Welcome back Win7

[CJay]

After 'struggling' with Win 10 on a machine for a few months (I need to know about it for work) I've finally given up and activated the recovery partition to reinstall Windows 7.

The final straw was spending an hour and failing to get an RTL SDR dongle to work.

After Win7 'dies' I will be running Linux and maybe maintaining a legacy Windows box to support old software so, other than the Ubuntu distributions, which Linux desktop distro would you recommend and why?

[stj]

distro choice depends on your skills.

if your not a master, Mageia is very good.

if your a master & need the very latest packages then use Debian.
(debian lacks a lot of graphic configuration tools, you have to edit the config files from a terminal)

i run both btw.

[rob77]

for desktop definitely ubuntu - provides the best user experience for the "average joe" - everything is prepared and works out of the box.
for servers my personal preference is debian stable, second would be centos

[ovnr]

If there's still time, I'd recommend MacOS. I can argue with anyone that a mac computer is cheaper (money wise) than any windows based PC.

 

[rob77]

If there's still time, I'd recommend MacOS. I can argue with anyone that a mac computer is cheaper (money wise) than any windows based PC.

please show me...

so my requirements.. cheap plastic case laptop with windows OS running - just enough to get the job done. it will be used in a environment where it will be constantly "beaten" so not expecting a lifetime longer than 12-18 months. i can have such a windows based laptop for approx 350-450 Euro. please come up with your cheaper (money wise) alternative from the half-eaten fruit

[sam1275]

I tried Win10 for 2 weeks, cannot bear it then and change back to Win7.
It's just a unfinished rubbish with "funny" UI, tons of bugs and spyware.
I'm still using windows server 2003 and Posready 2009 on some machine, no problems.
If win7 ends life, I may continue using it, just with a good AV you'll be fine.
For Linux, I recommend CentOS, it's very stable and flexible, and use low resources. But for beginners, the most common ones such as Ubuntu or Debian maybe better, because they have much bigger forum and more packages.

[george graves]

Yea, I happy with win 7 as well.  Actually Win NT 4.0 was the most stable OS I've ever used.  Had a few of them running Avid editing rigs that would often run over night rendering, and then never get rebooted in the morning, or the next, or the next.  Heck a week would go by and it was still rock solid.  Windows 7 is almost as good, but drivers seem to fail more then the OS does....Anyways.

I often fine the OS debate funny, cause no one ever paid anyone for a job just cause the OS they are running.  It's what you get done with the end software that is key.  Most software these days are function-to-function identical across platforms.

for desktop definitely ubuntu - provides the best user experience for the "average joe" - everything is prepared and works out of the box.

It *almost* works for the average Joe. But the second you have to sodo anything, that all goes to crap. I love the idea of something like ubuntu, that I can just install or side boot to and get work done, but it never works out that way.

If the ubuntu folks (and alike) really wanted to challenge MS and Apple, they could. But that would mean giving up the command line - and they won't ever do that. It's written by nerds, for nerds.  And giving up sudo would mean they aren't nerds anymore....or something. I honestly don't know what their deal is, but for some reason, want to hang on to somethings just to keep it an exclusive club. My 2 cents.

[rdl]

The easiest I've used is Linux Mint/Cinnamon. The only bad thing is that snot green color that is everywhere. They made the colors easier to change in 18, but that version has been unstable for me. I continue to use 17.

Cannonical smells to me like the Microsoft of the Linux world, so I avoid them.

I have Debian on one machine and overall I like it the best. It's not quite as easy to use as Mint.

[CJay]

I often fine the OS debate funny, cause no one ever paid anyone for a job just cause the OS they are running.  It's what you get done with the end software that is key.  Most software these days are function-to-function identical across platforms.

When you're expected to support users who are using Win 10 though it's beneficial to know how the OS works which is why Win 10 happened, I pity anyone who has to use it for anything serious.

Other than that, I totally agree, I can program (badly), I can remote into servers and remote desktops and many many other tasks from any other OS so I can be fairly flexible with my OS choice.

It won't hurt to keep my Win skills up to date so it'll need to dual boot, Ubuntu is a current Linux favourite as log as I can still rerrange the close, minimise and maximise buttons to a sensible place.

As for Macs, yes, very pretty, lovely OS.

