The Geek Group & Chris Boden: Here's what I know.

[milktoast]

To preface, I found a few threads about TGG when I was searching for info on pumping station one and other hackerspaces. Since I like to see whats new with TGG in hopes they're turning it around, I ended up here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/opinions-about-'the-geek-group'-on-youtube/  reading the posts about their Youtube videos. Since i'm late for the show, but I have information about the topic I thought I'd start a new topic.
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So here's what I know.

I was around for the transition of TGG moving into Grand Rapids and prepping the space. I showed up a few times to help out then volunteered for about 4 days straight at an hour each way. I didn't have the time commitment of a lot of members, but I am a young person absolutely in love with the maker/hackerspace scene and really wanted to get involved with a group.

A lot of us were, in fact the very thin guy that was helping me haul around transformers was on summer vacation and had saved a few thousand dollars so he could fly to the US from Belgium and volunteer moving stuff. That's how important we thought it was.

I wont talk about any of the work that me and the other volunteers were doing that was probably illegal. We were building something cool, and we felt good about it. I don't believe you can fault nonprofits too much for doing what they can with what they have, so if that's flying around the rumor mill, I think its defensible from our perspective.

Here's my first Boden story: After about 4 hours hauling transformers around downstairs, me and a skinny, incredibly nice kid from Belgium? (Olivar?) we head upstairs and Boden came over to thank us. He went to give us a few dollars (which was nice, and we hadn't expected anything) Pulled out his wallet and said "Oh fuck, I'm as broke as a Nigger" then gave us three dollars to split.

That was the first time I really talked to him and the fact that he acted like that so casually to people who he had just met (we had met before, but he didn't remembered me) threw up some flags since we're in the rough approximation of a school.

After that I started watching him a little more. I noticed the gun he keeps strapped to his side (Michigan is an open carry state). I saw him cozying up with student interns (Over 18). I started hearing people grumbling about how donation money was going into his pocket (This was from members, and I didn't stick around long enough to see that for myself). And seeing him swearing at volunteers.

Any of these things on their own are fine. Maybe having a gun isn't bad. Maybe he has a salaried position, since he does spend a lot of time there. Maybe she was smart enough to make her own choices. Maybe putting together a hackerspace on a tight budget with volunteer help is stressful.

But you keep adding it up over the limited time that I was there and it starts painting a pretty unflattering picture at an abnormal velocity.

After I came back to Kalamazoo I asked around, tone neutral if anyone had heard of TGG. If the answer was yes, the next thing that came out of there mouth was always something about what "Duck" (Boden) had done, about not paying their taxes, or buying groceries with donation money or about being an egomaniac, or his temper. At best I heard ex members who talked about their "Love hate relationship" with him.

Most recently, TGG came up and a friend of mine who was involved mentioned how duck would "fly off with almost no provocation and start waving his gun around". I had a hard time believing it, so I ask who he heard it from. His response? ; "I saw him do it. A few times".

It takes me a minute to absorb the idea that a man in charge of an educational environment has the habit of losing his temper and swinging a gun around. No one will deny that he's got a gun and few will deny his temper. That on its own is pretty troubling

What about the other members? Paul Kidwell is kinda gruff, but he was never anything but polite to me. Seemed fatherly and smart as all hell. I didn't talk to Lis Bokt very much, but she seemed to be pretty competent at what she did. Captain Badass, the operations guy (Nickname; I think his name was Dave) was always enormously kind to me, even when I saw him years apart.

And that's the thing that really kills me. The people that buy into it and believe in the mission. Dave was always talking about how close they were to opening to the public and how it was always around the corner for over a year. He really bought into all the shit Boden was spewing. He told me how he was going to get hired on. I saw that among a lot of the members.

This is someone who was living off from virtually nothing, and totally eating up the dream that Boden was selling. And that's how I think Boden kept everyone on hook. He really sold the dream. And he's fucking good at it.

I remember the first time I went there I went to Boden and said I'd like to volunteer (probably 3+ years ago), and he asked what I was good at. I said I'm "alright" with computers.

His response? : We'll make you great.

That's the kind of shit that really sticks with you when you're young looking for something to be a part of.

And I believed it. That's why I'd drive 2 hours a day to go and move shit for as long as I could afford it. I bought it.
And that is what pisses me off, because looking back now, I think its a total crock.

I think TGG is stuck, because the other board members cant do much without him. The execs are a closed group and they don't seem to have the personalities to lead, so they're doing the best with what they have and unfortunately that's Boden.

In the old thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/opinions-about-'the-geek-group'-on-youtube/msg300746/#msg300746 in Reply #144 he went on a microtangent about how the only people who spoke out were going to be ex members who were kicked out.

Well, that's wrong. I showed up as an interested curious person excited to have access (And to build!) the kind of educational space I always wanted to have growing up.

And in the end it just sort of turns my stomach that people are buying in to his puppetry and donating absurd amounts of money to this, because even in an incredible space and talented membership and a tremendous capacity to do good, he's earned a really shitty reputation and he's still the one running the show in a city, state, and nation which really need what TGG could provide

In the few years I've been showing up and asking, tone neutral, about TGG, never once has anyone said anything positive to me about Boden.

Not one single thing

I left out a fair bit and I'm sorry if I got any names wrong. Feel free to ask questions or add your own stories. I'm sure others have stories that go one direction or the other. I'd really like to know if its been cleaned up, because it doesn't much look like it has.

[miguelvp]

I really don't even know who this fellow is and never heard of TGG. Today is really my first time I've heard about them and only because you posted 3 posts about it and I read the forum by posts unread. I might have skipped the other threads completely, as sometimes I just click on a thread and just go right back because it's not interesting.

I heard about Chaos Computer Club which is the first hackerspace and I've been watching their videos for many years, although I never have been able to make it to their conferences.

