Rant: leaked battery from Tek

[retiredcaps]

I did a test on its input protection and it seems like the meter has leaky input MOVs.

You can remove the MOVs for test purposes and see if the meter shows 0L in resistance mode.

[retiredcaps]

If the MOVs are bad, replacements at digikey/mouser for 65 cents each as per this thread

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fixing-a-fluke-87v/

[KE5FX]

Trust me -- or don't -- it's Duracell's fault. 

Yes, Tek could do the right thing and take responsibility for using batteries that have had serious quality problems for years.  But after three years, it's not too surprising that they're reluctant to do that. 

Duracell, on the other hand, should be held to account.

[retiredcaps]

The MOVs used today in Fluke's modern handheld meters have been around since the Fluke 70 series II days as I discovered via

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-179-need-help-identifying-part/

[retiredcaps]

Did you check the PTC? It should measure about 1.0 or 1.1k ohm.

[retiredcaps]

0.9785k and 0.9734k.

Both look good.  I think the spec for the PTC is +/- 20% so your readings are in the ball park. 

I had one PTC in a "working" Fluke 77 III that read 100k ohm.  It wasn't until I measured a 100ohm and a 1M ohm resistor that I noticed the readings were fluctuating and out of spec.  Finally, narrowed down the problem to the PTC.

I have seen this non 0L offset before somewhere in another thread, but can't remember the exact details right now.  I will have to try to recall and see if I can find it?

[jordanp123]

So I called Tek and Fluke.
Fluke: even without battery leakage they won't offer their "limited lifetime" warranty to me for whatever reason. I will have to pay $241 flat rate to fix it.
Tek: the customer is responsible for battery management.

Did they even offer any hint as to why they (fluke) wouldn't offer the warranty service? That's pretty bad of them though, its one of the fluke's main selling points.

[retiredcaps]

Did they even offer any hint as to why they (fluke) wouldn't offer the warranty service? That's pretty bad of them though, its one of the fluke's main selling points.

Yes, I forgot to mention that if you bought the 289 from an authorized dealer and registered it on their website or have a receipt, you should qualify for the 10 year minimum warranty without question.

Now, Fluke may determine after receiving your meter, that you "abused" it and refuse repair/replacement, but to get a $241 charge over the phone without even seeing the meter does not sound right.  I would phone them back again and ask to speak to a supervisor.

[P90]

I still say it's about time for a Duracell class action lawsuit...

[retiredcaps]

I have seen this non 0L offset before somewhere in another thread, but can't remember the exact details right now.

This may be the thread or there could another couple?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-83-multimeter-repair-attempt/

Trying to remember all the stuff I helped with over the last 7 years ... not easy.  Or was it in a youtube video that I saw?

BTW, does the non 0L show up in every ohms range?  Do you get 0L if you manually enter each ohms range?

[Electro Detective]

I still say it's about time for a Duracell class action lawsuit...

and time for a BATTERY SHAME thread here perhaps ?

permanent sticky too...

[retiredcaps]

I bought my F289 from China and brought it with me when I moved to US.

I don't know how warranty works across the borders, but that might explain the $241 charge.  You might luck out and get a free repair or replacement from Fluke USA.

If this were my meter and having success with IPA baths on used/abused meters that I bought from ebay, I would do the IPA bath before spending $241 USD.  But, it is your decision.

My first experience with IPA bath back in Oct 2012.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fluke-77-ii-incorrect-readings-on-all-ranges/

[retiredcaps]

My concern about IPA bath is that it may further damage the meter and I want to try official warranty first before doing some last attempt resurrection.

When Fluke actually published service manuals with schematics, bill of materials, etc, cleaning the pcb with IPA was included the manual.

A sample from the Fluke 76 manual (first one in my folder).

I do understand your reluctance though since this is under warranty.

[retiredcaps]

The last service manual that I can find is the Fluke 77 III. The exact same instructions.

http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/77iii___smeng0100.pdf

Starts at page 3-4.

The last service manual that I can find of modern current selling Flukes is the 170 series.

http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/17x_____cieng0600.pdf

Page 8 has the same instructions.

There are several examples here on eevblog where an IPA bath or ultrasonic bath has fixed offsets due to non visible pcb contamination.

[retiredcaps]

Let's see if I'm up to date on this?

The usual suspect for the ohms offset (MOVs - 5k and 30k in the threads below)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-179-need-help-identifying-part/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87-v-mystery-low-impedance-input/

were the root cause, but you already removed all 3 and had the same 400M offset.

In some cases an IPA or ultrasonic helped, but you still have the same problem.   Maybe try drying the pcb a bit more using a computer fan for another 2 or 3 hours and see if the offset still exists.

Cleaning has done something though?  Originally it was 400M and now it is 300M.

[james_s]

Wow, 400M, I wasn't aware there were DMMs that could even read that high. Seems like just humidity in the air could easily throw that off, wonder how they do it.

[retiredcaps]

Wow, 400M, I wasn't aware there were DMMs that could even read that high.

The Fluke 289 will measure up to 500Mohm

http://www.fluke.com/fluke/caen/digital-multimeters/advanced-multimeters/fluke-289.htm?pid=56061

and it can measure conductance as well.

[james_s]

That's crazy, I didn't even know that was possible without using HV.

[Berni]

You can measure really high resistances even without HV if you have something that can measure tiny currents.

I have an old HP 4141 SMU that for the fun of it i used to measure the insulation resistance of 10cm of CAT5 twisted pair. It turned out to be about 80 TOhm. It can generate a test voltage of 100V and measure pA flowing trough it. Tho it the result is likely not precise at all at resistances this high. But anythyng under a TeraOhm it can give a pretty good result. For such a measurement triax cables have to be used so that you got a guard shield all the way to your DUT.

[james_s]

Well I learned something new here. Heck TeraOhm is not even a unit I've ever used, glad to not have to deal with anything requiring such ridiculously high units of resistance.

[Electro Detective]

Hi, as mentioned at another post, both my Fluke 289 and 189 should and CAN measure 1000+ volts from any type of insulation tester,
but will read as 8.3 to 8.4 Megohms, not 10 meg

The 50 to 500 volt ranges do display 10 megohms

It only happens with these two meters that are years apart and it's too much coincidence,
so it's either by design to limit HV 'earlier' from nuking certain onboard functions 
or they didn't do all their homework at the testing stage

Otherwise they work fine   

[Electro Detective]

yeah sounds like a dud component in there somewhere

Good luck,    hope Fluke fixes it with the free money they are getting to sort their problem for you