Hardly cheap though when you consider the enforced obsolescence of the platform.

Might buy some if I win the lottery.

[rob77]

I could go on and on, but if you think about this seriously a Mac is much cheaper than a PC. 

thanks i was just curious how severely infected you are aren't you a apple sales man ?

[ovnr]

On the "Macs are bettar!" bandwagon: If you're not incompetent, a PC will work reliably and without issue. There is no "30 minutes of updates in the morning" or any of the other issues you find so dreadful. It just Works (tm). Sure, if you're a complete moron and click on anything that moves, you will have issues.

As for the "free software, yay!": Libre Office is free, you can get the community edition (or whatever it is) of Visual Studio for free, MSE antivirus is free (and I arguably don't need AV; in the 5+ years I've run my current computer, I haven't had a single virus scare). Etc. As for video/audio editing, I wouldn't know because it doesn't interest me.

Also, the top-of-the-line Mac Pro is $4000. Just for the dustbin. My $2500 desktop - most of which is close to 5 years old - is faster in most tasks (and substantially faster in some on account of having some proper GPU horsepower), likely quieter, and doesn't end up being used as an ashtray by accident.


On the topic: Yes, Win10 is completely horrid. I'm in the same position; I'll run Win7 until it's no longer workable, then switch to Linux for everyday tasks. I might end up running ESXi on the bare metal, with a Linux VM for most tasks + a Win10 (or whatever it'll be by then) VM side by side for gaming.

I just wish MS would stop actively working to make every single product they have worse. But hey, manglement happens.

[CJay]

Totally did not want this thread to turn into a fanboi flame fest but I will not be going for a Mac now or any time in the future and suffer none of the supposed windows hangups you list and could refute most if not all of your claims about backup, cost of software etc. and still prove a new PC is cheaper than a comaprable Mac, I've been around the PC/Mac game for a shade under 30 years and have seen all the arguments, Macs are excellent if you have some rather specific needs, other than that, they're expensive eye candy and, if you really want to play, I'll dig out the antivirus disks I have kicking around that were for the Quadra machines one of our local TV stations had back in the 80's.

Just because nobody talks about Mac exploits doesn't mean there aren't any.

My Wintel environment with Win 7 suits my needs for now and the foreseeable future, at some point I will migrate to Linux and to that end I'm prepping a machine for a Linux install tomorrow.

[GreyWoolfe]

I have 3 2010 vintage HP Z210 SFF workstations here at the house.  2 are test computers for repairing company equipment and 1 is my personal computer-8 gig of ram, dual core processor Win10 64 bit and the computer basically runs 24/7 with no issues.  Maybe I am a doofus, but I like Win10 and also run it on my Dell I5 laptop of about the same vintage with no issues.  My 'inferior to MAC' Windows machines do what I need them to do when I need them to do it.  At my age, I don't have the patience to learn another OS, though someday, when the company test computers reach EOL, I might try Linux on one of them, we will see.  They will probably be around 9 years old by then, 4 years past death as some would state but will be more than adequate for Linux learning.  By the way, I don't like Kool-Aide.

[elgonzo]

[...]
I could go on and on, but if you think about this seriously a Mac is much cheaper than a PC. I'm of course referring to a computer that you use daily for work, not a PC tied to a GPIB instrument that does only one task.

Brilliant. I hope you have nothing against me using your way of argumentation as a template to explain to the next guy that in reality a Ferrari 488 is cheaper than a Fiat Punto. (Not that i want to compare Macs with Ferrari and PCs with Fiat, but hey, if you like then feel inspired by my comment...) 

Oh by the way, i still use a Acer TravelMate 8006LMi from the year 2004. I guess it secretly is a Mac, otherwise it would not have lasted that long, right?

[CJay]

Totally did not want this thread to turn into a fanboi flame fest

Never any doubt in my mind this would happen. You should have know better too. Your post count is high enough.

Probably should have, I didn't expect the Mac contingent to show up as I thought I'd been explicit enough that Windows/Linux were my options.

[rdl]

I'm not convinced that Windows 7 will ever "die". The recent changes Microsoft made to the update system has me wondering if their ultimate goal may be selling update subscriptions beyond the point in time when extended support ends.

[PartialDischarge]

I could go on and on, but if you think about this seriously a Mac is much cheaper than a PC. 

thanks i was just curious how severely infected you are aren't you a apple sales man ?

