Please tell me I’m not alone (new Star Trek movies)

[james_s]

TNG would easily have been my favorite if they had got rid of Wesley or at least toned down the super genius aspect of him a bit. I felt like that was SO overdone along with Picard's disdain for him that it just got annoying. No one person is going to effortlessly save the day so often by being ridiculously smart, and no competent captain is going to blatantly ignore obvious talent for so long.

[tooki]

There are many aspects of TNG that didn’t age well, ultimately. They don’t make it bad, but it is looking more corny than I kinda expected it would feel at this point.

[james_s]

Not to derail this thread too much but I watched a few episodes of Macgyver a while back, talk about not aging well. I loved that show when I was a kid but man is it corny now.

[vtwin@cox.net]

I grew up with Trek. I remember watching TOS Friday nights as a kid (I was 4 at the time and had to beg my parents to let me stay up to watch it.)

But, most of my original TOS viewing was in syndicated re-runs in the 70's.

I was in high school when the TMP came out. A bunch of us skipped school that afternoon so we could get in to the first showing, a Friday matinee. What a disappointment at so many different levels.

II, III and IV were definitely the best movies of the TOS series, and of those, IV was probably the "best" in terms of storyline and II the best in terms of action. By the time V and VI came out, it was clear the crew was getting a bit "long in the tooth" to make it believable any longer, and it really was time to put it to rest.

Went to quite a few fan conventions during this timeframe too... was great to see Doohan, Keonig and Takei. Had breakfast (one of 20 of us) with Takei in Boston at one of the conventions. Saw Nimoy at a convention in NYC on New Year's weekend back in the late 80's. Never saw Shatner or Kelley. Was at a convention in Boston hosted by the BSTA where I got to see Majel Barrett and Roddenberry, and several others, including Robin Curtis. The BSTA (Boston Star Trek Association) hosted the convention. It was between III and IV... Since at the time the big debate in Trekdom was whether or not Savik "assisted" adolescent Spock through his first "Pon Farr", we threw her a baby shower There are pictures of the convention out there on the internet, fortunately, I'm not in any of them, even if I was, I probably couldn't recognize myself given it was... oh, almost 35 years ago! 35 years... wow... hard to believe that when I say it (my wife is 37 so she was 2 back then lol)

TNG started out as a disappointment (when Roddenberry was writing the episodes) but the latter seasons were really good. I thought all the movies were excellent, especially when they got Marina Sirtis out of that bizarre head weave and let her wear her hair straight. At the time, I couldn't appreciate Picard, but now, in retrospect, being older, I can. Wesley always annoyed the piss out of me. My biggest complaint about the series was "everything has a technical solution". The series is still good watching (at least, seasons 2+). Season 1 is... well... tedious to get through.

I was never a huge DS9 fan. I did watch it, but always thought in the back of my head "its a space station... its not like it is going anywhere". I think I watched it more for Terry Farrell I've watched it in re-runs and it isn't horrible. Okay filler. When it comes to space station scifi, my go-to was always Babylon 5. I miss Jerry Doyle, god rest his soul.

I really liked Voyager. I know many people do not for various reasons, but overall I thought the show brought ST back to its "roots", e.g. travelling through the unknown and encountering new species/problems/etc. My wife absolutely hates it (since she grew up with TNG and to some degree DS9). The series finale was a bit hokey, they could have done it better.

I watched Enterprise recently, I was sorry to see they killed the show off just as it was starting to get good. My mom used to love Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap... He's aged quite well. At least, as of 10 year ago, when they made Enterprise. (again, 10 years, wow, tempus fugit!)

So far Discovery has been "okay". It is still early though, with only a dozen or so episodes (not even 1/2 a season worth from the old TOS days) and time will tell. I know it has gotten a lot of criticism as having a lot of "politically correct" themes in it, but I really haven't experienced that in my viewing. At least, nothing that bothers me (female protagonists don't threaten me as they do some, I guess.)

As for the reboot movies, I've seen one. It was okay. But in order for it to work, I have to suspend my knowledge/belief/etc in what I already know of Trek, which is extremely difficult to do.

[james_s]

I really liked Voyager. I know many people do not for various reasons, but overall I thought the show brought ST back to its "roots", e.g. travelling through the unknown and encountering new species/problems/etc. My wife absolutely hates it (since she grew up with TNG and to some degree DS9). The series finale was a bit hokey, they could have done it better.

I watched Enterprise recently, I was sorry to see they killed the show off just as it was starting to get good. My mom used to love Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap... He's aged quite well. At least, as of 10 year ago, when they made Enterprise. (again, 10 years, wow, tempus fugit!)

