Author Topic: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?  (Read 6217 times)

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Offline NeganurTopic starter

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Over the last few days I've tried to both sell and buy gear to/from people in the USA. Most of the time it is a really smooth experience but there are those times when the conversation goes stone cold the moment I mention wire transfer. It doesn't seem to make a difference whether I want to buy something or am the one selling.

I understand that people are afraid of being scammed but when I am the one asking for bank info so that I may wire the money, I don't understand what is the problem. I mean what is it I can do with your bank info except send money your way...? Wire or bank transfers are very normal in Germany and Finland, and I can only assume it's the same in other EU countries.

It gets even more complicated when the other party is a company (merchant) and refuses to accept paypal. I thought that most sellers are used to receive money one way or another, be it by using their internet merchant account (payment gateway account) so that people can pay with credit card or simply a wire transfer.

On top of that, using ebay as an example, there are very strict rules and policies that need to be followed when you sell stuff on ebay. If you are accepting paypal, you are not allowed to limit payment methods you accept e.g. accept paypal but not accept paypal payments funded from a credit card. Or say you only accept paypal for payments of less than 1000$. Further, it's generally forbidden to exchange contact details (email, phone number etc) in ebay messages regardless of whether you are communicating with a buyer/seller of an item you purchased. Yo must use the payment process that ebay is providing.

In one case the seller wanted me to call him on the phone to tell him my credit card number, so that he could accept the payment. Yet at the same time he refuses to give me his bank info for a wire transfer "on a public website like ebay". I mean hello, moaning about putting his bank info into the ebay system but asking me for my CC number over the phone?

There must be something really fundamentally different 'over there' than it is in the EU or am I just unlucky and ran into some more than average cautious people?

(EDIT) PS: I understand when you don't want to use paypal, I don't like it either and as seller it is basically not really doing you any good. For sales to the US I pay 3.4%+1%+0.35 EUR (plus paypal's USD->EUR conversion is another 2.5% above the normal wholesale price) fees on payments done via paypal. That's a lot of money especially since I really like haggling and the paypal fee reduces the amount I can reduce the price for a buyer.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 09:55:55 pm by Neganur »
 
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Offline Benta

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2017, 10:30:42 pm »
In my opinion, the sellers and buyers in both EU an US are acting fully rationally.
A bank or wire transfer is like putting cash in an envelope and sending it off. It's gone. This is based on trust, and if you don't know the seller/buyer, the outcome is open.
Paypal or credit cards have an arbitration system, where you can challenge/reverse a charge, if the transaction did not succeed.
I seldom buy/sell over the internet, but when, it's either CC or Paypal.

 

Online nctnico

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 10:51:13 pm »
Over the last few days I've tried to both sell and buy gear to/from people in the USA. Most of the time it is a really smooth experience but there are those times when the conversation goes stone cold the moment I mention wire transfer. It doesn't seem to make a difference whether I want to buy something or am the one selling.

I understand that people are afraid of being scammed but when I am the one asking for bank info so that I may wire the money, I don't understand what is the problem. I mean what is it I can do with your bank info except send money your way...? Wire or bank transfers are very normal in Germany and Finland, and I can only assume it's the same in other EU countries.

There must be something really fundamentally different 'over there' than it is in the EU or am I just unlucky and ran into some more than average cautious people?
First of all the banking system in the US is expensive (count on paying $25 in fees extra) and far behind on what we are used to in de EU. Secondly the US is very much used to credit cards or cash. Over the years I have paid some items using wire transfer and that went well but it isn't the first option for many companies.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 11:03:09 pm »
I read the other day that US banks are still a bit behind the rest of the world ( like they are for credit cards), cheques/checks are still commonly used ( don't think I've sent or received one for >3 years) and online banking is less common, so it may be that they are simply less used to the idea of doing bank transfers and so regard them with suspicion. 

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Offline NeganurTopic starter

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 11:06:35 pm »
I disagree, wire transfers are not like cash in an envelope.

First of all you have real documentation that the payment has actually been done - cash in an envelope that you gave me, just between the two of us, there is no evidence you ever gave it.

Secondly, if you pay by bank transfer and there is fraudulent activity then there is still a way to get the money back. Just not for reasons of buyer's remorse etc.
Especially German bank transfers can be reversed, just go and ask your bank. There are specific circumstances that make it possible. Then there are standing orders, direct debit etc (Einzugsermächtigung/Lastschriftverfahren) that can be reversed within 8 weeks. For non-German readers: it used to be common to have accounts with online merchants and give them permission to book the amount due for purchases straight off of your account. Nowadays this has been replaced by SEPA which is fairly secure too. 

