doing a little work. In such an environment it's not surprising that newcomers have a hard time and sometimes I have to walk away rather than write something unkind.

[SL4P]

Good references!
I guess the direction I was referring to - was more directed toward micros and software projects.

A question is asked, with a plethora of  inane responses, and a sprinkling of well thought answers... some with a worked example. (Some of the questions don't even deserve an answer!)

Along comes the know-it-all bully, that puts down earlier well developed replies - despite there always being many ways to solve the problem... some more elegantly than theirs.  They can't stand the idea that another 'helper' challenges their 'supremacy' in mediocrity!

It just concerns me that legitimate newbies, asking legitimate questions may get the idea that 'all' help is hostile, and you can't trust anyone.

[StuUK]

Along comes the know-it-all bully, that puts down earlier well developed replies - despite there always being many ways to solve the problem... some more elegantly than theirs.  They can't stand the idea that another 'helper' challenges their 'supremacy' in mediocrity!

That's life whether online or not..... you can elect to ignore them....

[DimitriP]

It just concerns me that legitimate newbies, asking legitimate questions may get the idea that 'all' help is hostile, and you can't trust anyone.

If their search engine is working, they'll figure out the internet is a little bigger than any one forum or site.

[AF6LJ]

There are two amateur radio sites in the US that are not only hostile to newcomers but they are also hostile toward females.

It's their loss...

[bitslice]

The forums with attitude that I see are the Electricians and Gas ones, where they don't want to discuss how to do anything because it takes a job away from them, and their trade organisations make this worse by inventing more and more convoluted rules in order to justify their own existence.
The rest of the time they bait each other by trying to trip up other qualified tradespeople, by being pedantic over those same convoluted rules.

[VK3DRB]

Nothing worse than a technical smart arse know-it-all prick.

I will never forget when visited McGraths in Melbourne in 1979 to buy a 6X5 valve ("vacuum tube" to foreigners) for my old Kikusui oscilloscope to replace a valve that had an open circuit heating element. As I was purchasing the valve for $2.20, some smart arse stranger next to me out aloud so all could hear "Huh, it's a rectifier. Why don't you just use a diode? Don't you know anything about electronics! Just use a diode!!!! I guess we all had to be beginners once. Ha ha." I was acutely embarrassed and intimidated. I would give a $1000 to meet that moron today and see what HE has done with electronics compared to me in our careers. I would top it off with some free direct contact counselling.

About 6 years ago I worked with a software contractor who got VERY agitated out loud if you did not know something he did. People skills zero. Any wonder his wife divorced him. He never got on with anyone. Last I heard they were about to give him the boot, but he left anyway.

Occasionally you get smart-arse yuppies speaking crap to get ahead. One I really dislike was overused by "Mr Figjam", a manager at IBM was, "Show me the metrics!". He other B.S. speak consisted of  "Let's take it offline" and an ad-nauseum of  acronyms. It worked for him. Despite not being too clever, he played the game and became a 3th level manager. But real technical people rarely went anywhere in IBM.

Thanks for reading my rant. Now, SHOW ME THE METRICS!

[CatalinaWOW]

One of the problems is that for the vast majority of us the use of these forums is recreational.  Which often means that  little time will be spent understanding the context of a problem and thinking through an appropriate response.  To what was a question posed with equally little effort. 

[Brumby]

Despite not being too clever, he played the game and became a _______ manager. Real technical people rarely went anywhere in _______.

It's a sorry thing to be able to say: Generic picture - just fill in the blanks.

I've got a couple of examples of my own.

[SL4P]

One of the problems is that for the vast majority of us the use of these forums is recreational.  Which often means that  little time will be spent understanding the context of a problem and thinking through an appropriate response.  To what was a question posed with equally little effort.

I think that gets close to a lot of the problem... and a lot of Trump wannabe's!

[AF6LJ]

One of the problems is that for the vast majority of us the use of these forums is recreational.  Which often means that  little time will be spent understanding the context of a problem and thinking through an appropriate response.  To what was a question posed with equally little effort.

I think that gets close to a lot of the problem... and a lot of Trump wannabe's!

