Selling Used iPad Pro -- where/who?

[CJay]

I do enjoy seeing these conversations, I find them most amusing.

FWIW,Tooki, you may be right, we install a managed profile on our iDevices (approx 10-12,000 devices across the business) which may be what enforces the data deletion, it will also 'secure wipe' them remotely.

[Halcyon]

I do enjoy seeing these conversations, I find them most amusing.

FWIW,Tooki, you may be right, we install a managed profile on our iDevices (approx 10-12,000 devices across the business) which may be what enforces the data deletion, it will also 'secure wipe' them remotely.

Indeed, corporately managed devices are an entirely different kettle of fish. Security policies are usually more stringent than a standard out-of-the-box consumer device.

[tooki]

That’s what is so unique about iOS, IMHO: it uses corporate level security on consumer devices. You can’t even disable encryption on iOS devices, and each generation has even more hardware level security.

“Find my iPhone”, part of the iCloud services, offers remote wipe, by the way. (And since that’s done by erasing the decryption keys, it’s a secure wipe of sorts.)

[CJay]

That’s what is so unique about iOS, IMHO: it uses corporate level security on consumer devices. You can’t even disable encryption on iOS devices, and each generation has even more hardware level security.

“Find my iPhone”, part of the iCloud services, offers remote wipe, by the way. (And since that’s done by erasing the decryption keys, it’s a secure wipe of sorts.)

You have to log in to the Apple account the device is registered to use 'Find My iDevice' though, with the client we use I can log in and reset the PIN, track, lock out or wipe any user's device as necessary, I believe that functionality may also be available to Apple corporate clients now (?) but our usage of iDevices predates Apple giving a toss about security and is also no doubt embedded deeply in corporate politics too.

I'm afraid however, that I side with Halcyon on data security (my knowledge is not as current as his), if you're unlucky enough to sell your device to someone who has the intention of stealing data then all bets are off, however I would agree that for the average user who sells their device to be re-used it's unlikely to be an issue as long as they 'release' it from the activation lock and do a 'factory' reset/wipe.

[Halcyon]

That’s what is so unique about iOS, IMHO: it uses corporate level security on consumer devices. You can’t even disable encryption on iOS devices, and each generation has even more hardware level security.

“Find my iPhone”, part of the iCloud services, offers remote wipe, by the way. (And since that’s done by erasing the decryption keys, it’s a secure wipe of sorts.)

Those features (except for the per-file encryption) has been standard on Android for years. Android encrypts the entire partition. Unless you've been living under a rock, iPhone hasn't been "unique" in any way for many years, except for being a major pain in the ass when you want to do something simple. Apple stopped innovating a long time ago, rather it's now just a game of "follow the leader" when it comes to phone hardware/software.

"Corporate level security" doesn't really mean much. It's like saying "Hospital grade cleaner", it means nothing.

[tooki]

That’s what is so unique about iOS, IMHO: it uses corporate level security on consumer devices. You can’t even disable encryption on iOS devices, and each generation has even more hardware level security.

“Find my iPhone”, part of the iCloud services, offers remote wipe, by the way. (And since that’s done by erasing the decryption keys, it’s a secure wipe of sorts.)

You have to log in to the Apple account the device is registered to use 'Find My iDevice' though, with the client we use I can log in and reset the PIN, track, lock out or wipe any user's device as necessary, I believe that functionality may also be available to Apple corporate clients now (?)

All of those features have been available to corporate users (via mobile device management and Exchange) for longer than in iCloud. (And of course you have to log in to do that, whether it's MDM, Exchange, or iCloud… not entirely sure what you were trying to say there?)

Those features (except for the per-file encryption) has been standard on Android for years. Android encrypts the entire partition. Unless you've been living under a rock, iPhone hasn't been "unique" in any way for many years, except for being a major pain in the ass when you want to do something simple.

