What do you do when an interviewer asks a question you do not know?

[Mattjd]

Suppose you're an ECE (Electrical Computer Engineering) and you're in an interview for an engineering job. It has to do with autonomous quad-copters. The interviewer asks you to fill out a stress-strain curve, just label the points of interests. You've seen stress-strain curves before, know that the slope is young's modulus, but everything you know is really superficial and don't know anything about it really. Would you:

1.) Bullshit and try to fill it out
2.) Cut to the chase and say you are out of your domain, admit that you have no idea what you are doing with this.

A friend of mine recently had an interview with a company. She's an ECE in undergrad. She's currently in between classes due to personal reasons but she's still looking for jobs to fill her time. She's got a lot of project design in this area so its not out of her ballpark. She told me this happened to her and it got me thinking what I would do in that situation.

At first thought I learn towards #2 , but I would like to ask others what you would do with those choices, or possible alternatives.

[grouchobyte]

Reply:

What does have to do with designing a bidet? Is this the interview for Ceramics International job? Oops.

Then say, I have no clue what you are asking me, but I can assure you I know how to find out and that is the difference between me and any other candidate you may ask this qustion to. I am an extremely fast study and can solve anything given an opportunity and that makes me a perfect fit for this position. Dont you think?

@grouchobyte

[bd139]

Honesty is the best policy here. There's always the option of saying you don't know the answer but give me a few minutes and I can find it out.

I rarely enter a job or task knowing enough to do it. Filling in the gaps quickly and correctly is more important.

[Mjolinor]

Have to wonder why someone in Early Childhood Education would be asked questions about Youngs modulus.

Talking in abbreviations just transfers the work from the poster to lots of readers.

[Kire Pûdsje]

In principle always #2. However also explain even though it is out of your domain what your approach would be.
Applicants that choose the #1 approach are always funny during job interviews, as the hole they are digging in an interview is getting deeper and deeper. Especially for this reason, one of our tactics in general is to always ask one of these questions during a job interview, to see which way the applicant chooses.

On the other hand, for bigger companies, with a big managment layer, the higher up the interview, #1 might help. A manager searches a person that will solve his problems. He is not interested in hearing about issues. (Sorry just some personal experience).

[Mr. Scram]

Honesty is the best policy here. There's always the option of saying you don't know the answer but give me a few minutes and I can find it out.

I rarely enter a job or task knowing enough to do it. Filling in the gaps quickly and correctly is more important.

Yes, this. It's rare for someone to fit the bill exactly. If someone does, they're probably too expensive to hire.

It's probably a filter question, to weed out the inept. Just make sure you show your competence in another area.

[Mattjd]

Have to wonder why someone in Early Childhood Education would be asked questions about Youngs modulus.

Talking in abbreviations just transfers the work from the poster to lots of readers.

sorry, I presumed it was unknown due to context. I fixed it.

[Mjolinor]

Have to wonder why someone in Early Childhood Education would be asked questions about Youngs modulus.

Talking in abbreviations just transfers the work from the poster to lots of readers.

sorry, I presumed it was unknown due to context. I fixed it.

It's a personal hate of mine and for future reference I have turned people down for jobs at interview when they do it.

It is the realm of marketing and sales because they perceive it to be "cool" and they usually fall over when pulled up on it.

[brucehoult]

Absolutely, say immediately that you are familiar with the concept (if you are!) but rusty on the details, and where and how you would research/refresh: books, web site, search terms, whatever.

No one knows everything.

In my current job I think I answered that I was unsure or didn't know to almost every interview question! Currently three years and counting as the highest pay grade person in the department, and with the best scores in on the job internal competency testing.

[Mattjd]

Have to wonder why someone in Early Childhood Education would be asked questions about Youngs modulus.

Talking in abbreviations just transfers the work from the poster to lots of readers.

sorry, I presumed it was unknown due to context. I fixed it.

It's a personal hate of mine and for future reference I have turned people down for jobs at interview when they do it.

It is the realm of marketing and sales because they perceive it to be "cool" and they usually fall over when pulled up on it.

good to know.

