Repairing car by me: Making messy job even more messy

[james_s]

I've been driving Volvos for about 20 years, 8V OHC with a timing belt but also a turbocharger so they're great driving up over the mountains. The NA engines lose a significant amount of power at high altitude but the turbo motors still have plenty of grunt. Timing belt only has be changed every 75k miles or or 5 years so it's not a huge expenditure of effort. The one I had for the longest had 318K on it and was still running strong when a truck rear ended me and totaled it.

[calexanian]

I am going to ignore the fact that you should not just replace rings and you should to a proper bore and hone and piston replacement. Also that this all should be done with the engine out, and under very clean conditions, and that you should really just be rebuilding the engine, or get a cheap replacement engine. Additionally all of the journals will need to be re ground and polished and the bearing shells replaced, etc, etc, etc. but......

I am assuming you have just pulled the head and dropped the pan, and undone the big end bolts and pulled the pistons out. Be sure you keep the right piston/rod and big end sets together and be sure to put them back in the same locations. DO NOT PUT THEM BACK IN A DIFFERENT ORDER or you will defiantly need a total rebuild.

When I rebuild and engine I first rough clean all of the parts in a little parts washer or a bucket with degreaser. I have two 6 foot folding tables i place large metal oil drip catch sheets on. The rinsed metal parts go on the sheets and get with with slide rust preventative lightly sprayed on them and they all get a turn in the Berrymans Chem Dip. After that serious cleaning they get oiled and placed back on the trays in order of disassembly.

BTW. Why did you need to do this? Blow by or loss on compression? If its loss of compression it was more likely a head gasket or valve seats. 

[P90]

buy an electric car... no piston rings or timing belt to replace! LOL : -DD

[P90]

I've been driving Volvos for about 20 years, 8V OHC with a timing belt but also a turbocharger so they're great driving up over the mountains. The NA engines lose a significant amount of power at high altitude but the turbo motors still have plenty of grunt. Timing belt only has be changed every 75k miles or or 5 years so it's not a huge expenditure of effort. The one I had for the longest had 318K on it and was still running strong when a truck rear ended me and totaled it.

I've had many Volvos over the years. Solid cars. Just change the timing belt and oil and they run forever. The older ones require servicing the crankcase ventilation system on schedule to avoid issues with blow-by and oil consumption. With a little maintenance they last forever and after driving a Volvo, any other car feels like a death trap.   LOL

[Macbeth]

Timing belts aren't too bad if the engine isn't sideways. I can replace the timing belt in my car in 30 minutes. I've actually done it on the side of the road once. What I don't like is the combination of timing belt + interference engine.

If you have the proper factory alignment tools then it's not so bad. (Factory, I mean Laser or some other copycat). With instructions. But damn, turning that ignition key on an interference engine after a DIY belt change... 

[yada]

Timing belts aren't too bad if the engine isn't sideways. I can replace the timing belt in my car in 30 minutes. I've actually done it on the side of the road once. What I don't like is the combination of timing belt + interference engine.

I hate those zero clearance motors...
Not a fan of timing belts in general...

I had timing belt come loose the day before I was going to get it replaced The idler bearing came loose, which was the reason why I scheduled to have it serviced in the first place. Interference engine blew up in 10 seconds. I saw a guy with the same Volvo as me and told him to make sure he gets the timing belt changed with all the parts. I saw the guy a month later and he told me that his engine had just blown up because the timing belt got lose. "I told you so!"

[P90]

Timing belts aren't too bad if the engine isn't sideways. I can replace the timing belt in my car in 30 minutes. I've actually done it on the side of the road once. What I don't like is the combination of timing belt + interference engine.

I hate those zero clearance motors...
Not a fan of timing belts in general...

I had timing belt come loose the day before I was going to get it replaced The idler bearing came loose, which was the reason why I scheduled to have it serviced in the first place. Interference engine blew up in 10 seconds. I saw a guy with the same Volvo as me and told him to make sure he gets the timing belt changed with all the parts. I saw the guy a month later and he told me that his engine had just blown up because the timing belt got lose. "I told you so!"

