UK: New law - now illegal to view terrorist material online

[james_s]

And of course there's the usual problem with anything of this nature, nearly anyone who is truly a threat will be clever enough to get the information without getting caught. Use a stolen computer from a public wifi network, use a computer in a public library, hack a neighbor's wifi in an apartment complex, etc. It's likely to snare a lot of innocent people in the process too, since the definition of "terrorist material" is so broad and does not require any proof of intent.

Another thing that has long bothered me is that terrorism is in the same sort of class as things like shark attacks, incidents that are very dramatic but actually very rare, not even making the list of top 100 things likely to kill you. Humans in general utterly fail at risk analysis. A person will be afraid to fly on an airliner because it might crash but they'll drive down the highway while browsing facebook on their smartphone. 

[wraper]

lol, how does this effect pyrotechnics and chemistry hobbies?

That's worse than terrorism. You shall not do chemistry. Not to say take screwdriver in your hand.
https://twitter.com/MPSRegentsPark/status/974645778558980096/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E974645778558980096&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2F29224%2Fheres-what-london-police-recovered-weapons-sweep-paul-bois

[coppercone2]

thats things you might take away from like a 1 year old '


man their fuckin strapped with fiskars and klien !!! so if your a heavy weight gangster you need like a knippex?

so like thats the english equivalent of a .38 special. A glock 9 is like https://chadstoolbox.com/90-25-40-knipex-pipe-cutter/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwtMvlBRDmARIsAEoQ8zTgAllI56gyH6iD4aGNyvGXfkoi5brV32aQN-N3bq5_1VxoyWAMy0caAmVKEALw_wcB (gotta sell alot of crack and do lots of muggings for that baby)

how do you tweet that shit with a strait face?  its like trumps drunkposts.

[apis]

Prison for 19 year old with hobby knife
The High Court in Odense today tightened the verdict for the 19-year-old Haris Cehic, who had forgotten two hobby knives in his car. The young man has to go to prison for seven days, settled the court. Otherwise, the district court had initially fined him a fine of DKK 3,000.
...
The police were also on site and during a routine search the two hobby knives found his car. According to Haris Cehic it was knives that he had forgotten after work.

https://www.tv2fyn.dk/artikel/faengsel-til-19-arig-med-hobbykniv

They changed it back to a fine again, but still, don't bring a pocket knife if you're going to Denmark.

[soldar]

It's a whole lot of theater. The public demands security and the authorities deliver fake security in the form of theater because the alternative is "doing nothing" which is unacceptable, so they "do something".

It's not only security. Bureaucrats need to justify their existence so they just create problems for the public. In Spain you apply for, say, a building permit and the first reply is denying it because they think that is what justifies their jobs. Later you insist adding a few more forms and documents and they grant it but they have made it clear who is in charge and that they are there and in control.

When terrorism or other emergency happens the last thing a government wants is to be seen as "doing nothing" so they have to "do something" even if that something is totally unrelated or even has negative effects.

[Stray Electron]

It's a whole lot of theater. The public demands security and the authorities deliver fake security in the form of theater because the alternative is "doing nothing" which is unacceptable, so they "do something".

   That's a perfect description of TSA's operation in this country.  They may has have a troop of monkeys operating the security check points.

[MrMobodies]

What if I am "caught" carrying around a large Maglite at night like this one:



They could argue with it being metal, weighty and long that it can be used as a weapon and I can get smaller brighter led lights.

lol, how does this effect pyrotechnics and chemistry hobbies?

That's worse than terrorism. You shall not do chemistry. Not to say take screwdriver in your hand.
https://twitter.com/MPSRegentsPark/status/974645778558980096/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E974645778558980096&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2F29224%2Fheres-what-london-police-recovered-weapons-sweep-paul-bois

I carry those things around in my coat pocket and bags apart from the hand file for work.

[2N3055]

What if I am "caught" carrying around a large Maglite at night like this one:



They could argue with it being metal, weighty and long that it can be used as a weapon and I can get smaller brighter led lights.

lol, how does this effect pyrotechnics and chemistry hobbies?

That's worse than terrorism. You shall not do chemistry. Not to say take screwdriver in your hand.
https://twitter.com/MPSRegentsPark/status/974645778558980096/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E974645778558980096&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailywire.com%2Fnews%2F29224%2Fheres-what-london-police-recovered-weapons-sweep-paul-bois

I carry those things around in my coat pocket and bags apart from the hand file for work.

