Time for a new computer - what processor?

[Simon]

So my not so trusty and way too young PC seems to be slowly dying. So time for a new motherboard (the faulty bit) some RAM (upgrade to DDR4) and well processor as that will need replacing for the DDR4 RAM.

As always not being a computer buff anymore I am baffled by which processor from which all other selections will transpire.

My laptop is i7 and works great, my tablet (smaller touchscreen laptop) is an i5 and i am quite happy with it but have not tried anything too grunty on it. I type this on it as it drives a 4K screen so can't complain.

I see that as always AMD have an infinite number of models on offer and of course cost less. My current PC is an FX-4350 but I am not sure if the more expensive models are worth while as they simplf seem to be more cores not speed. I am sure video editors that every CPU is benchmarked on will love the 12 core 24 thread CPU but erm I'm not sure circuit studio will know what to do with the remaining 11 cores and 23 threads.

I want a good machine and am only really going for a PC still because separate graphics is the only way to get the real RAM and CPU performance and laptops with dedicated graphics are expensive. I have a perfectly adequate graphics card other bits.

I won't do anything too heavy  but want a fast one but multicore does not mean fast and unless they independently clock down every time one core fires up all the others will too using more power.

[Gribo]

Anything from the last 3 years will do (Core 6xxx generation and up, AMD Ryzen), max out the memory (16GB at least), get a decent SSD and you are done.

[bob225]

What is your budget ? what form factor ? eg ATX, Micro Atx

speeds have been fairly stagnant for a few years but core counts have gone up

A SSD and 64bit OS are a must these days, graphics cards are a big factor in a system too

Im still running my X99 (5820K hex core) with ddr4 and that still handles what I throw at it

[drussell]

Seriously consider one of the Ryzens.  Some of the mid range models have excellent performance and low power consumption to the point that some power supplies won't handle how little power they draw at idle.  That makes it easy to make a nice quiet machine with low operating costs with an upgrade path if you decide that you need a faster processor later.  Of course, if you need the performance, you can go straight for one of the higher-end grunty ones right now. 

FreeBSD runs great on them (though the Vega graphics in chips like the 2400G still isn't quite supported yet but you already have a graphics card, right?) and I've been able to still run Windows 7 on the chipsets I've been using, though you do have to mess with it a bit.  Most customers I have gone to running FreeBSD on the bare metal and then Windows or MacOS or whatever in a VM depending on their needs.

Definitely use an SSD if you're not already, and since modern software is bloated to the extreme and RAM is relatively inexpensive right now, don't skimp on the size of your first two DIMMs so you'll have space to upgrade later unless you go straight for the MAX that the chipset & cpu supports.

Try not to skimp on the motherboard, either.  It pays off in the long run.  I almost always use ASUS (occasionally 2nd choice is Gigabyte depending on feature set) and loved the Sabretooth line for general purpose to workstation class but they've discontinued that "line."  Just don't cheap out on the board. 

[Simon]

I would be running windows although i have to admit I'd love to leave it. The main thing tying me down at the moment is circuit studio. RAM cheap? not the last time i looked.

[Simon]

What is the difference between the Ryzen numbers ?

[Ice-Tea]

2200G: 4c/4t embedded GPU
2400G= 4c/8t embedded GPU

Ryzen '7' (2700,1800,1700) 8c/16t
Ryzen '5' (2600,1600) 6c/12t
Ryzen '5' (2500,1500,1400) 4c/8t
Ryzen '3' (2300,1300,1200) 4c/4t

1700x vs 1700 per example is just a bit higher clocked, usually can be achieved by a mild overclock yourself (but also comes with different cooler)
2700 vs 1700 per example is a generation bump with a few 100MHz higher clock, smaller process node, a few minor improvement.

[Simon]

Looks like it has to be a 7 for DDR4 support.

So what are i5's to i7's ?

[Simon]

oh and as i have a GPU already why buy a Rayzen 3 or 5 as i don't need their included GPU

[technix]

Before replacing the whole system, do you have any of the following:

* A Intel quad-core processor from within this decade, an AMD Ryzen processor or better
* At least 16GB of RAM,
* A recent mid-tier graphics card or better
* A SSD, hopefully a SSD that uses PCIe interface.

