Author Topic: Twenty passengers on missing flight 370 worked for Freescale Semiconductors  (Read 177371 times)

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Offline BravoV

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Just read our local news that reported a "speculation" about the conspiracy theory, since the informations are so scattered in pieces like a puzzle that looks like its deliberately orchestrated in timely fashion to extend the time and also to confuse the exact search location.  ???

With the assumption its hijacked and not crashed, then it can be done only with a precision military operation type, a poor man/low tech hijacker just can not afford to do this in this scale. Currently the best spot is Diego Garcia island that is still within fuel range.

The island owned by British and also serves as US military airbase which is the plane can land safely, its also known for CIA's dirty secret place for "interrogation".  >:D

Garbage speculation ?  ::)

Offline rollatorwieltje

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Maybe they did not report the occurrence because they could not, the radio had been damaged by the fire,

Nice idea, but if the latest time-line is to be believed (...) then the last radio contact with the "All right, good night" message was after some of the communication systems were already turned off.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/16/flight-mh370-last-message-communications-disabled-malaysia
How do they know ACARS was actually turned off? Afaik it just sends a status message at a certain interval.

My theory would be some failure causing slow decompression. Pilots get oxygen deprived and makes poor decisions. Maybe even punching something weird in the autopilot. People often don't realize they are actually oxygen deprived, even well trained people (like divers) don't always recognize the symptoms.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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A slow decompression is unlikely. There is a cockpit warning when the cabin altitude climbs through an unsafe level and the oxygen masks will drop automatically in the cabin.
 

Offline hli

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Another theory which still explains much of what is known today: http://therealsingapore.com/content/mh370-what-happened
 

Online tom66

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In the case of Helios 522, a similar event occurred, the crew misunderstanding the warning while climbing as a "takeoff config error"
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As the aircraft climbed, the pressure inside the cabin gradually decreased. As it passed through an altitude of 12,040 feet (3,670 m), the cabin altitude warning horn sounded.[3] The warning should have prompted the crew to stop climbing,[10] but it was misidentified by the crew as a take-off configuration warning, which signals that the aircraft is not ready for take-off, and can only sound on the ground.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522#Flight_and_crash

A similar event could have occurred, perhaps in the case of the SATCOM de-pressurisation, the crew may not have been able to react fast enough?
 

Online EEVblog

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Maybe the 'authorities' know more than they are letting on, maybe they don't. Either way it seems the public are being drip fed as to the aircrafts final detour/route/location, why I have no idea. It's either because they need to, or it's because the 'authorities' are pretty much incompetent and don't really know what they are doing, or maybe they are just trying to cover their arses.

Usually governments can be relied upon the screw things up completely, that's how they work, too many cooks, and too many arses to cover.

But if they do know more, then I wouldn't be telling the press anything, because that limits their response options. e.g. if the plane did secretly land somewhere, then you don't want the world knowing that you know.
 

Online EEVblog

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A real explosive depressurization is very stressful. Noise, wind, cold and thick mist making it difficult to see anything in the cockpit. At 35,000ft, they had 10-15 seconds to fit their O2 masks, assuming the O2 system was not damaged.

That's plenty of time to put on their masks, and AFAIK, their tanks are completely independent, so almost impossible to destroy them and not the pilots and cockpit.
So unless both pilots were out of the cockpit at the time of an incident, I don't buy any theory about decompression knocking out the pilots and then the plane flying on it's own through waypoints that weren't entered etc.

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An inflight hi-jack is not impossible, but very difficult nowadays, with a protected cockpit door.

I'd be willing to bet a few guys could get through that door in a few minutes.
But of course that means that the pilots would have time to alert ground control of what's happening before they get in, not to mention time for passengers to beat the crap out of them.
So yes, not easy to hijack a plane these days, unless the door is already open for you...
 

Offline BravoV

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An inflight hi-jack is not impossible, but very difficult nowadays, with a protected cockpit door.