You're as curious as I was about your inability to think 

[madires]

First of all the lifetime of an everyday use office PC (not an isolated PC connected to a machine) seldom reaches 5 years. I'm writing this in a 2011 Macbook Pro that still kicks ass and runs programs faster than other workers newer PCs, and I'm not even planning on buying another one anytime soon. I can even mention the 27" imac at home that could last easily 15 years total. So while I can spread those costs in a lets say 8 year span, a PC will only have lets say 4 years time.

The 4 years lifetime apply to cheap office PCs. For my data center @ home I've build EUR 500 PCs running 24x7. The last PCs I've decommissioned were 8 years old and are still fine. Selection of good hardware and some preventive maintenance helps a lot. Comparing a PC to an iMac with integrated screen isn't that simply. I doubt that the iMac will be usable after 10 years. And if the screen breaks, you can't simply go to next best shop and get a new TFT. You have to add a lot more for a TCO calculation.

[madires]

I'm not convinced that Windows 7 will ever "die". The recent changes Microsoft made to the update system has me wondering if their ultimate goal may be selling update subscriptions beyond the point in time when extended support ends.

It will, in 2020 for average Joe. From what I understand, MS is creating a "windroid".

[Sal Ammoniac]

If there's still time, I'd recommend MacOS.

I wouldn't. I've had more kernel panics and hangs requiring a power cycle on my MacOS X machines than I've had with any recent version of Windows. I haven't had a BSOD on a Windows box in nearly a decade. MacOS X, on the other hand, has been an unstable pile of crap. The last reasonably stable release was Snow Leopard.

[WaveyDipole]

Regarding anti-virus software, viruses and anti-virus software have existed for the Mac since the 1990's. Viruses on the Linux platform also exist. There are far fewer of them to be sure, but I would not go so far as to say you don't need anti-virus software.

Regarding Windows 10, I am in the same boat. Win10 seems to work fine on my laptop but has been problematic on my main PC, a 4 core i7. I have been considering alternatives and have played with OSX which is a nice OS, but I wouldn't buy an iMac or MacBook Air to replace my main PC and I can't afford the Pro machines. The other alternative that has already been mentioned is Linux. I use Kali at work so I am familiar with Linux, but Kali is rather specialised. For a general purpose OS I am considering having a look at Mint. I looked at Ubuntu a while back and really hated the Unity interface, although I expect it probably works OK on a touchscreen, however I will be giving Ubuntu a miss.

[PartialDischarge]

Totally did not want this thread to turn into a fanboi flame fest

Never any doubt in my mind this would happen. You should have know better too. Your post count is high enough.

Probably should have, I didn't expect the Mac contingent to show up as I thought I'd been explicit enough that Windows/Linux were my options.

I'm really really sorry for the problems that me, the Mac contingent, have created in this thread. Wont happen again

[linux-works]

same here - mint all the way.  ubuntu is for those that don't know any better (oddly, two companies I work/worked for both used ubuntu and both didn't know about the spyware and crap in ubuntu).

mint is ubuntu minus the crap.

it also installed flawlessly on latest skylake cpus with EFI bios.  surprised me, in fact.  memtest86 won't run on efi systems (dammit) but linux has managed to figure it out.

The easiest I've used is Linux Mint/Cinnamon. The only bad thing is that snot green color that is everywhere. They made the colors easier to change in 18, but that version has been unstable for me. I continue to use 17.

Cannonical smells to me like the Microsoft of the Linux world, so I avoid them.

I have Debian on one machine and overall I like it the best. It's not quite as easy to use as Mint.

[free_electron]

If there's still time, I'd recommend MacOS. I can argue with anyone that a mac computer is cheaper (money wise) than any windows based PC.

Argue .. Yes.  win that argument ? No .

To begin : where do i put my PCI GPIB card in this fabled Mac computer ? or my PCI-express Multi-Io card ? and where am i going to find drivers for those things to run on Mac OS ?
Last time i checked Mac's don't even have PCI or PCIX ports ...

[CJay]

I'm really really sorry for the problems that me, the Mac contingent, have created in this thread. Wont happen again

And i didn't mean to cause offence either, Macs are just not on my radar for too many reasons to list here but they are excellent machines, just not for me.