TESLA finally launches a truck/semi ? AND some solarpower in PUERTO RICO.

[Corporate666]

I am in the market to buy a new car right now.

I am a technology person and would like to buy a full electric vehicle, but as much as I like them, the technology is just not there yet.  They are a burden to own compared to a gas car.

They require you to think and plan and work around them, whereas a gas car does not.  I am actually not convinced that battery EV's are ever going to succeed until we have a revolutionary battery technology come along.  What we have now isn't it.  Even with supercharging, I don't want to sit for a half hour to charge when I can fill up with gas in 2-3 minutes. 

There is always a knee of the curve, a killer app, a price point, or a threshold that needs to be met before a technology really catches on.  VCR's could do time-shifting for years, but only when digital storage made it really easy did it take off.  And only when EV's are as convenient as ICE cars will they take off.

Until then, they will be bought by tech savvy early adopters willing to live with the (severe) shortcomings and by people who like getting $10k of their fellow taxpayers money for their luxury car.

like most people you are not being imaginative and expect a like for like replacement. So where do you work? does your employer have roof space to put solar panels on so that you can charge your car while at work? there are cars capable of 200-250 miles. If my employer made at work car charging a thing I'd buy a second hand electric tomottow aqnd travel for 1/10 the cost I do now plus have juice to plug the car into the house and run the house for free..........

Engineers often have a bad habit of not understanding human nature and sales and think that people just need to adapt themselves to the products they create rather than making products that work best for the consumer.  That's why they do things like use + and - buttons for the volume of a radio rather than a knob - the latter allowing for faster adjustment, more resolution, etc. 

That's what you are doing here.  The problem is not that I lack imagination.  The problem is the product.  I like the other aspects of an EV, but I don't want to deal with the long charging times.  Sure, in many cases it would not be an issue... but in some cases, it WOULD be an issue.  And it is an issue I do not care to deal with.  I also do not care to deal with planning my trips and my routes to make sure chargers are available to me (and hope space is available when I get there - especially for example if I reserve a hotel room based on that hotel having chargers for guests). 

I thought about getting a Tesla for my new car, but the technology just isn't there yet.  It is a fine car for a multi-car family when you have the option of taking the gasoline powered car when you need to drive a longer distance or go on a road trip, or for when the power went out or you forgot to plug it in or whatever.  But for a replacement for a combustion engine car?  The technology just isn't there yet. 

Which is why they aren't selling.  People just don't want to buy them.  They buy them only with huge price discounts.  That isn't really about furthering the technology - that's just keeping the manufacturers alive (and still losing grotesque quantites of money even with the subsidies, I might add).

[Simon]

So what is it you like about them? they seem to hold some advantage.

I am afraid that to a degree people have to adapt. I spent all of my working time compromising, everything is a compromise and that means everyone can't have everything they want. The general public will just have to change, charging has nothing to do with it for most people, they just want a combustion engine full stop and they can hardly tell you why. So if they are going to have to make such a seismic shift they can adapt to a few things too. I mean horses still exist or you very own shankssis pony (walking) if you don't like what the market and the best of current engineering has to offer. The general public has been spoilt with stuff over the years and just expect more of what they want regardless of what is feasible. As i keep trying to explain to my own father you can't go against the laws of physics.

[Corporate666]

I think most people find having to go to a gas station is a burden compared to simply charging at home. And hence why I think plug in hybrids would be the way to go for the near future. For that matter, I wonder how come the idea of an EV with a generator trailer to convert it into a plug in hybrid hasn't taken off.

