Author Topic: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering  (Read 13537 times)

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Offline TheWelly888

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2017, 04:13:29 AM »
I was a schoolboy during the 1980s and I had a load of SJW-like crap forced down my throat by a few dogmatic teachers and some fellow pupils as well! All that put me off pursuing a career where politics rather than true objectivity reign which was why I choose engineering for university. I did notice a number of students were noisily sounding off about far-left wing stuff but they were just a noisy minority of the student body - everyone else were just down-to-earth people (both students and staff) and I had a good time at university.
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2017, 04:19:58 AM »
This will be an interesting thread to read. Let me bookmark it before it gets locked...  :popcorn:
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Offline vodka

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2017, 04:24:30 AM »
I'm going to be awful misogynist , male chauvinist and incorrect politically.

1.The medecine, biology , chemist, nursering ,etc all have some on common . The mayor part of the matter have to MEMORIZE. On resume ,the girls and women  tend to memorize(like parrot) when they are learning.

2.The girls and women tend to be very obedient and they don't tend to dispute the stuffs. They will tend to be lambs.

3. The girls and women tend to lose the head with the babies and low-age kids and when they can't supply these wishes, they tend to work on place  where there are children like kindergardens, schools and pedriatics.

All these afirmations have been recompiled of my own experiences with  classroom mates (both sex ).
I'll bite.

1) You've obviously not studied medicine, biology and chemistry. They rely on a deep level of understanding, not just memory.

2) Probably true to some extent. Women do tent to be more submissive, than men and this is not a bad thing, just a difference.

3) I wouldn't agree with that. Men tend to loose their temper with the children more often, than women and are more likely to resort to corporal punishment. Women are generally more empathetic, than men, which makes them better suited to caring for younger children.

I can talk more of the medicine because i have a various familiar and  90%  is memorize , the math almost dissappeared. The last time that i found with a parrot(female anesthesiologist doctor) ,practically it was a interrogation for knowing because  i  should take a gastric protector. Finally, i went out without she explained me the reason. Today i follow to think that she didn't  known it  to explain .

The temper isn't the  main reason ,you sight fine on the face of the women when they engage contact with  low-age kids  compared with aging kids(+10)  , they show more enthusiasm and  smile, and the women without sons is greater.


   

 

Offline Marco

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2017, 04:46:35 AM »
account, the gap persists. Look at the BBC's top paid list, as an example. They're mostly men, who get paid for doing exactly the same as their female co-stars.
Their female co-stars aren't being men ... if the audience prefers men their market rates will be higher.

No idea if that is true for presenters, but it is almost certainly true for movie stars (well, except porn ;))
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 04:48:40 AM by Marco »
 

Online IanB

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2017, 04:47:31 AM »
1) You've obviously not studied medicine, biology and chemistry. They rely on a deep level of understanding, not just memory.

Actually, I'm not so sure about medicine. I think modern doctors are mainly trained to be technicians. Based on my experience of recent encounters with doctors they have a checklist of "if this, then this" to work through, and little ability to depart from the script based on root cause analysis. This is unfortunate because they will often fail to look at the individual circumstances of a particular patient and understand how a particular presentation requires different actions than the textbook says for the "general case".
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2017, 04:57:46 AM »
That Dean of Purdue, she seems misguided.

University is the highest as far as education goes, and if STEM enrollment numbers are low there, well it's too late to fix at the university level, it's the end of the chain.

STEM interest is the product of parenting, grade-school, society, stereotypes, media etc.
It is something developed in children. I hope Adafruit's educational efforts succeed in getting more children into STEM, electronics. A much better approach, bottom up.

Socio-economic class is also a decider in not pursuing higher education.
I was poor as a kid and collected electronics out of dumpsters. University is expensive, I'm amazed I got a degree but I worked and paid my way.

The Dean, is she lowering tuition for the sake of "inclusion" ?
 

Offline alank2

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2017, 05:35:19 AM »
I disagree with the BBC's decision to pay Chris Evans more than his peers. He doesn't contribute more to ratings than the other stars, not that should be important to a public service broadcaster.

