EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: hacklordsniper on October 25, 2011, 12:05:05 pm
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Can somebody from expirience suggest me a quality tool, with separate power supply.
Like this http://www.dealextreme.com/p/professional-electric-screwdriver-with-power-adapter-set-102289 (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/professional-electric-screwdriver-with-power-adapter-set-102289) but higher quality and easily available tips?
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I would ask the following: What kind of torque range do you need? What kind (if any) of torque control do you need? What kind of switch do you want? (the one you linked to has a small toggle up high - doesn't look convenient).
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I would ask the following: What kind of torque range do you need? What kind (if any) of torque control do you need? What kind of switch do you want? (the one you linked to has a small toggle up high - doesn't look convenient).
I would be happy with torque setting from 0.5 to 5.0 or 7.0 kgf-cm, i would like it not to use clutch but full off when set torque is reached. The switch should be a push to start but if there is not any other option i will settle with lever trigger function also. The one from the link is crap, its just to better explain about what i mean
Altrough i never used pust to start function so i dont know can the screws be damaged easily from the screw bit not seating properly. I like this one, but im not even thinking to go in that price range http://www.expressassembly.com/catalog/proddetail.php?prod=EA-412P (http://www.expressassembly.com/catalog/proddetail.php?prod=EA-412P)
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Don't bother with one of them old fashioned mechanical screwdrivers get one like Dr Who's, Sonic screwdrivers are the way to go.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/8cff/?itm=sonic_screwdriver&rkgid=274778449&cpg=ogty1&source=google_toys_uk&gclid=CJuCw__zg6wCFTQhtAod8QMBKQ (http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/8cff/?itm=sonic_screwdriver&rkgid=274778449&cpg=ogty1&source=google_toys_uk&gclid=CJuCw__zg6wCFTQhtAod8QMBKQ) 8)
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Don't bother with one of them old fashioned mechanical screwdrivers get one like Dr Who's, Sonic screwdrivers are the way to go.
http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/8cff/?itm=sonic_screwdriver&rkgid=274778449&cpg=ogty1&source=google_toys_uk&gclid=CJuCw__zg6wCFTQhtAod8QMBKQ (http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/8cff/?itm=sonic_screwdriver&rkgid=274778449&cpg=ogty1&source=google_toys_uk&gclid=CJuCw__zg6wCFTQhtAod8QMBKQ) 8)
Haha i will rather stay with old screwdrivers :)
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Dear Hacklordsniper:
--Have a look at the item listed below, and tell us what you think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ingersoll-Rand-EL0807BC-SS-ESD-Electric-Screwdriver-/300612847800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fdec08b8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ingersoll-Rand-EL0807BC-SS-ESD-Electric-Screwdriver-/300612847800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fdec08b8)
"Business is never so healthy as when, like a chicken, it must do a certain amount of scratching around for what it gets." Henry Ford
Best Regards
Clear Ether
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I had a Panasonic branded cordless screwdriver for many years, I used it daily to assemble and repair computers. I can thoughly recommend them. They are a bit expensive, but like any quality tool, worth it in the end. I have tried heaps of 'el cheapo' 'one hung low' ones in the past, rubbish compared to the Panasonic. :P
Raff
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Dear Hacklordsniper:
--Have a look at the item listed below, and tell us what you think.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ingersoll-Rand-EL0807BC-SS-ESD-Electric-Screwdriver-/300612847800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fdec08b8 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ingersoll-Rand-EL0807BC-SS-ESD-Electric-Screwdriver-/300612847800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fdec08b8)
Looks nice, i allready put a bid on it. Not a 220 VAC but that can be solved :). However i dont plan to bid alot on this item since it looks like seriously abused
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I didn't make a comparative study of it but I've used Kolver tools and they seem pretty good.
http://www.kolverusa.com/index.php/component/products/SubCategories/15 (http://www.kolverusa.com/index.php/component/products/SubCategories/15)
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are you manufacturing? or just normal bench stuff?
-sj
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are you manufacturing? or just normal bench stuff?
-sj
Mix of both, more second that first. The usually drill has becomed too heavy, battery screwdriwer too weak, no torque adjustment
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ahhh... well, unless i needed precision torque increments for some reason, i would get this bad boy. DeWalt 12V MAX 1/4" Screwdriver Kit (http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-screwdrivers--screwguns-screwdrivers-dcf610s2.aspx)
small, lightweight, comfortable/balanced/ergonomic feel, variable speed, variable clutch, packs the fury when needed, no wires, nice warranty, parts available for many years. my 2¢ fwiw.