I find stopping to get gas to be a pain in the ass.  I actually dislike going to shops and running errands more than most people I think... I do just about all my shopping online, and I tend to actually go into a shop once every two months, if that.   The idea of not having to stop to get gas is appealing to me.  However, having to plug my car in every time I stop would be a chore.  I have a few cars and generally my daily driver sits in the driveway.  I wouldn't want to have to open some box mounted on the wall and haul out a big cable and plug my car in each time I stop, especially in freezing winter weather or rain.  I park indoors at work, so it would be easier - but still a hassle compared to not having to do anything with my current ICE car.  The total time consumed plugging in the vehicle at the start and drop of my commute would be well in excess of the 3 minutes (estimated) I spend every 2 weeks getting gas.  Some sort of automatic charging solution would be appealing, but only solves part of the problem.

The other part of the issue is that I can't just refill the vehicle whenever I want.  I don't want to deal with having to think about how full it is.  That's something I don't have to think about now and I wouldn't like to take on that additional consideration for a future vehicle.  Engineers ignore this concern at their peril.  I think the Chevy Volt was a really neat solution.  I wish there was some sort of trunk-mountable "aux power unit" that was just a pre-engineered solution that let me put gasoline in there and it would connect to the vehicle's electrical system and burn gas to generate electricity.   It would be great for peace of mind or to bring along if I was going on a long trip or just for times when I worked a 16 hour day, forgot to plug the car in and got a call requiring me to visit a client site the next day unexpectedly.  In a pure EV, that would become a hassle.

[Corporate666]

So what is it you like about them? they seem to hold some advantage.

I am afraid that to a degree people have to adapt. I spent all of my working time compromising, everything is a compromise and that means everyone can't have everything they want. The general public will just have to change, charging has nothing to do with it for most people, they just want a combustion engine full stop and they can hardly tell you why. So if they are going to have to make such a seismic shift they can adapt to a few things too. I mean horses still exist or you very own shankssis pony (walking) if you don't like what the market and the best of current engineering has to offer. The general public has been spoilt with stuff over the years and just expect more of what they want regardless of what is feasible. As i keep trying to explain to my own father you can't go against the laws of physics.

I like that they are quiet - that is huge for me - I like my car to be a tranquil and relaxing place where I can do some thinking.  I don't listen to music or podcasts... I think.  I like the (expected) reduced service costs.  There's so much complexity in a combustion engine and so many fluids and mechanisms... I don't think current EV's really do the best job they could (which would be motors on each wheel) - so they are sort of a hack between an ideal solution and what works within our current framework.

I disagree that people have to adapt.   Capitalism doesn't work that way - people will always go with what works best.  There are tons of technologies that were tried numerous times and failed each time until some little tweak was made that hit some sweet spot and made it catch on like wild fire.  There are people who have a problem with EV's but they are the vocal minority and equal to the fanbois who will excuse Tesla for anything.  Most people don't really know much about the subject either way.  If they go to the dealer, they would probably be open to test driving and they would need to have an experience that's better than a gas car.  But one of their first questions would always be "what about when the batteries die"" - it's something we all have personal experience with on our mobile devices.  The answer of course is "how often do you run out of gas?".  Personally, I never have.  Neither have most, I think.  But then the next question becomes "Ok, so when I stop to charge this up - how long does it take?" and when the answer is hours - people get turned off.  Telling them they have to adapt and plan better so they always have enough battery power isn't the answer.  They will just not buy the cars in favor of combustion cars - which is what they are doing now.

[Fungus]

I don't want to sit for a half hour to charge when I can fill up with gas in 2-3 minutes. 

OTOH overnight charging at home will let you avoid an awful lot of trips to the gas station.   

I have a few cars.

You already solved your own problem. You could take an old-fashioned ICE car when you go on long trips or do something other than the daily commute where you think range might be a problem.

(although you might find you no longer want to - see below)

I wouldn't want to have to open some box mounted on the wall and haul out a big cable and plug my car in each time I stop

Try focusing on the positives instead of the negatives. Most people who own electric cars (especially Teslas) seem to like driving them so much that it really isn't a chore to plug them in when they get home. It's more like, "Thank you car, you've earned this!"

Ref: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s

[jonovid]

So what is it you like about them? they seem to hold some advantage.