[Mattjd]

In principle always #2. However also explain even though it is out of your domain what your approach would be.
Applicants that choose the #1 approach are always funny during job interviews, as the hole they are digging in an interview is getting deeper and deeper. Especially for this reason, one of our tactics in general is to always ask one of these questions during a job interview, to see which way the applicant chooses.

On the other hand, for bigger companies, with a big managment layer, the higher up the interview, #1 might help. A manager searches a person that will solve his problems. He is not interested in hearing about issues. (Sorry just some personal experience).

Yeah, gut instinct says a superior would be happier that employee(x) admits to what they do not know, so they can find someone that does. I'd imagine a superior would be a lot more mad if employee(x) takes on a task and fails (or doesn't get done fast enough) because they lied about their knowledge.

However, I see what you are saying about the upper management thing.

[tggzzz]

Virtually any interesting job, and certainly any job that will advance your career, will contain many things you don't know. At the very least you will have to get up to speed with the generic technology and specific uses of the technology that are part of the job in the new company.

Hence questions about topics you don't know are a way of finding out how you will behave if you join the company.

1.) Bullshit and try to fill it out
2.) Cut to the chase and say you are out of your domain, admit that you have no idea what you are doing with this

If you do 1, then I wouldn't offer you the job, because I would never ever know whether you were telling the truth or bullshitting.

If you do 2 and that's all, then it looks like you are only competent to repeat things you have already done - which is only relevant in a different company!

OTOH, if you say you don't know, indicate how you would find out, and offer sensible speculations with reasons for those speculations, then you look like you would be able to fit in and thrive.

[rstofer]

If you already knew how to do every aspect of a job for which you are interviewing, you are overqualified and will be bored out of your mind.  What is the point of taking a job that offers no growth in knowledge and experience?  Just money?  OK, but keep looking for a better job...

So, tell the truth.  Tell the interviewer you are aware of the topic but don't recall the details.  Then tell them how you are going to find the answer.  Extra credit if you already have the books.

There will be one or more topics in any interview that you simply won't know much about.  So what?  Just tell it like it is and see how it works out.

BTW, the employer who hires somebody who already knows all of the material is making a huge mistake.  The employee will only stay until a better job opens up because there seems to be no growth.

Silicon Valley works like that!  You get a new job by turning in the wrong driveway in the morning.

[EEVblog]

2.) Cut to the chase and say you are out of your domain, admit that you have no idea what you are doing with this.

Never ever say it's "out of your domain", say anything else like you don't know off-hand but can find out.
Mention anything you know like Young's modulus etc but don't bury yourself in a hole you don't know how to get out of.
Generally at an interview they will ask at least one question that most people will not be expected to know, so it's how you react to it that counts.

[sokoloff]

2.) Cut to the chase and say you are out of your domain, admit that you have no idea what you are doing with this.

Never ever say it's "out of your domain", say anything else like you don't know off-hand but can find out.
Mention anything you know like Young's modulus etc but don't bury yourself in a hole you don't know how to get out of.
Generally at an interview they will ask at least one question that most people will not be expected to know, so it's how you react to it that counts.

Basically this. There's nothing wrong with not knowing a particular fact, especially provided you can identify you don't know it, name the fact, and convince me that you can get there with 10 minutes of Googling.

If I come across a know-it-all in an interview, I will sometimes ask increasingly detailed and esoteric questions with the specific aim of figuring out whether this candidate, under the pressure of an interview, can admit in their own words, "I don't know". If they never get there (but it's obvious to me that they don't know), it's pretty much a an absolute block to hiring them.

I don't need you to know everything. I need you to be figure stuff out. Yes, I probably need you to know the basics, but for a electrical/computer engineer to not be able to label all the salient features in a stress-strain curve is no problem at all. Just tell me you don't know, but that here's how you'd approach finding out: ...

[tpowell1830]

Suppose you're an ECE (Electrical Computer Engineering) and you're in an interview for an engineering job. It has to do with autonomous quad-copters. The interviewer asks you to fill out a stress-strain curve, just label the points of interests. You've seen stress-strain curves before, know that the slope is young's modulus, but everything you know is really superficial and don't know anything about it really. Would you:

1.) Bullshit and try to fill it out
2.) Cut to the chase and say you are out of your domain, admit that you have no idea what you are doing with this.

