Author Topic: The Keysight Logo is NOT a thing (Read 11698 times)

EEVblog · « **on:** April 19, 2018, 07:02:09 am »

We have come to the conclusion that the Keysight waveform logo is NOT a thing.
Doesn't even have split rotational symmetry.

G7PSK · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:10:34 am »

What you get from a cheap Chinese amplifier or signal generator.

llkiwi2006 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:21:58 am »

Not symmetric indeed (picture attached for those having trouble seeing it like me)

P.S. fun fact: keysight provides their logo nicely as a svg file on their website

GerryBags · « **Reply #3 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:26:00 am »

That's what happens when the big boys bring in the consultants (a word that is sometimes shortened by removing the 'sultant' bit to reveal an inner truth

). I bet the board then voted on it. It totally smacks of being designed by committee in order to cause absolutely no offence to anyone in the company's international markets. They might as well as gone from from Agilent to being Anodyne Systems Inc.

bd139 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:34:30 am »

You do realise that now when I stare at my DMM the lack of symmetry is going to poke me in the eye?

Going to have to buy another DMM now (poor excuse)

EEVblog · « **Reply #5 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:53:30 am »

Quote from: GerryBags on April 19, 2018, 08:26:00 am

That's what happens when the big boys bring in the consultants (a word that is sometimes shortened by removing the 'sultant' bit to reveal an inner truth ). I bet the board then voted on it. It totally smacks of being designed by committee in order to cause absolutely no offence to anyone in the company's international markets. They might as well as gone from from Agilent to being Anodyne Systems Inc.

I can picture the presentation from the consultant:
"The logo embodies synergy between the HP legacy and the new embodiment of the Keysight spirit and the relationship with their customers through a retro symbolic means."

gertux · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:03:50 am »

Where does this discussion originate ?

Is it an OCD sensitive issue maybe ?

D3f1ant · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:23:16 am »

Why do I feel this is a great topic

Circlotron · « **Reply #8 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:26:27 am »

It's a graph of the fortunes of the company under successive CEOs.

Electro Detective · « **Reply #9 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:45:17 am »

Quote from: bd139 on April 19, 2018, 08:34:30 am

You do realise that now when I stare at my DMM the lack of symmetry is going to poke me in the eye?

Going to have to buy another DMM now (poor excuse)

Flog it now ..while the display is ~~still~~ bright and crisp

bd139 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:48:09 am »

Dodged that bullet

It's a LCD jobby

Mr. Scram · « **Reply #11 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:57:47 am »

Engineers talking about logo design. This should be good.

GerryBags · « **Reply #12 on:** April 19, 2018, 10:21:22 am »

Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 19, 2018, 09:57:47 am

Engineers talking about logo design. This should be good.

If more engineers could stomach working in marketing departments I think it would be a great thing. I was a graphic designer for many years but got thoroughly sick of the whole marketing (read: lying for money) thing.

I do think it's odd that the HP name went with the computing side of the business when it split, rather than the test-gear side. I would have thought the newer technology would have fared better with a name change, but seeing as they seem to be doing/have done well enough as Agilent or Keysight. It still just smacks of marketing wank.

HighVoltage · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2018, 10:28:55 am »

Quote from: GerryBags on April 19, 2018, 10:21:22 am

I was a graphic designer for many years but got thoroughly sick of the whole marketing (read: lying for money) thing.

What do you mean?
They most likely hired an "EXPERT" and told him what to do:

If you have not seen this, it is hilarious and sad.
As an engineer, we probably have all been in this situation

Zero999 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 19, 2018, 12:17:42 pm »

Am I the only person here who doesn't care?

It's not a bad logo, compared to other ones I've seen. It might not be the best, but it isn't the shittiest.

SparkyFX · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2018, 01:06:44 pm »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 19, 2018, 07:02:09 am

Doesn't even have split rotational symmetry.

Making it asymetric and non repetitive was probably the only way they could work around the creation of conspiracy theories and maybe even improve the legal situation when it comes to counterfeit or copyright :-) Consider the logo being symetric and repetitive, then it would be harder to "protect", legally - without knowing too much about it. It is at least harder to explain why something is an exact copy.

The problem with the topic is.... only Keysight knows what that logo should express or should not express.

station240 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2018, 01:17:09 pm »

Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.