I had it in a car... Once, 15 years ago, I was stopped in Italy by police on routine traffic check. Policeman found it and shown it to me with a WTF look.
He had the same one on his hip... After a "what is this ?" I said "the lamp, like the one you have.."
After pointing it out for me that it's a big ass metal torch I replied that it's exactly why I have it. It has big batteries that last long and is robust so it can survive in car being kicked around. He laughed and shrugged saying "true...", handed me lamp an wished good trip.
I guess today that would happen differently..

[james_s]

I had a boss once who was from Germany and she kind of freaked out one day when I was in the office I was trying to remove some tape that was holding a cable and whipped out my little Leatherman keychain multi-tool and used the knife to cut off the tape. She was astonished that I would carry a "weapon" in the office. To this day I cannot really comprehend that reaction and have a really difficult time understanding how someone could view a piddly little 2" utility knife as a weapon rather than a tool. Especially someone who has a sharp pointed pair of 6" scissors on their desk. I've carried a pocket knife since I was around 12, and given the need for a weapon I'm not sure a little knife like that would even cross my mind, more likely I'd grab the nearest heavy object instead as it would be more effective.

[coppercone2]

too many contractors. no one does things themselves, gonna need a contractor to butter bread for you. 

oh man, it needs to be cleaned with ACETONE. We better contract  a skilled chemist. Avoid the paint section in home depot because the DEA is going to throw you in jail for 50 years.

The kinda thing like lets bring in a contractor to fasten one screw

if you do things yourself you end up having dexterity, spacial awareness, planning capabilities, knowhow and tools. i guess upper management is really in the clouds.............. (not to mention the 90th floor).

someone might nick my armani suit.......

main hazard of tools around the office: lubricant getting on clothing thats about 50-2000 times more expensive then necessary. Look out hamburger! machine oils going to one up you!!1

those are the people that end up getting amputations because of shoe strings in machinery (cough every mall.. ok a bit of a stretch) or end up losing pets to elevators. Not to mention old people getting stuck zippers. How about splinters? Those tweezers on swiss army knives sure are useful... better yet lets go to the ER........


The number one hazard of this behavior is that kids are not going to know how to do anything and you will need an absurd amount of specialization to get 'certified' to do certain things (i am looking at you 2000 hour HVAC license). Let's slow down human progress even more with useless narrow specifications, you know so we spend our time fighting bureaucracy rather then natural dangers. Chemistry is up there, all the good chemists from the 70's were doing a bit more dangerous then usual activities when they were kids.. even in high school. Electronics too.. magazine trying to take mains projects out of circulation (how about demystification and enhanced education then banning)... or good engineers that build systems rather then playing with building blocks *cough* arduino *cough*

You had 'rocket boys' back in the 50's.. they wanted a colony on mars by 1980. Saltpetre from the pharmacy, local machine shop making rocket nozzles for you... Now you got people hiding small amounts of chemicals under sheds to make a pop rocket and cowering in fear when ever a siren is heard. Maybe I am romanticizing it a bit, but try talking to a old farmer some time.

Then those kids made a few bangers, blew up a few rockets and it got boring, so they started to study things like complex differential equations relating to nozzles (seeing a fireball over and over gets old.. most people are not like Colin Furze on youtube)... they got good.. and we got good shit because of it. Having a little lab used to be considered nerdy... now its practically 'gangster culture'. Oh man, are you BREAKING BAD because you want to make your own circuit board? God forbid you want to do home gold plating............................ on some chemistry forums its 'cool' to get away with owning a lab after a police visit. Please, spare me the bullshit.


Also, notice how everything older is kinda.. in most cases.. better built and higher quality. It's not just engineering progress, when people actually DID STUFF and interacted with nature they kinda got an idea of what is a bad idea. When you are sitting in an office behind some CAD all day you kinda lose track of realism. Yep mate that wall thickness looks good mate the yield strength is this that (then when you look at it, your like what the fuck).

[apis]

People have been carrying around a small knife since the stone age because it's pretty darn useful. There's a huge difference between a knife that's designed as a tool and a weapon, and everything can be used as a weapon, or as the Hackney Police put it: "a 'butter knife' in the chest will kill as surely as a bayonet".