A friend of mine recently had an interview with a company. She's an ECE in undergrad. She's currently in between classes due to personal reasons but she's still looking for jobs to fill her time. She's got a lot of project design in this area so its not out of her ballpark. She told me this happened to her and it got me thinking what I would do in that situation.

At first thought I learn towards #2 , but I would like to ask others what you would do with those choices, or possible alternatives.

In my experience, (which I am old and have had many interviews), I would say something like "I am an Electrical Computing Engineer, this is a bit out of my normal path, but, if I need to get to the answer in my daily work, I would:
        A. Find the relevant engineer expert (focal) in this field in the office to point me in the right direction, or,
        B. Search all of my reference books for an answer, or,
        C. Search online for the answer, or,
        D. Phone a friend who may have relevant experience or know someone that can help.
Whichever other way that is necessary to get my answer for this particular problem, I will find it."

[ejeffrey]

Absolutely, say immediately that you are familiar with the concept (if you are!) but rusty on the details, and where and how you would research/refresh: books, web site, search terms, whatever.

No one knows everything.

This.  When I interview someone, thing I might be looking for are:

1) Verifying that your CV isn't BS.  If you describe a project that involves using FEA to calculate loading limits for some mechanical structure, you better be able to label the elastic limit on a stress-strain curve.
2) Breadth of knowledge.  Nobody knows everything, but I am interested to see if you have skills or knowledge beyond your specialty.  There are all sorts of applications where an electronics engineer might need familiarity with mechanical engineering topics even if you aren't an expert.  If you don't know a particular topic, thats fine. Depending on my goal and the question, I will either move on, or try to work with you to see if you can reason out the answer.
3) How you handle something you are unfamiliar with.  An honest explanation of what you do know, and an accurate assessment of your own limitations is what I would like to see here.  For instance, if you said "I know the slope of the straight part is the youngs modulus, and beyond that it is no longer a linear spring, but I don't know the details of the behavior beyond there" would be a good answer.

With #3, I don't hold it against someone too much if they say something wrong.  An interview is a high pressure situation, and interviewing is a skill that a lot of people don't have.  That doesn't necessarily reflect on their ability as an engineer.

The only really bad answer is anything that sounds like "I don't need to know that to do my job" or "I'm an EE not an ME/CE/CS/etc."  That pretty much immediately disqualify you.

I am sure someone could bullshit me successfully on some topics, but it is pretty risky.  If you use a phrase like "yield strength" or "work harden", I will likely ask you to explain what those terms mean.  If you are just throwing out phrases that you don't understand, you may well get caught.  Again, I try to be sensitive to people who are just nervous, but if it seems like you are deliberately bullshitting I am not going to be impressed.

[joeqsmith]

Honesty is the best policy here.

Agree. 

[onesixright]

1. Say you don't know the answer

2. Explain how you would approach solving this

On a side note:
IMO, many people like to pass problems to their superiors, but lack the will to also come-up with a potential solution(s). You, are much more use-full if you don't only address problems, but also contribute to potential solutions.

[RoGeorge]

You've seen stress-strain curves before, know that the slope is young's modulus, but everything you know is really superficial

That's exactly what you should say. Your words exactly ^^

Any lie/bullshiting, or avoiding the question, or aggressive "cut the bullshit" answer will only sink your chances.

[VEGETA]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

[Howardlong]

Bullshitting is the worst possible way to address this. Admission that you don't immediately have an answer isn't anywhere near as negative as pretending that you do.

On the other side of the coin, I had an interview for a consultant role for a greenfield system some years ago, and they were probing my technical skills. On one particular technical point I could see they had misunderstood something fairly fundamental to their project, presumably by being misled by some pre-sales individual. In this case, after about twenty minutes of discussion, white board and all, I found myself having to stand my ground as diplomatically as I could (e.g., "That's not quite my understanding of how it works, I believe it's like this..."), certain that I'd blown it.

I then didn't hear anything for a couple of weeks, and assumed it was a lost cause. Then out of the blue, they asked me when I could start. In this case they went back to check with the vendor, this time asking the right questions, and discovered that I was indeed right. Ten years later, I still do a several weeks/year project consultancy for them.