I'd be willing to bet a few guys could get through that door in a few minutes.
But of course that means that the pilots would have time to alert ground control of what's happening before they get in, not to mention time for passengers to beat the crap out of them.
So yes, not easy to hijack a plane these days, unless the door is already open for you...

Meh ... you only needs blonde chicks to get the door opened voluntarily by the captain.  :P

Online EEVblog

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Meh ... you only needs blonde chicks to get the door opened voluntarily by the captain.  :P

And that's not a sexist comment either, in this specific case it's a documented fact!
 

Offline echen1024

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Meh ... you only needs blonde chicks to get the door opened voluntarily by the captain.  :P

And that's not a sexist comment either, in this specific case it's a documented fact!
It's quite frankly the truth. Sex sells, people.
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

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Offline TerraHertz

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Meh ... you only needs blonde chicks to get the door opened voluntarily by the captain.  :P

And that's not a sexist comment either, in this specific case it's a documented fact!
It's quite frankly the truth. Sex sells, people.

Before the phony hijack paranoia created by 911, it was pretty common for passengers to request to visit the cockpit, and be allowed to sit in back for a while. I used to do this in domestic flights in Australia. Twice asked, twice given permission. So long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself, pilots like to have company. They'd ask you to leave just before beginning landing approach, understandably.

Also the TSA-style madness hasn't penetrated so far into non-US airlines, especially Asian ones. So I don't see anything unusual at all in that captain having passengers up in the cockpit during a flight. Nor in his having a flight simulator at home. People who like flying often do set up some amazing simulators. One of the really good flight sims is by an Australian company btw.

There's quite a bit more I could say on this, but my posts are being deleted. See sig for details.

I'd also like to discuss the technical aspects of the official "It's on these arcs" chart published yesterday (see below), but it's impossible given the unacceptable conduct of a certain mod.

Also, can we have an official clarification please? Is it acceptable in this forum to discuss scenarios in which there was high level State involvement in the disappearance of MH370, or is it forbidden?

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Online EEVblog

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Also the TSA-style madness hasn't penetrated so far into non-US airlines, especially Asian ones. So I don't see anything unusual at all in that captain having passengers up in the cockpit during a flight.

Except for the fact that it's against the policy of most airlines, including Malaysian.

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Nor in his having a flight simulator at home. People who like flying often do set up some amazing simulators. One of the really good flight sims is by an Australian company btw.

Yes, complete red herring that one. Unless of course the logs show the tracked diverted path, so of course they should at least check the logs (if it has any).

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Also, can we have an official clarification please? Is it acceptable in this forum to discuss scenarios in which there was high level State involvement in the disappearance of MH370, or is it forbidden?

Generally not, no. Especially from you, because you have done it time and time again, which is why a moderator is editing your posts when you do. You've been warned before but continue to post stuff like this at every opportunity. So you don't get covered by the usual common sense one-off rules, you're a three-striker. Congratulations. There are plenty of other places to go publish all your thoughts.
 

Offline mos6502

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A real explosive depressurization is very stressful. Noise, wind, cold and thick mist making it difficult to see anything in the cockpit. At 35,000ft, they had 10-15 seconds to fit their O2 masks, assuming the O2 system was not damaged.

That's plenty of time to put on their masks, and AFAIK, their tanks are completely independent, so almost impossible to destroy them and not the pilots and cockpit.
So unless both pilots were out of the cockpit at the time of an incident, I don't buy any theory about decompression knocking out the pilots and then the plane flying on it's own through waypoints that weren't entered etc.

The problem isn't so much the time, it's that the symptoms of hypoxia aren't something you notice by yourself unless you're extremely vigilant. You can become unconscious without ever being aware of having been impaired:



This is what happened in the Helios Airways crash linked above. Now, there are warning systems, but the Helios story shows that they can be misinterpreted, especially if the pilots are already too far gone.

