US ups the ante against Huawei - Google blocks Huawei's Android updates

[splin]

Interesting times - a significant escalation...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/19/google-huawei-trump-blacklist-report

Google say they are complying with a government order - but perhaps there's also a bit of payback for being frozen out of China? They wouldn't admit that of course.

This will be pretty damaging in the short to medium term for Huawei's smartphone ambitions; in the long term I guess it will be a question of how much, if any, support China/Huawei can muster from other disaffected parties to develop, or at least accept, a commercially competitive Android alternative?

[OwO]

More FUD from the media again 
The android operating system itself is open source and no one can prevent you from using it. At every update Google publicly releases a code dump and it's up to the vendors to integrate their own hardware specific code into it. The body of the article makes it clear that it's Google Play services that is in question here. Huawei phones in China (actually all phones in China) already ship without Google Play so most vendors already have their own alternative "app stores".

[ruffy91]

So Google will loose about 25% of it's customers in europe in the short term.

[ruffy91]

For sure, they would be able to compile the OSS variants of these apps but they are not able to get an API key from google which means they would be useless (Google Maps/Assistant/GMail/Search etc.). Also google will no longer get data by default by the ~20 or more services which phone home to google for Ad customization etc.

This is also intersting for Apple and other corporations which build in china and use chinese parts and now are unsure if they can no longer produce from one day to anotherw without warning. If they are responsible companies some of them will leave the USA because it's too risky staying .

[Bud]

Reader's digest:

Huawei – which has not yet responded to Google’s move – will continue to have access to the version of the Android operating system available through the open source licence that is free to anyone who wishes to use it.

From a BBC article:
". But if Google releases a new version of Android, Huawei won't be able to offer the update on its phones"

[OwO]

From a BBC article:
". But if Google releases a new version of Android, Huawei won't be able to offer the update on its phones"

Only if it stops publishing the code dump releases and effectively close source android.

[Ampera]

To butt in, it would actually be interesting if this were the environment to cause a truly open and configurable mobile operating environment, like what Ubuntu and KDE have been trying (sort of) for years.

It's not going to happen, Android might be too big to fall like that, but I just think it's an interesting potential.

[BravoV]

Meanwhile -> Infineon suspends shipments to Huawei

"....Infineon’s annual sales to Huawei amount to $100 million or less ... "

Curious who will fill those Infineon's hole ? Japanese or Korean ?

[techman-001]

To butt in, it would actually be interesting if this were the environment to cause a truly open and configurable mobile operating environment, like what Ubuntu and KDE have been trying (sort of) for years.

It's not going to happen, Android might be too big to fall like that, but I just think it's an interesting potential.

The old Nokia achieved something like that with their N9 running Maemo, I know I have two of them and one is my main cellphone.

SSHing into it, SCPing files etc is a breeze because it looks just like a Linux box inside, unlike Android which has no ssh or scp as standard.

[magic]

If you can access them in incognito mode, then you have a way to trick the service to think you are not an App but a browser instance.

Banning Huawei from having access simply means Google will have to process much more data from a less efficient HTML request than a highly efficient API request.

And Google could ban them completely. And they could play whack-a-mole changing user agent strings as Google blocks them and Google could change the website design to break their parsers and their apps would randomly work or not and nobody would be using them anymore.
It's pointless to even try such games.

[soldar]

The US market share of smartphones is less than 10% and shrinking whereas China has 29% and growing.

China has three times the market all by itself and the rest of Asia is huge and growing. I do not think Google (America) can force the world market to use Android by force but by being convincing.  If push comes to shove I do not think Google will come out on top.