[onesixright]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

Lemme think, the last time I counted roughly xyz (with a big smile). And pull the number from where the sun doesn't shine ... 

[Howardlong]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

I'd need more information around the context of the question to give a more effective answer.

Furthermore, smart arse trick questions like these which put the interviewee under unrealistic, unnecessary and undue pressure simply indicate to me they're not a particularly nice place to work in, and have too much time on their hands not doing real work. Can you imagine how intrusive and overbearing their HR dept is likely to be in your daily working life? No thanks!

[Mjolinor]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

I'd need more information around the context of the question to give a more effective answer.

Furthermore, smart arse trick questions like these which put the interviewee under unrealistic, unnecessary and undue pressure simply indicate to me they're not a particularly nice place to work in, and have too much time on their hands not doing real work. Can you imagine how intrusive and overbearing their HR dept is likely to be in your daily working life? No thanks!

True. It is always good to remember that you are interviewing them as well as the other way round.

[RoGeorge]

The "how many cows" type of question is OK.

For an engineering job, the expected answer will be to show how you estimate something when very little information is known.
The result can be a number and an error range, the error range can be a few orders of magnitude big.

It's not about numbers, but how you get to those numbers.

[brucehoult]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

It's an excellent question. Estimation.

For example:

How many people are in Canada? More than Australia I think .. 30 million?
How much milk does each person use? Hmm .. maybe a litre a week. 50 litres a year.
How much milk does a cow produce? Let's say 10000 litres a year.

3e7 * 5e1 / 1e4 = 35e4

350,000 cows to produce milk. Neglecting imports and exports.

You also need some more to produce butter, cheese etc. And meat. Let's triple it and say one million even.

You're not going to get an exact answer this way, but I bet it's the right order of magnitude.

[glarsson]

My estimation was 5M based on comparison with Sweden. Defining cows as beef cows and milk cows (ignoring oxen, calfs, etc) the official numbet seems to be just below 5M for Canada.

[brucehoult]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

I'd need more information around the context of the question to give a more effective answer.

Furthermore, smart arse trick questions like these which put the interviewee under unrealistic, unnecessary and undue pressure simply indicate to me they're not a particularly nice place to work in, and have too much time on their hands not doing real work. Can you imagine how intrusive and overbearing their HR dept is likely to be in your daily working life? No thanks!

I totally disagree!!

Nothing trick here. The ability to quickly do an order or magnitude estimation is vital to any good engineer or programmer to know if something is even worth trying, to notice someone is bullshitting you etc.

You're not expected to get the right answer to 3 decimal places! Getting the correct exponent is probably enough, and within a factor of two is perfection.

My favourite to ask a candidate who claims knowledge of high school physics, but I've never seen anywhere as a question: What is the mass of the Earth's atmosphere?

You only need to know two physical constants and one math formula (maybe two related ones) to get this right to within 10% or so. I'll even prompt you with their values if you at least figure out which ones you need but can't remember them.

[Mr. Scram]

It's an excellent question. Estimation.

For example:

How many people are in Canada? More than Australia I think .. 30 million?
How much milk does each person use? Hmm .. maybe a litre a week. 50 litres a year.
How much milk does a cow produce? Let's say 10000 litres a year.

3e7 * 5e1 / 1e4 = 35e4

350,000 cows to produce milk. Neglecting imports and exports.

You also need some more to produce butter, cheese etc. And meat. Let's triple it and say one million even.

You're not going to get an exact answer this way, but I bet it's the right order of magnitude.

Import and export are important, as some countries vastly overproduce and others do the opposite.

It's not whether your answer is correct though, it's how you approach the question. Even a totally wrong result can be right.

[tggzzz]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

It is a reasonable question for the reasons others have given. But it is the type of question an HR-droid or technically non-competent manager might ask.

For that reason I would prefer a more engineering specific question such as "A manufacturer of toy cars for children approaches us and asks us to design traffic lights controllers, so that the model roads are more realistic. How would you proceed?".

I would want to see a the client ask questions to elicit a better definition of the acceptable solutions, plus several possible technical implementations (most of which will be quickly rejected), plus an appreciation of how to structure a project plan.

