Author Topic: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)  (Read 6716 times)

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Offline atw60444

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Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« on: May 16, 2014, 07:10:53 pm »

And mis-information. I like the captions "Smart meter is emitting over 50,000 mW/M2"
Erm, that's 3 orders of magnitude out isn't it? 50,000 micro Watts,  more like it.

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Offline nihilism

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 07:37:31 pm »
I wonder if they make them for mobile phones.  :-DD
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 08:04:30 pm »
Oh man, there was a video photonicinduction uploaded with one of these kinds of nuts in the comments, densest person I've met online. Don't know if I can find it.

edit: ah, wasn't photon, it was dave, this guy was worried about the radiation  :palm:. You can read the comments, it's just out of order due to the switchover. The guy in question is 4crpg

« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 08:09:12 pm by XOIIO »
 

Online dexters_lab

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 08:17:08 pm »
these types of product and videos really annoy the piss out of me  :rant:

to clarify... the original video, not Dave's!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 08:19:25 pm by dexters_lab »
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Offline nitro2k01

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2014, 08:29:42 pm »
So this dude has a background in electronics, but doesn't know how to convert between units. The HF analyser has two ranges, 1999 µW/m² and 199.9 µW/m². Since there's no decimal point on the screen, he's in the 1999 µW/m² mode. The meter is showing a value of 500. Now you want to convert this reading into mW/m². Excuse me if my math is a bit rusty, but isn't that supposed to give you 0.5 mW/m², not 50,000 mW/m²? Now the question is, is this incompetence or deception on his part? Another relevant question is to see if he blocks comments...

Edit: Ok, he's using a 20 dB attenuator.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 08:40:05 pm by nitro2k01 »
Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline atw60444

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2014, 08:37:44 pm »
So this dude has a background in electronics, but doesn't know how to convert between units. The HF analyser has two ranges, 1999 µV/m² and 199.9 µV/m². Since there's no decimal point on the screen, he's in the 1999 µV/m² mode. The meter is showing a value of 500. Now you want to convert this reading into mV/m². Excuse me if my math is a bit rusty, but isn't that supposed to give you 0.5 mV/m², not 50,000 mV/m²? Now the question is, is this incompetence or deception on his part? Another relevant question is to see if he blocks comments...

I looked at that too. They sell a 100 x attenuator, which I think he is using. (The readings are in µW/m2 btw) so 50 mW/m2 Which is still bugger all to worry about in my book.

Jon
 

Offline richard.cs

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2014, 09:13:35 pm »
I looked at that too. They sell a 100 x attenuator, which I think he is using. (The readings are in µW/m2 btw) so 50 mW/m2 Which is still bugger all to worry about in my book.

Jon

Think about it like this, the only possible damaging effect of RF power is thermal because the photon energy is way to low to have any chemical effect. People happily subject themselves to 1 kW/m2 centred at 600 THz* and don't worry about it *that* much (and when they do it's only about the shortest wavelengths).

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Offline dannyf

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2014, 09:17:55 pm »
Quote
the only possible damaging effect of RF power is thermal because the photon energy is way to low to have any chemical effect.

So the only damaging effects of RF power are thermal and chemical? Nothing else? Really?
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2014, 09:20:32 pm »
I think there are two things:

1) smart meters radiate;
2) such radiation causes damages.

#1 is indisputable but unimportant unless #2 is shown to be true.
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Offline markus.dnd

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 09:26:39 pm »
AAaaaaa :bullshit:

I always love to read these fearmongerers comments. If you have 2 months of problems with designs and you find another entertaining thread about non ionizing radiation causing cancer in small amounts, it just makes and engineer feel warm inside. No, the problem I had with that high speed IC does not mean I am an idiot... that was just something I did not know before... still capable of learning and critical analysis  8)

 

Offline madires

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 10:21:57 pm »
Quote
the only possible damaging effect of RF power is thermal because the photon energy is way to low to have any chemical effect.

So the only damaging effects of RF power are thermal and chemical? Nothing else? Really?

I doubt that he would x-ray (PHz/EHz) himself all day long.
 

Offline kolbep

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 11:21:49 pm »
Back in 2009, Eskom (Our Power Co in South Africa) Decided to Implement smart meters in Blairgowrie.
Unfortunately there was a bug in their code. Something transmitted a signal on the same frequency that the meters communicated on, and they did not understand the signal, so they sent replies, and then other meters got confused.

Eventually you had thousands of meters in a town all transmitting something on 433mhz, jamming most Car/Gate/Alarm remote controls.
Even worse, now and then the signals were interpereted as a valid transmittion by the remote control receivers, and peoples gates/cars/etc were opening by themselves.

IIRC it took them a long time to figure out where the problem was (imagine ICASA trying to Triangulate in that mess), and then fix it.

