Author Topic: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?  (Read 30754 times)

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Offline nctnico

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2015, 10:34:40 pm »
I can't find any complete guide with a solution. it's all bits and pieces. this is frustrating. anno 2015 this is still so difficult to do ? every computer has a unique mac address.
No, MAC addresses are not unique! When a manufacturer gets to the end of their assigned range they start from 0 in their range (again). Usually not a problem because the chance two devices with the same MAC address ending up in the same network segment is very small. But it does happen.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2015, 10:38:49 pm »
Ok , so i looks like i need another look at vpn
People suggest routers with vpn on board. Model numbers ? I found a bunch but they are invariably machines that were reflashed an openwrt installed. Thats a no-go. I want something from a 'real' manufacturer that has not been altered by 3rd party.
Suppose we find sich a beast, and we get a static ip. What client software do we need ? And how tonset it so it does not clash with the users local lan ?

I have a laptop from work. I connect from home use Juno Pulse (juniper networks). Works like a charm, but i cant see anything on my local lan.  That is what i want to avoid. Other problem is that , once on vpn, the web access goes through the vpn. I dont want the remote users traffic to bounce through the corporate gateway.

So how is this solved ? Theres got to be a quick setup guide somewhere for such things. I just cant find it.

Your Juniper stuff is misconfigured.

I am not an expert on them, and have only used the client side (they provide the software, it's no problem, just beware you CANNOT download it without an account, so you'll have to distribute copies to users yourself), but I am presently connected to a Sonicwall provided VPN. My web-bound traffic does not pass through it, I am fully able to access all my local shares, and I have full access to the remote network as well.
Using a VPN that way needs careful routing of IP traffic and configuring a smart DNS server on the other side of the VPN to tell where certain network traffic should go. Windows is pretty poor at routing IP so using a VPN is more or less like unplugging the local network.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2015, 10:41:39 pm »
Using a VPN that way needs careful routing of IP traffic and configuring a smart DNS server on the other side of the VPN to tell where certain network traffic should go. Windows is pretty poor at routing IP so using a VPN is more or less like unplugging the local network.

No, it doesn't need a smart DNS server, it just needs fundamental networking knowledge. Seriously, it's not hard, and even Winblows can grok the difference between two subnets.
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2015, 04:19:24 am »
Install this and be done with it you can use webdav to connect to it and that is built into windows just map a drive and put in the http address. Just needs a basic lamp stack (linux webserver) to work  nearly any webhosting provider can run owncloud.

https://owncloud.com/
And there is a open version too so you can be cheap if you need to.

And it has a nice easy gui so you can download files in a pinch if needed as if it was dropbox/googledrive etc.

See the windows gui section:
https://doc.owncloud.org/server/6.0/user_manual/files/files.html

and the permissions for sharing between users.
https://forum.owncloud.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10961
https://doc.owncloud.org/server/6.0/admin_manual/sharing_api/index.html

we dont have servers. we dont have linux we dont want any of that. what we have is a NAS. plain and simple.
Dropbox is also a no-go. we don;t want our files hosted by a 3r party.

So to reiterate : here is what we want

somewhere in the world there is a building with an internet access and a local lan. inside this lan there are corporate provided computers and a NAS.
when working in the building every computer sees the NAS and the printers and the internet.
the corporate machines do NOT store any data locally. everyone has a share on the NAS and all is saved there. there are personal folders, project folders, SVN folders yadda yadda blabla. all is well.

when people go home and are on their network with their printers and doodads they need a way to connect to this NAS box so they can get to their own files , the project files they work on etc. they don't need to see the remote printers, they don't need to see the remote computers. only this NAS drive should be visible with the same permissions as if they were working in the building.

so far i understand this can be done using a VPN router. my experience with VPN is that, once the tunnel goes open you lose access to the local stuff. so if people open a web browser at home, that goes through the tunnel , and uses the internet access of the remote site.  we don't want that. we also don't want that people can't use their local printer. So far i understood this can be solved by making sure the individual clusters of networks have their own subnet. that is impractical. everyone uses 192.168.1.x at home , asking every of our users to alter that is intrusive. so we don't want that.

in short:
no servers
no file replication
no loss of functionality
all we need is a way to map a remote share , through the internet, as a drive letter, over a secure connection. pretty simple .. no ?