I am afraid that to a degree people have to adapt. I spent all of my working time compromising, everything is a compromise and that means everyone can't have everything they want. The general public will just have to change, charging has nothing to do with it for most people, they just want a combustion engine full stop and they can hardly tell you why. So if they are going to have to make such a seismic shift they can adapt to a few things too. I mean horses still exist or you very own shankssis pony (walking) if you don't like what the market and the best of current engineering has to offer. The general public has been spoilt with stuff over the years and just expect more of what they want regardless of what is feasible. As i keep trying to explain to my own father you can't go against the laws of physics.

I like that they are quiet - that is huge for me - I like my car to be a tranquil and relaxing place where I can do some thinking.  I don't listen to music or podcasts... I think.  I like the (expected) reduced service costs.  There's so much complexity in a combustion engine and so many fluids and mechanisms... I don't think current EV's really do the best job they could (which would be motors on each wheel) - so they are sort of a hack between an ideal solution and what works within our current framework.

I disagree that people have to adapt.   Capitalism doesn't work that way - people will always go with what works best.  There are tons of technologies that were tried numerous times and failed each time until some little tweak was made that hit some sweet spot and made it catch on like wild fire.  There are people who have a problem with EV's but they are the vocal minority and equal to the fanbois who will excuse Tesla for anything.  Most people don't really know much about the subject either way.  If they go to the dealer, they would probably be open to test driving and they would need to have an experience that's better than a gas car.  But one of their first questions would always be "what about when the batteries die"" - it's something we all have personal experience with on our mobile devices.  The answer of course is "how often do you run out of gas?".  Personally, I never have.  Neither have most, I think.  But then the next question becomes "Ok, so when I stop to charge this up - how long does it take?" and when the answer is hours - people get turned off.  Telling them they have to adapt and plan better so they always have enough battery power isn't the answer.  They will just not buy the cars in favor of combustion cars - which is what they are doing now.

on the positive is that Tesla has made electric vehicles fast , cool & desirable.
on the negative Tesla's  vehicles are still expensive in comparison to the cheapest petrol vehicles with good styling.
so when the Chinese finally manufacture cool & desirable electric vehicle that is very basic, cheap & reliable. only then will be popular. diesel generator in a trailer is an upgrade. so is a bigger battery pack, electric motors on all wheels. Tesla is like apple computers, expensive! remember when windows computers needed lots of hardware upgrades just to play games or video.   a generator upgrad in/on the vehicle is better.

[Fungus]

Yeah, I've often wondered why they don't make some sort of range-extending trailer.

The only answer I can come up with is that it's not actually needed in practice. That range-anxiety is all in your imagination, you never really need to drive 500 miles without stopping for bathroom/coffee and that being able to plug in at home is way better than going out of your way to gas stations.

And that's without even considering the silence/power/reliability/lack of oil changes, etc.

[Simon]

once again those that claim electric would be great if only....... and then come up with a load of excuses that amount to: because it does not do what a gas car does........ and does bnot do better than gas in my opinion that is based on the fact that i prefer a combustion engine and i can't tell you why.

I like the idea of being able to travel for 2 pence/miles instead of 18 pence /mile, would i go to the effort to plug in every night for that, hell yes. Range extenders are available on cars so ultimately being caught short and long trips is not a problem. A small generator with a limited tank will go a long way because electric is ultimately much more efficient. I sit here with a headache having just spent the day across the road on a charity stall all day from a bloody diesel generator that supplied me with toxic air all day, hell yes I'd like to see the back of that. The advantages of electric are many over combustion but many of the advantages are not immediate but to the benefit of all like cleaner air. But the average consumer is a selfish and lazy little shit that expects to gain personally from adopting what simply is sensible progressive technology. If you don't like it don't use it, just bare in mind one day you will be walking instead of driving.