I don't know enough about the metrics used or the organization.  Isn't the BBC state funded?  Some organizations are run on a capitalist model internally and some are run differently.  I'm not sure we can assign the reasons without being privy to the way it runs internally or even the person who makes that decision or negotiates it.  It is a different set of negotiating rules when we are talking about an actor or actress who is part of a bigger show.  You can't just replace them as easily as you would a technical worker, thought replacing someone because of failed negotiation always has its costs unless they were not worth having in the first place.

wait - I was thinking that he worked for the BBC.  Now I think I'm getting what you are getting at.  If you mean "cap", well, movie stars are in a category all their own.  They negotiate and win or lose parts.   They are paid what it takes to get them.  Supply and demand like anything else.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 05:37:25 AM by alank2 »
 

Offline Hero999

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2017, 06:15:55 AM »
account, the gap persists. Look at the BBC's top paid list, as an example. They're mostly men, who get paid for doing exactly the same as their female co-stars.
Their female co-stars aren't being men ... if the audience prefers men their market rates will be higher.

No idea if that is true for presenters, but it is almost certainly true for movie stars (well, except porn ;))
The audiences didn't know how much they're paid, until recently. Personally that list correlates quite will with my least favourite TV personalities.

I disagree with the BBC's decision to pay Chris Evans more than his peers. He doesn't contribute more to ratings than the other stars, not that should be important to a public service broadcaster.

I don't know enough about the metrics used or the organization.  Isn't the BBC state funded?  Some organizations are run on a capitalist model internally and some are run differently.  I'm not sure we can assign the reasons without being privy to the way it runs internally or even the person who makes that decision or negotiates it.  It is a different set of negotiating rules when we are talking about an actor or actress who is part of a bigger show.  You can't just replace them as easily as you would a technical worker, thought replacing someone because of failed negotiation always has its costs unless they were not worth having in the first place.

wait - I was thinking that he worked for the BBC.  Now I think I'm getting what you are getting at.  If you mean "cap", well, movie stars are in a category all their own.  They negotiate and win or lose parts.   They are paid what it takes to get them.  Supply and demand like anything else.
The BBC is funded by an annual fee, charged to anyone with a TV set or who watches online. It is the UK's main non-commercial public service broadcaster. It does not show advertising, other than trailers for its own shows.

I would not agree with a pay cap. After all, the BBC has to compete with commercial broadcasters for talent.

I admit this might not have been the best example to pick but my point is, sexism still exists today. It might not like it was 50 years ago but it's still there and it's still likely a major contributory factor to the pay gap.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2017, 06:49:02 AM »
<NON Politically Correct Message>

That Dean of Purdue, she seems misguided.
[...]
I think not!
I think that she is an agent; a tool that promotes her masters's agenda. And this is the proof:

[...]
The alarming example at Purdue is:
Quote
"The recently appointed dean of Purdue’s school, Dr. Donna Riley, has an ambitious agenda.

In her words (italics mine): “I seek to revise engineering curricula to be relevant to a fuller range of student experiences and career destinations, integrating concerns related to public policy, professional ethics, and social responsibility; de-centering Western civilization; and uncovering contributions of women and other underrepresented groups…. We examine how technology influences and is influenced by globalization, capitalism, and colonialism…. Gender is a key…[theme]…[throughout] the course…. We…[examine]… racist and colonialist projects in science….”
Emphasis is mine.

Dave has nailed it!
Classic Marxist (and Company; see: Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist/etc.) propaganda of the globalist 'progressive' leftist point of view:

Why, really, does she demonise 'capitalism' only? What about 'socialism' or, better put, 'communism'? Are the latter ones beyond criticism?