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Offline Psi

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2015, 06:22:14 am »
Have you had a look at the upmarket drayteck routers
I seem to remember some accepting a USB HDD and doing windows file sharing with settable users and permissions
They can do site-site VPNs too. Not sure how many sites they can link at once  but it might be worth a call to find out what they can offer

I wouldn't recommend their cheap routers but they do some good business ones.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 06:25:09 am by Psi »
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2015, 07:27:53 am »
we dont have servers. we dont have linux we dont want any of that. what we have is a NAS. plain and simple.

Every solution that is simple:

-is simple because it is very limited and dedicated. Does X and Y, will never do Z. Throw it away if you want Z. A bycicle is useless if you want a boat.
-is simple because the very complex system is designed in a way that it leads to a limited set of chosen operating modes. I just want warm water. Don't care about your pumps, filtering, boiler, fuses, tubes, distribution. Just, one day, don't expect milk or hot air.

It looks like the way you want to go is a combination of different existing, engineered solutions. They all have +20 limitations and exceptions.
If you combine 5 devices (nas, router, pc, vpn, printer) what's it again in combinations and permutations? Something like a rise of propability of 5^20 that you run into a combination of those initially unimportant uncompatibilities and exceptions.

Mounting as a drive letter is simple for the user, but behind it, there's a very complex system running, with a lot connected to it. You know this. A local network drive letter is already a stange but useful expansion to the initial use of it. Don't try to push it too far. Don't expect to not run into a set of new problems.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2015, 12:13:51 pm »
so far i understand this can be done using a VPN router. my experience with VPN is that, once the tunnel goes open you lose access to the local stuff. so if people open a web browser at home, that goes through the tunnel , and uses the internet access of the remote site.  we don't want that. we also don't want that people can't use their local printer. So far i understood this can be solved by making sure the individual clusters of networks have their own subnet. that is impractical. everyone uses 192.168.1.x at home , asking every of our users to alter that is intrusive. so we don't want that.

This can be solved by correct routing setup. Users don't need to alter a thing at home. There's only a potential problem if you choose to use the same IP range at the office as $USER_LOCATION (home, other place of work, sat in a coffee shop..). This can be fairly easily avoided by choosing an uncommon range. 172.27.42.0/24 is unlikely to be encountered in practice.. You've also got the whole range of 10.0.0.0/8 to choose from, which gives you quite a few chances..
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 12:17:57 pm by Monkeh »
 

Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2015, 01:49:05 pm »
Aha, i misunderstood. So only the 'corporate network' needs a weird subnet. I can live with that.

Some of you probably are wondering why i am so 'difficult' : i don't want our users to have to make any changes to their systems. The reason : because they will ask how, and i am not an IT guru. I am not willing to offer that support. 

So it really has to be made as simple as possible, both for the user and for me (corporate).

Hence : i buy two or three NAS boxes i already have experience with. These will mirror each other for redundancy. These machines already do file journaling so i can go back in time (backup). Number three sits in a geographically different location so if the building burns down we got a spare.
We dont produce lots of 'critical' data. A few hundred megabyte. Each nas has four drives of 3 tera each. That's lots of journaling ...

That system works. Has been working for a long time. Production data is handled like the above. Users homefolders are not journaled and are size limited.

We have been using google drive , github and some other online things. Some of that will remain but we want to kick google drive. That thing is a royal pain in the wahoonie. It alters file extentions , thinks schdoc files are word documents and other annoyances.

The request is, for people that want to work from home , or remote , that they can connect to the corp network (in this case : the NAS ) without disturbing their setup.

In the future , as we grow, we may seek a dedicated IT solution. Right now, we cant afford even a person that spends 50% of his time on that. We can afford to buy 2K hardware and software to solve this problem 'temporarily' (read : until we are larger and can implement our own server and dedicated IT guru. )

Another solution could be to go to weirsdstuff warehouse and buy a couple of used servers. They sell those for like 200$ dual xeons with four drive bays (blades), but i fear that will take a lot of my time to learn how to do that and i dont really have time nor interest in that. Neither do the other guys.

So there : that's the 'why' of what i am trying to do.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2015, 01:59:11 pm »
I would strongly suggest getting in touch with Sonicwall, Mikrotik, Sophos, or the like, and discussing your requirements. It will be easier for you and you'll get support.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2015, 02:13:50 pm »
*cough*

How about ExpanDrive:
http://www.expandrive.com/

It supports a lot of cloud services that you don't need (can just be ignored), but one thing it can do is connect to a server via SSH (SFTP) and map it to a drive letter.  I just tried it out on my Win 7 VM at work and was able to map my home directory on my Linux server at home to a "Z:" drive within about 10 seconds.