[Simon]

I think most people find having to go to a gas station is a burden compared to simply charging at home. And hence why I think plug in hybrids would be the way to go for the near future. For that matter, I wonder how come the idea of an EV with a generator trailer to convert it into a plug in hybrid hasn't taken off.

I find stopping to get gas to be a pain in the ass.  I actually dislike going to shops and running errands more than most people I think... I do just about all my shopping online, and I tend to actually go into a shop once every two months, if that.   The idea of not having to stop to get gas is appealing to me.  However, having to plug my car in every time I stop would be a chore.  I have a few cars and generally my daily driver sits in the driveway.  I wouldn't want to have to open some box mounted on the wall and haul out a big cable and plug my car in each time I stop, especially in freezing winter weather or rain.  I park indoors at work, so it would be easier - but still a hassle compared to not having to do anything with my current ICE car.  The total time consumed plugging in the vehicle at the start and drop of my commute would be well in excess of the 3 minutes (estimated) I spend every 2 weeks getting gas.  Some sort of automatic charging solution would be appealing, but only solves part of the problem.

The other part of the issue is that I can't just refill the vehicle whenever I want.  I don't want to deal with having to think about how full it is.  That's something I don't have to think about now and I wouldn't like to take on that additional consideration for a future vehicle.  Engineers ignore this concern at their peril.  I think the Chevy Volt was a really neat solution.  I wish there was some sort of trunk-mountable "aux power unit" that was just a pre-engineered solution that let me put gasoline in there and it would connect to the vehicle's electrical system and burn gas to generate electricity.   It would be great for peace of mind or to bring along if I was going on a long trip or just for times when I worked a 16 hour day, forgot to plug the car in and got a call requiring me to visit a client site the next day unexpectedly.  In a pure EV, that would become a hassle.

You could always hire people to "look" after you if you can't be bothered to do the basic things. I mean if you want to drive a vehicle you need to fuel it. I bet you won't complain about the near 1/10 of the cost to run it but you complain about having to plug in. I bet walking would be tedious too ?

[Someone]

I like the idea of being able to travel for 2 pence/miles instead of 18 pence /mile, would i go to the effort to plug in every night for that, hell yes.

More corner case numbers from the world of distraction, when using market rates and a realistic comparison vehicle a Tesla is not so cheap to run:

The red line is the cost comparison for a Mercedes Benz C 220 CDI compared to a typical Tesla. We can come forward in time and check similar data again for the UK (just in case energy prices changed a lot)
http://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/driving-costs/fuel-prices  120p per l for diesel or petrol
https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energy/tariffs-per-unit-kwh#current-unit-rates 13p per kWh
and for todays vehicle lets go with an Audi A5
http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx
Petrol 6.4 l/100km and Diesel 4.2 l/100km
Tesla 20kWh/100km

Multiplying those out:
Petrol: 768p/100km
Diesel:504p/100km
Electric: 250p/100km

Your government comes up with almost identical numbers on their own comparison tool:
http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx
They show a Telsas energy costs for 12,000 miles per year costing roughly half as much as the Diesel comparison and 1/3rd as much as the Petrol.
2/18 <<< 6/18 < 9/18
Or do you plan on taking free energy from the super chargers, or charging on some other discount source that you don't mention?

[Simon]

my understanding is that electric cars of small size use 200Wh/mile and medium ones use 300Wh/mile. Here in the UK overnight electricity prices are £0.08/KWh so that is £0.02 per mile. I pay £1.25 for 1 litre of petrol or £5.675 per gallon (4.54 litres). My car does 43mpg, so that is £0.132 per mile. I also have to add redex to my fuel as without it on the short journeys i do engine performance deteriorates badly (an electric on the other hand would have full torque right off the bat no matter what my driving type is).

So on fuel alone my costs are nearly 7 times higher and i intentionally try to avoid rush hours because sitting in traffic with a combustion engine costs money. sitting in traffic with an electric car costs virtually nothing and crawling in traffic uses 100W/mile in an BMW i3.