I really don't see where politics need enter into this discussion.
What stupid demagogue someone believes has little to do with the problem.
The root of the problem is socialization; or the lack thereof the "bully" was exposed to during the time his or her parent was responsible for their upbringing.

[sarepairman2]

can you show me the metrics?

[EEVblog]

Engineers tend to be quite direct and generally lack tact 

[SL4P]

+1 to that!

[AF6LJ]

Engineers tend to be quite direct and generally lack tact 

That explains why many have lives that resemble a train wreck. 

[Cerebus]

I think that gets close to a lot of the problem... and a lot of Trump wannabe's!

I really don't see where politics need enter into this discussion.

I think it was a remark about Trump's obviously delightful character and personality not his politics.

[AntiProtonBoy]

This kind of thing is also very prevalent in software engineering circles.

If you are a n00b, the trick is not take any of this personally, be humble and just learn. If you are a pro, the trick is to be patient and not getting shitty over hearing the same questions a million times.

One thing I really hate is an environment or platform that discourages people from asking questions. There is always  that one prick, who says "X was a stupid question". There is no such thing as a stupid question.

[SL4P]

This kind of thing is also very prevalent in software engineering circles.

If you are a n00b, the trick is not take any of this personally, be humble and just learn. If you are a pro, the trick is to be patient and not getting shitty over hearing the same questions a million times.

One thing I really hate is an environment or platform that discourages people from asking questions. There is always  that one prick, who says "X was a stupid question". There is no such thing as a stupid question.

The people that get my attention, are those otherwise experienced responders that put down other 'helpers' with proven solutions - just because it's not the way they'd do it - or they aren't as clever as they think...!

[Shock]

Going back to the original post.

The longer a forum is established, the larger the selection of users it can sample from who is out there. So during this time you are going to get all the usual, men pretending to be woman, woman pretending to be men, pedophiles, stalkers, every flavor of sexual preference, religion and race, stone cold killers to saints. All with different upbringings and core beliefs.

So you would wonder how can people this different get along at all? Well they can't really, it's only tolerance from others that allows an individual to be accepted. Try pushing an alternate personal agenda too hard and you will soon find yourself an outcast.

The only exception to this is what moderators allow or tolerate, it's their job to keep peace and settle disputes (at their leisure). If users are allowed to get away with bullying or harassment for no reason they will lose users who don't want to be a part of it.

[hamster_nz]

To me it seems they feel a need to defend the group from perceived interlopers.  The stronger the group's pecking order the stronger the urge seems to fight for a place towards the top of the pack, and some do it by pushing others down.

EEVblog doesn't appear to have that strong a pecking order, mainly because most of us know how little we know outside of our own areas of interest and experience.

[SL4P]

Interesting...
What effect would it have to remove the number of posts from a user's sidebar...?

Not that I'm saying EEVblog has much of an ego problem, but I just wonder if people would pay more or less attention to a blow-hard poster if they 'appeared' the same as everyone else?

[ataradov]

What effect would it have to remove the number of posts from a user's sidebar...?

I was very vocal about removing "thanks" from the side bar and got some flack for that. I don't think removing post count will go well

On the other hand, I do want to know how new the poster is. I've seen forums where post count is hidden in the profile, but number of posts is reflected in the number of stars next to the name (1 star - 1-99 posts, 2 stars 100-199 posts, etc until 5 stars). This makes it pointless to compete after 500 posts.

[djacobow]

There is a well-known phenomenon called The Dunning-Kruger Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) wherein, somewhat counter-intuitively, people with the least knowledge are the most confident, and those with the deepest knowledge are less confident or at least more circumspect. As you learn more, you become more aware of how much there is to know, and how little you do know.

EE is a big field. There are a few sub-fields that I am rather expert at, and many more that I have middling understanding, and a bunch that I really don't know what I'm doing. I try to behave appropriately depending on what sub-field we're talking about, but it's hard sometimes on the Internet to know when you're talking to an expert or a beginner who thinks he's an expert. Add in some weak communications skills, and you can sometimes create a bad experience. To all the people I may have offended on this board over the years, I offer my apologies. Unless you deserved it, of course.