How to remove basement smell from old equipment?

[jadew]

Hey guys,

I sometimes buy old gear from ebay and some of it smells really bad (especially ex-MOD stuff). Is there any way to deal with that, other than taking everything apart and cleaning each board and component?

My latest acquisition has a powerful fan inside and when I turn it on it fills the room with a distinct smell (not even sure how to describe it).

[Cyberdragon]

If it's old military, that's not "basement smell" that's POISEN. They fill them with fungicide at the factory to prevent mold and mildew growth in humid environments. Try not to breath it in too much, might make you sick. You should wash the inside of the case thuroughly, I don't think to much of it will be on the circuits, but IDK where it would have seeped over the years.

[jadew]

That's good to know. Thanks for the info.

That makes me very weary of using them again then. Particularly, this last one, which has the powerful fan.

Edit:
How come they were safe to use when they were in service?

[edavid]

If it's old military, that's not "basement smell" that's POISEN. They fill them with fungicide at the factory to prevent mold and mildew growth in humid environments. Try not to breath it in too much, might make you sick. You should wash the inside of the case thuroughly, I don't think to much of it will be on the circuits, but IDK where it would have seeped over the years.

OP, don't believe this nonsense.

[jadew]

OP, don't believe this nonsense.

I'm already in panic mode, especially since the smell is similar between ex-MOD devices (I'm talking about UK MOD), so it kinda makes sense.

Now I really want to know if this is true or not and if it is, how dangerous it is?

[helius]

Some conformal coatings are specified to resist mold, and are typically used for tropical service. I think parylene is typically modified with additives for that purpose, and silicone coatings can also have them. I have never seen equipment that was "filled with poisen [sic]" and that doesn't seem very practical.

Is the smell that of formaldehyde?

[Cyberdragon]

They are probably just outgassing due to age and also less safety standards back then. They should be safe to use once cleaned. Be mindful though that some of the older (tube era) chemicals can degrade (and already would have) in a way that becomes corrosive and conductive (although this is rare, it's devistating as I have experienced this). So if you ever open something that's all inexplicably rusty inside only and has electrically leaky cloth wire insulation (might affect rubber too), that is why (be careful, I've heard this particular chemical is toxic, I think from arsenic). Although if it's not causing this and is entirely enclosed where the stink can't escape, I usually just leave it. But you should definatelty remove it from anything that has vents and especially fans.

Also, if you want to confirm if it's spray or something else, there should be a label printed somewhere inside the case (might be tiny or faded) that says something like "NOTICE: This equipment has been treated with (X) for (Y)..." and then a bunch of stuff about how not to disturb the coating.

[jadew]

Is the smell that of formaldehyde?

I don't know how formaldehyde smells, sorry. To my nose, it smells like basement, but with a metalic/electronics tint.

Also, if you want to confirm if it's spray or something else, there should be a label printed somewhere inside the case (might be tiny or faded) that says something like "NOTICE: This equipment has been treated with (X) for (Y)..." and then a bunch of stuff about how not to disturb the coating.

I haven't seen anything of the sort inside (I've opened it to clean it up and to do a quick visual inspection when I got it).

[Cyberdragon]

Is the smell that of formaldehyde?

I don't know how formaldehyde smells, sorry. To my nose, it smells like basement, but with a metalic/electronics tint.

Also, if you want to confirm if it's spray or something else, there should be a label printed somewhere inside the case (might be tiny or faded) that says something like "NOTICE: This equipment has been treated with (X) for (Y)..." and then a bunch of stuff about how not to disturb the coating.

I haven't seen anything of the sort inside (I've opened it to clean it up and to do a quick visual inspection when I got it).

Probably safe then, but still degrading. If it has integrated circuits it should be past the era where they just sprayed them full of nasty chemicals, also indicated by the lack of a warning label. 

[X]

It may be worth taking the kit apart anyway to inspect the internals. The smell can indicate a problem, such as pheremones released by pregnant aluminium electrolytics as they transform into volcanoes.

Storage in a sealed container along with an odour-absorbing material often works. If you buy shoes for your wife/girlfriend, she'll be happy with the shoes, and you'll be happy with the silica gel packets.

[Beamin]

The best cure for basement smell is a 2% bleach solution where you can wipe things down with it or lightly spray it being careful not to get things too wet. Lysol also works but remember the active ingredient is toxic and you should wear gloves and wash it off the surface if you plan on touching it. I don't use Lysol after I figured this out. I choose germs over carcinogens and whats the point of Lysol if I have to wash the surface after I use it anyways? The chemical is written in very fine print in the bottom left corner of products and is called C12 C14 C16 n-alkyldimethylbenzolammonium (chloride or succinate). Just stay away from those disinfectants and use good old fashion and safe bleach.