I'm sure your NAS box supports SSH/SFTP connections?  Just forward the necessary port (22 if default, or pick a custom one if you want) to the NAS and you're done.

Download the free 7 day trial, see if it works for you.  If not, it would help to know why, because it seems like it offers exactly what you're looking for.
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2015, 03:02:21 pm »
OpenVPN also works on M$

/Bingo
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2015, 03:03:25 pm »
OpenVPN also works on M$

/Bingo

That requires someone to sit down and learn how to use it..
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2015, 02:50:44 pm »
*cough*

How about ExpanDrive:
http://www.expandrive.com/

It supports a lot of cloud services that you don't need (can just be ignored), but one thing it can do is connect to a server via SSH (SFTP) and map it to a drive letter.  I just tried it out on my Win 7 VM at work and was able to map my home directory on my Linux server at home to a "Z:" drive within about 10 seconds.

I'm sure your NAS box supports SSH/SFTP connections?  Just forward the necessary port (22 if default, or pick a custom one if you want) to the NAS and you're done.

Download the free 7 day trial, see if it works for you.  If not, it would help to know why, because it seems like it offers exactly what you're looking for.
This sounds exactly like what Fuse is doing under Linux: Map a remote disk on a local mountpoint. All in all it sounds like it is worth a try for FE.
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Offline matts-uk

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2015, 11:02:11 am »
Aha, i misunderstood. So only the 'corporate network' needs a weird subnet. I can live with that.
There are different flavours of VPN, with different protocols, suited to different scenarios. 

The corporates prefer the 'mandatory' protocols which were designed for bridging LAN 2 LAN. - Partly because they are more secure, partly because of Cisco's marketing (in my opinion).  Those protocols (IPSec, L2TP) are embedded at Layer 3 and require a good understanding of L3 routing to set up.  There is nothing weird about it but you do need to understand how L3 routing works.  Typically, the more problematic area is the encryption negotiation.

Smaller businesses are usually willing to compromise security for ease of use.  In this case, an 'ad-hoc' point to point protocol may be a more appropriate choice (PPTP).  The client end appears similar to a modem connection, and is no more difficult to configure.  You still need to know how a network, works, to set up the server end.  There is a perfectly good PPTP client included with most versions of Windows since Win98/NT4 - It may be all versions but those pesky 'Home' flavours sometimes catch me out.  OSX has it's own native PPTP client and of course you can download a package for every flavour of Nix I have come across.

Quote
Some of you probably are wondering why i am so 'difficult' : i don't want our users to have to make any changes to their systems. The reason : because they will ask how, and i am not an IT guru. I am not willing to offer that support.

So it really has to be made as simple as possible, both for the user and for me (corporate).
I am not sure about difficult but you are making a meal of it, in my opinion.  What you are trying to achieve is specific, more than it is difficult.

I have set up PPTP VPNs for dozens of different clients.  The first one ~1998, was a pretty steep learning curve but had I not negotiated it, I would never have reached the objective.  Such is par for the course with network solutions.  Connecting a billion computers, spread across the planet, using protocols developed 40 years ago, is not exactly simple. You need to understand what protocols do what, how they work, how they fit together, the choices you must make or, it just don't work (!)

The client end of a VPN can be made simple to use - A few clicks, in the right order, written on a couple sheets of A4 with some screen shots.  The connection can be made completely transparent but that takes a lot more effort, as automation scripts which match the specific network infrastructure, need to be written and tested.

At the server end you need a number of different infrastructure components to all be working together.  If any one component is missing, wrongly configured or downright faulty, then no, it won't behave in the seamless way you want.

Quote
In the future , as we grow, we may seek a dedicated IT solution. Right now, we cant afford even a person that spends 50% of his time on that.
50%, LOL.  I provide '3rd line' server and network assistance to over a dozen small businesses.  My contract cost is based on having to assist for one hour, per server, per month.  Which still leaves me enough time to derive a decent income from project work.  To be fair, keeping the intervention time down is based on getting the server configuration 'right' and avoiding unnecessary or unreliable features.

Quote
We can afford to buy 2K hardware and software to solve this problem 'temporarily' (read : until we are larger and can implement our own server and dedicated IT guru. )
You should not need to spend 2K.  You do need a bit of expertise.