Taking it a step further, what exactly does the Marxism (et al) dogma* preaching?
1. All the people are the same and equal (despite that there are not even two amoebas 'same' or 'equal' in ANY sense), and
2. - This was a nice presentation, dear Haim Mardochai Kissel.** Tell us, please, what is the role of Central Banks in that theoretical regime of yours that you presented to us? His answer was: - Central Banks? There is no such a thing, even over here...; even if two 75k Sterling Pounds checks, one for Marx and one for Nietzsche, signed by the Rothschilds are were displayed at the British Museum until recently...

Political Left & Right ideologies: When, how and by whom?
Well, this is a piece of information that is not so popular as other ones are. The very instant the Political Left ideology was created, the same exactly moment the Political Right one was also created by the very same people: In 1807 Napoleon Bonaparte reconvened the ancient Council of Great Sanhedrin (the ancient Palestinian council that convicted Jesus and turned him over to the Roman conquers for execution) and gave them a permanent seat in the French Imperial Parliament Assembly (they were mustered at the left side of the emperor --thus their characteristic name-- while the conservatives cringed at the right side of him!) in exchange for more loans from the Rothschilds he could not afford, in order to keep the French colonies of the New World. Keep in mind that the Great Sanhedrin were/are the policy makers; they were not the fanatical mob that [according to officially distorted History] started the French [so-called] Revolution that led all the following European (of the same kind) revolutions...

So, the Left/Right bipolar disorientation, as well as the Communist/Capitalist, the Socialist/Fascist, Stalinist/Hitlerist, Black/White, etc. ones (with the very recent additions of the Male/Female, Straight/LGBT, Specified-/Unspecified-gender children, and what other invention will they come up with...), are yet another form of the winning recipe called 'Divide and Conquer': As long as they are fighting each other they will never notice what we are doing to them...


-George

( * ) This 'divide and conquer'-based dogma has cost the world over 200 million people according to Proffessor R. J. Rummel who coined the term 'Democide' meaning the killing of people by their own governments),
( ** ) This was Marx's real name before he changed it to Carl Marx; why would he do such a thing? Was he ashamed of something of his that needed to be changed, or was he losing customers because of his Mosaic-sounding name? Not to mention that he was the son of a very well-off lawyer of the Party as well as the nephew of a filthy rich Rabbi --yet he officially claimed that he new everything about poverty, while he divided the society in the less- and the more-privileged citizens and encouraged the former ones to be murdering the latter ones...
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
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Offline buck converter

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2017, 06:53:19 AM »
I want there to be an equal number of female and male engineers as much as the next guy, but these are my observations as a high school student.
I have not been to college yet, but many people hear forget what high school is like. I will descibe my high school, one that  ironically ranks very high in the US.
Honor and accelerated classes have an equal ratio of male to female students :), but the robotics club has 30 male students and only one female student has walked into robotics the entire year :--. I find this very concerning and would try to fix this, but if the school one day funded a program encouraging female students to be engineers, I would be EXTREMELY upset :rant:. Why? because my school has not thrown a dime at the robotics club or any other engineering program  My club is going to spend more time trying to survive before encouraging female students to join.
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Offline cdev

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2017, 07:57:53 AM »
Scientists, and people who think scientifically, should realize the war is being fought against science. Because science is seen as difficult to control, with money.

Falling for calculated wedge tactics SCIENTIFICALLY calculated to divide otherwise good people is a good way to lose that battle.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2017, 08:07:49 AM »
I'm going to be awful misogynist , male chauvinist and incorrect politically.
1.The medecine, biology , chemist, nursering ,etc all have some on common . The mayor part of the matter have to MEMORIZE. On resume ,the girls and women  tend to memorize(like parrot) when they are learning.

1) You've obviously not studied medicine, biology and chemistry. They rely on a deep level of understanding, not just memory.

As Jordon Peterson said, girls (on average) tend to be less interested in things. Engineering is primarily about building things.
This is one of the primary reasons (if not the primary reason) why the more pure sciences have a much higher female ratio.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2017, 08:18:17 AM »
As Jordon Peterson said, girls (on average) tend to be less interested in things. Engineering is primarily about building things.
This is one of the primary reasons (if not the primary reason) why the more pure sciences have a much higher female ratio.