Some fungicides and other chemicals like brominated flame retardants that used to be used are toxic. In the pre 1980's they didn't have the regulations or even know how dangerous some of this stuff is. Although it really depends. At one point asbestos was a miracle product and PCB's were common.

[jadew]

The best cure for basement smell is a 2% bleach solution where you can wipe things down with it or lightly spray it being careful not to get things too wet.

Thanks, I'll give it a try with bleach.

It doesn't look that bad inside (dust wise), but it seems that I'll have to take the whole assembly apart.

Probably that black dust is the problem - think it's it dust that has been populated by mold and that's why it's black? If it would be regular dust, I guess it wouldn't smell, no?

[jadew]

You know what, on some closer inspection I can see some white spots, that may suggest that it was sprayed with something.

Also, there are some white grains stuck on that radiator.

Edit:
Added a better picture.

So what's the verdict? Poison or not?

[Cyberdragon]

It looks like it was made in the 80s, so it's likely fine. That black stuff is just dirt (possibly carbonized), don't know what the white stuff is but it's not chemical. If it was chemical, it would be all white and nasty.

[SeanB]

Black is dust, the white probably oxide from the aluminium that formed with some damp storage and the black dust acting as a chemical accelerator. Simply wipe down with a damp brush ( water and a drop of alcohol in it) to get the dust off the intricate parts and then dry thoroughly.

[jpanhalt]

I think the white stuff is just pinpoint spots of corrosion as one sees on pot metals (e.g., zinc alloys) and aluminum.

I didn't comment earlier about the formaldehyde.   Formaldhyde is actually a gas and has quite a pungent, sharp odor.  Very unlikely to have been around long; although, it can be used to kill mold.  After a bit of airing, it is gone.  Allowable levels are well above the levels at which it can be first smelled.

I don't think I would recommend bleach (presumably sodium hypochlorite, NaOCl)  unless there was obvious mold.  I think the "2%" meant a 2% solution of household bleach, which is usually 5% to 6.5% or so NaOCl. In other words a 1:50 dilution of that bleach solution, not a 2% solution of NaOCl per se.

John

[jadew]

Thank you all for the answers. I'll proceed to cleaning it up.

[jadew]

I finally managed to open it up and noticed that those spots are in some places, but not others. If it's oxidation, why doesn't affect the whole thing? To me it looks like the droplets that remain behind when you wash a surface with a cloth.

Edit:
This picture didn't fit:

[jpanhalt]

I finally managed to open it up and noticed that those spots are in some places, but not others. If it's oxidation, why doesn't affect the whole thing? To me it looks like the droplets that remain behind when you wash a surface with a cloth.

Edit:
This picture didn't fit:

Why does a car only rust in a few spots initially?

John

[tablatronix]

Just replacing the fan should get rid of alot of the stank I would think, it is like an accumulator and it has all those nooks and crannies. Blast it out with air, brush the oxides and gunk off. Install a carbon foam filter, leaving it out in the sun might help, uv etc. If you are hardcore, you could wash it with dry ice...

I would stick to alcohol, it evaporates fast. Not sure about bleach.

Aluminum oxidizes like that looks normal, obviously exposed to high humidity maybe salt air also.

[jadew]

I washed the radiator part with water. The rest of the thing, I washed with alcohol and those spots went away. I guess that in this case it really was some sort of substance. I didn't get it all tho because I didn't remove all the components and couldn't reach under them.

Yeah, I'm washing the fan now and I'll consider adding a filter too.

Edit: Rephrasing.

[Beamin]

I think the white stuff is just pinpoint spots of corrosion as one sees on pot metals (e.g., zinc alloys) and aluminum.

I didn't comment earlier about the formaldehyde.   Formaldhyde is actually a gas and has quite a pungent, sharp odor.  Very unlikely to have been around long; although, it can be used to kill mold.  After a bit of airing, it is gone.  Allowable levels are well above the levels at which it can be first smelled.

I don't think I would recommend bleach (presumably sodium hypochlorite, NaOCl)  unless there was obvious mold.  I think the "2%" meant a 2% solution of household bleach, which is usually 5% to 6.5% or so NaOCl. In other words a 1:50 dilution of that bleach solution, not a 2% solution of NaOCl per se.

John

Yes 1:50 of house hold bleach. Most people don't have access to pure sodium hypochlorate so the actual moles per liter is going to be lower but doesn't really matter, he could put straight bleach on it if he doesn't mind the obnoxious smell for a long time. The basement smell is caused by black mold and gray mold, black mold is the stuff the stuff that is bad for you but you need to be in a room full of it for a while for it to hurt you. A little bit on a computer wont hurt. If you are afraid of the bleach spray it with Lysol.

[edpalmer42]

I've heard that just putting it outside on a sunny day can reduce odors.  It's a combination of airing it out, heat to drive out any volatile compounds, and UV from the sun to disinfect it.

Ed