[NivagSwerdna]

According to google there are around 950k Milk cows in Canada so 350k is well within an order of magnitude.  There is roughly 4x the number of beef cows... the grand total including bulls, heifers, steers etc... just under 12M

But of course that is irrelevant... the question is asking you how you would go about reasoning the answer not the answer itself.

The OP's question is a simple trap... when asked a question that is out of range some people just b*llsh*t; nobody wants to work with one of them... so they get rejected.  The way to tackle it is say what you know, stop there and then offer reasoning to go further but to be upfront that this part of the answer comes with a degree of uncertainty. IMHO saying you would use google isn't a bad answer if you admit something is beyond your knowledge.

Slightly off topic... once I was interviewing and the candidate went out of their way to explain how they worked night and day, including weekends to solve a problem... I rejected them... if they can't get the work done in the time allocated then... harsh but fair. 

[Howardlong]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

I'd need more information around the context of the question to give a more effective answer.

Furthermore, smart arse trick questions like these which put the interviewee under unrealistic, unnecessary and undue pressure simply indicate to me they're not a particularly nice place to work in, and have too much time on their hands not doing real work. Can you imagine how intrusive and overbearing their HR dept is likely to be in your daily working life? No thanks!

I totally disagree!!

Nothing trick here. The ability to quickly do an order or magnitude estimation is vital to any good engineer or programmer to know if something is even worth trying, to notice someone is bullshitting you etc.

You're not expected to get the right answer to 3 decimal places! Getting the correct exponent is probably enough, and within a factor of two is perfection.

My favourite to ask a candidate who claims knowledge of high school physics, but I've never seen anywhere as a question: What is the mass of the Earth's atmosphere?

You only need to know two physical constants and one math formula (maybe two related ones) to get this right to within 10% or so. I'll even prompt you with their values if you at least figure out which ones you need but can't remember them.

The trick is that they are deliberately trying to make the interviewee uncomfortable with an open ended question with apparently little relevance to the post they're interviewing for. It shows a lack of respect, and suggests (to me at least!) an underlying culture of bullying, cliquism, siloing and trying to catch people out, rather than an atmosphere of fairness, openness, co-operation and transparency. It just doesn't sound like a nice place to be IMHO.

On the other hand, asking a technical question as you suggest leaves it far more clear to the interviewee what you're after, without any unnecessary patronising and divisive smart arsery.

[RoGeorge]

The trick is that they are deliberately trying to make the interviewee uncomfortable ... It shows a lack of respect

Yes, the interviewee is deliberately put in an uncomfortable and stressful situation, but the interviewer is NOT doing that because of a lack of respect. It is doing that because the interviewer wants a glimpse of how the interviewee deals with unknowns, or with stressful situation.

Even the most smart and decent person can turn into a stupid jerk during a crisis situation, and that could be very bad for business. Nobody likes an employee that might be triggered by just an unpleasant question.

[VEGETA]

Their purpose of that question was to measure how can I handle odd questions in front of experienced engineers and managers, and how strong is my personality. Also, how can I deliver good enough answer whether I know the true answer or not...

I answered as follows: "Canada is not a country famous for cows or milk product, so there is no available specific information about it. However, a country like Switzerland is famous for cows and milk products, thus I know they have 600000 cows and all of them registered and maintained.

So for Canada, if you want an answer then I would need to make a specific research to be able to give you results according to available resources."

Then they followed this with tough technical and personality questions and I answered them perfectly. I got the job because of my personality and talking skills since I did not get the 1st place for exams (I got 2nd).

[RoGeorge]

Of course, there is always a chance to pass the theory, but step into troubles at the practice test:



 

[Howardlong]

The trick is that they are deliberately trying to make the interviewee uncomfortable ... It shows a lack of respect

Yes, the interviewee is deliberately put in an uncomfortable and stressful situation, but the interviewer is NOT doing that because of a lack of respect. It is doing that because the interviewer wants a glimpse of how the interviewee deals with unknowns, or with stressful situation.

Even the most smart and decent person can turn into a stupid jerk during a crisis situation, and that could be very bad for business. Nobody likes an employee that might be triggered by just an unpleasant question.