Check out this story where a plane kept flying for five hours after everyone on board was already dead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Australia_Beechcraft_King_Air_crash

Edit: here's another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash

Obviously, the crash site would be very hard to find if the plane kept flying over the ocean for several more hours.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 02:53:11 am by mos6502 »
for(;;);
 

Offline pickle9000

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So I have a couple questions some relate some are just personal interest.

The ACARS system, sends information about the plane. One comment was that the navigation system was reprogrammed for a direction change, is that information that would be sent? I know engine information is sent is that the same system? ACARS is a radio system does it share the vhf/uhf transmitter/antenna that the pilots can use?



 

Online vk6zgo

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My gut feel is that the crew lost consciousness after some mechanical failure and the plane was left to wander erratically until it ran out of fuel.

Doubt it. Apparently they went via known waypoints that were totally different from their normal flight path.
Also, the crew have oxygen at the ready, and I'd imagine that any extreme G induced blackouts (that didn't break the plane apart) would only be temporary.

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Hijacking or pilot willful misconduct doesn't make much sense to me, but should be investigated.

Having just finished reading QF32 (awesome book), my feeling is that it's got to be a deliberate act is the only logical conclusion. These planes just have far too many redundant backup systems to not get out a mayday call or some other indication of trouble. If it was total sudden breakup then that would be understandable, but otherwise, no way.

Lack of pressurisation,rather than loss of it,has occurred in the past,notably with a FIFO charter
which was intended to  go to a WA mining town.
It ended up running out of fuel & crashing in outback Queensland.

Ironically,I worked with the Pilot of that aircraft,& he told us that the biggest danger was not noticing
the pressurisation wasn't on.
At least in the aircraft he flew,there was a visual indication of low cabin pressure,but no audible one.

He explained that people basically just gently "dropped off to sleep",& never regained consciousness.

I was surprised that he got caught out by the very thing he was warning about,but that was the conclusion
of the Air Crash Investigation.

I guess it's the same as when we warn about Electrical safety,but once in a while get zapped!
In our case,there are degrees of danger,but in that case it was all or nothing!


 
 

Offline cimmo

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Re: Post Censorship.

If this is a "General Chat" part of the overall forum, I don't think it fair that certain topics are considered 'off limits'. If posters wish to express their views about something that might even be total tin-foil hat then they should be allowed to  - with perhaps some reasonable limits on numbers of posts and lengths of posts (that should be stated in advance).

It then is up to the readers of the posts to determine whether or not any opinions might be valid. And if they disagree, then just ignore the post. With a topic as completely speculative as this (at this stage), then I don't think ANY theories are completely off limits.

Yes, this IS your backyard and you set the rules, but I think the application of those rules has been a bit unfair.
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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But of course that means that the pilots would have time to alert ground control of what's happening before they get in, not to mention time for passengers to beat the crap out of them.
So yes, not easy to hijack a plane these days, unless the door is already open for you...
Apart from locked doors (yes, as a kid I got taken to the cockpit several times - sometimes cabin crew offered a trip without even asking), probably the biggest actual improvement in anti-hijack security since Sept. 11 is that passengers are now much more likely to fight back.
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Offline cimmo

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I have no idea if this fact is relevant in this case, but as it doesn't seem widely known, I will post this link:
TL:DR,  B777 avionics bay is accessible inflight from pax cabin.



Edit:spelling
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Offline JoeyP

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This case has gotten a lot more interesting in the past few days. The new information about the extended flight path is perplexing, but doesn't necessarily point to deliberate human action in my mind. At first glance it would seem to be on purpose and under human control, but here are a few things to consider:

1. There is no logical reason for a human to decide to take that plane to 45K'. The speculation has been that this was to knock the passengers out, but it would be completely unnecessary. The pilots have direct control of the pressurization system, and could easily depressurize the aircraft at 35K' and have all passengers unconscious within about 2 minutes max (and dead shortly thereafter). By the way, I've heard and read all kinds of numbers about the amount of time the fight crew would remain conscious after explosive depressurization at 35K'. "Time of useful consciousness" is considered to be 30-60 seconds at that altitude. Here's a chart: http://expertaviator.com/2012/04/19/oxygen-requirements-time-of-useful-consciousness-and-intercept-procedures/

EDIT: Time for passengers to become unconscious would be about 2 minutes + however long the emergency oxygen masks supplied oxygen (which might be slightly shorter at 45K'). But that's still  not a long time because it's expected that after accidental depressurization the pilot's will immediately start an emergency descent to a safe altitude. The oxygen generators don't need to have a lot of capacity.