That's why I like the motors in the old  240's, they didn't blow up if the belt broke...plus they were rear wheel drive like all cars should be...none if this front wheel drive bullshit...

[james_s]

Yeah a lot of 850s and 960s got scrapped due to people not keeping up on the timing belt changes. Great cars, wonderful motors, powerful and silky smooth, but they never should have used a belt on the twin cam engines. Replacing the timing belt and tensioner on a rigid schedule is mandatory or you end up with a very expensive repair. I met a guy a few years ago who had a beautiful 960 wagon he got for free because it had 21 bent valves and needed a complete cylinder head overhaul.

Aligning the belt isn't hard though, no special tools needed, just line up the marks on the sprockets. On the interference engines you always turn it over by hand several revolutions to make sure everything is good to go. Some guys leave the cover off the timing belt so it's easy to keep an eye on the condition.

[razberik]

He repaired absolutely everything there. Including clutch.

Pfft, trivial.

I've done a few clutches on the road, driveway etc.

I have so much to learn.

[P90]

Yeah a lot of 850s and 960s got scrapped due to people not keeping up on the timing belt changes. Great cars, wonderful motors, powerful and silky smooth, but they never should have used a belt on the twin cam engines. Replacing the timing belt and tensioner on a rigid schedule is mandatory or you end up with a very expensive repair. I met a guy a few years ago who had a beautiful 960 wagon he got for free because it had 21 bent valves and needed a complete cylinder head overhaul.

Aligning the belt isn't hard though, no special tools needed, just line up the marks on the sprockets. On the interference engines you always turn it over by hand several revolutions to make sure everything is good to go. Some guys leave the cover off the timing belt so it's easy to keep an eye on the condition.

yeah, the 5 cylinder is nice and smooth. I've let one go over 100k without before changing the t.b. but that's pushing it and not recommended. basic maintenance and they run forever, and one of the safest cars...

[calexanian]

That's why I like the motors in the old  240's, they didn't blow up if the belt broke...plus they were rear wheel drive like all cars should be...none if this front wheel drive bullshit...

If its a 240 Z you speak of those engines are an evolution of the Prince design which was built under Lic. from Mercedes. The L series motors are under appreciated as all the kids are ripping them out and shoving in KA20's or other such things. L series has plenty of webbing and bottom end to support way higher power. The good news is you can buy good L16's and transmissions for cheap right now, but that won't last. I have been thinking about getting a set for my second roadster which is a 1600. A L16 and a 5 speed would be a nice upgrade. That car however is still in a state of rust as I have been concentrating on my 2000.

[james_s]

yeah, the 5 cylinder is nice and smooth. I've let one go over 100k without before changing the t.b. but that's pushing it and not recommended. basic maintenance and they run forever, and one of the safest cars...

The safety aspect is one of the things that attracted me in the first place and one that I hoped I'd never have to use but a few months ago it saved me from what could have been much worse. I stopped in traffic that was backed up on the freeway, the car behind me stopped, and a few seconds later a tandem trailer gasoline tanker semi plowed into that car at highway speed, smashed it into mine, that knocked me forward a good distance and spun my car around. Then before I had stopped sliding the still moving semi plowed into my front fender and pushed my car sideways down the freeway until it all finally came to a stop. Once I came to my senses I set the parking brake, took off my seatbelt, got out and walked away. I don't know what happened to the guy in the Accura behind me, he had been loaded into an ambulance before the responders came over to talk to me. I found parts of his car stuck to mine along with a spray of coolant and engine oil. I'm still bummed about the car, I'd been driving it for 17 years and kept it immaculate inside and out. Many of the parts will live on in my other cars though.

[HighVoltage]

Sometime times have not much choice....

When I moved to the US, my first car was a 1964 Pointiac and the automatic transmission broke down in Los Angeles and every repair shop wanted more money for the repair than I paid for the car. So I repaired it myself in some backyard without proper tools or table. It was kind of amazing how many part one can find inside such GM transmission. People came by to take a look and told me that this will probably never run again. Well, a couple days later I had found the problem (broken spring from a little tiny ball vale) and put it all back together and it worked perfectly.
Sometimes we just have to do it.

