Poll

So, what you (UK) guys think? Exit or not to exit?

YES, please get me out of there (I'm UK) [go]
41 (19.5%)
Hell no, we are one big (happy) family! (I'm UK) [stay]
42 (20%)
OMG, let them Go! [go]
63 (30%)
I love the UK, they are family! [stay]
64 (30.5%)

Total Members Voted: 207

Voting closed: July 10, 2016, 10:29:34 am

Author Topic: UK forum members, BREXIT?  (Read 508651 times)

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Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1200 on: June 27, 2016, 10:57:27 am »
Edit: name one thing the UK is better at nowadays than all the other countries in the EU! Englisch breakfast and oldest Queen don't count  >:D
ARM processors are pretty much ahead of the game. Pretty sure they're British.


On the resignation thing. An outsiders viewpoint.

Wow.
Call such a divisive referendum which puts half your country offside and all of Europe offside, then resign without carrying out the Article 50.
Wars have probably started for less.
He should fulfill the result of the referendum first, then resign.
 
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Offline rolycat

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1201 on: June 27, 2016, 11:14:50 am »
Edit: name one thing the UK is better at nowadays than all the other countries in the EU! Englisch breakfast and oldest Queen don't count  >:D
ARM processors are pretty much ahead of the game. Pretty sure they're British.


On the resignation thing. An outsiders viewpoint.

Wow.
Call such a divisive referendum which puts half your country offside and all of Europe offside, then resign without carrying out the Article 50.
Wars have probably started for less.
He should fulfill the result of the referendum first, then resign.

The Independent is reporting an off-the-wall theory that dodging Article 50 is a cunning plan to destroy the careers of Boris and his chums, while annulling the referendum result.

Lots of people clutching at straws, at the moment  :scared:
 

Offline StuUK

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1202 on: June 27, 2016, 11:34:18 am »
[

The Independent is reporting an off-the-wall theory that dodging Article 50 is a cunning plan to destroy the careers of Boris and his chums, while annulling the referendum result.

Lots of people clutching at straws, at the moment  :scared:

Not as off the wall as it might first appear.....
 

Offline bitslice

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1203 on: June 27, 2016, 11:49:30 am »
Nice. Holding an entire continent hostage while you slowly start to sort out your internal petty party politics, before you are ready to decide if you leave or not or if you come up with something totally different.

Equally the EU has had decades to work out that we are not interested in becoming part of Junkers federation, yet by bribing other countries to remain part of its cliche, we've been forced to follow the same path.
You've also had 20 years to sort out your spending, but still there's a £100 billion black hole. Even the Mafia have a better fiscal track record.

Like any expansionist organisation with a arrogant drunkard in charge, everyone tries to maintain their own fiefdoms by continually expanding their influence, rather than just doing one job efficiently.

Right now there are a billion people telling you that inviting Turkey into the EU is insane, so what do you do? Do it in secret anyway.
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1204 on: June 27, 2016, 12:00:56 pm »
The pound is falling, the chancellor is making a brave speech, this is not because of the result, this is because of the dithering.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1205 on: June 27, 2016, 12:21:56 pm »
I'm not sure why people are surprised, or feel the need to comment on Camerons resignation.  He didn't want the referendum, was openly for remaining within the EU (as all parties were, except the laughable UKIP) and he assumed the public would see sense, and the matter would be put to bed, at least for the rest of his leadership.  Well it backfired because whilst many people seemed to have valid reasons for wanting out, a fair chunk didn't have a clue and voted that way, so he has to stand down because the referendum went the other way to what he stood for.

I was expected, and even assumed by most that I spoke to, and yet... some seem to be shocked.  Again, it goes back to those who voted to leave and changed their minds - what exactly did they expect? Everything to be hunkydory just with a lot more cash the government can spend?  Far too many focused on the 'make Britain great again', like somehow we can turn back time - something the older generation is prone to (we all end up more-or-less stuck in the period around our twenties).  This leads to some saying 'I told you so', and a very real level of frustration when you have those who so loudly promoted leaving the EU suddenly wetting their pants.  Shit is still being thrown by both sides.

Anyone noticed how Corbyn is almost nowhere to be seen, as usual. Whilst we may complain that our leaders are reckless or disingenuous, at least most had enough charisma for people to remember who they are.  I feel for Scotland, and Northern Ireland, and the rest of Europe.  It is usually the US that is seen as being a bit of a 'spoiled child' of the world, but nope, this time, it really is Britain. I have heard some rather patriotic friends say they actually feel ashamed - bearing in mind whilst the rest of the world might see us as patriotic, I rarely see it.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1206 on: June 27, 2016, 12:25:55 pm »
We should not have had the vote without a deal. We did not know what we were voting on.
 