I thought Voyager was pretty good, although occasionally the captain grated on me somewhat, she was too rigid about following the rules to the letter even in situations where any rational person would see that it made sense to deviate.

Enterprise started out terrible, the very first moment the theme song came on I cringed and thought "WTF is this?!" and throughout the series it never grew on me. It was so horrendously awful that I started having to fast forward past it as soon as the music started. The first couple seasons were pretty hokey, silly plots and a lot of really forced feeling sexual tension. Then it started to get better, the 4th season was really quite good then as you say, they axed it right at the point where it seemed like it had gotten into the swing of things and become a worthwhile show. It still had that awful theme song though, funny thing is if the song came on the radio in a different context it probably wouldn't bother me, but it just wasn't "Star Trek" at all. It's like if you're expecting vanilla icecream but realize you've taken a bite of mashed potatoes instead.

[bd139]

Voyager was worth it for the doctor.

[james_s]

Yeah the doctor was one of the better characters. Whenever I see that actor in something else I picture him as Voyager's doctor.

[BrianHG]

Speaking of:

[MarkF]

Have you seen this series effort (Star Trek Continues - 11 episodes)

[Fred27]

I'm just going to state that I liked "The Orville" and run away.

[coppercone2]

The orville is great and so is the cornyness of TOS. Keep in mind sailors used to have rum rations till the 70s officially. Space might be pretty goofy when its not super novel

[Bassman59]

There are many aspects of TNG that didn’t age well, ultimately. They don’t make it bad, but it is looking more corny than I kinda expected it would feel at this point.

I missed TNG when it first aired. I was still in college when it started and I rarely had time to sit and watch TV and it was more fun going to NYC to see bands. And after college, I actually never bothered to get a TV set.

So I recently started watching it from the beginning, thanks to Hulu, and oh my god that first season has some really awful episodes. That show where Wesley is on the Aryan planet and he breaks the law by accidentally going off of a path and breaks something, and is sentenced to death. PLEASE NO.

[GregDunn]

You’re not alone. I can’t stand anything JJ Abrams touches — to me, he’s like the King Midas of turning things to shit.

As for the (real) Star Trek, I’ll be a bit of a heretic and say that DS9 is my favorite, with it being a tie between TNG and VOY for second favorite, as TNG begins to really show its age (especially seasons 1-3). I enjoy TOS, but it never captivated me quite the same way as TNG and later did.

Discovery is looking promising. It has more lens flare than I’d choose, but the storytelling feels like proper Trek.

Enterprise... took a while to get off the ground and was killed more or less right as it began to find its stride.

TOS was the only show I made time to watch when it was first aired.  It's not so much that it's great (though there were a few outstanding episodes) but that it broke new ground for TV and dared to talk about real world issues in the "safe" context of SF and aliens.  No other Trek has done this so effectively, except maybe:

DS9 - I wasn't interested when it was on TV because it was clearly stealing ideas left and right from Babylon 5 (confirmed, incidentally, by numerous cast and crew members).  But I went back and watched it on Prime a couple of years ago and was very surprised - after the first couple of seasons spent flailing around, it settles down nicely and really delivers some good storytelling.  Plus, lots of humanized, believable antagonists and real conflict instead of the "tech trick of the week"... though the babble does intrude occasionally.  Avery Brooks and Andrew Robinson should have gotten Emmies for what they did.

TNG was fun when it was on TV, but it really doesn't hold up at all - except for a handful of scripts.  It almost seems to mock itself every time something technical becomes the main plot of an episode... which is most of them.  If not for Patrick Stewart, I wouldn't even bother with the reruns.

Enterprise - couldn't get through the first season.  I wanted to throat punch most of the cast.

The new movies are just plain bad cinema - what one of my historian friends calls "blow-up films."  He loves TOS, incidentally, citing its characterization and real SF writers as examples of how good TV could be.  I admit there were moments in "Beyond" which were amusing, though still not up to the level of the worst of the TOS-based movies.

When it comes to watching a well-designed and written SF series, I will still put in my Babylon 5 DVDs before any of the Trek or SW video.  Any series which the NASA organization essentially made required watching for their employees.... well.

[bd139]

There are many aspects of TNG that didn’t age well, ultimately. They don’t make it bad, but it is looking more corny than I kinda expected it would feel at this point.

You've got to look at it in context though. It was 1987.

I'd say it aged pretty well although the future came a bit early.

[tooki]

I really liked Voyager. I know many people do not for various reasons, but overall I thought the show brought ST back to its "roots", e.g. travelling through the unknown and encountering new species/problems/etc. My wife absolutely hates it (since she grew up with TNG and to some degree DS9). The series finale was a bit hokey, they could have done it better.