2. The spread in airspeed between stall and mach buffet is less than 10 knots for that plane at that altitude (it is often this small spread that ends up determining service ceilings for jets). Go below the low end and you stall and possible spin etc. Go above the high end and you hit mach buffet which can quickly destroy the plane or result in dramatic loss of control. It's nearly impossible for a well trained, skilled pilot to keep the airplane within that tiny spread - especially as it was climbing because the numbers change with altitude. That means if it went to that altitude, it probably did so under autopilot control because only an autopilot would be likely to succeed at it.

3. The one bit of convincing evidence would seem to be the "Good night" declaration by radio -after- the transponder was already off. But this is a bit fishy because if the transponder had been off for even a minute before that call, ATC would have noted it, and would have queried the pilots about it when they made that last call. Yes, it may have just been human error there. Most aviation accidents result from a stack-up of at least 3 human errors.

I heard a former 777 captain discuss what he believed was a plausible scenario on the news last night. Basically, he thinks it was all about a slow burning fire which took out avionics systems one by one in slow succession. This has been known to occur before (in other aircraft - not the 777). The smoke may have even incapacitated the pilots before they even knew it was happening. He stated the 777 (and apparently most Boeing aircraft) is designed to tolerate/survive an extensive fire in the avionics bay, and that it would eventually burn itself out without spreading to other areas of the aircraft. The fire may have already started, and taken out the transponder before the "Good night" call, but the pilots weren't yet aware of it. That would be a bit of a coincidence in the timing, but this whole event is something like a 1 in a million occurrence, so coincidences can't be ruled out.


« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:34:44 pm by JoeyP »
 

Online tom66

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The only problem I see with the slow burning fire theory is it's happened many times before and the plane was either a total loss (Swissair 111 comes to mind) or was able to land with most instruments failed. There aren't any instances I could see where a pilot would keep flying for hours. In most cases, the autopilot disconnected after just a few systems were lost. It's possible the fire only took out a few systems then stopped but wouldn't the pilots  notice things like the radio malfunctioning?
 

Offline Kjelt

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You are telling me that in our houses we all have fire/smole sensors at $10 a piece but in a multimillion dollar plane those are absent?  :palm:
 

Offline Wytnucls

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There are smoke detectors in most compartments of an airliner, including the avionics bay.
 

Offline JoeyP

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You are telling me that in our houses we all have fire/smole sensors at $10 a piece but in a multimillion dollar plane those are absent?  :palm:

Nope. Didn't say anything of the sort. At some point, the pilots would surely have become aware of it, but since you and I weren't there, we have no way of knowing how things unfolded. Keep in mind that in fires, most people die of smoke inhalation rather than burning. As altitude increases and air gets thinner, people become dramatically more sensitive to smoke - especially carbon  monoxide. Our lungs have 100x the affinity for CO that they do for oxygen, so with thin air it takes very little CO to cause big problems very quickly.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Anyway whatever the cause if the plane crashed there should be a lot of wreckage and nothing has yet been found.  :-//
 

Online tom66

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You are telling me that in our houses we all have fire/smole sensors at $10 a piece but in a multimillion dollar plane those are absent?  :palm:

It's a harder engineering problem than it first seems. What about dust from the undercarriage? That can trigger false alarms.  Such a bay is rarely cleaned and has many fans from the equipment running continuously.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:25:44 pm by tom66 »
 


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