If your system is less than 5 years old, some spot upgrades like an NVMe SSD, maxing our the RAM, or a new graphics card can do wonders while not breaking the bank. Depending on the system, it can be helpful to comb eBay or AliExpress for a compatible CPU upgrade too.

Also don’t put the old parts in trash, donate it or put it in your parts bin instead. That is better for the environment, and you might find one day the parts accumulated in that bin can be put together as a potato PC for YouTube and Facebook or a basic home server running some lightweight Linux OS like xubuntu or Raspbian-x86.

[Simon]

The motherboard is fucked! if I am going to buy another motherboard i may as well get some shiny new DDR4 and a new CPU has to come with that. The CPU will also use 50% the power. As for "at least" 16GB of RAM 16GB is plenty for me.

I do so hate it when people come on like experts and recommend far more than is required for it to be brilliant. of course it will be at 200% the price!

[MrMobodies]

So what are i5's to i7's ?

What I would watch out for some of the newer boards put the tracks over the heatsink bracket hole areas and they can get crushed if they are tightened too much.

If you compare the I5's and I7's by generation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_microprocessors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors

You will see the difference in cache size.

I5 6MB L2 cache
I7 8MB L2 cache

[Simon]

Yea, AMD it is, 16MB cache 2/3 the price

[Simon]

https://www.ebuyer.com/830814-amd-ryzen-7-2700-am4-processor-with-led-wraith-spire-cooler-yd2700bbafbox

[technix]

The motherboard is fucked! if I am going to buy another motherboard i may as well get some shiny new DDR4 and a new CPU has to come with that. The CPU will also use 50% the power. As for "at least" 16GB of RAM 16GB is plenty for me.

I do so hate it when people come on like experts and recommend far more than is required for it to be brilliant. of course it will be at 200% the price!

If the motherboard died the spot upgrade method goes nowhere then. I was assuming that the machine still works.

As of now the bang for the buck looks like something like this to me:
* Ryzen 5 2nd gen
* 16GB DDR4-2666
* B350 motherboard
* RX 570 or GTX 1060 6GB graphics card
* 256GB NVMe SSD for boot drive
* 2TB spinning rust as data drive.

Since applications are getting bigger and bigger, having 16GB RAM will help a lot. At least here on my machine even 16GB barely makes it with ~30 tabs in Google Chrome and I went to 32GB RAM a yamear ago.

[Simon]

https://www.ebuyer.com/868954-exdisplay-msi-amd-x370-gaming-pro-carbon-am4-atx-motherboard-ebr2-x370-gaming-pro-carbon

[rdl]

For features with the Intels, they've been making i5 and i7 for a while so you have to go by the "generation", such as 5xxx, 4xxx, and so on. As an example, I have a ancient 3 series i5, an i5-3570K. A newer one would be i5-8600. I think DDR4 support started with 6 series maybe?

[Simon]

ok forget that motherboard, it won't support decent ram speed without overclocking.

[Mr. Scram]

Looks like it has to be a 7 for DDR4 support.

So what are i5's to i7's ?

i5 and i7 are marketing terms. Traditionally you could infer a few things from them, but since AMD got Intel in a panic they've started messing with the numbers in all kinds of ways. The terms have also been used for ages, so ageing chips go by the same name.

It's good to note that IPC is almost identical for both current generations AMD and Intel chips. Comparing clockspeeds is still not an apples to apples thing, but it's not as unreasonable as it was in the days of the FX chips. Right now the sweetspot seems to be somewhere around the Ryzen 5 or 7 series, depending on how much power you can actually use. The 5 series is a very nice and potent range for a comparatively modest budget.

[technix]

https://www.ebuyer.com/868954-exdisplay-msi-amd-x370-gaming-pro-carbon-am4-atx-motherboard-ebr2-x370-gaming-pro-carbon

X370 is overkill for a mid-tier machine, unless you overclock it.

Also usually the motherboard don’t fail that frequently. Maybe it is because me being so used to server grade gear that is designed to last for a long time, but from my experience a problematic system can often be fixed by a deep cleaning to the hardware and a fresh OS install on the software.

Speaking of, you can actually look into building your next machine using decommissioned server hardware commonly available on eBay and AliExpress for fairly low prices. The only drawback AFAIK is the power draw since they are older technology with worse energy management, but since servers are often ahead of the performance curve than consumer grade stuff older generation server grade gear often perform as good as, if not better than current generation mid-tier consumer grade stuff.

