Author Topic: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep  (Read 28822 times)

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Offline sleemanjTopic starter

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« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 04:33:37 am by sleemanj »
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Offline Dubbie

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2017, 04:57:00 am »
Anyone want to guess at how this could have happened? Failure in the mains isolation in counterfeit charger + frayed cable?
 

Offline ataradov

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2017, 05:10:02 am »
Even if this was direct mains, I don't see how you can electrocute yourself with this.

And, obviously, don't "fix" cables with packing tape.
Alex
 
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Offline hermit

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 05:11:21 am »
I'm not buying into this one quite yet.
 
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 05:38:57 am »
I'm not buying into this one quite yet.

Yep, she could have had a reaction to peanuts for all we know, speaking of which I find the article headline somewhat misleading and borderline click bait considering that in the article it declares the police are yet to determine whether it was an Apple branded charger or a dangerous copy.

I'm no fan of Apple product but in this instance I believe that they do deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise, if they are found to be negligent then by all means broadcast it to make others aware but If it wasn't their product then somebody else needs to be held to account for the defamatory statement.
 
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Offline PTR_1275

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 05:44:14 am »
I'm remembering a click bait news article a while back about a bloke getting electrocuted while using his phone in the bath and charging it. Turns out he had the charger plugged into a extension cord and that fell into the bath or something.

I saw the charger in this case and thought its not a genuine one. I'm sure the investigators will open it and see, but the news reports probably won't change. It also looks a bit burnt where the cable is plugged into the charger, or are my eyes deceiving me?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2017, 05:46:44 am »
The charger looks dodgy, my Apple chargers don't have the injection molding dent on its side.
The cable looks genuine, as a rule of thumb, genuine cables fail on its cable, fake cables fail on its connector.
BTW, for the fun, take a look at Vietnam's electricity standard :scared: :scared:.
http://www.adoptvietnam.org/travel/electronicsplugs.htm
Real cables fail on the connector too, those nice design end connectors are terrible when it comes to the forces it's exposed to.

However, if you use a cello-taped charger cable, you're pretty much on your own, even if that should only mean exposure to 5 volts.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2017, 05:47:22 am »
I'm having trouble visualizing the current path for electrocution...

Is there something else that they haven't mentioned - like exposed, earthed, conductive surfaces or fittings in the vicinity?

I'm remembering a click bait news article a while back about a bloke getting electrocuted while using his phone in the bath and charging it. Turns out he had the charger plugged into a extension cord and that fell into the bath or something.
Yes, something like that.  You know, just an insignificant little detail...
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2017, 06:16:12 am »
I'm having trouble visualizing the current path for electrocution...

Is there something else that they haven't mentioned - like exposed, earthed, conductive surfaces or fittings in the vicinity?

I'm remembering a click bait news article a while back about a bloke getting electrocuted while using his phone in the bath and charging it. Turns out he had the charger plugged into a extension cord and that fell into the bath or something.
Yes, something like that.  You know, just an insignificant little detail...

YEP, what they describe so far is 100% physically impossible. We already had a girl die earlier this year from grabbing a frayed cord while in a tub. But that's current through the body to ground. Even if there was a current path in this case it would have to be across the body which I don't see happening in a bed. So unless Darwin was hungry and her family believed in "Earthing" meaning she had a grounded plate in her bed or grounded bed frame, their report is total bullshit and something else killed her.

GOOGLING IN PROGRESS

EDIT: EVIDENCE:
Quote
Black burn marks were found on her bedding.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 06:27:40 am by Cyberdragon »
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2017, 08:53:25 am »
Anyone want to guess at how this could have happened? Failure in the mains isolation in counterfeit charger + frayed cable?
Cable insulation does not matter. When cable connected to iphone, it's enclosure becomes under the same potential as well. If it isn't connected to anything, you have exposed connector anyway.
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2017, 09:10:15 am »

You all seem to think that the ground connection on the phone will be ground of the house. How can that be? Any exposed metal will sit firmly half way between 0 and live voltage which is probably 110 volts or so.

I am not sure it can carry enough to kill you but it is certainly enough to give me a shock on several occasions.
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 09:21:18 am »

You all seem to think that the ground connection on the phone will be ground of the house. How can that be? Any exposed metal will sit firmly half way between 0 and live voltage which is probably 110 volts or so.

I am not sure it can carry enough to kill you but it is certainly enough to give me a shock on several occasions.

That's called Y capacitor leakage. IEC60950-1 has strict rules on that, so despite you can see open circuit 110V, when loaded by your body, the voltage drops to very low.
Yes, it can give you a jolt in 220V/240V areas, but it's not enough to harm kill you. In 100V/120V regions, you will not be able to feel it.

I think "would not normally kill someone" is closer to the mark. Too many variables to say never.
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 09:32:31 am »
Why arent these chargers fully isolated from the mains? I thought they were?
 

Offline TMM

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 09:36:01 am »
Power and ground wires short due to damaged cable -> isolation transformer (or lack of) in counterfeit charger overheats and breaks down -> mains makes it's way to the low voltage output -> no GFCI/RCD because vietnam -> person gets electrocuted and dies
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 09:37:30 am »
Why arent these chargers fully isolated from the mains? I thought they were?