At least the battery companies made a killing on remote control batteries

-----
During May 2009 the neighbourhood of Blairgowrie, set just north of Delta Park and next door to Linden, Robindale, Craighall and Bordeaux, all woke to discover that their remotes no longer opened things like cars and gates. Which can prove a little vexing when you need both in order to function at all in Johannesburg. For well over a day technicians roamed the streets in search of the cause, whilst most of the suburb invested in new batteries that did not help at all.

After much debate and various outlandish theories that affected no fewer than 4 000 households, the remote saga was touted as a signal jamming problem. The cause: a small business was broadcasting a data signal that interfered with the city's newly-installed smart meters, installed to give them control over people's geysers.


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Offline richard.cs

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2014, 12:02:44 am »
Quote
the only possible damaging effect of RF power is thermal because the photon energy is way to low to have any chemical effect.

So the only damaging effects of RF power are thermal and chemical? Nothing else? Really?

I doubt that he would x-ray (PHz/EHz) himself all day long.

X-rays (and other ionising radiation) cause chemical damage in that the individual photons have enough energy to break intermolecular bonds. If that happens to DNA in a living cell then there's a small probability that this damage could cause a cancerous mutation, but in the majority of cases the cell just dies.

RF makes things hot, shorter wavelengths make things hot and can break chemical bonds. What other damage mechanisms would you expect? RF currents in tissue mainly do damage by thermal means, low frequencies can cause damage by electrolysis and interfere with nerve signals, not really so with RF.
 

Offline atw60444

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2014, 12:51:12 am »
The main thing that annoys me is people proclaiming to be experts. Then quoting wholly inaccurate figures like 50,000 mW/M2 field intensity (which would be 50 Watts per M2).
Has anyone seen Barry Trower? This expert claims the normal radio waves don't enter your house but microwaves "pass right through". Funny that, why does my mobile phone work better outside and my GPS receiver not see any signals indoors then?
 Neither am I saying that there might not be injurious effects to long term exposure to low level microwave RF, but the Inverse Square law applies. With most meter installations the actual exposure levels are going to be minuscule.
Isn't there a video of Dave donning a tin foil hat from some years back?

Jon

 
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2014, 12:57:14 am »
Quote
With most meter installations the actual exposure levels are going to be minuscule.

I wouldn't say that it is minuscule (which means small and unharmful). I think it is small, with uncertain / unknown or even unknowable health effects.
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Offline Stonent

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2014, 01:07:55 am »
It's the word radiation.  I've got into arguments with people on youtube who throw around smart meter "radiation" as if it was nuclear.  A lot of these smart meter wackos do that.  One guy actually admitted that he means electromagnetic radiation but wouldn't update his channel title.

(An EMF meter is not a Geiger counter!)



The other crazies are the ones who buy old Civil Defense survey meters (and call them Geiger counters) and wave them around saying there's radiation anywhere.

Survey Meters (not Geiger counters) detect face melting / lethal radiation levels, not anything you'd find on your own.

Think of a Geiger counter as a volt meter that has a scale of 1uV to 1mV and a survey meter has a 10v scale but no decimal points.  Most of the CDV 715 survey meters only move because they are defective.



« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 01:10:13 am by Stonent »
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2014, 01:15:52 am »
Quote
smart meter "radiation" as if it was nuclear.

They are indeed the same (aka "radiation"), from the point of view of physics.

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Offline electronics man

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 01:21:09 am »
Quote
smart meter "radiation" as if it was nuclear.

They are indeed the same (aka "radiation"), from the point of view of physics.

erm no most nuclear radiation is partical like beta and alpha. ionising electromagnetic radiation is xray, gamma and UV and NOT microwave or radio. radio waves just dont have neerly the energy to cause cancer as beta, alpha, gamma, xray and UV
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Offline Stonent

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 01:21:35 am »
Quote
smart meter "radiation" as if it was nuclear.

They are indeed the same (aka "radiation"), from the point of view of physics.

Yes, but people don't understand. And idiots like the guy in the first video that I posted say crap like "measuring my smart meter radiation with a geiger counter"
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 01:26:41 am »
Quote
erm no most nuclear radiation is partical like beta and alpha. ionising electromagnetic radiation is xray, gamma and UV and NOT microwave or radio.

Google duality paradox.

Should be covered in any decent physics 101 textbook.
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Offline dannyf

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 01:28:22 am »
Quote
And idiots like the guy in the first video that I posted say crap like "measuring my smart meter radiation with a geiger counter"

Yeah. No point in arguing with that guy, for sure, :)
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Offline Stonent

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2014, 01:38:00 am »
I told him if he wants to be taken seriously, learn the names of the tools he's using.
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Offline electronics man

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Re: Smart Meter Radiation (The latest source of paranoia!)
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2014, 04:18:59 am »
Quote
erm no most nuclear radiation is partical like beta and alpha. ionising electromagnetic radiation is xray, gamma and UV and NOT microwave or radio.

Google duality paradox.

Should be covered in any decent physics 101 textbook.

its more relevent to beta particals (high energy electrons) than alpha (helium neuclei)
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