Our ancient (I despise this term, since it makes me feel more distant from my own ancestors) forefathers used to say that, women ??????? ('tiktoun' transliterated) meaning that women are giving birth to life (to humans) while men ??????? ('genoun' transliterated) meaning that men are giving birth to ideas.

-George
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
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Offline Hero999

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2017, 08:22:24 AM »
I'm going to be awful misogynist , male chauvinist and incorrect politically.
1.The medecine, biology , chemist, nursering ,etc all have some on common . The mayor part of the matter have to MEMORIZE. On resume ,the girls and women  tend to memorize(like parrot) when they are learning.

1) You've obviously not studied medicine, biology and chemistry. They rely on a deep level of understanding, not just memory.

As Jordon Peterson said, girls (on average) tend to be less interested in things. Engineering is primarily about building things.
This is one of the primary reasons (if not the primary reason) why the more pure sciences have a much higher female ratio.
I agree but wasn't actually disputing that. What I was disputing was the implication that medicine, biology and chemistry rely, less on understanding than engineering. They're STEM subjects.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2017, 08:29:39 AM »
I'm going to be awful misogynist , male chauvinist and incorrect politically.
1.The medecine, biology , chemist, nursering ,etc all have some on common . The mayor part of the matter have to MEMORIZE. On resume ,the girls and women  tend to memorize(like parrot) when they are learning.

1) You've obviously not studied medicine, biology and chemistry. They rely on a deep level of understanding, not just memory.

As Jordon Peterson said, girls (on average) tend to be less interested in things. Engineering is primarily about building things.
This is one of the primary reasons (if not the primary reason) why the more pure sciences have a much higher female ratio.
I agree but wasn't actually disputing that. What I was disputing was the implication that medicine, biology and chemistry rely, less on understanding than engineering. They're STEM subjects.

Yes indeed, no argument there.

BuckConverters story above about the robotics club would be another classic things example. Although I would have expected a better percentage then what he saw. IME with First Robotics the female percentage seemed quite high.
 

Offline TwoOfFive

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #115 on: September 06, 2017, 08:58:24 AM »
I think the bottom line here is that there is no reason women should be discouraged from joining STEM fields, but perfect diversity is not a goal we should be forcing ourselves to reach. There will always be a divide between the genders. All we must do is make sure that it's not an unfair one.
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #116 on: September 06, 2017, 09:14:48 AM »
I think the bottom line here is that there is no reason women should be discouraged from joining STEM fields, but perfect diversity is not a goal we should be forcing ourselves to reach. There will always be a divide between the genders. All we must do is make sure that it's not an unfair one.

Yes. While we welcome girls to join us, we shouldn't force girls to do EE. We should also not lower the standard for females, because that on its own is discrimination.
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Offline A Hellene

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #117 on: September 06, 2017, 09:25:12 AM »
Yes. While we welcome girls to join us, we shouldn't force girls to do EE. We should also not lower the standard for females, because that on its own is discrimination.
Emphasis is mine.

Fair enough!

But, then, the 'No Child Left Behind Act (of 2001)' dogma would crash and we would lose generously paying customers (along with the accompanying voters)... What gives?


-George
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #118 on: September 06, 2017, 09:49:38 AM »
You shouldn't all waste your time arguing about affirmative action, and indeed, preferences of all kinds for national groups of any kind, because they have been functionally barred from use in anything involving trade in services under international trade agreements.

They are deemed to be "protectionism" because they are alleged to be trade barriers, a crafty ruse to keep domestic services markets, such as in government services, including engineering, for example, public works, as well as academia, public education, free of the long promised privatization and globalization with international competition. Its anticipated that some of the biggest protests will come from organizations decrying the loss of diversity due to globalization. But, priorities have shifted.

Wage rules and limits on visas for workers have also been framed as invidious discrimination.