I understand exactly what they think they are doing, but there are other far more representative ways of doing it. While of course I'd give it a reasonable shot, I'd walk out of there and think "what a jerk", and think twice about what I'd be letting myself in for for the reasons I already cited.

I wonder what they'd think of someone who stated "11,750,000, as at January 1 2017, a 27 year low"?

[RoGeorge]

One more thing to add, about what to expect after getting the job. No matter what, sooner or later something like this will happen to any of us:

[tggzzz]

The trick is that they are deliberately trying to make the interviewee uncomfortable ... It shows a lack of respect

Yes, the interviewee is deliberately put in an uncomfortable and stressful situation, but the interviewer is NOT doing that because of a lack of respect. It is doing that because the interviewer wants a glimpse of how the interviewee deals with unknowns, or with stressful situation.

Even the most smart and decent person can turn into a stupid jerk during a crisis situation, and that could be very bad for business. Nobody likes an employee that might be triggered by just an unpleasant question.

I understand exactly what they think they are doing, but there are other far more representative ways of doing it. While of course I'd give it a reasonable shot, I'd walk out of there and think "what a jerk", and think twice about what I'd be letting myself in for for the reasons I already cited.

I can see where you are coming from, but I wouldn't go so far as that without corroborating evidence.

Once, during the milkround I was asked how, if I was an ancient Egyptian overseer, I would be able to tell that the minions had finished their pyramid-building shift. I decided to have fun, and dreamed up half a dozen different ways. Eventually the interviewer asked me if I knew the answer he was looking for (a large eggtimer, yawn); only at that point did I come to a negative conclusion.

Of course, depending on the job, knowing how someone might behave in a difficult situation might be important information directly related to the job. It all depends on the job.

I wonder what they'd think of someone who stated "11,750,000, as at January 1 2017, a 27 year low"?

I would ask where that information came from, and how accurate they thought it was

[NivagSwerdna]

Once, during the milkround I was asked how, if I was an ancient Egyptian overseer, I would be able to tell that the minions had finished their pyramid-building shift. I decided to have fun, and dreamed up half a dozen different ways. Eventually the interviewer asked me if I knew the answer he was looking for (a large eggtimer, yawn); only at that point did I come to a negative conclusion.

I think the Hourglass is a relatively new invention and that might not be the correct answer.  I think there is evidence of water based timing in Egypt... not sure about Hour glasses... think of the difficulty of construction (and also you can't use regular sand... ).

[brucehoult]

Import and export are important, as some countries vastly overproduce and others do the opposite.

Certainly, and that would be a very important consideration if one wanted to estimate for New Zealand where the vast majority of dairy and meat production is for export!

In the case of Canada I have just enough domain knowledge (coming from a dairy farming family in New Zealand, though I escaped to university and the Big Smoke) to know that Canada isn't a big exporter or importer of dairy and meat, producing pretty much exactly what it needs itself. In fact Canada is infamous for its "supply management" system that stands in the way of anyone (such as NZ and Australia) that wants to make proper free trade agreements (the kind that fit on both sides of a sheet of A4) including Canada.

[ejeffrey]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

IMO that is not a very good interview question for most jobs, but the way to answer is to state that you would need to make some guesses or estimates, and state what they are.

Something like:

Population of canada is X
Milk/dairy consumption per capita is Y
Dairy production per dairy cow is Z

Beef consumption per capita is A
Average yield of a slaughtered cow: B
Average age of slaughtered cow: C

Multiply/divide those out to get an estimate, then state what factors are not included: breeding stock, imports/exports, etc.

Its not a hard question if you are used to Fermi problems, and the point would be to see if you can identify the key parameters that you would need to research to get an accurate answer.  I just think they are not usually great interview questions because they are sort of designed to "shock" someone already in a stressful situation.

[T3sl4co1l]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

I'd need more information around the context of the question to give a more effective answer.

Furthermore, smart arse trick questions like these which put the interviewee under unrealistic, unnecessary and undue pressure simply indicate to me they're not a particularly nice place to work in, and have too much time on their hands not doing real work. Can you imagine how intrusive and overbearing their HR dept is likely to be in your daily working life? No thanks!