 

[PartialDischarge]

I've had many Volvos over the years. Solid cars. Just change the timing belt and oil and they run forever. The older ones require servicing the crankcase ventilation system on schedule to avoid issues with blow-by and oil consumption. With a little maintenance they last forever and after driving a Volvo, any other car feels like a death trap.   LOL

Volvos are great, I drive one and still change the oil and filters myself as If I were still a student, I don't do it for the savings, but because I don't trust others dirty hands in the engine. Definitively looking forward driving the new V90 cross crountry some day,

[PartialDischarge]

Can't beat this crash test certification 

[james_s]

That's why I like the motors in the old  240's, they didn't blow up if the belt broke...plus they were rear wheel drive like all cars should be...none if this front wheel drive bullshit...

If its a 240 Z you speak of those engines are an evolution of the Prince design which was built under Lic. from Mercedes. The L series motors are under appreciated as all the kids are ripping them out and shoving in KA20's or other such things. L series has plenty of webbing and bottom end to support way higher power. The good news is you can buy good L16's and transmissions for cheap right now, but that won't last. I have been thinking about getting a set for my second roadster which is a 1600. A L16 and a 5 speed would be a nice upgrade. That car however is still in a state of rust as I have been concentrating on my 2000.

It's a Volvo 240 he's speaking of. The B21/B23/B230 series engines are practically bulletproof. Cast iron block, alloy head, stout internals, they're dependable and easy to work on. My brother had a heater hose burst and dump all the coolant, he didn't notice anything was wrong until the head gasket failed and it started running rough. I put a new gasket on, replaced the valve stem seals and replaced the timing belt cover that melted and he's still driving it now years later. My mother has one that she bought brand new in 1986 and it's still her daily driver, 340k miles on it and the engine has never been opened up.

[vodka]

I am surprise that these guys(so lucky) never catch the municipal guard or the police, they are fined with a 1000€.

You are not allowed to repair cars ?

On the street and the kind of fix like you have done, that you have teardown half car  , on the 99%(i think) the spanish councils is banned

Only little fix, like change bulb fuse(if you don't have to teardown mid car), replace the wheel and other things

[james_s]

It probably depends on the specific location and whether or not someone complains. On my street you are not allowed to leave a car for more than 48 hours, but I've seen cars parked that didn't move for weeks. Usually nothing happens unless someone complains. Downtown you could not get away with doing major work on the side of the road but out in a rural area nobody would care.

[calexanian]

That's why I like the motors in the old  240's, they didn't blow up if the belt broke...plus they were rear wheel drive like all cars should be...none if this front wheel drive bullshit...

If its a 240 Z you speak of those engines are an evolution of the Prince design which was built under Lic. from Mercedes. The L series motors are under appreciated as all the kids are ripping them out and shoving in KA20's or other such things. L series has plenty of webbing and bottom end to support way higher power. The good news is you can buy good L16's and transmissions for cheap right now, but that won't last. I have been thinking about getting a set for my second roadster which is a 1600. A L16 and a 5 speed would be a nice upgrade. That car however is still in a state of rust as I have been concentrating on my 2000.

It's a Volvo 240 he's speaking of. The B21/B23/B230 series engines are practically bulletproof. Cast iron block, alloy head, stout internals, they're dependable and easy to work on. My brother had a heater hose burst and dump all the coolant, he didn't notice anything was wrong until the head gasket failed and it started running rough. I put a new gasket on, replaced the valve stem seals and replaced the timing belt cover that melted and he's still driving it now years later. My mother has one that she bought brand new in 1986 and it's still her daily driver, 340k miles on it and the engine has never been opened up.

Oh. Ok. those are good. the head gaskets used to leak in one of the coolant paths though. That was the most common complaint. Other than that they just keep on going. Aftermarket gaskets usually fixed that.

[BradC]

Can't beat this crash test certification 

And that is why I drive a Swedish fridge on wheels. RWD and prior to Fords pollution of the brand.

[james_s]

I'd take Ford any day over the current Chinese ownership. IMHO Volvo as a car company is pretty much dead.