Brumby · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2018, 01:25:32 pm »

Quote from: station240 on April 19, 2018, 01:17:09 pm

Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.

I like that ... and it's the sort of thing I could see somebody doing as a quick graphic tweak.

schmitt trigger · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2018, 01:35:37 pm »

I would like to see an FFT performed on that waveform.

Tomorokoshi · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2018, 04:57:06 pm »

Quote from: station240 on April 19, 2018, 01:17:09 pm

Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.

Even better, it's the envelope of the output of an extremely complex non-cyclic AM modulated arbitrary signal generator for the purposes of EMC testing.

bd139 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2018, 05:07:27 pm »

Or a DS1022Z with a particularly buggy firmware release.

Mr. Scram · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2018, 05:15:13 pm »

Quote from: SparkyFX on April 19, 2018, 01:06:44 pm

Making it asymetric and non repetitive was probably the only way they could work around the creation of conspiracy theories and maybe even improve the legal situation when it comes to counterfeit or copyright :-) Consider the logo being symetric and repetitive, then it would be harder to "protect", legally - without knowing too much about it. It is at least harder to explain why something is an exact copy.

The problem with the topic is.... only Keysight knows what that logo should express or should not express.

I'm fairly sure it's an artistic choice. It's obviously supposed to relate to signals, but without it being a literal representation of a single specific signal. It basically represents the concept of a signal but not a literal signal. The lack of symmetry seems to be introduced to make it a bit more interesting to look at. Symmetry tends to be boring, especially when it's a fairly simple graphic already.

You may be right about it being harder to protect a more regular signal, though.

TheSteve · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2018, 05:43:41 pm »

Maybe the marketing team was having a go at predistortion.

nctnico · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2018, 06:17:57 pm »

Quote from: EEVblog on April 19, 2018, 07:02:09 am

We have come to the conclusion that the Keysight waveform logo is NOT a thing.

I'm wondering how the EEVblog crew came to that conclusion:

bitwelder · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2018, 07:59:27 pm »

Quote from: bd139 on April 19, 2018, 08:34:30 am

You do realise that now when I stare at my DMM the lack of symmetry is going to poke me in the eye?

Going to have to buy another DMM now (poor excuse)

You just need to find an Agilent sticker and rebadge your gear

bd139 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:01:01 pm »

Agilent was a much classier name and logo.

CopperCone · « **Reply #26 on:** April 19, 2018, 08:03:52 pm »

that looks like AM modulation on a chinese carrier

can someone do a FFT?

Circlotron · « **Reply #27 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:41:57 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Scram on April 19, 2018, 09:57:47 am

Engineers talking about logo design. This should be good.

schmitt trigger · « **Reply #28 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:49:50 pm »

Anyone remember Lucent's logo? The coffee cup stain?

floobydust · « **Reply #29 on:** April 19, 2018, 09:56:08 pm »

FM the company name and logo
AM the product prices
SSB the firmware bugs

The logo is accurate.

CopperCone · « **Reply #30 on:** April 19, 2018, 10:20:48 pm »

i think lucent logo is some kinda chaotic oscillator in 2 axis

KE5FX · « **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2018, 10:22:43 pm »

Quote from: CopperCone on April 19, 2018, 08:03:52 pm

that looks like AM modulation on a chinese carrier

can someone do a FFT?

Just eyeballing it, I'm guessing it would look like a raised middle finger. Hopefully aimed at the competition and not the customers.

It's unquestionably a poor logo, but the people and the products are what's important, and they're doing fine there from what I can see.

It's also surprising how well logos can hold up over time. Nobody was especially complimentary of the Agilent logo when they announced it, or of the name for that matter. But the Agilent logo looks good now for a few reasons. One, because the new logo is worse. Two, because it wasn't really that bad in the first place. Three, because the company itself was, and is, still H-P under the hood.

The Lucent logo, on the other hand... wow. There is, and was, no possibility of redemption for that one.

CopperCone · « **Reply #32 on:** April 19, 2018, 10:25:45 pm »

sure its not one of these?

Neomys Sapiens · « **Reply #33 on:** April 19, 2018, 10:50:55 pm »

A related challenge:
when you take a look at the TEA thread, you'll see my new generator. Can anyone come up with the polynomial, which makes it do the Keysight logo?