I watched Enterprise recently, I was sorry to see they killed the show off just as it was starting to get good. My mom used to love Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap... He's aged quite well. At least, as of 10 year ago, when they made Enterprise. (again, 10 years, wow, tempus fugit!)

I thought Voyager was pretty good, although occasionally the captain grated on me somewhat, she was too rigid about following the rules to the letter even in situations where any rational person would see that it made sense to deviate.

Enterprise started out terrible, the very first moment the theme song came on I cringed and thought "WTF is this?!" and throughout the series it never grew on me. It was so horrendously awful that I started having to fast forward past it as soon as the music started. The first couple seasons were pretty hokey, silly plots and a lot of really forced feeling sexual tension. Then it started to get better, the 4th season was really quite good then as you say, they axed it right at the point where it seemed like it had gotten into the swing of things and become a worthwhile show. It still had that awful theme song though, funny thing is if the song came on the radio in a different context it probably wouldn't bother me, but it just wasn't "Star Trek" at all. It's like if you're expecting vanilla icecream but realize you've taken a bite of mashed potatoes instead.

I honestly think that that horrific theme song is significantly responsible for the show’s poor response. It totally puts out the wrong vibe for Trek, and consequently put off a lot of the real Trek fans — which Braga said was not their target audience (they’d wanted to downplay the Trek name and go beyond Trekkies/Trekkers... it backfired and neither attracted new fans nor appealed to Trek fans.) Braga said people would get used to the theme song, but to me it’s like nails on chalkboard, every single time, even years later. I watch like a hawk to fast-forward it every time I watch an episode.

[tooki]

I'm just going to state that I liked "The Orville" and run away.

No, stay!!

I’m a Trekkie and also loved Galaxy Quest, The Orville, and USS Calister (the Black Mirror episode) — all of those are IMHO loving parodies of Trek.

[Wan Huang Luo]

Braga said people would get used to the theme song, but to me it’s like nails on chalkboard, every single time, even years later. I watch like a hawk to fast-forward it every time I watch an episode.

That theme song turned me off to the show so badly that I didn't make it past 30 seconds of watching Enterprise in its entirety.
And 30 seconds is being generous.

[coppercone2]

does anyone feel like TOS is more timeless then TNG? There are some episode exceptions but most of it you watch it and it just feels odd in a indescribable way.

[Bassman59]

does anyone feel like TOS is more timeless then TNG? There are some episode exceptions but most of it you watch it and it just feels odd in a indescribable way.

None of the follow-ons had episodes anywhere as good as "The City On The Edge Of Forever" or "All Our Yesterdays."

[chris_leyson]

I grew up with the original series and was quite surprised at how many episodes the BBC didn't show. “Miri”, “Plato’s Stepchildren”, “The Empath”, “Whom Gods Destroy” and “Patterns of Force”. Eventually they were broadcast when there were re-runs later on. I don't remember "Miri", will have to see if it's on youtube. I think some of the scripts were a bit predictable, formulaic sci-fi Mills and Boon sometimes. Having said that the Borg were pretty menacing though.

I really liked JJ Abrams Star Trek, the same shit but with new actors. Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto were well cast, especially Quinto and Simon Pegg actually worked quite well as Scotty. Star Trek into Darkness was a bit of a disapointment and I haven't Beyond yet. Can't say I'm waiting for Tarantinos direction.

[Wan Huang Luo]

does anyone feel like TOS is more timeless then TNG? There are some episode exceptions but most of it you watch it and it just feels odd in a indescribable way.

TOS has pretty good comedy value with Kirk and the green aliens he charms.

[German_EE]

None of the follow-ons had episodes anywhere as good as "The City On The Edge Of Forever" or "All Our Yesterdays."

Disagree
STTNG 'The Inner Light'

[Wan Huang Luo]

None of the follow-ons had episodes anywhere as good as "The City On The Edge Of Forever" or "All Our Yesterdays."

Disagree
STTNG 'The Inner Light'

For me its Darmok and Yesterday's Enterprise, but 'TIL' was a masterpiece too.

[coppercone2]

I like city on the edge of forever and the one with the national socialist planet. I think i saw em both when i was like 16 and they both bad me on the edge of my seat. Super impressive for an old tv program, like 0.1 percent of movies do this for me

[David Hess]

They had to kill Axanar in favor of Discovery if only because both cover the general war between the Federation and Klingon Empire; they should have hired them instead.  Then they got sued for plagiarism of a video game anyway.

The Orville is a hell of a lot better than Discovery.  Has anybody else other than me noticed its music?  Not only are they parodying every Star Trek series but also Star Wars.