Code: [Select]

Country     millions            share
China . . . .  782.8  . . . . . . 28.8%
India . . . .  374.9  . . . . . . 13.8%
United States  251.7  . . . . . .  9.2%
Russian Fed. .  91.9  . . . . . .  3.4%
Brazil . . . .  87.2  . . . . . .  3.2%
Indonesia . . . 73.2  . . . . . .  2.7%
Japan . . . . . 70.3  . . . . . .  2.6%
Germany . . . . 64.8  . . . . . .  2.4%
Mexico  . . . . 59.6  . . . . . .  2.2%
United Kingdom  54.7  . . . . . .  2.0%
France  . . . . 49.6  . . . . . .  1.8%
Philippines . . 47.9  . . . . . .  1.8%
Vietnam . . . . 36.4  . . . . . .  1.3%
South Korea . . 34.6  . . . . . .  1.3%
Italy . . . . . 34.4  . . . . . .  1.3%
Spain . . . . . 33.6  . . . . . .  1.2%
Turkey. . . . . 31.1  . . . . . .  1.1%
Thailand  . . . 30.2  . . . . . .  1.1%
Iran  . . . . . 28.7  . . . . . .  1.1%
Egypt  . . . .  27.9  . . . . . .  1.0%
Pakistan . . .  27.7  . . . . . .  1.0%
Bangladesh . .  26.8  . . . . . .  1.0%
Canada . . . .  26.6  . . . . . .  1.0%

https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-50-countries-by-smartphone-penetration-and-users/


[taydin]

Google say they are complying with a government order - but perhaps there's also a bit of payback for being frozen out of China? They wouldn't admit that of course.

Google IS the government. Just like all social media platforms and intelligence agencies, its purpose is to track and gather intelligence. Or did you think that all of those insane server farms can be financed with just advertising revenue 

If you KISS, you will conclude that this is just USA's new move in the trade war with China.

[soldar]

I believe the only American brand in the top ten smartphone brands is Apple which is, of course, outside this war.

Pretty much the whole world is in disagreement with the US in this commercial war. I cannot imagine why anyone would think it is a good idea.

If push comes to shove the manufacturers could start a software consortium to develop their own brand of OS.

[taydin]

But why? Google only needs to comply with DOC BIS, it doesn't mean Google wants to ban Huawei and lose Android market.

Google will ALWAYS do what the government tells it to do. There might be some staged theatrics and controversy, but in the end, Google will do as it is told, even if it means losing revenue or market share.

[soldar]

Google will ALWAYS do what the government tells it to do. There might be some staged theatrics and controversy, but in the end, Google will do as it is told, even if it means losing revenue or market share.

I do not think it is that simple. Google will do what the government tells them. Obviously. But the government also knows big business, which includes Google, has a lot of money and power and can lobby very strongly. So, in a way, Google tells the government what it should tell Google.

And some might find this completely negative but I find distributed power is better. So let corporations have some power over the government and the government some power over the corporations. Checks and balances.

[taydin]

I do not think it is that simple. Google will do what the government tells them. Obviously. But the government also knows big business, which includes Google, has a lot of money and power and can lobby very strongly. So, in a way, Google tells the government what it should tell Google.

And some might find this completely negative but I find distributed power is better. So let corporations have some power over the government and the government some power over the corporations. Checks and balances.

My point is that Google's actions in this case are not based on corporate or business strategy. They are based on politics. USA is losing global influence, and China is gaining global influence, and we are seeing USA's attempts to hamper it or at least slow it down.

[apis]

Google IS the government. Just like all social media platforms and intelligence agencies, its purpose is to track and gather intelligence. Or did you think that all of those insane server farms can be financed with just advertising revenue 

Nonsense, servers are cheap. They will share all their data with the government if asked, possibly reluctantly, but all companies follow the law of the land. They do the same when operating in China of course. But they certainly make enough money to pay for their server farms on their own. Or are you suggesting that Dave is also a gov. shill? Or do you think his web server is financed with advertising revenue?

[madires]

This whole mess caused by Trump will backfire. Huawei's 5G R&D is two years ahead of the other vendors and they own a ton of 5G patents. And since US companies are barred from doing business with Huawei they can't license Huawei's 5G patents. Oopsie!

[BravoV]

This whole mess caused by Trump will backfire. Huawei's 5G R&D is two years ahead of the other vendors and they own a ton of 5G patents. And since US companies are barred from doing business with Huawei they can't license Huawei's 5G patents. Oopsie!