I don't think CCC requires a Non-Disclosure or Non-Compete agreements. I think that is just funny that a hackerspace actually does that. Sure there are HackerSpace secrets that need to be guarded or others will imitate us and ... meh... it goes against the whole mentality. Maybe they should name themselves the OneOfUsSpace. Limiting knowledge goes agains all the HackerSpaces I've seen.

Specially since Non-Competes are not enforceable, it's like a plumbing company requiring their employees to sign a non compete for 3 years after they leave.

If you leave us, you can't do your hobby for 3 years!!!!! ridiculous, and no judge will enforce that.

As for TGG videos, I watch a couple today, but they are very random so no my thing, but it's interesting never the less.

Politics of hackerspaces is new to me, maybe that's the angle to grow a Space... by controversy!, Hey, it works!, it's been proven by many.

My advice to the OP, move on, don't loose any sleep, not worth it. Everyone is right and wrong at the same time and nothing good will come out of this approach.

[Psi]

Chris would be the first to admit that he is a bit of an asshole.  In fact he would probably correct that by removing the words "a bit"

However, i just can't see any possible way to view TGG as a whole in a bad light.
I think what some people view as "bad" is just the side effect of having an organisation made of mostly introverts/geeks.
People there always say what they mean, there's none of the expected social conventions you would get in a typical organisation. People view that quite negatively sometimes.

A month or two back a youtube viewer took offense to how one of the female staff members was talked to and wrote a letter saying how it was totally inappropriate. I highly urge you do go watch the video where the incident occurred and then view the response video that TGG staff made.
It's a good example of what makes TGG different to other companies and how easy it is for people to take offence to that approach.

It happens right at the end but start watching at ~27min



Response video

[EEVblog]

In the few years I've been showing up and asking, tone neutral, about TGG, never once has anyone said anything positive to me about Boden.
Not one single thing

I don't know Chris at all, but there are at least two things positive any critic must admit:
a) He built a community maker space
b) He produces content

That's already vastly more than most people do.

[Macbeth]

Thanks Milktoast, I had never heard of TGG & Chris Boden before. I watched a vid of him shifting heavy duty transformers and stuff with a pick up truck. Yeah, I did notice the girls didn't get much to do and looked a bit awkward, though many of the blokes were in the same boat. At least that blonde Sheila when she did some labour shown the top of her arse-crack now and then. Now that is the definition of a hard worker.

Now if I was making a Discovery production, I would get all those bints dolled up to the nines and in front of the camera all the time. It seems to me that this TGG just shows it like it is, and perhaps Mr Boden is a bit of a performer on camera, much like Dave, but has a production team behind him as well.

I will have to watch some more. Thanks for bringing TGG to my attention, looks pretty cool! Bookmarked!

Looking at the vid posted by Psi, it does appear he is an irritating cunt that likes to do a few lines of Charlie if you see what I mean. The nose wipes are a giveaway. I used to work for a guy like that, he was the service manager, but would every now and again just go back to the bench and stack 40 VCR's and fix them in 5 minutes each. An amazing feat to behold. He also had two separate wives and 15 children. I also remember as an 18 year old apprentice being shown his secret negatives he kept in the van - he liked to pay the Runcorn MILFs he met in the local pub £20 for his "amateur photography" sessions that he convinced his wives was a great new hobby getting an SLR etc. Hahaha. I wonder if he is still alive now? He was soooo hyper! Must have burn't himself out. 

ETA: Despite his, ahem, bohemian take on life - He was a fucking brilliant service engineer. I learned more of that bloke in a month than I did in 2 years of college. I just had to put up with his banter and other shit. But I would give it back. Why do workplaces have to be sterile SJW politically correct shit holes?

[Phaedrus]

Just a note regarding the "waving his gun around" bit, the US may be fairly lax on firearm regulation, particularly states like Michigan, but brandishing a firearm is generally a felony offense. If this is something he does often, then it should be recorded and reported to the police.

Note that "brandishing" specifically refers to using the gun to make a direct or implied threat, and would not necessarily include things like taking it out to show someone who asked to see it, though that may also be illegal depending on jurisdiction. It's also considered poor tact to do so in public regardless.

There are few things I hate more than irresponsible gun owners.

[milktoast]

I wrote this because I've heard people asking about it locally, and apparently there's interest online too.

They're allowed to have whatever kind of culture they want, but donors and potential members should know what they're advocating.

I've been involved with other groups for a while now, and yeah hackers can have strong personalities. But nothing compared to the behavior I heard about and saw at TGG, specifically related to Boden.

I just want people to know what they're supporting by offering my personal experience which contrasts the incomplete picture TGG is displaying.

[Rasz]

mmm Boden, classy as always



not contributing = not making enough direct $$ donations

he still treats TGG as his personal cult

[miguelvp]

Wow, people still using IRC and they still get upset about channel control?
Now someone will tell me that usenet is still a thing as well and all the advertising bots are gone.

[dannyf]

The people that buy into it and believe in the mission.

I think that's the root cause of many of your problems. You are good only if you are objective. Your objectivity cannot be built on "believes", without you go crazy.

A cult exists not because of the cult leader but the followers.

[Psi]

Good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things.
It's always best to judge people on what they have done rather than who they are.

Being quite rough around the edges doesn't make someone a bad person.

If someone yells at people and runs around acting like an arsehole but also does a ton of good stuff for the community then its best to just accept them as who they are. There's no point complaining or trying to change them. Either ignore them or give them as good as you get

[Stonent]

Pretty much all I've seen of the Geek Group is the video they had on using an arduino to count from a geiger counter, but I came across Chris's channel and found it kind of weird.  He did seem a bit odd.
He seemed like a goof ball in the geiger counter video, but seemed a bit controlling in the other videos.