[Simon]

As i hinted earlier if we were doing this whole "benefit to society" thing my employer could install solar panels on their extensive factory roof and not only could they power the factory and our office off it they could charge many electric cars. Some of those are driven but a few miles home. I for example travel 6.5 miles to work. So that is 3.25 KWh, now if i was being recharged by 10KWh/day I could quite easily get home and plug my car into the house and have nearly 7KWh available to power my home. If I am only at home in the evening i use less than 5KWh of electricity.......

[tszaboo]

I like the idea of being able to travel for 2 pence/miles instead of 18 pence /mile, would i go to the effort to plug in every night for that, hell yes.

More corner case numbers from the world of distraction, when using market rates and a realistic comparison vehicle a Tesla is not so cheap to run:

The red line is the cost comparison for a Mercedes Benz C 220 CDI compared to a typical Tesla. We can come forward in time and check similar data again for the UK (just in case energy prices changed a lot)
http://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/driving-costs/fuel-prices  120p per l for diesel or petrol
https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energy/tariffs-per-unit-kwh#current-unit-rates 13p per kWh
and for todays vehicle lets go with an Audi A5
http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx
Petrol 6.4 l/100km and Diesel 4.2 l/100km
Tesla 20kWh/100km

Multiplying those out:
Petrol: 768p/100km
Diesel:504p/100km
Electric: 250p/100km

Your government comes up with almost identical numbers on their own comparison tool:
http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx
They show a Telsas energy costs for 12,000 miles per year costing roughly half as much as the Diesel comparison and 1/3rd as much as the Petrol.
2/18 <<< 6/18 < 9/18
Or do you plan on taking free energy from the super chargers, or charging on some other discount source that you don't mention?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_congestion_charge
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_incentives_for_plug-in_electric_vehicles#United_Kingdom
Though I'm not an UK expert, I'm sure there are other benefits. In Hungary, it is worth to have an electric, because you dont pay for the parking, charging is free at any spot, tax is reduced, you will be able to use the bus lane and so on.

[Simon]

screw the incentives electric is more efficient AND  I can make my own........

[phil from seattle]

"not so cheap to run" but then fully admit that its 1/2 to 1/3 the cost.   

The point about other reasons to own an EV is spot on. 

• An EV has significantly better acceleration than an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) Vehicle. While it's easy to disparage that as unnecessary, the increased acceleration makes the car more responsive.
• It's a quieter ride.
• Regeneration significantly increases the efficiency of EVs.
• With home charging, you start each day with full range. The effort to do that is about 15 seconds plugging and unplugging.
• EVs are significantly less complex than an ICE. This should yield two benefits: lower cost manufacturing and higher reliability.  Because battery cost is dominant, the first benefit isn't obvious. The second point results in lower maintenance costs.
• No oil changes, no tune ups, no radiator antifreeze. Regen braking means brakes last a lot longer. That should be factored into per mile/km costs. All sorts of systems that simply don't exist (fuel, exhaust, radiator, oil, emission controls,...) and thus don't need repair or maintenance. 
• And best of all, you don't have to ever go to a gas station again.

So, yeah, I own an EV - Model S. If it got wrecked tomorrow, I'd get another one.

[kaz911]

my understanding is that electric cars of small size use 200Wh/mile and medium ones use 300Wh/mile. Here in the UK overnight electricity prices are £0.08/KWh so that is £0.02 per mile. I pay £1.25 for 1 litre of petrol or £5.675 per gallon (4.54 litres). My car does 43mpg, so that is £0.132 per mile. I also have to add redex to my fuel as without it on the short journeys i do engine performance deteriorates badly (an electric on the other hand would have full torque right off the bat no matter what my driving type is).

So on fuel alone my costs are nearly 7 times higher and i intentionally try to avoid rush hours because sitting in traffic with a combustion engine costs money. sitting in traffic with an electric car costs virtually nothing and crawling in traffic uses 100W/mile in an BMW i3.