I fully get that people want security, but I particularly mentioned that I am the one wanting to do the payment via wire.
Yet the seller does not want to give their bank details and that is the thing I don't understand.

Paypal is really not so good as you think it is (especially for sellers). Credit cards are better, I agree - but there are systems in place that merchants are supposed to use. Would you tell them your credit card number over the phone? Merchants are not supposed to even see your CC data, just receive the payment.
 

Offline NeganurTopic starter

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 11:10:39 pm »
Hmm yeah, I had a feeling that there must be something about the wire in the USA that is very different.

Regarding the cost of wire transfer though, if you buy things for more than 1000 USD, then the paypal fees are more than the wire fee aren't they?
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 11:13:21 pm »
Regarding the cost of wire transfer though, if you buy things for more than 1000 USD, then the paypal fees are more than the wire fee aren't they?
Yes. The pivot point is somewhere between $500 and $1000. Not just because of the Paypal fees but also due to the extremely crappy exchange rate Paypal uses.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Bud

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 11:22:33 pm »
Who do you deal with, companies or individuals? Garantee, almost none of individuals ever heard of wire transfers. It is also expensive for common transactions, $45 CAD in Canada to send and $15 to receive. Thirdly, when sending one, you have to go to the branch, obviously not everyone wants to spend time on this. I do not for sure.
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Offline NeganurTopic starter

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 11:25:36 pm »
[...]Thirdly, when sending one, you have to go to the branch, [...]

Now that's a PITA, I totally agree. Online banking works extremely well here in Finland.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 11:34:34 pm »
In the US, most banks charge HIGH fees for wire transfers.  My bank charges $25 per transfer, plus something like $5 for the currency exchange.

Jon
 

Online Bud

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 11:36:19 pm »
There is online banking, it is just it does not offer wire transfer service. I do not think it is possible to transact internationally at all from personal accounts, have to link it to paypal and do it from there.
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Offline shawty

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 11:36:45 pm »
Don't even get me started on this stuff....

I have an American Client that I do Paid Blogging for, and it took me ages to get them to start doing things via Wire Transfer.

Their Justification?  It costs $12 to cover the wire charges, but only 10c to put a pre printed cashiers cheque in an envelope and air mail it to me.

No to be honest, I wouldn't mind the Cheque, except for one problem.

My Business Bank account insists that when I hand the cheque to them, they have to send it all the way back to the states, to be verified by the originating bank, who will then send it back to them, and which they then have to hold in escrow for a week upon it's return because of EU anti money laundering laws, and yep... you guessed it, ALL OF THIS COSTS MONEY, money that I have to pay, from the Cheque that Iv'e received.

There's a handling charge by my Bank, Air Mail costs, A Handling charge by the issuing bank, A handling charge for the return, then a handling charge while it sits in Escrow.  Beacuse it's a business bank account, I know for a fact that it's used as liquid assets by my bank while in Escrow, so there more than likely getting a chunk of interest on it too.

And ME?  I'm lucky if I end up with about 40% of the original, because everything has to be done in percentages right, I mean we'd hate that a larger cheque cost more to to process than a small value cheque, I mean the extra weight in the paper most be tremendous right?

When I initially tried to explain this all to my client, it just didn't seem to sink in, because they where saving $11.90c on the transaction, as opposed to the 60% or so I was loosing on the over all value of the payment.

Crooks the bloody lot of them, there's a really good reason we call them Bankers!!!


Meh....
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2017, 12:07:20 am »
There is online banking, it is just it does not offer wire transfer service. I do not think it is possible to transact internationally at all from personal accounts, have to link it to paypal and do it from there.
:wtf: How does it feel living in the stone age?
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2017, 12:18:45 am »
:wtf: How does it feel living in the stone age?
We shouldn't forget that swiping and magnetic strips are also still common in the US. That's something other nations seem to have phased out a long time ago.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 12:19:27 am »
Who do you deal with, companies or individuals? Garantee, almost none of individuals ever heard of wire transfers. It is also expensive for common transactions, $45 CAD in Canada to send and $15 to receive. Thirdly, when sending one, you have to go to the branch, obviously not everyone wants to spend time on this. I do not for sure.
Awhile back, I received money over seas for a Protel License.  I gave my customer my direct deposit transit # (if I remember what it was called correctly), there were no charges for the money which was deposited into my account.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2017, 12:24:59 am »
(via SWIFT code and account number),
That's the term I was looking for....
 