 In the recent G20 meeting in Huangzhou,  all the G20 members declared that all protectionist measured adopted after the 2008 crash would be eliminated by 2018.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 09:55:49 AM by cdev »
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #119 on: September 06, 2017, 09:59:33 AM »
That's quite right.

I guess that the problem is, WHY should some trade agreements be above ANY country's constitution?
I also guess that obviousness needs not to be answered...

By the way, hello cdev! This is an asmdev! :P


-George
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline cdev

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #120 on: September 06, 2017, 10:10:41 AM »
Good question, I think in services they just saw the market in services as huge and until 1995 it was largely immune to government using it as a bargaining chip. Imagine that. But they saw it- being as it is something like 80% of the world economy, as fertile ground for trading of various services to meet geopolitical goals. Also, its a way of locking the world into an increasingly restrictive system which is in many peoples eyes failed to justify its continued use, which many feel is already past its due by date.

By trading services they turn the current system with all its problems, into an entitlement owned by foreign corporations, as a vested right that cannot be voted away without compensating them for expected lost profits.  Basically they do this by giving corporations rights to sell things without government interference, especially the most necessary things which many feel should not be commercialized, even though they are the most profitable things.

Also, its used as labor arbitrage, as international competition - when the foreign workers are in a state of disempowerment, lowers all wages.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #121 on: September 06, 2017, 10:26:53 AM »
This topic brings to mind another quote I remember, something like this: "the laws of physics do not care about your race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, feelings, or political views; and if you try to fight them, you will lose."
 
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #122 on: September 06, 2017, 10:30:27 AM »
This topic brings to mind another quote I remember, something like this: "the laws of physics do not care about your race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, feelings, or political views; and if you try to fight them, you will lose."

Good saying. Added to my quote list.
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Offline buck converter

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #123 on: September 06, 2017, 10:36:37 AM »
I'm going to be awful misogynist , male chauvinist and incorrect politically.
1.The medecine, biology , chemist, nursering ,etc all have some on common . The mayor part of the matter have to MEMORIZE. On resume ,the girls and women  tend to memorize(like parrot) when they are learning.

1) You've obviously not studied medicine, biology and chemistry. They rely on a deep level of understanding, not just memory.

As Jordon Peterson said, girls (on average) tend to be less interested in things. Engineering is primarily about building things.
This is one of the primary reasons (if not the primary reason) why the more pure sciences have a much higher female ratio.
I agree but wasn't actually disputing that. What I was disputing was the implication that medicine, biology and chemistry rely, less on understanding than engineering. They're STEM subjects.

Yes indeed, no argument there.

BuckConverters story above about the robotics club would be another classic things example. Although I would have expected a better percentage then what he saw. IME with First Robotics the female percentage seemed quite high.

In my experience FIRST robotics in general has great sex ratios. When I competed in FLL, my team of 6 had  1:3 ratio. At the tourtaments there are girl scout teams, no boy scout teams, so tourtaments are around 1:1, thanks to girl scouts :D
Most high schools in my area have FTC teams, and they are around 1:3 to 2:3. My club Is 1:30 because we lack the clout to even call ourselves a legitimate thing. We came in 24 out of 26th place!!! Having one girl in a team of 10 did not look good in front of the judges! With just $2000 a year we could be successful at tourtaments and focus on attracting more women
(To those who have not coached First - a part of FTC is showing the judges how your team works etc)
Just me and my scope.
 

Offline marshallh

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Re: Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering
« Reply #124 on: September 06, 2017, 12:28:12 PM »
Here's some anecdotal evidence to provide additional confusion:

My sister did well in high school and got a full ride scholarship to do a Chemical Engineering degree at the state school. After 1 year she quit the program, much to the dismay of the Women in Engineering directors.
Not because she couldn't handle it, she is quite sharp and good at math (finished Calculus BC before even leaving high school), but she simply didn't care for the engineering mindset as a whole. With a future of all day working in a bleak office slaving away over numbers, while she wanted to work with people.

Forgoing the scholarship money, she graduated with a general degree and went off to become a housewife and run social programs. She was tested with 136 IQ when younger.
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