So when the Government feels the pinch of Electric cars indirect subsidies like VAT at 5% for electricity vs VAT 20% on Fuel and the duties and taxes on fuels are morphed towards electricity as well - what do you think will happen

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty

I could “earn” a bunch of monies via Subsidies to exchange my Natural Gas boilers with Heat Pumps and get a heck of a lot of Goverment subsidies. But payback is so dependent on electricity costs. And demand and supply dictates prices. As Electricity demand is increasing - price will increase over time. But natural Gas prices are dropping as natural gas demand is decreasing.

Just this year vs last year my electricity has gone from 0.09/kWh to 0.1115/kWh but my Natural Gas has gone from 0.0321/kWh to 0.0266/kWh (excl. 5% vat) - that is of course excluding standing charge.

So now I’m thinking of putting in some Natural Gas to Electricity converters - as it seems I can make my own electricity for about 0.04 / kWh incl service fees/maintenance etc. On top of that I get a generous donation from the government for every kWh I produce - much better than solar (about 0.1295 / kWh at this moment) + on top of that I get about 0.05 / kWh I export.... I feel it is a bit like stealing from the public - but you have to follow the rules.

And it is not green - but it is greener than buying electricity delivered via the current net.

I’m still in the research phase on the converter but I’ll keep you all updated.

[Lord of nothing]

Electric vs. Fossil Fuel also depend on the National Tax.
But again 98% of all Country in the World use the Metrical System can we use it here to?
Thanks! 

[Rick Law]

I am in the market to buy a new car right now.
...

This year was a bad hurricane year.  Be on the look out for flood-cars.  While there are certain laws/regulations, protection is not 100%.   This may not be EE, but then most likely wet/moist electronics would be a significant problem for the flood-cars.

Consumers Report and other major publications all of good articles on the issues how these dry-up clean-up lemons do get into the market and how to spot them.

[Lord of nothing]

Is there no Warranty? 

[Rick Law]

Is there no Warranty? 

I assume that is in reference to flood-cars.

Yeah, most if not all new cars sold in the USA has Warranty -- but but do you really want to visit the repair shop so often?

Also, as the magazine articles pointed out, some damages could show up years later after warranty expired.  One of the flood-car articles specifically mentioned moist electronics being a problem as some of these damages takes a while for corrosion to get bad enough to affect it.  Wet metal may also take a while to show a problem.  Your hood (or ball joints or whatever parts) may rust away in year 4 off whereas other exact same model cars have no rust issue at those spots.

[Corporate666]

OTOH overnight charging at home will let you avoid an awful lot of trips to the gas station.   

It's really not though.  I put gas in my car just about every 2 weeks... so we're talking 12 fill-ups per year, at about maybe 3 minutes each.  It's not something I enjoy doing, but it's not something that registers much at all on my "pain in the ass, wish I didn't have to do it" meter.  Plugging a car in twice daily would be more of a pain in the ass, frankly.

You already solved your own problem. You could take an old-fashioned ICE car when you go on long trips or do something other than the daily commute where you think range might be a problem.

But in this case I am seeking to replace my daily driver.  My other vehicles most definitely aren't daily drivers.

Try focusing on the positives instead of the negatives. Most people who own electric cars (especially Teslas) seem to like driving them so much that it really isn't a chore to plug them in when they get home. It's more like, "Thank you car, you've earned this!"

I think this goes back to what I said previously about engineers wanting the customer to adapt to the product rather than making the product suit the customer.  I know EV's have benefits and I would like those benefits, but not at the cost of the charging/range issue.  I think we can collectively chastise consumers for not being clued in enough to understand what's good for them, or we can assume people aren't stupid and aren't buying EV's because they don't fit the bill.  I think the latter is clearly true - that problem needs to be addressed for them to take off and become successful.