Yes, but they've been standard in iOS for even longer, according to everything I've ever heard. Android was late to that party. Regardless, though, Apple has one big advantage in this arena: vertical integration. They've been building more hardware-level security into each chipset generation, and designing the security hardware and iOS to match each other. With Android being independent from the chipset makers, they can't have quite the same level of deep integration. (For those who aren't aware, the iOS security guide is a fascinating read. It goes into a fair bit about what the hardware and software do.)

Apple stopped innovating a long time ago, rather it's now just a game of "follow the leader" when it comes to phone hardware/software.

The classic war cry of the Apple hater, as Apple whooshes by! Meanwhile, the latest Samsung flagship — which just came out — lags behind the iPhone X in CPU performance, and that iPhone model is going on a year old! There are many valid criticisms of Apple, but SoC performance ain't one of them!

[Halcyon]

Apple stopped innovating a long time ago, rather it's now just a game of "follow the leader" when it comes to phone hardware/software.

The classic war cry of the Apple hater, as Apple whooshes by! Meanwhile, the latest Samsung flagship — which just came out — lags behind the iPhone X in CPU performance, and that iPhone model is going on a year old! There are many valid criticisms of Apple, but SoC performance ain't one of them!

Absolutely, the Apple A11 SOC is more powerful. Can't argue with specifications and benchmarks.

But before I'm completely bowled over by Apple "whooshing by", shall I point out a few other "innovative" decisions Apple made when compared to its competitors, being that the iPhone X has:

• Less RAM
• Less storage capacity
• Lower resolution LCD (which also uses more power)
• Lower resolution front camera
• Higher aperture lens on the rear camera (less sensitive to light)
• No fingerprint or iris scanning
• No support for PMA wireless charging
• Slightly worse water ingress protection
• More expensive to repair using genuine parts
• No 3.5mm audio out
• Maximum slow-motion video recording frame rate of 240fps (vs. 960fps for the Samsung Galaxy S9)
• Lower battery life
• Physically heavier device
• More expensive to purchase

And almost all of those still apply to older Android handsets. But put all that aside for a moment, watch me plug my "lower performing" phone into a standard USB socket on any computer and use it as standard USB storage.

There there, don't cry now *pats back*

[Jeroen3]

 

[tooki]

But before I'm completely bowled over by Apple "whooshing by", shall I point out a few other "innovative" decisions Apple made when compared to its competitors, being that the iPhone X has:

Assuming S9 vs iPhone X

• Less RAM

— because iOS needs less RAM

• Less storage capacity

— 64-256GB on both, identical

• Lower resolution LCD (which also uses more power)

Lower resolutions use less power. Any evidence to support that Apple's screen uses more power? (I question Samsung's logic in using such crazy high-res screens, since at normal viewing distance, the human eye can't resolve but about half the resolution of the S9!)

• Lower resolution front camera

— yep

• Higher aperture lens on the rear camera (less sensitive to light)

— yep

• No fingerprint or iris scanning

— because it has Face ID, which is far more secure than fingerprint or iris scanning

• No support for PMA wireless charging

— who cares? It's got Qi, though I'll freely admit that I think wireless charging is dumb

• Slightly worse water ingress protection

— yep

• More expensive to repair using genuine parts

— definitely

• No 3.5mm audio out

— yep

• Maximum slow-motion video recording frame rate of 240fps (vs. 960fps for the Samsung Galaxy S9)

— yep

• Lower battery life

— yep. I wish Apple would offer a "fat" version of the iPhone (thickness, not screen size, I don't want a phablet!) with 3-4x the internal battery.

• Physically heavier device

— 11 grams

• More expensive to purchase

— true for iPhone X (it's somewhat complicated by the fact that the iPhone X is a luxury variant, while the iPhone 8 is essentially the "normal" version whose pricing is identical to the S9)
[/list]

Don't get me wrong, there are things I think Apple can do better. We just shouldn't poo-poo the things they do well.

[Mr. Scram]

So what's OP's iPad worth?