-sj
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http://www.expressassembly.com/catalog/ElectricScrewdrivers.php (http://www.expressassembly.com/catalog/ElectricScrewdrivers.php)
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ahhh... well, unless i needed precision torque increments for some reason, i would get this bad boy. DeWalt 12V MAX 1/4" Screwdriver Kit (http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-screwdrivers--screwguns-screwdrivers-dcf610s2.aspx)
small, lightweight, comfortable/balanced/ergonomic feel, variable speed, variable clutch, packs the fury when needed, no wires, nice warranty, parts available for many years. my 2¢ fwiw.
-sj
ahhh... well, unless i needed precision torque increments for some reason, i would get this bad boy. DeWalt 12V MAX 1/4" Screwdriver Kit (http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-screwdrivers--screwguns-screwdrivers-dcf610s2.aspx)
small, lightweight, comfortable/balanced/ergonomic feel, variable speed, variable clutch, packs the fury when needed, no wires, nice warranty, parts available for many years. my 2¢ fwiw.
-sj
I allready have something similiar from Bosch. I dont want battery power and its unpractical and causes alot of wrist fatique
http://www.expressassembly.com/catalog/ElectricScrewdrivers.php (http://www.expressassembly.com/catalog/ElectricScrewdrivers.php)
I posted their link on the begining of the post. I like them but im not ready to cash out 500-600 $
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http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2401-22-12-Volt-Li-Ion-Compact/dp/B000WI9CIG (http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2401-22-12-Volt-Li-Ion-Compact/dp/B000WI9CIG)
Excellent reviews, variable speed
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Nice but i dont want anything battery powered or gun shape
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http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2401-22-12-Volt-Li-Ion-Compact/dp/B000WI9CIG (http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2401-22-12-Volt-Li-Ion-Compact/dp/B000WI9CIG)
Excellent reviews, variable speed
Wow! the power of suggestion. I had no intentions of buying a power screwdriver even though I could really use one for my home business. So I figure I would look to see whats out there just to try to help a fellow forum member. But after looking I could not resist a Home Depot visit this morning. I checked out every brand of pistol driver they had and the Milwaukee was still the winner. So thanks hacklordsniper for costing me $99.00 this morning
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Im glad this thread helped you, however it still did not help me ;D
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Dear Hacklordsniper"
--From some of the responses you are getting, it appears that you failed to make clear that, your goal is to assemble electronic projects, and not to hang drywall. I get these kinds of responses also. If you wanted a doorbell, they would tell you "Just have them knock".
--For a hilarious example of the "you should do what I want to do, instead of what you want to do" syndrome, from this blog, check out the link below:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3425.0 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3425.0)
--P.S. Let us know if you find anything that meets your specs, and which you can easily find bits for. I might buy one myself.
"There are two possible outcomes: if the result confirms the hypothesis, then you've made a measurement. If the result is contrary to the hypothesis, then you've made a discovery." Enrico Fermi 1901 1954
Best Regards
Clear Ether
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Hello, you made a good point.
Im searching for industrial screwdriver for assembling products and use it for personal projects and various teardows. I think i will go with express assembly, im little disapointed that i will have to spend a 600 $ on it. I will go for the brushless model and lever start. I start to think "push to start" system is only useful on production enviroment for assembly and if you always use the same bit and exactly one type of screw
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This is a bit off the wall.
If you are not wanting to spend big money on a ready made solution, how about hack a cheaper commercial pistol shaped driver.
The handle usually contains the motor controller so remove the controller and handle mount on a bungee or similar to relieve the holding strain. The gearbox and motors are pretty strong and reliable even on budget drivers.
Hack a controller, with a variable averaging current consumption detection to latch off the power as a torque control.
Add a momentary action start switch.
This just off the top of my head and would need some work but I would think it could be cheap and cost effective.
Probably would not meet heath and safety requirements in the UK if used in industry but thats a different question.
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Before i buy a new one im still looking at ebay for used ones. Alot of great screwderivers appear (some without power supply, some with) but at very good price. However all of them look so beaten up, abused and poor. Im just waiting to maybe "catch" something.
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This is a bit off the wall.
If you are not wanting to spend big money on a ready made solution, how about hack a cheaper commercial pistol shaped driver.
The handle usually contains the motor controller so remove the controller and handle mount on a bungee or similar to relieve the holding strain. The gearbox and motors are pretty strong and reliable even on budget drivers.