It may happen through significantly longer range and greatly reduced charge time - if my EV could charge in 20 minutes and had a range of 1,000 miles... it would be a different situation.

[Corporate666]

You could always hire people to "look" after you if you can't be bothered to do the basic things. I mean if you want to drive a vehicle you need to fuel it. I bet you won't complain about the near 1/10 of the cost to run it but you complain about having to plug in. I bet walking would be tedious too ?

Grow up.

The simple fact is that EV's aren't selling.  Even with all the subsidies and handouts, they don't sell.  You can stubbornly refuse to accept the reality that is staring you in the face and believe that everyone just needs to be forced to bend to your viewpoint, or you can take a look at how markets really work and understand that EV's will sell when they make sense for consumers.  Right now, they do not.

People tell you what the problem is and you keep saying "no, that's not the problem"

[Corporate666]

"not so cheap to run" but then fully admit that its 1/2 to 1/3 the cost.   

The point about other reasons to own an EV is spot on. 

• An EV has significantly better acceleration than an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) Vehicle. While it's easy to disparage that as unnecessary, the increased acceleration makes the car more responsive.
• It's a quieter ride.
• Regeneration significantly increases the efficiency of EVs.
• With home charging, you start each day with full range. The effort to do that is about 15 seconds plugging and unplugging.
• EVs are significantly less complex than an ICE. This should yield two benefits: lower cost manufacturing and higher reliability.  Because battery cost is dominant, the first benefit isn't obvious. The second point results in lower maintenance costs.
• No oil changes, no tune ups, no radiator antifreeze. Regen braking means brakes last a lot longer. That should be factored into per mile/km costs. All sorts of systems that simply don't exist (fuel, exhaust, radiator, oil, emission controls,...) and thus don't need repair or maintenance. 
• And best of all, you don't have to ever go to a gas station again.

So, yeah, I own an EV - Model S. If it got wrecked tomorrow, I'd get another one.

These are all the positive sides of owning an EV.  There are negatives too.

A lot of folks give the Tesla S lots of shit because it's an expensive car.  But there have been plenty of lower priced EV's on the market for years and the fact is - they just don't sell.  The Volt, the Leaf, the Bolt, and numerous others.    If you look back ~7 years ago or so, GM was predicting something like 200,000 volts sold in the USA per year within 2-3 years.  I am not sure if they ever hit that cumulatively since the car went into production.

EV's just are not selling.  It's not about price, because the deals have been fantastic - both from government money and car manufacturers losing thousands on each one sold.  It's not that the cars are junk - customer satisfaction has been high from what I have seen on most of these cars.

The problem is that most people just don't want them.  I think we are a technology revolution away from these vehicles actually selling, cuz right now they ain't.

[Corporate666]

This year was a bad hurricane year.  Be on the look out for flood-cars.  While there are certain laws/regulations, protection is not 100%.   This may not be EE, but then most likely wet/moist electronics would be a significant problem for the flood-cars.

Consumers Report and other major publications all of good articles on the issues how these dry-up clean-up lemons do get into the market and how to spot them.

I am looking to buy new off the dealer lot... my understanding is that state (maybe federal?) law dictates that any damage above $200 or so must be disclosed to the buyer prior to the sale.

But your point is well taken and sound advice for anyone looking to buy used and being tempted by low prices on late model low mileage cars.

[Someone]

A lot of folks give the Tesla S lots of shit because it's an expensive car.  But there have been plenty of lower priced EV's on the market for years and the fact is - they just don't sell.

Mysteriously all the hybrid and electric cars have been priced so that they will cost approximately the same over their life as the equivalent petrol or diesel vehicle, surprise surprise there is little incentive to go with the high upfront cost and uncertainty about lifespan and resale value (warranted or not) the same thing happened with diesel cars in Australia for a long time with their several thousand dollars of premium cost.

Should be fun on the second hand market in a few years time, you already have people heavily modifying Toyota Prius platforms since they're so cheap to obtain.