Orlando airport after battery explodes in bag, causing panic and evacuation

[bd139]

No one visibly gives a fuck here in the UK apart from people who's job it is to give a fuck about it. That's SOP here

Having got stuck in the whole 7/7 bomb thing, most people were just annoyed about not being able to get home or there being a coffee drought than actually worrying about being blown up.

I have to disagree there. Even though the general public might carry on with their lives, the response of society has been to introduce and support a number of laws in the name of national security which could easily be classified as draconic.

No one gives a fuck about them either. If the tea or biscuits get spilled we’ll kick off but not before. Laws are “recommendations” here.

[Cerebus]

1. It was a nutjob, and not a terrorist

There is no difference my friend.

Every difference. If by 'nutjob' we genuinely mean someone with a psychiatric illness, then one should lead to an examination of public provision for the treatment of mental illness and why this person "fell through the cracks" and the other is a very different kettle of fish. They might both have political solutions but motivationally and morally they are worlds apart.

[tszaboo]

1. It was a nutjob, and not a terrorist

There is no difference my friend.

That is actually very true.
In any case, it was a local, certified nutjob, working alone. They found unsent emails trying to bribe the govmt. for money, and they claimed he wanted to take the sidearms of the unfortunate policewoman injured.

[Mr. Scram]

Not really meant to be taken seriously, except as a social parable.

Sorry, I mistook it for a more factual story. It's hard to distinguish these things on the web sometimes.

[Mr. Scram]

No one gives a fuck about them either. If the tea or biscuits get spilled we’ll kick off but not before. Laws are “recommendations” here.

I don't think the three people convicted for not devulging their encryption passwords would fully agree. Though the GCHQ might indeed agree

[tszaboo]

NOTICE: Keep this thread on track or it gets locked or off-topic political posts deleted.

I predict, that this thread will be locked in about 2 pages.
I'm surprised, that the other one, discussing sexism isn't locked yet.

[madires]

Another tidbit:

TSA fails most tests in latest undercover operation at US airports:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188

[Mr. Scram]

Another tidbit:

TSA fails most tests in latest undercover operation at US airports:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188

If memory serves me, they consistently fail these tests.

[CJay]

Whilst, with the benefit of hindsight, I do think security (especially american) often over-reacts and I would have mightily pissed off if my plane had been cancelled/delayed I can understand the decision making/procedures used.

I am lead to believe, by a commercial pilot acquaintance, that it's easier to get into and out of China and Russia than America these days, so scared are the TSA

[tooki]

The thing is, all this security theater robs us of real rights, and it distracts from real dangers. I'd rather that passengers be less haggard (after all the airport inconvenience) and more alert, which could observe real danger.

As for me, I'm flying to USA soon, and am looking forward to seeing how much time Global Entry (which includes TSA Pre-Check) saves in Newark. At least I'll be able to leave my shoes on and gadgets in the bag.

[Cerebus]

The thing is, all this security theater robs us of real rights, and it distracts from real dangers. I'd rather that passengers be less haggard (after all the airport inconvenience) and more alert, which could observe real danger.

I'll go on record as saying that I refuse to travel to the US nowadays. The security theatre carries a real risk to harmless, legitimate travellers like myself that they can find themselves detained in some apparently constitution and law free zone if they aren't uber-deferential to the TSA goons, or do something silly like insisting on their rights, or have a common name (like David Jones) that has found its way onto a watch list. I regard the risk from the TSA and the official paranoia and fear, as far in excess of of the risk from any actual terrorists. I wonder what the economic cost is in tourism and trade from people who think like me has been to the US (and other countries that kowtow to their neurotic version of security).

[CJay]

The thing is, all this security theater robs us of real rights, and it distracts from real dangers. I'd rather that passengers be less haggard (after all the airport inconvenience) and more alert, which could observe real danger.

As for me, I'm flying to USA soon, and am looking forward to seeing how much time Global Entry (which includes TSA Pre-Check) saves in Newark. At least I'll be able to leave my shoes on and gadgets in the bag.

Good grief, we agree on something

Yes, the whole 'you're gonna die because we can't read your emails/twitter/facebook/whatsapp' is a ridiculous price to pay for the vanishingly small risk of being involved in a terrorist incident.

Privacy seems to be becoming a commodity that is only afforded to those who are rich enough to buy it though if it could be guaranteed that all politician's, public figure's, media mogul's data were subject to the same level of scrutiny and exposure I might consider it a price almost worth paying (joking, everyone is entitled to privacy, the argument 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' is a vile joke used to persuade the hard of thinking that constant intrusion is necessary to protect them)

[tooki]

The thing is, all this security theater robs us of real rights, and it distracts from real dangers. I'd rather that passengers be less haggard (after all the airport inconvenience) and more alert, which could observe real danger.

I'll go on record as saying that I refuse to travel to the US nowadays. The security theatre carries a real risk to harmless, legitimate travellers like myself that they can find themselves detained in some apparently constitution and law free zone if they aren't uber-deferential to the TSA goons, or do something silly like insisting on their rights, or have a common name (like David Jones) that has found its way onto a watch list. I regard the risk from the TSA and the official paranoia and fear, as far in excess of of the risk from any actual terrorists. I wonder what the economic cost is in tourism and trade from people who think like me has been to the US (and other countries that kowtow to their neurotic version of security).

Though I fundamentally agree with you, just a little clarification, you’re confusing TSA and CBP.

TSA is a largely merely annoying troupe that takes your water and butter knives and ogles you on the perv scanners. But TSA agents have no power to arrest you, they must call police. You encounter TSA at security screening only.