Hack a controller, with a variable averaging current consumption detection to latch off the power as a torque control.
Add a momentary action start switch.
This just off the top of my head and would need some work but I would think it could be cheap and cost effective.
Probably would not meet heath and safety requirements in the UK if used in industry but thats a different question.
I was thinking along the same lines. But one problem is the diameter of the motor/gearbox is rather large compared to the typical power screwdriver making the ergonomics less than Ideal. The electronic only (no clutch) torque control I think needs to be fairly sophisticated to account for the inertia of the motor armature and gearbox continuing to dissipate their inertial energy after all current is removed especially at the 1000 rpm typical driver speed. Think about a screw into a nut at 1000 rpm. It has virtually no drag torque until the head of the screw hits the nut face. Even if you de-energized the motor at the exact instant the screw seated against the nut the inertia of the motor/gearbox would have to be dissipated. My hunch is that even the models that turn off after reaching the set torque have a clutch for this reason.
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I often look at this device:
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-500-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B002XZLTQO (http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-500-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B002XZLTQO)
I think one day I might get it, even if it doesn't meet the requirements of this thread.
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I often look at this device:
http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-500-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B002XZLTQO (http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-500-Precision-Screwdriver/dp/B002XZLTQO)
I think one day I might get it, even if it doesn't meet the requirements of this thread.
100 rpm is the speed of this driver. if you had a 0-80 screw 1/4" long it would take 12 seconds to remove it. I think you might fall asleep waiting for the screw to come out. That is way slower than you normally spin a screwdriver by hand. Even the 500 rpm of the Milwaukee driver I mentioned earlier in this post is almost too slow. I think you would be very disappointed.
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I was thinking along the same lines. But one problem is the diameter of the motor/gearbox is rather large compared to the typical power screwdriver making the ergonomics less than Ideal. The electronic only (no clutch) torque control I think needs to be fairly sophisticated to account for the inertia of the motor armature and gearbox continuing to dissipate their inertial energy after all current is removed especially at the 1000 rpm typical driver speed. Think about a screw into a nut at 1000 rpm. It has virtually no drag torque until the head of the screw hits the nut face. Even if you de-energized the motor at the exact instant the screw seated against the nut the inertia of the motor/gearbox would have to be dissipated. My hunch is that even the models that turn off after reaching the set torque have a clutch for this reason.
Yes good point, you need a clutch then.
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Dear Hacklordsniper:
--I agree with robrenz that a clutch would be a good thing to have. But it seems to me that most lever operated screwdrivers have variable speed and need not be going full tilt at all times. After all, even with a clutch, there is rotational momentum to consider. That is why people often ease up on the RPMs when the screw is almost home. I also think that most of the good ones have clutches. I think eBay is a good source for, if nothing else, information. The question about obtaining extra bits is still pending. Let us know what you find out.
"I were better to be eaten to death with a rust than to be scoured to nothing with perpetual motion."
William Shakespeare 1564 1616
Best Regards
Clear Ether
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Yes good point, you need a clutch then.
I was not considering dynamic braking or even full servo control in my previous statement about the inertial tightening. Even so with full servo control and an emergency stop of armature the inertial energy would have to be dissipated by accelerating the screwdriver housing (resisted by your hand). I did see an abstract of an article of a purely electronic torque control so it is doable.
Hacklordsniper here is some pretty good educational info on what you are looking for. http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center (http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center)
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Yes good point, you need a clutch then.
I was not considering dynamic braking or even full servo control in my previous statement about the inertial tightening. Even so with full servo control and an emergency stop of armature the inertial energy would have to be dissipated by accelerating the screwdriver housing (resisted by your hand). I did see an abstract of an article of a purely electronic torque control so it is doable.
Hacklordsniper here is some pretty good educational info on what you are looking for. http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center (http://www.mountztorque.com/learning-center)
Yes I see, you can have many ways to achieve a set torque, Its far more complicated than the basic hack I was thinking about to save money though :)
I suppose if you wanted you could have an electric driver with a whole profile of speed and breaking, even counting the turns of the chuck/bit to have a variable custom speed torque at all parts of the driving process.
You might be able to use a simple tighten to end of thread and a small drop of thread locking compound dipped on the start of the screw, depending on the application. or a final tighten with a torque wrench /driver.
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I can second the pro Panasonic cordless screwdriver, they make some of the best in the business.
http://www.justtools.com.au/prod4339.htm (http://www.justtools.com.au/prod4339.htm)
Not cheap though.
Dave.