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #34 on:** April 20, 2018, 06:46:12 am »

Quote from: Hero999 on April 19, 2018, 12:17:42 pm

Am I the only person here who doesn't care?
It's not a bad logo, compared to other ones I've seen. It might not be the best, but it isn't the shittiest.

you are not alone... i bet nobody's dick and balls is symmetric, natures are mostly non symmetric...

Distelzombie · « **Reply #35 on:** April 20, 2018, 07:39:17 am »

Quote from: Mechatrommer on April 20, 2018, 06:46:12 am

Quote from: Hero999 on April 19, 2018, 12:17:42 pm
Am I the only person here who doesn't care?
It's not a bad logo, compared to other ones I've seen. It might not be the best, but it isn't the shittiest.
you are not alone... i bet nobody's dick and balls is symmetric, natures are mostly non symmetric...

Yeeeaaaa, but, on the other hand it's not. I mean all life is mostly symmetric. Look at you. You could've even be born with malformations that look like a seem hasn't fully closed. It's like we're two halves that stick together. By magic. *rainbow appears*

On Daves twitter someone showed that his scope can create the Keysight Logo as a waveform demo. Try ask him?

Circlotron · « **Reply #36 on:** April 20, 2018, 10:24:24 am »

Quote from: Distelzombie on April 20, 2018, 07:39:17 am

I mean all life is mostly symmetric.

One notable exception - human proteins are exclusively built from left handed amino acids.
https://www.chirality.org/

metrologist · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2018, 03:17:27 pm »

I thought the golden ratio was everywhere in nature...

Mr. Scram · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2018, 03:21:07 pm »

Quote from: metrologist on April 20, 2018, 03:17:27 pm

I thought the golden ratio was everywhere in nature...

In no small part due to it being stuck on everything, even if there's barely a fit. It's a prime example of cognitive bias.

metrologist · « **Reply #39 on:** April 20, 2018, 04:08:35 pm »

Ha, but the point of all this is to catalyze an emotional response. I initially liked the KS logo for it's simple design and relevancy to their products and market. Of course it is likely purely a graphic designer's interpretation of something real that they may have been presented, and then interpreted to achieve an emotional objective based on their training. It's along with the color of the product. Red and black are making a very bold statement thats likely to be aimed at the decision makers and not the users.

bd139 · « **Reply #40 on:** April 20, 2018, 04:14:18 pm »

Good point. If I’m honest I like the logo.

Distelzombie · « **Reply #41 on:** April 20, 2018, 04:36:42 pm »

Did you miss this?

Quote from: Distelzombie

On Daves twitter someone showed that his scope can create the Keysight Logo as a waveform demo. Try ask him?

I'll link it:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/iMozziconi/status/986866402945523712

Mozziconi (@iMozziconi)
Replying to @eevblog @Keysight

I've got a Keysight CRO, mate.
It has a "Demo signals" feature (signals are generated at the compensation output and can be captured by a probe connected to it). There are dozens of demos there and one of those signals is called "Keysight" and I've just captured it.
Here you are:

Apparently only people with US$ 21,319 oscilloscope are in on the secret to this.

metrologist · « **Reply #42 on:** April 20, 2018, 05:15:14 pm »

overlay

Distelzombie · « **Reply #43 on:** April 20, 2018, 08:42:42 pm »

It looks too close to that to be impossible.

TerraHertz · « **Reply #44 on:** April 21, 2018, 02:32:58 am »

Quote from: station240 on April 19, 2018, 01:17:09 pm

Take the bottom half of the waveform, flip it left to right.
Voila, it's an AM modulated signal.

Ha ha ha! That's very close!

Edit: Actually the original (and that scope sample signal) looks like the accumulated envelope of a 3-cycle sine chirp, with shaped envelope and gradually ramped overall amplitude and/or freq, with triggering set to DC, negative slope, small negative voltage.

And I think it's ugly.

TheSteve · « **Reply #45 on:** April 21, 2018, 02:51:20 am »

The best I can get:

jpanhalt · « **Reply #46 on:** April 21, 2018, 03:17:05 pm »

Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.

bd139 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 21, 2018, 04:14:05 pm »

Interesting find!