[Mr. Scram]

If the motherboard died the spot upgrade method goes nowhere then. I was assuming that the machine still works.

As of now the bang for the buck looks like something like this to me:
* Ryzen 5 2nd gen
* 16GB DDR4-2666
* B350 motherboard
* RX 570 or GTX 1060 6GB graphics card
* 256GB NVMe SSD for boot drive
* 2TB spinning rust as data drive.

Since applications are getting bigger and bigger, having 16GB RAM will help a lot. At least here on my machine even 16GB barely makes it with ~30 tabs in Google Chrome and I went to 32GB RAM a yamear ago.

If the budget's available, something like this is a very nice system without overdoing things. Just make sure to buy a proper PSU and not some cheapie.

[Simon]

well a 7 costs not a lot more as it drops the GPU I'd be paying for but not using. the £259 CPU is fine, still far cheaper than the entry level i7.

Now I just need a motherboard that does not tell lies about the RAM speed which mean the lying cunts at MSI can sod off! their motherboards can do wonderful things until you read the specs and find that the 2 low end speeds are the only real ones. Had an Asus motherboard like that once and it was a nightmare.

[Simon]

what a load of codswallop:

Supports AMD 2nd Generation Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics/ 1st Generation Ryzen™ Processors
Dual Channel Non-ECC Unbuffered DDR4, 4 DIMMs
HDMI, DVI-D Ports for Multiple Display
Integrated I/O Shield of Ultra Durable™ Design
Dual Ultra-Fast NVMe PCIe Gen3 M.2 (x4, x2) with One Thermal Guard
High Quality Audio Capacitors and Audio Noise Guard with LED Trace Path Lighting
RGB FUSION with Multi-Zone LED Light Show Design, Supports Digital LED & RGB LED Strips
GIGABYTE Exclusive 8118 Gaming LAN with Bandwidth Management
Smart Fan 5 Features 6 Temperature Sensors and 4 Hybrid Fan Headers with FAN STOP
APP Center Including EasyTune™ and Cloud Station™ Utilities
CEC 2019 Ready, Save Power with a Single Click

[Mr. Scram]

what a load of codswallop:

Supports AMD 2nd Generation Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics/ 1st Generation Ryzen™ Processors
Dual Channel Non-ECC Unbuffered DDR4, 4 DIMMs
HDMI, DVI-D Ports for Multiple Display
Integrated I/O Shield of Ultra Durable™ Design
Dual Ultra-Fast NVMe PCIe Gen3 M.2 (x4, x2) with One Thermal Guard
High Quality Audio Capacitors and Audio Noise Guard with LED Trace Path Lighting
RGB FUSION with Multi-Zone LED Light Show Design, Supports Digital LED & RGB LED Strips
GIGABYTE Exclusive 8118 Gaming LAN with Bandwidth Management
Smart Fan 5 Features 6 Temperature Sensors and 4 Hybrid Fan Headers with FAN STOP
APP Center Including EasyTune™ and Cloud Station™ Utilities
CEC 2019 Ready, Save Power with a Single Click

Where are all the important metrics and part numbers?

[Simon]

what a load of codswallop:

Supports AMD 2nd Generation Ryzen™/ Ryzen™ with Radeon™ Vega Graphics/ 1st Generation Ryzen™ Processors
Dual Channel Non-ECC Unbuffered DDR4, 4 DIMMs
HDMI, DVI-D Ports for Multiple Display
Integrated I/O Shield of Ultra Durable™ Design
Dual Ultra-Fast NVMe PCIe Gen3 M.2 (x4, x2) with One Thermal Guard
High Quality Audio Capacitors and Audio Noise Guard with LED Trace Path Lighting
RGB FUSION with Multi-Zone LED Light Show Design, Supports Digital LED & RGB LED Strips
GIGABYTE Exclusive 8118 Gaming LAN with Bandwidth Management
Smart Fan 5 Features 6 Temperature Sensors and 4 Hybrid Fan Headers with FAN STOP
APP Center Including EasyTune™ and Cloud Station™ Utilities
CEC 2019 Ready, Save Power with a Single Click

Where are all the important metrics and part numbers?

Exactly! what are Audio capacitors? didn't anyone tell them that digital signals are far faster than audio ones and if audio capacitors is all the assholes put in then they ain't clever!