[Halcyon]

Lower resolutions use less power. Any evidence to support that Apple's screen uses more power? (I question Samsung's logic in using such crazy high-res screens, since at normal viewing distance, the human eye can't resolve but about half the resolution of the S9!)

The iPhone uses an OLED display whilst the Samsung's and others have moved to AMOLED. Yes, the AMOLEDs cost a little more.

I don't have an iPhone here that I can do tests on but generally speaking, AMOLED displays consume less power than OLED displays.

Also, the higher resolution comes in handy when you're plugging your Android phone into a display or television which is becoming increasingly common as you're basically carrying around a fairly powerful computer in your pocket. I've done it on a few occasions. Of course you can adjust the resolution up and down in the settings to suit your needs (and increase your battery's run time). As an example, on my S8, I can adjust the display resolution anywhere from 1480x720 to 2960x1440.

Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

[Mr. Scram]

The iPhone uses an OLED display whilst the Samsung's and others have moved to AMOLED. Yes, the AMOLEDs cost a little more.

I don't have an iPhone here that I can do tests on but generally speaking, AMOLED displays consume less power than OLED displays.

Also, the higher resolution comes in handy when you're plugging your Android phone into a display or television which is becoming increasingly common as you're basically carrying around a fairly powerful computer in your pocket. I've done it on a few occasions. Of course you can adjust the resolution up and down in the settings to suit your needs (and increase your battery's run time). As an example, on my S8, I can adjust the display resolution anywhere from 1480x720 to 2960x1440.

Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

AMOLED is a type of OLED display. PMOLED isn't common in phones due to it being less optimal for larger screen sizes over a few inches.

The iPhone also has an AMOLED display, but calling it OLED is also correct. It's just less specific.

[tooki]

The iPhone uses an OLED display whilst the Samsung's and others have moved to AMOLED. Yes, the AMOLEDs cost a little more.

I don't have an iPhone here that I can do tests on but generally speaking, AMOLED displays consume less power than OLED displays.

Mr. Scram explained it well. iPhone X’s display is AMOLED, too — it’s even made by Samsung. So yeah, I find it extremely hard to believe that the iPhone X’s display uses more power. If anything, it’s likely to use less, since it’s lower resolution and not quite as bright.

P.S. The “AM” in AMOLED stands for “active matrix”. That means that, just like in an active matrix LCD (TFT), there’s a transistor etched into each subpixel. (TFT stands for “thin film transistor”.) The transistor helps to store the pixel’s state and ensures that neighboring pixels don’t interfere with each other, as happens in passive matrix screens. But these transistors actually use some power, so all else held equal, an active matrix display will use more power than a passive matrix display. But the difference in image quality is so huge that we now use active matrix for essentially all color displays, as well as high quality monochrome ones. But one effect is that the lower the resolution, the fewer transistors, and the lower the energy use. Additionally, lower resolution (for a given screen area) means less wasted space in the gaps between subpixels, so the ratio of lit area to unlit areas is better, also saving power.

Also, the higher resolution comes in handy when you're plugging your Android phone into a display or television which is becoming increasingly common as you're basically carrying around a fairly powerful computer in your pocket. I've done it on a few occasions. Of course you can adjust the resolution up and down in the settings to suit your needs (and increase your battery's run time). As an example, on my S8, I can adjust the display resolution anywhere from 1480x720 to 2960x1440.

Ah, well external displays are a completely different issue. I’m talking about the physical resolution of the internal display, and I maintain that a higher resolution (as in, the ppi) is useless above a certain point, which in screens at phone distance is around 300ppi.

The logical display resolution needn’t have anything to do with the physical resolution.

I haven’t used external screens on Android, so I dunno what it’s like. But I do use it on iOS (AirPlay to my TV), and how it works depends on the app. It can mirror the screen, or an app can send a separate video stream to the TV, such as video or a presentation.

Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

I thought I read years ago that Android was going to prohibit apps on microSD storage. Whatever happened with that?