The Huawei's contant harassments and bullies by US, is actually to disrupt it's 5G global market penetration, for US and allies to catch up.

But even UK wants Huawei despite being commanded not to by King Trump. 

[taydin]

Nonsense, servers are cheap. They will share all their data with the government if asked, possibly reluctantly, but all companies follow the law of the land. They do the same when operating in China of course. But they certainly make enough money to pay for their server farms on their own. Or are you suggesting that Dave is also a gov. shill? Or do you think his web server is financed with advertising revenue?

I'm not suggesting anything about Dave.

Regarding Google, though, Google is not like any other high tech company. And you won't find any "smoking gun" type of evidence for my assertion that Google is a "tracking and intelligence gathering operation" working for the state. Intel organizations typically don't leave such proof around  You basically see many pieces of a puzzle and eventually a picture starts to form ...

[maginnovision]

Nonsense, servers are cheap. They will share all their data with the government if asked, possibly reluctantly, but all companies follow the law of the land. They do the same when operating in China of course. But they certainly make enough money to pay for their server farms on their own. Or are you suggesting that Dave is also a gov. shill? Or do you think his web server is financed with advertising revenue?

I'm not suggesting anything about Dave.

Regarding Google, though, Google is not like any other high tech company. And you won't find any "smoking gun" type of evidence for my assertion that Google is a "tracking and intelligence gathering operation" working for the state. Intel organizations typically don't leave such proof around  You basically see many pieces of a puzzle and eventually a picture starts to form ...

 

[soldar]

Google's web services are banned in China, so no Youtube, no search, no GDrive, no GSuite, no nothing.

I have never had much problem getting around the Great Firewall. I guess they just make it not worth the while for the average Chinese.

An interesting case which had me confucious for a while is that maps in China are distorted and considered of national security importance. For some time I was not understanding why my hand-held Garmin GPS coordinates were not aligning with the maps. Then I discovered the whole mess that Chinese maps are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China
https://geoawesomeness.com/china-messing-gps-coordinates/
https://www.alpinequest.net/en/help/v2/maps/china-offset
https://www.checkerboardhill.com/2016/10/google-map-distortion-hong-kong-china-border/

In fact it was illegal for me to have my GPS receiver with me.

It seems to me this is a holdover from decades ago and makes absolutely no sense today except that they would have to undo the mess they made and this might make a bigger mess.

I know I could use Google Earth in China without problem but now I ask myself if I was being redirected to local Google Earth servers with the distorted information.

In these days of satellite ortophotography and Google Earth it is plain stupid to obfuscate your maps.

But, interestingly AFAIK Google Earth still works in China although few people know it use it there as there are other map apps with better local info.

[soldar]

Thought you mean confused.

Thought if anyone would get the joke it would be you.

[Homer J Simpson]

"Microchips, massive blow: Huawei's vulnerability explained"


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48345509

[OwO]

The P30 Pro’s RF transceivers (1) and audio chip (4, below) are made by HiSilicon, a China-based company wholly owned by Huawei - but that’s where the homegrown tech ends.

The chip’s front end module (2) - which makes it able to engage with mobile network signals - is designed and manufactured by Skyworks, a semiconductor firm based in Massachusetts, USA, that falls under the US restrictions.

An additional front end module (3) to handle different radio frequencies is made by Qorvo, a semiconductor firm headquartered in Greensboro, North Carolina. It is also affected by the ban.

The RF frontend chip (2) is an integrated PA and LNA, it's fairly old technology and wouldn't be hard to replicate. If they are able to design the rest of the transceiver then this part is the least of their worries.

Not sure what (3) is, but it might be a diplexer/SAW filter. These are predominantly made by the Japanese, the US is not a big player here. I'm also already seeing Chinese SAW filters on LCSC with better specs than the common ones on the western distributors, so probably not a big deal either. I have already started using Chinese SAW filters in my designs and am aiming to replace all US based RF parts in the future.