[magic]

European Convention on Human Rights covers freedom of speech

No way in hell anything produced in Europe would be even remotely as clear-cut as "Congress shall make now law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press".
Surely there are provisions left for fighting terrorism.

lol, british chemical industry will take a HIT in like 15-30 years when all the old chemists that actually like doing chemistry die off. Going to have less skills, less enthusiasm and less creativity (these things won't happen in university or in a company very often).

Nothing that free movement of labor can't solve.

ACETONE

That's actually a terrorist material, if you know how to apply it

These items were found during a #WeaponSweep

These are rookie weapons, behold stuff that actually kills people.

[coppercone2]

you know those middle easterners sure killed lots of romans with terrorist rocks

oddly enough I heard that around castles in antiquity they would send parties out to scavenge and secure stones useful for siege weapons lo, so they have more difficulty finding ammo for trebuchets. I assume of a large diameter.

[coppercone2]

I hope you were being sarcastic about the freedom of movement of labor thing. I am talking about kids messing around to get passionate about something. Usually the best people have a child hood interest. You grow up with a mom and dad that think a 2 inch knife is a military assault weapon and you will want to become a banker or something, not research chemist, rocket scientist, materials engineer, miner...

It's not like suddenly you are gonna turn 18 or whatever and decide "yea im moving to foreign country ______(denmark?, i assume its kinda free, compared to england) and gonna mess around with some rockets and get a degree in aerospace engineer!!. It's kind of a gradual indoctrination. You know, usually you have some cousin or uncle that does a bigger then average 4th of july party with some special materials when your 5 and you kinda start asking some questions, reading the pop literature then you get serious...

[MrMobodies]

ACETONE

That's actually a terrorist material, if you know how to apply it

They could just throw acid in people's faces which seems to be happening a lot in the UK from last year.

[coppercone2]

ACETONE

That's actually a terrorist material, if you know how to apply it

They could just throw acid in people's faces which seems to be happening a lot in the UK from last year.

just wait till they figure out you can break apart cement tiles on the street to get lethal projectiles!!! or progress to 'war club' technology!



Do we want to get these fellas proficient with slings made of old underwear??

hey if you rip that safety padding off of something you can probably shove it down someones throat to suffocate them! this is all absurd. they will literary end up getting 'biblical' on your ass with city construction materials! how about jobs instead of more police and more gangs? Most of those big gangs/mafias started because the law was getting out of hand and people wanted to feel safe.

It's all stupid because this type of legislation is going to get circumvented by the next most primitive technology (those unemployed crooks will think about this problem WAY MORE then some 9-5 burned out office worker legislator). Getting guns off the street from shady characters is one thing. but pliers? TOO FAR.

hey but look on the bright side England, your road crews might actually fix pot holes and cracked sidewalks when people start getting murdered with loose asphalt and concrete! grow some nuts please. for the sake of the human race.


I am waiting for safety forests that can't be used to make poison, clubs, bows, snares or garrotes.

wasent there a whole english comic book series about this kinda thing happening, with some kind of judge on a motor cycle or something???

[apis]

European Convention on Human Rights covers freedom of speech

No way in hell anything produced in Europe would be even remotely as clear-cut as "Congress shall make now law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press".

I find it pretty clear-cut to be honest:

Article 10 – Freedom of expression

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

Surely there are provisions left for fighting terrorism.

Naturally:

2. The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

I'd be surprise if the US didn't have similar fine print somewhere though.

In the end it comes down to if we respect the law or not. As Rick Law put it:

This is where how the citizenry treat The Constitution of a nation matters.
(...)
Elsewhere, their Constitution or their Basic law (as the name may differ) may have similar clauses, but unless it is respected as The Constitution of that nation, it may as well be toilet paper.

[apis]

It's all stupid because this type of legislation is going to get circumvented by the next most primitive technology (those unemployed crooks will think about this problem WAY MORE then some 9-5 burned out office worker legislator). Getting guns off the street from shady characters is one thing. but pliers? TOO FAR.

Yeah. You can limit the amount of guns in circulation since they only really have a single purpose. But common tools like knifes, pliers and screwdrivers (knitting needles )? not a chance. Every kitchen has a set of pretty scary knifes designed to slice meat.