Offline bitslice

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1207 on: June 27, 2016, 12:42:15 pm »
Again, it goes back to those who voted to leave and changed their minds - what exactly did they expect?
Many people in Britain like to vote tactically, they don't like anyone so they either vote for the Greens or they vote for the party they think is going to lose, so that nobody gets a majority.

Obviously many assumed that the Remain vote would win, so they voted against it as a way of sticking two fingers up to the EU elites.

And please, can we stop it with the "OMG Make Britain Great again/£350 million for the NHS" sniggering, nobody believed any of that nonsense. Just look at the Bank of England pulling out £250 Billion to bolster the situation, £350 million is obviously small change in the scheme of things.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1208 on: June 27, 2016, 12:45:20 pm »
The Independent is reporting an off-the-wall theory that dodging Article 50 is a cunning plan to destroy the careers of Boris and his chums, while annulling the referendum result.
Lots of people clutching at straws, at the moment  :scared:
Well it is easy to criticize others just like in soccer everyone in the pub knows best how it should be done, then you get the job yourself and you find out it is not easy, it is actually incredibly difficult. 
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1209 on: June 27, 2016, 01:12:10 pm »
Do we even need 1940's post war organisations like the EU in this century of globalisation, I think not. Most things can be sold any where in the world as long as they comply with ISO and other standards such as IEE, most things are available online as well. So to a large extent the EU could be considered redundant in the greater scheme of things.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1210 on: June 27, 2016, 01:33:11 pm »
The Independent is reporting an off-the-wall theory that dodging Article 50 is a cunning plan to destroy the careers of Boris and his chums, while annulling the referendum result.
If you have watched 'House of cards' then you'd assume this would be a winning strategy for Cameron. Be done with UKIP once and for all.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1211 on: June 27, 2016, 01:40:43 pm »
Again, it goes back to those who voted to leave and changed their minds - what exactly did they expect?
Many people in Britain like to vote tactically, they don't like anyone so they either vote for the Greens or they vote for the party they think is going to lose, so that nobody gets a majority.

Not everybody votes green as a protest. The green party as UKIP have a genuine following. You know it's a protest vote in an election when the same poll card has a vote for green AND UKIP
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1212 on: June 27, 2016, 01:45:39 pm »
Do we even need 1940's post war organisations like the EU in this century of globalisation, I think not. Most things can be sold any where in the world as long as they comply with ISO and other standards such as IEE, most things are available online as well. So to a large extent the EU could be considered redundant in the greater scheme of things.

There's a bit more to this than harmonized standards for goods. I'll wager that you're too young to have had a father that fought in the 2nd World War and we're both too young to have a father that fought in the 1st World War. Both wars started in Europe. Prior to the end of 2nd World War there was almost always a war going on somewhere in Europe. Since the formation of the various post war pan-European organizations there hasn't been a war in Europe - I doubt that is coincidence.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1213 on: June 27, 2016, 01:48:12 pm »
Do we even need 1940's post war organisations like the EU in this century of globalisation, I think not. Most things can be sold any where in the world as long as they comply with ISO and other standards such as IEE, most things are available online as well. So to a large extent the EU could be considered redundant in the greater scheme of things.

There's a bit more to this than harmonized standards for goods. I'll wager that you're too young to have had a father that fought in the 2nd World War and we're both too young to have a father that fought in the 1st World War. Both wars started in Europe. Prior to the end of 2nd World War there was almost always a war going on somewhere in Europe. Since the formation of the various post war pan-European organizations there hasn't been a war in Europe - I doubt that is coincidence.

A lot of other things have changed as well, we are globalized, we trade it's no longer us and them unless your ignorant and/or live under a rock.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1214 on: June 27, 2016, 01:48:47 pm »
The Independent is reporting an off-the-wall theory that dodging Article 50 is a cunning plan to destroy the careers of Boris and his chums, while annulling the referendum result.
If you have watched 'House of cards' then you'd assume this would be a winning strategy for Cameron. Be done with UKIP once and for all.

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment  ;)

(Quote from the original British series starring Ian Richardson)
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1215 on: June 27, 2016, 01:55:38 pm »
The pound is falling, the chancellor is making a brave speech, this is not because of the result, this is because of the dithering.
I'm not entirely sure it is the dithering - if Brext were going to have no impact on the value of the £ then delay in formally putting things in motion would not affect the markets. It's more likely to be the fact that both the Labour and the Tories are having/about to have leadership battles/crises that is spooking the market.