Quote
Another solution could be to go to weirsdstuff warehouse and buy a couple of used servers.
Stop thinking of servers as being huge, multi-processor, multi-terrabyte, do it all boxes.  You are not trying to build a data-centre like Google.

A NAS is a server.  Your workstation is a server.  My Raspberry Pi is a server.  My router is a server.  They all have enough grunt to provide a VPN for a small business.   Essentially, what you need for a seamless VPN is; a VPN endpoint, IP address distribution, split horizon name resolution and an authentication scheme.  The amount of disk space you need is trivial and the CPU will go no faster than the upload bandwidth you have available.

By far the easiest and quickest solution is a Windows 2003 Server.  Everything you need to configure, is in the box, is well tested, well documented, with a decent management GUI.  You also get Remote Desktop, so you can manage remotely.  As most of the clients are Windows, you avoid the risk of inter-op issues, which can be the bane of VPN solutions.  Later versions of Windows server add a bunch of unnecessary complication which get in the way.

Another of my preferred solutions are the Intel based, business class, Synology NAS boxes (like the 713+ and 1513+).  Synology are slightly ahead of QNAP on the GUI front (in my experience).  Importantly, some of the components you need for a seamless VPN, can only be configured on the QNAP by editing conf files by hand.  NAS box VPN solutions fall down on ease of use, compared to a Win2K3 server, as the components are not so well integrated.

Draytek 8000 series routers have always been strong in the low cost VPN endpoint department.  Draytek are a little bit like the Rigol of routers, you get a stupid amount of features for the money.  However, similar to Rigol, firmware is poorly documented and lacks regression testing between versions - Draytek refer to it as 'dynamic.'  The 8000s were lacking the split horizon DNS support needed for a seamless VPN but it got added in the last firmware release.  The Draytek may be the hardest to get working, due to the dire documentation and needing services which are not in the box.

As you are already invested into a NAS.  If you can find a used copy of Win2K3 server and a decent workstation for a few hundred bucks, that's what I would do.  Use Win2K3 to run the PPTP endpoint and the network infrastructure services, while your NAS continues to look after the file sharing.  For authentication, Active Directory can provide a single sign on, which your NAS should be able to plug into.

Otherwise, the Draytek but you will still need a DNS server for the private side of the split horizon and will probably end up with a separate set of user accounts.  The 8000 series are supposed to support plugging into an LDAP directory but it's one of those features I have yet to see working reliably.

Quote
So there : that's the 'why' of what i am trying to do.
Say you get it working.  Have you ever experienced using a mapped drive across a VPN?  At the protocol level, file sharing is nothing like a database transaction.  I could tell you why that is but this post is long enough.

In simple words.  Samba/WFS across a VPN, is typically a ponderously slow user experience.  I will put up with it, as not driving hundreds of miles in the car is key to my business model.  Many home workers find it too frustrating to work with routinely.  Hence the raft of investment into file sync and remote desktop solutions.

SSHFS, (Fuse etc) is even slower and less reliable.

Finally, keep in mind internet connections typically have less upload bandwidth than download bandwidth.  Home workers, with 80Mbps of download fibre, dedicated to just their use, often set their expectations accordingly.  If you only have 40Mbps of upload, you may struggle to meet one of those users expectations, let alone five connected concurrently.
 

Offline TopLoser

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #89 on: May 05, 2015, 11:31:21 pm »
Seagate NAS with SDrive software?

http://www.seagate.com/gb/en/tech-insights/remote-access-with-sdrive-master-ti/

Gives you drive letter access to shared remote files.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 11:33:29 pm by TopLoser »
 

Offline Zucca

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2015, 12:52:03 pm »
FreeNAS

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/set-freenas-server-access-files/
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/759064-how-to-setup-freenas-to-acess-files-using-internet/

then in the Win boxes users use something like:

Code: [Select]
ftp://myserver.homeip.net:88
to connect to the remote NAS... you can use it even in the open file menu of your ECAD (well... I hope since it works with Office for example, see here)

no the best solution for several reasons... but it should do the job...
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Offline free_electronTopic starter

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Re: remote fileserver mountable as filesystem. how ?
« Reply #91 on: May 07, 2015, 12:37:41 am »
so here is how i solved the problem.

i had a Cisco WRVS4400N router with VPN on board laying around. set that up. installed cisco vpn software onthe laptops and done.

only problem : vpn is slow on that router. and only 5 users.

so i;m probably going to upgrade the router to a Nighthawk. Install OpenVPN on the remote machines and done.


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