TerraHertz · « **Reply #48 on:** April 22, 2018, 03:36:14 am »

Quote from: jpanhalt on April 21, 2018, 03:17:05 pm

Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.

Heh. Can you find a date on that image, and is it solid?
Because that's a legal challenge to a registered design/copyright/trademark right there.
Please someone do Keysight a favor, and make them change that ugly thing.

amyk · « **Reply #49 on:** April 22, 2018, 04:46:38 am »

Quote from: jpanhalt on April 21, 2018, 03:17:05 pm

Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.

Idea? That is pretty much the logo, verbatim!

Mr. Scram · « **Reply #50 on:** April 22, 2018, 04:53:30 am »

Quote from: amyk on April 22, 2018, 04:46:38 am

Idea? That is pretty much the logo, verbatim!

Without a proper date and source causality is not readily established. I'm not sure the top part isn't modern to begin with.

Mr. Scram · « **Reply #51 on:** April 22, 2018, 04:57:17 am »

Unless I'm overlooking something in the image, it doesn't seem to be related to the logo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3176030/Evolution-Sin-City-Rare-retro-photos-reveal-Las-Vegas-transformed-one-horse-town-glitzy-City-Lights.html

TheSteve · « **Reply #52 on:** April 22, 2018, 05:15:40 am »

Quote from: jpanhalt on April 21, 2018, 03:17:05 pm

Are you really sure it is not a thing? Was browsing "old pictures from Las Vegas" on a news channel and this popped up. Maybe that is where the designer got his idea.

I'd say that is simply part of a web based advertisement for Keysight

Mr. Scram · « **Reply #53 on:** April 22, 2018, 05:38:38 am »

Quote from: TheSteve on April 22, 2018, 05:15:40 am

I'd say that is simply part of a web based advertisement for Keysight

That should be so obvious it starts feeling like intentional misrepresentation.

hapax · « **Reply #54 on:** February 07, 2022, 12:49:24 pm »

Quote from: schmitt trigger on April 19, 2018, 09:49:50 pm

Anyone remember Lucent's logo? The coffee cup stain?

Actually, the Agilent and Lucent logos were made by the same PR firm (Landor). Not sure what they charged Agilent for the logo, but it seems they might have re-used a few elements from their Lucent design .....

Anthocyanina · « **Reply #55 on:** June 06, 2022, 02:01:55 am »

i tried to recreate it combining two AM signals, this was the closest i got

no keysight demo waveform on this scope

dmills · « **Reply #56 on:** June 06, 2022, 03:48:25 pm »

Quote from: GerryBags on April 19, 2018, 08:26:00 am

a word that is sometimes shortened by removing the 'sultant' bit to reveal an inner truth

You get another truth by swapping the 'u & l in that 'sultant', frequently applicable to business and marketing consluting, but I have seen it applicable in software and even design types.

pardo-bsso · « **Reply #57 on:** June 06, 2022, 07:42:59 pm »

Quote from: metrologist on April 20, 2018, 03:17:27 pm

I thought the golden ratio was everywhere in nature...

Picture taken from: https://twitter.com/tulpapilled/status/1532796580331667457
The man there is https://www.instagram.com/kapakoulak/

free_electron · « **Reply #58 on:** June 06, 2022, 07:50:28 pm »

the shape is a secret sauce so people can;t just copy and past some shape or make it with some curve drawing program. it is easy to spot fakes. like the FTIKE mulitmeters

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392611099934?hash=item5b6971f51e:g:HrQAAOSwabhUXBd6

SiliconWizard · « **Reply #59 on:** June 06, 2022, 07:58:07 pm »

Quote from: free_electron on June 06, 2022, 07:50:28 pm

the shape is a secret sauce so people can;t just copy and past some shape or make it with some curve drawing program. it is easy to spot fakes.

Yes, but this is a double-edged sword.
If you make a logo difficult to copy in subtle ways, but easy to approximate (with most people probably not noticing), then you open the possibility of having counterfeits with a purposedly inexact logo (but looking close enough for the unaware), then reaping some of the benefits of counterfeiting without being an infringement. This is a very common practise.

Bud · « **Reply #60 on:** June 10, 2022, 05:34:12 am »

Try taking FFT from the Keysight logo.
Then use an AWG to synthesize a copy.


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Author Topic: The Keysight Logo is NOT a thing (Read 11698 times)

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