.....what exactly did they expect? Everything to be hunkydory just with a lot more cash the government can spend? 
To be fair that's what the Leave campaign told them would happen.

Quote
Anyone noticed how Corbyn is almost nowhere to be seen, as usual. Whilst we may complain that our leaders are reckless or disingenuous, at least most had enough charisma for people to remember who they are.
Corbyn's problem is that he is a bit too honest, he (apparently) tried to have a nuanced discussion with the public - that simply doesn't work. The GBP (Great British Public) wants a simple black-or-white argument to be presented because that's how we've always done politics.

As to the resignation - that piece in the Indy is an interesting theory but it is just that. I don't think one needs to look further beyond the fact that Cameron decided that he did not want history to record his last act as PM to be invocation of Article 50. Had he not resigned he risked a vote of no confidence and a relatively controlled hand over to a new PM is much less destructive. The fact that it leaves the Brexit crowd still riding the tiger and wondering how to get off is a bonus.

We need a plan - I hope that behind the scenes a lot of activity is taking place to sort one out.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1216 on: June 27, 2016, 01:58:38 pm »
Do we even need 1940's post war organisations like the EU in this century of globalisation, I think not. Most things can be sold any where in the world as long as they comply with ISO and other standards such as IEE, most things are available online as well. So to a large extent the EU could be considered redundant in the greater scheme of things.

There's a bit more to this than harmonized standards for goods. I'll wager that you're too young to have had a father that fought in the 2nd World War and we're both too young to have a father that fought in the 1st World War. Both wars started in Europe. Prior to the end of 2nd World War there was almost always a war going on somewhere in Europe. Since the formation of the various post war pan-European organizations there hasn't been a war in Europe - I doubt that is coincidence.
My mother in law was nurse in the war my father in law was a POW from dunkirk onward, my father was an RAF medic just after the war. I have great grandparents who fled Poland in 1912 and Russia in 1919 and Grece and France in the 1920's. The EU or rather its predecessor helped in the post war stabilisation but the cold war with the nuclear sword of Damocles has been a far bigger factor in keeping the peace.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1217 on: June 27, 2016, 02:18:19 pm »
UK can get out from this current situation quite easily by setting up another round of the same vote. Of course the "winners" will say that the new round is not needed as the dice has already cast. But the winners should not be afraid of the new vote, if the vote result is real as the outcome of the new vote should be the same. The basis for the new vote is quite clear:

How many 'do-overs' should there be?  Just one to counteract the first vote?  Maybe a third in case the second doesn't get the right answer?  Best 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7 - like the playoffs?  Maybe somebody should just print up the ballots with the right answer already marked.  The counting will go faster!

One is enough :) The current 52 - 48 is very tight so it could be considered as "tie". For example, it was estimated that the weather during the voting day could affect the result +/- few per cent, so should the weather really decide the future of the Great Britain. I have also listed three other points why the new vote might be in order. With better margin, the result can be more reliable and reflect better the voter's will.

You should also keep in mind that the current vote result is not obligatory, so UK may still decide not to resign from the EU if the parliament decides so. With the current small margin, it would be quite tempting not to file Article 50. Arranging a new vote, the people's voice would be heard better.

I guess one would be enough if you get the answer you want but what if the result is even thinner?  You want a 3rd vote?  What if it is even more heavily slanted toward leave?

Parliament can decide to ignore the voters if they wish.  It's a referendum, not a cast-in-stone obligation.  After all, the members of Parliament are much smarter than the great hordes of voters.  Just ask them!

The US has had quite a few presidential elections that were far closer than Brexit:

http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-closest-presidential-elections.php

In fact, Obama won the 2012 election 51% to 47% - you didn't see us whining about a 'do-over'.

I'm pretty sure the weather was the same for everyone.  Vote or don't but if you don't, you can't whine about the results.

FWIW, voting is mandatory in Singapore.  Skip an election and you lose the right to vote in all future elections.  You MIGHT, after paying a S$50 fine, have your voting rights restored but there is no guarantee.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 02:21:15 pm by rstofer »
 

Offline Delta

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1218 on: June 27, 2016, 02:20:47 pm »

Corbyn's problem is that he is a bit too honest,

You are joking, aren't you?

I think Corbyn is a loony lefty, with completely idiotic policies.  BUT I did think he was a principled man, with the courage of his convictions - "This is what I believe in, and this is what I want to do."  He is also a lifelong Eurosceptic, and has voted against the EU at every turn.  Then somehow he was brow-beaten into pretending to be a remainer.  Just look at how half-arsed his campaigning was!
Had he stuck to his true feelings, he could have lead the Labour Leave campaign, and would be sitting pretty and in a position to try to enact some of his left-wing ideals in the exit process.