[Jeroen3]

So what's OP's iPad worth?

A 2.6 year old space gray iPad Pro 12.9" 128GB 1st gen, launch price $1079. (assuming A1584 no WWAN)
It has the A9 chip for now up to iOS 11.3.

Somewhere between 400 and 600 depending on the cosmetic condition, I suppose.

[Mr. Scram]

A 2.6 year old space gray iPad Pro 12.9" 128GB 1st gen, launch price $1079. (assuming A1584 no WWAN)
It has the A9 chip for now up to iOS 11.3.

Somewhere between 400 and 600 depending on the cosmetic condition, I suppose.

His model has a cell modem, considering it's apparently connected to Verizon cell service. This model is guaranteed to get an upgrade to iOS 12 and likely to receive a few major upgrades after that.

OP can always start highish and drop the price if it doesn't sell. If you want a quick flip go a bit lower, but not stupid low as something tells me a lot of people will be interested in a Pro for a fair price.

[Halcyon]

Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

I thought I read years ago that Android was going to prohibit apps on microSD storage. Whatever happened with that?

Not sure? Why would Android remove a useful feature like that? (Sounds like more of an Apple thing). I know it wasn't possible to do that with earlier versions of Android (without rooting or using some custom ROM) but it became a standard feature quite some time ago.

It's still present in the current version of Android.

[tooki]

Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

I thought I read years ago that Android was going to prohibit apps on microSD storage. Whatever happened with that?

Not sure? Why would Android remove a useful feature like that? (Sounds like more of an Apple thing). I know it wasn't possible to do that with earlier versions of Android (without rooting or using some custom ROM) but it became a standard feature quite some time ago.

It's still present in the current version of Android.

I forget what the explanation was, hence why I asked!

[Halcyon]

Also, with regards to storage (as I mentioned to you in a PM), most Android phones include a microSD card slot which allows you to increase you memory capacity. You can also install applications to it so it becomes an extension of your internal memory. The newer models are capable ot using microSD cards up to 400GB in size, something that cannot be done on an Apple device.

I thought I read years ago that Android was going to prohibit apps on microSD storage. Whatever happened with that?

Not sure? Why would Android remove a useful feature like that? (Sounds like more of an Apple thing). I know it wasn't possible to do that with earlier versions of Android (without rooting or using some custom ROM) but it became a standard feature quite some time ago.

It's still present in the current version of Android.

I forget what the explanation was, hence why I asked!

I wasn't being critical of you, sorry if it came across that way. But I couldn't help but take another dig at Apple ;-)

[Mr. Scram]

I vaguely remember it might have to do with the MicroSD card being vulnerable to being pulled out and read, which was consequently fixed by encrypting it as well. Don't quote me on that, though.

[Jeroen3]

Then just google it.
https://www.androidpolice.com/2012/10/30/here-is-another-reason-google-continues-to-shun-sd-cards-multiuser-support/
- Poor filesystem. (true)

And DRM.

When your application is installed on the external storage:

There is no effect on the application performance so long as the external storage is mounted on the device.
The .apk file is saved on the external storage, but all private user data, databases, optimized .dex files, and extracted native code are saved on the internal device memory.
The unique container in which your application is stored is encrypted with a randomly generated key that can be decrypted only by the device that originally installed it. Thus, an application installed on an SD card works for only one device.
The user can move your application to the internal storage through the system settings.

When the user enables USB mass storage to share files with their computer (or otherwise unmounts or removes the external storage), any application installed on the external storage and currently running is killed. The system effectively becomes unaware of the application until mass storage is disabled and the external storage is remounted on the device. Besides killing the application and making it unavailable to the user, this can break some types of applications in a more serious way. In order for your application to consistently behave as expected, you should not allow your application to be installed on the external storage if it uses any of the following features, due to the cited consequences when the external storage is unmounted:...

To add to this that SD cards can be of shit quality, severely impacting the experience. Even Google cares about this.

Can we go on topic now?