[med6753]

Since the subject of timing belts came up you wanna see some carnage? I got it.

Background: 2004 Honda Civic Coupe. D17 engine. Bought new in June 2004. On December 15, 2010 at 117953 miles (189K km) had a shop replace the timing belt, tensioner and water pump. I was going to do it myself but didn't have the time. I provided the shop with the parts and they did the labor.

Exactly 1 year later, December 13, 2011 at 134293 miles (216K km). I was doing a routine shift from 1st to 2nd gear. There was a loud bang and the engine shut down. Would not restart. Noticed the starter was spinning super fast so I suspected that the timing belt snapped.

Had it towed to a different shop. Engine teardown. Confirmed....broken timing belt. They were going to pull the head and see the extent of the damage. All 16 valves bent. They checked the bottom end of the engine (Pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc) and the shop determined that there was no additional damage. Recommendation was to rebuild the head. I agreed. The shop could not determine why the belt broke but they suspected that the tensioner spring popped and allowed the belt to come off.   

One of the 16 bent valves


The shredded belt wrapped around the tensioner


The shop found the mangled tensioner spring down by the crankshaft pulley


When the belt snapped it also broke the crankshaft position sensor. That piece of plastic was $100 USD


The Civic was in the shop for 2 weeks while the head was out for rebuild. Total cost was just over $2K USD. The shop did excellent work. Ran fine.

I still own the Civic and up until June of 2016 it was a “daily driver”. It has just under 187K miles (301K km). It's now in semi-retirement and driven once or twice a week. There have been no ill effects from the timing belt disaster in 2011. No increase in oil consumption, no odd noises. Runs great!     

[P90]

Since the subject of timing belts came up you wanna see some carnage? I got it.

Background: 2004 Honda Civic Coupe. D17 engine. Bought new in June 2004. On December 15, 2010 at 117953 miles (189K km) had a shop replace the timing belt, tensioner and water pump. I was going to do it myself but didn't have the time. I provided the shop with the parts and they did the labor.

Exactly 1 year later, December 13, 2011 at 134293 miles (216K km). I was doing a routine shift from 1st to 2nd gear. There was a loud bang and the engine shut down. Would not restart. Noticed the starter was spinning super fast so I suspected that the timing belt snapped.

Had it towed to a different shop. Engine teardown. Confirmed....broken timing belt. They were going to pull the head and see the extent of the damage. All 16 valves bent. They checked the bottom end of the engine (Pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, etc) and the shop determined that there was no additional damage. Recommendation was to rebuild the head. I agreed. The shop could not determine why the belt broke but they suspected that the tensioner spring popped and allowed the belt to come off.   

One of the 16 bent valves


The shredded belt wrapped around the tensioner


The shop found the mangled tensioner spring down by the crankshaft pulley


When the belt snapped it also broke the crankshaft position sensor. That piece of plastic was $100 USD


The Civic was in the shop for 2 weeks while the head was out for rebuild. Total cost was just over $2K USD. The shop did excellent work. Ran fine.

I still own the Civic and up until June of 2016 it was a “daily driver”. It has just under 187K miles (301K km). It's now in semi-retirement and driven once or twice a week. There have been no ill effects from the timing belt disaster in 2011. No increase in oil consumption, no odd noises. Runs great!     

they probably reused the old tensioner or it was a shitty part, more so than the original

[med6753]

I provided the shop with the parts. The timing belt and water pump were Honda OEM parts. The tensioner was Dayco which are decent parts. It was made in Japan, including the bearing assembly. No Chinese junk. And I see no reason why the shop wouldn't have changed the tensioner although anything is possible. It's a mystery as to why it broke.

[P90]

I provided the shop with the parts. The timing belt and water pump were Honda OEM parts. The tensioner was Dayco which are decent parts. It was made in Japan, including the bearing assembly. No Chinese junk. And I see no reason why the shop wouldn't have changed the tensioner although anything is possible. It's a mystery as to why it broke.

That's why I hate having anyone work on my cars... it's a gamble... lol... unfortunately with my bad back I don't always have a choice...