 

Offline apis

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1219 on: June 27, 2016, 02:42:08 pm »
In fact, Obama won the 2012 election 51% to 47% - you didn't see us whining about a 'do-over'.
Yeah, and in the 2000 election Bush won with 47.87% against Gore who got 48.38% -- oh wait. :palm: Then Bush and Blair decided it was a good idea to invade Iraq and now we have complete chaos in the middle east with religious fanatics raping neighbouring countries and blowing things up all over Europe and North America. Kinda wish the Americans would have insisted on a 'do-over'. Xenophobes all over Europe are gaining power, complaining about the refugees from the fallout of the Iraq war, except in England where they are instead complaining about the dirty polish. :palm:

Sigh. If it was possible I would vote for an exit from earth, but unfortunately, not much of an option in reality, just like the brexit. There was some talk about a colony on mars though... hmmm.:-DD
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:11:18 pm by apis »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1220 on: June 27, 2016, 02:46:32 pm »
The pound is falling, the chancellor is making a brave speech, this is not because of the result, this is because of the dithering.
I'm not entirely sure it is the dithering - if Brext were going to have no impact on the value of the £ then delay in formally putting things in motion would not affect the markets. It's more likely to be the fact that both the Labour and the Tories are having/about to have leadership battles/crises that is spooking the market.


That's what I meant. Instead of getting on with it we have left europe in the lurch and have gone off to have our own squables, we no longer know any more about the future of our own country than we do about the EU
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1221 on: June 27, 2016, 02:55:27 pm »

Corbyn's problem is that he is a bit too honest,

You are joking, aren't you?
No.

Quote
I think Corbyn is a loony lefty, with completely idiotic policies.  BUT I did think he was a principled man, with the courage of his convictions - "This is what I believe in, and this is what I want to do."  He is also a lifelong Eurosceptic, and has voted against the EU at every turn.  Then somehow he was brow-beaten into pretending to be a remainer.  Just look at how half-arsed his campaigning was!
Had he stuck to his true feelings, he could have lead the Labour Leave campaign, and would be sitting pretty and in a position to try to enact some of his left-wing ideals in the exit process.
I agree with pretty much all you just said.

I know that Corbyn was vehemently Euroskeptic in the past but even principled politicians sometimes change their views.

BUT it doesn't actually matter whether he had some sort of epiphany over Europe or just agreed to toe the party line. Once the decision had been made that he would back the Remain campaign he should have done so wholeheartedly. His famous "I'm seven-and-a-half out of ten on Europe" comment did not inspire confidence. In fact the BBC is reporting that about half of Labour supporters were unsure what the official stance of the party was. It might be more honest for him to admit that he had come around to supporting our membership of the EU but with reservations (it also might not, but let's give the benefit of the doubt) but it did not help the campaign.

 

Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1222 on: June 27, 2016, 02:57:28 pm »
In fact the BBC is reporting that about half of Labour supporters were unsure what the official stance of the party was. It might be more honest for him to admit that he had come around to supporting our membership of the EU but with reservations (it also might not, but let's give the benefit of the doubt) but it did not help the campaign.



Bearing in mind they don't like him anyware and are government mouthpeice particularly if you listen to radio 4
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1223 on: June 27, 2016, 03:23:20 pm »
In fact, Obama won the 2012 election 51% to 47% - you didn't see us whining about a 'do-over'.
Yeah, and in the 2000 election Bush won with 47.87% against Gore who got 48.38% -- oh wait. :palm: Then Bush and Blair decided it was a good idea to invade Iraq and now we have complete chaos in the middle east with religious fanatics raping neighbouring countries and blowing things up all over Europe and North America. Kinda wish the Americans would have insisted on a 'do-over'. Xenophobes all over Europe are gaining power, complaining about the refugees from the fallout of the Iraq war, except in England where they are instead complaining about the dirty polish. :palm:

Sigh. If it was possible I would vote for an exit from earth, but unfortunately, not much of an option in reality, just like the brexit. There was some talk about a colony on mars though... hmmm.:-DD

Brexit is definitely more profound decision than just selecting the President for the next 4 years. Brexit is a decision that will affect the country and its citizens for the next decades, so it should better be a good decision - not just f**k-you-government-statement.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 03:30:48 pm by Kalvin »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: UK forum members, BREXIT?
« Reply #1224 on: June 27, 2016, 03:34:31 pm »


Brexit is definitely more profound decision than just selecting the President for the next 4 years. Brexit is a decision that will affect the country and its citizens for the next decades, so it should better be a good decision - not just f**k-you-government-statement.

But that really is how stupid people are.
 


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