[splin]

ACETONE

That's actually a terrorist material, if you know how to apply it

They could just throw acid in people's faces which seems to be happening a lot in the UK from last year.

just wait till they figure out you can break apart cement tiles on the street to get lethal projectiles!!! or progress to 'war club' technology!



Do we want to get these fellas proficient with slings made of old underwear??

hey if you rip that safety padding off of something you can probably shove it down someones throat to suffocate them! this is all absurd. they will literary end up getting 'biblical' on your ass with city construction materials!

Damn.... By posting the above 'information likely to be of use to a terrorist' you've just put this website off-limits to all UK readers.  By posting this I've provided proof that I've viewed this material so I'll likely be going down for a few years.

On a positive note it will give my voltage references time to stabilise...

[KL27x]

These kinds of laws have been created since the dawn of time. It's one of those laws that is applied when there's a pile of circumstantial evidence but not enough hard evidence.

We have laws on the books against slung shots, which is a rock or a steel ball tied to a string, and the only reason is because it was at one time a weapon used by enemies of the state. In india it is illegal to posses a handkerchief with a coin tied in it, for the same reason. If someone were to be discovered possessing these materials, they would only be prosecuted if there was significant circumstantial evidence.






... like if they were the wrong race! 

[soldar]

No way in hell anything produced in Europe would be even remotely as clear-cut as "Congress shall make now law abridging the freedom of speech or of the press".
Surely there are provisions left for fighting terrorism.

Laws are fine but it is how they are interpreted and applied that matters. In America juries and judges routinely interpret the laws in ways that are inconsistent with their literal meaning. Illegal wiretappings, torture, racism, all have been condoned by the courts.

OTOH, it is true that freedom of expression is interpreted wider in America than in Europe although, also, only up to a point and if they want they will get you on flimsy excuses of "terrorism" or whatever.

I agree that in Europe, in general, "freedom of expression is more limited than in America, no matter what the law says. If you say something unpopular they will get you on grounds of "inciting hatred" or something of the sort.

In Spain it is getting to the point of being ridiculous. You can attack conservative values without limits but those who try to defend them are routinely silence, even by authorities who do not have the authority to do so and are acting "ultra vires".  For instance, a conservative organization, HazteOir (means "let your voice be heard") charters buses with conservative messages painted on the sides. Routinely local authorities will forbid it from circulating even though those local authorities do not have the leagl authority to do so and can only report to a judge and only a judge can stop the bus. But local authorities everywhere forbid the buses from circulating and are supported by mobs of leftists who deface the buses and attack the people in them. The position of the authorities is that the buses are "provoking" the response.

Yeah, they can appeal to the EU court. Good luck with that.

In Spain it is against the law to speak well of the Franco dictatorship or to defend it in any way. It has gotten to the point of being ridiculous, not least because the official story of that time is very distant from what happened in reality. I lived those years and have read much history of those years and yet I have to put up with people who were born yesterday telling me what "really" happened. There is one legal version of history and what I lived is illegal to express.

I suppose it is the same in Germany with respect to the Nazi regime but I see a huge difference. In Germany it is illegal to deny things that are considered by all historians to have happened. In Spain nobody is denying what happened, only putting it in context.

Spanish culture has no tradition of respecting unpopular points of view. I try to explain to people that popular speech does not need protection and it is unpopular speech which needs to be protected by the government. Spanish people do not understand the concept and, no matter what the law may say, there is very little protection of free speech in Spain.

[Ian.M]

The UK population is approximately 5% Muslim.  (Source)
If the authorities want to use this law to go after young radicalised Muslims before they get in deep enough to commit other serious offences, you can expect to see a LOT of ethnically native Brits being investigated under it as statistical cover so the authorities aren't accused of racial or religious profiling.

[apis]

Freedom of expression exist so we can criticise those in power (e.g. whistleblowers) and have a constructive public debate without fear of retribution. It doesn't mean that anything goes. Many countries doesn't allow e.g. child pornography, libel or hate speech. The First Amendment doesn't protect libel in the USA either. Hate speech is just a form of libel against a minority so I don't understand why anyone would think that's more of a problem than libel laws.

Reporters without borders rank many European countries in the top and most EU countries are ranked better than the US.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking

[Berni]

Well if you put water inside any strong container, seal it off and bring it to a boil it results in a an explosion powerful enough to knock down brick walls.

So should we jail anyone who has water?

[StillTrying]

.