Offline xani

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2017, 01:23:17 am »
I read the other day that US banks are still a bit behind the rest of the world ( like they are for credit cards), cheques/checks are still commonly used ( don't think I've sent or received one for >3 years) and online banking is less common, so it may be that they are simply less used to the idea of doing bank transfers and so regard them with suspicion.
I think called it "a bit" is understatement. Chip credit cards are norm for 10+ years (still got mag strip tho), and I haven't seen cheque... ever. They are not even a form of payment anymore in my country AFAIK
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 01:26:54 am by xani »
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2017, 02:01:31 am »
There is online banking, it is just it does not offer wire transfer service. I do not think it is possible to transact internationally at all from personal accounts, have to link it to paypal and do it from there.

Depends on your bank. With CIBC I can send money anywhere in the world and it is pretty much as simple as an in Canada email/interac money transfer. They have greatly simplified the transfer process. When I sent funds to TopLoser for a scope I never left my couch and he had it a day later with no fees at all at his end.
Receiving is still bit of a pain with a wire transfer fee(25 bucks).
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Offline Paul Moir

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2017, 07:24:20 am »
Same here with Royal on a personal account.  Couldn't be simpler.
Can't imagine Bud's with the National bank.   >:D
 

Offline ivaylo

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2017, 08:04:44 am »
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I kinda do/done this for a living (former PayPal employee here, what I do in an electronics forum is another matter). With the Internet nowadays we do take transfer of value across the planet for granted. Here is a nice list of the ways your bank can do this https://www.iban.com/whatis.html. Can you be ripped off using any of these? Probably. What is specific about wire transfers is that they are manual (always go through a human, that's why cost money) and can not be reversed, unlike say ACH. As an engineer, what's the way of the future, can't tell (most probably not crypto currencies though)...
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2017, 08:26:18 am »
There is online banking, it is just it does not offer wire transfer service. I do not think it is possible to transact internationally at all from personal accounts, have to link it to paypal and do it from there.

Depends on your bank. With CIBC I can send money anywhere in the world and it is pretty much as simple as an in Canada email/interac money transfer. They have greatly simplified the transfer process. When I sent funds to TopLoser for a scope I never left my couch and he had it a day later with no fees at all at his end.
Receiving is still bit of a pain with a wire transfer fee(25 bucks).
Wow, jeez, and you did that online? What kind of magic is that.

I pay 2 EUR per month for banking. I've been in my bank a grand total of 3 times, once to open the account, once to start an insurance. Everything is online. Wiring money is free, recieving wire transfer is free (lol, I flipped out when I hear that you have to pay money for THAT).
Getting cash from ATM is free.
Paying in the shop with debit card is free.
Paying for stuff online is free.
International wire transfer is free, even to some non EU countries.
Currency exchange for wire transfer is free, though you loose about 1% on it, due to the selling-buying difference.
I make about a dozen wire transfer a month.
I have an other account, where I can do anything online, through skype, like going to my the building.

You are describing a banking system reminiscent of early 19th century.
 
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Offline beanflying

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2017, 08:26:51 am »
The US banking is 'special' Independent small banks swift codes complicated systems of transfer are a PITA! Pre internet banking it was truly horrible.

I ordered some bits online a few weeks ago from a physical store in the USA, entered my credit card numbers to later be informed oh we cant accept overseas Visa or Mastercards seriously where are they both based  :wtf: You will need to pay by paypal..... For 4 days there non cleared payment was removed from my account and labled 'pending'. Most likely a 3rd rate payment gateway in use but  |O

Buying from Shenzhen on evilbay is easier  :o
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Offline firehopper

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2017, 08:57:29 am »
where I live in the usa, we are just starting to get chip cards, and I only got one a month or 2 ago, most places either have thier chip reader blocked, or dont have one yet, and where I work, the gas station pumps dont have readers, I have one in the booth, but it dont work. and we still get quite a few older folks paying by check.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2017, 09:00:51 am »
The US banking is 'special' Independent small banks swift codes complicated systems of transfer are a PITA! Pre internet banking it was truly horrible.

I ordered some bits online a few weeks ago from a physical store in the USA, entered my credit card numbers to later be informed oh we cant accept overseas Visa or Mastercards seriously where are they both based  :wtf: You will need to pay by paypal..... For 4 days there non cleared payment was removed from my account and labled 'pending'. Most likely a 3rd rate payment gateway in use but  |O

Buying from Shenzhen on evilbay is easier  :o
Well, there's a reason China is rapidly becoming the new economic superpower. If the US can't keep up, it'll have consequences for the economic position of the country.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: Selling gear and wire transfers in the US, why is this so difficult?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2017, 09:11:09 am »
One of the problems with their mainly deregulated free market industry apart from the Global Financial issues  :horse:

Getting your act together without a National policy isn't getting your act together and you will stay behind.
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