They are as fully isolated as you can make something that is not polarised and has two connection, one at 0 and one at supply voltage. Any metal work will sit between those two levels until you connect ti to anything that is referenced to something else.

Measure it yourself. Take anything that plugs into the mains by a two pin plug and measure with a voltmeter between a known ground and any metal on the thing that is plugged in. It will measure half supply voltage if your meter is high enough impedance.
 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2017, 10:15:15 am »
I understand the Y cap but I don't see why they are merely investigating the cable, they should investigate the charger, analyze the root cause for failure and if indeed it is a genuine charger and the y cap is the cause issue a recall action. BTW if someone can afford a $600 phone why would they not buy the genuine charger it riddles me.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2017, 10:20:09 am »
I understand the Y cap but I don't see why they are merely investigating the cable, they should investigate the charger, analyze the root cause for failure and if indeed it is a genuine charger and the y cap is the cause issue a recall action. BTW if someone can afford a $600 phone why would they not buy the genuine charger it riddles me.
A charger is not a status symbol.
 

Offline Mjolinor

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2017, 10:22:00 am »

Quote
A charger is not a status symbol.

If I may be so bold:
A charger is not a perceived status symbol. :)

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2017, 11:08:04 am »

If I may be so bold:
A charger is not a perceived status symbol. :)
That's the same by definition.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2017, 11:35:21 am »
I'm having trouble visualizing the current path for electrocution...

At least one other article about/with this story, seems to be saying (including my own INTERPRETATION) that if she was indeed electrocuted (I will try NOT to speculate, until a proper investigation has been carried out). It was between the charger (which had a damaged/exposed partly open case) and the charging lead. Hence providing the two contact paths for possible electrocution.

Disclaimer:
Since the details (even in the link below), are somewhat vague and not really detailed enough, to know for sure at this point in time.

http://cote-ivoire.com/2017/11/17/teen-14-electrocuted-after-rolling-over-phone-charging-cable.html

N.B. I'm NOT sure if they mean that both the chargers case and the charging cable, had exposed "metal". Or only one of them. My "INTERPRETATION", is that they mean BOTH were faulty/fake. Hence providing the two electrical contact points.

Alternatively, two different points in the cable were exposed, and again, that gives the two conduction paths.

EDIT: Clarification:
What I mean is, I am technically speaking "speculating". But I would really like to wait until the official reports come out, before reaching any firm conclusions.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 11:39:52 am by MK14 »
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2017, 11:38:07 am »
Ever lived in a third world country? It's typical that an expensive thing is available as a package, but no individual accessories are carried by seller.
Not lived but visited some.
But this has nothing to do with third world countries, I see colleagues with $1 cables from Ebay instead of the $15 original cables and probably also the cheap chargers, it is a global phenomenon where people don't want to spent more money if they think they get the same goods for less money but bring in a deathly device in disguise in to their homes and expose them to their children.
Actually it is very simple no mains connected electronic device should be allowed to be imported without certificates that this product complies to the safety regulations for that country.
Or ban mains connected devices from being imported by consumers just as other illegal products such as animals, meat, drugs, etc.
Let manufacturers build DC devices and let the consumers buy a certified dc power supply in their own country.
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2017, 11:48:18 am »
Sorry, my previous post was too long. Summary:
Well worn cable frayed/fake/faulty in two places, hence providing two conduction points/path for electrocution.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2017, 11:51:54 am »

Not lived but visited some.
But this has nothing to do with third world countries, I see colleagues with $1 cables from Ebay instead of the $15 original cables and probably also the cheap chargers, it is a global phenomenon where people don't want to spent more money if they think they get the same goods for less money but bring in a deathly device in disguise in to their homes and expose them to their children.
Actually it is very simple no mains connected electronic device should be allowed to be imported without certificates that this product complies to the safety regulations for that country.
Or ban mains connected devices from being imported by consumers just as other illegal products such as animals, meat, drugs, etc.
Let manufacturers build DC devices and let the consumers buy a certified dc power supply in their own country.
Few will think it's a similar quality. Again, it's not a status symbol.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 01:27:25 pm »
It actually takes a very small amount of current applied in the right place on a person to kill them and this case we don't have all the facts. For instance, was she sleeping on metal bedstead and if so, was that metal in way grounded, so if the braid on the phone wire was connected to live because of a 2 pin plug then she may have been contacting both live and ground with her body? Its possible that her mattress  was damp or had exposed coil springs contacting her and earthed metal?

Fact is we don't actually know for real, what happened or the conditions at the time. Point to take away from all this is that its best not to take a phone or any tablet etc to bed with you at all and it should always be left on something incombustible, especially if its on charge and away from anything else that could catch fire should anything untoward happen We all know that these batteries can (fortunately not very often), explode in a small fire ball.   
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Offline Mjolinor

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Re: Teen dead after rolling on to iPhone cable in her sleep
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2017, 01:49:58 pm »

I read ebooks on a tablet in bed but I will never ever consider using it in bed while connected to anything. If the battery is flat I go to sleep and charge it the next day.
 


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