CBP (customs and border patrol) is a law enforcement agency, and you encounter them on arrival into USA. They have broad enforcement powers and can detain you. And from what 45 has told them to do, I dot blame foreigners who don’t wanna deal with it.

For me, I’m American and want to visit home, and as a citizen I’m far less likely to be scrutinized anyway. But I totally understand foreigners saying “screw that, I’ll go somewhere welcoming”.

[iainwhite]

As for me, I'm flying to USA soon, and am looking forward to seeing how much time Global Entry (which includes TSA Pre-Check) saves in Newark. At least I'll be able to leave my shoes on and gadgets in the bag.

Global entry usually saves me a ton of time returning to the US at Newark.   You go thru special lanes and use a computerized system that photographs you and gives you a receipt that you hand in at the exit. Apart from one time when the photo part went wrong, I have consistently gone straight thru in maybe 5-10 mins.

[Cerebus]

Though I fundamentally agree with you, just a little clarification, you’re confusing TSA and CBP.

Yeah, I wasn't making any real efforts to be precise, just using "TSA" as shorthand for goons in uniform in general.

[tooki]

As for me, I'm flying to USA soon, and am looking forward to seeing how much time Global Entry (which includes TSA Pre-Check) saves in Newark. At least I'll be able to leave my shoes on and gadgets in the bag.

Global entry usually saves me a ton of time returning to the US at Newark.   You go thru special lanes and use a computerized system that photographs you and gives you a receipt that you hand in at the exit. Apart from one time when the photo part went wrong, I have consistently gone straight thru in maybe 5-10 mins.

Cool, glad to hear that. I’m especially curious how the TSA Pre-Check lines are, since I have a connecting flight and thus must clear security again. (Usually I’ve found the immigration to go quickly, but a longer line at customs/agriculture. I’m hoping Global Entry helps there.)

[iainwhite]

Cool, glad to hear that. I’m especially curious how the TSA Pre-Check lines are, since I have a connecting flight and thus must clear security again. (Usually I’ve found the immigration to go quickly, but a longer line at customs/agriculture. I’m hoping Global Entry helps there.)

TSA-Pre is faster than the regular security lines, and somewhat faster than the fast-track Frequent-flier lines at Newark.
The problem is that so many people have TSA-pre now that the lines get quite crowded, compared to say 5 years ago.

Customs is handled on entry to the US, not at security, and is fast-tracked for Global entry members - there is a special line that allows you to bypass the regular line (at least there is at terminal B)  - you go thru the Global Entry machines at immigration, then downstairs to the baggage pickup, then out thru customs in the special line.

[IanMacdonald]

I think it has to be remembered that the purpose of terrorism is not specifically to cause death. It is to cause disruption.

[BradC]

I think it has to be remembered that the purpose of terrorism is not specifically to cause death. It is to cause disruption.

It's really about causing fear / terror. That whole "keep looking over your shoulder as you don't know if you'll be next". Thankfully a majority of the world is apathetic enough that it doesn't really work as well as intended. A side affect however is the continual "plugging of holes" approach to security and the resulting disruption that causes.

[Mr. Scram]

It's really about causing fear / terror. That whole "keep looking over your shoulder as you don't know if you'll be next". Thankfully a majority of the world is apathetic enough that it doesn't really work as well as intended. A side affect however is the continual "plugging of holes" approach to security and the resulting disruption that causes.

That disruption is an instrument. Terrorists know that it's not possible for them to directly damage our society and the values we hold dear. That's why they need to manipulate us into doing it ourselves. We can do a lot more damage than any terrorist group ever can. Therefore, instead of a direct attack, they strike fear in our hearts, causing us to lash out and strangle ourselves more and more, until nothing of value is left. You can't protect what you cherish by destroying it, yet that seems exactly what we're doing. Another effect is that attacks polarize society. Nuance is the death of extremisms, in both the literal and practical sense, so they try to eliminate the middle ground. When nuance and reason go, the only things left aren't very pleasant.

Though the attackers themselves might not be aware of the political purposes of these attacks, you can be very sure the extremist top brass knows exactly what they're doing. These are highly educated people, often with a background in the military or politics. It's not just a bunch of guys with guns in the desert.

[tszaboo]

Doh.

[Cerebus]

It's not just a bunch of guys with guns in the desert.

No usually the top guys dont even have guns. They only have beards.
And infinite hatred towards infidels, aka people who have brains and free will to decide for themselves.

It's not as simplistic as that.

By reducing a very complex situation to 'they hate us', you kind of prove Scram's point (in the very same message you quote from, no less):

Nuance is the death of extremisms, in both the literal and practical sense, so they try to eliminate the middle ground. When nuance and reason go, the only things left aren't very pleasant.

We'll never get out of this mire if both sides just reduce the whole thing to 'they hate us, so it's OK to kill them'.

[tszaboo]

Doh

[Lord of nothing]

Dont worry there are just single incidents!
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1_rNT3k2ZXB-f9z-2nSFMIBQKXCs&hl=en_US&ll=50.39070659634407%2C17.384760695996192&z=5

[Cerebus]

I'm not going to answer directly to this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Buda_(1541)
Fool me once...

Normally I'd applaud a historical reference (because "Those who don't learn history are condemned to repeat..." ) but that's a pretty poor defence of the implied argument that the Ottomans/Turks/modern-day-men-with-beards are out to get us, end of argument, no need for any subtlety or nuance in discussing it. That's pretty much just a re-run of The Siege of Troy with one or two details changed. So presumably you're advocating an un-nuanced eradication campaign again the Greeks as well, on the basis of 'they've got history for this sort of thing'*?

*Obviously if one added "the songs of Demis Roussos" into the evidence against the Greeks one might have a cogent argument for invasion, but I digress.