Either you Just Get It(R), or you understand what one of these questions is getting at; or... you don't get it at all and you get frustrated with the whole idea.

What's the idea?  Orders of magnitude.  IGNORE REAL NUMBERS, COMPLETELY.  Scary?  Why?  How is it any more scary than rounding a number to any other arbitrary precision?  See, the idea generalizes, too!  That is why it is useful.

1. There's about 10M people in Canada.  (Why?  Well, Canada is smaller than the US, and the US is about 100M, so it must be around 10M.)
2. A person eats about a pound per week of steak, and there are a hundred weeks in a year.  (The first is an underestimate, and the second an overestimate.  Justifying rounding like this is okay, just don't sit there thinking about how all the rounding stacks up, you'll take forever.)
3. A cow lives about 10 years before slaughter.
4. A cow is made of about 1000 pounds of steak.

Therefore, there's about 10B pounds of steak consumed in 10 years, and 10M cows to supply it (in equilibrium).

Or in short, about as many cows as people, which might be an easy shortcut.  (On that note, pigs are about 1/10th the size of cows, so you'd expect 10 times more.  Chickens live much less than a year, so should number about the same as pigs.)

Multiplying orders of magnitude is adding exponents, so you can do it in your head without jotting down a single thing on paper.  Anyway, if this sort of question pops up out in the field, you won't have access to the internet anyway, and maybe not the pad of paper either!

Such arguments are great for ballparking whether something is even feasible at all.

The technique I think was first popularized as Fermi's estimation method.  Of course, a man of that intellect would be more than comfortable processing the numerical value as well as the exponent, but the average joe can still get within a factor of 10 or 100 without any real practice!

Tim

[sokoloff]

Such arguments are great for ballparking whether something is even feasible at all.

The real world application of this is quite valuable at times. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten a proposal at work where it's clear that some fair amount of effort went into the background research and preparation and yet I can find a glaring hole in the proposal in 15 minutes of reading and checking for plausibility of numbers. (This proposal would require that our conversion rate in e-commerce would increase from 6% to 125%, or this proposal ballparks our current average shipping prices for 1# air freight packages domestically in the US at $80/parcel.)

[AndyC_772]

Honesty is the best policy here.

Completely agree; the alternative really isn't an option.

If I interview you for a job, the thing I'm most interested in is how you approach unfamiliar technical problems. After all, that's how engineers spend the majority of their time.

That means I need to first find out the limits of what you do know, so I can start to explore what lies just beyond that limit. I want to find out whether you're honest with yourself (as well as with me, of course) about where your expertise lies, and how you approach technical problems that you can't already tackle with absolute confidence.

However smart and experienced you may be, I can virtually guarantee there will be some technical topic which I know better than you do - bearing in mind, of course, that I'm the one who gets to choose the topic.

All I'm doing is trying to make you think, to extrapolate from things you already know, to help solve problems you've not encountered before. I'm not trying to be mean; I just don't learn anything particularly useful if I ask a question you already know the answer to.

My favourite interview question is a bit more immediately relevant to a junior EE than counting cows.

"Imagine you're designing a new board, and you have a choice of two different package types for a major component. One is a BGA, the other a QFP. Tell me about all the things you might consider when making a decision between one and the other."

It's open-ended, has no 'right' answer, and allows a candidate to demonstrate knowledge across a breadth of areas including design, manufacturing, supply chain and repair. I can choose to either mention any that are missing, or delve into more detail around areas that are obviously of interest.

[WorldPowerLabs]

Well, first let's model the cows as spheres...

...no, wait; that would be a physics problem.


In all seriousness, honesty has always worked best for me.  In an interview setting, I'll answer the question as far as I can with what I do know and I'll see if there's any way to estimate or derive the ultimate answer the interviewer is asking for.  If I get completely stuck, I'll say that the question is a bit outside of what I've historically worked on, but that I can find out.  At work, on occasion, when a supervisor has asked me to do something WAY outside of my realm (like redesign a complex cast metal housing), I've said that I'm not an expert in what he's asking for and that while I'm willing to work on it, it may be best to ask one of the mechanical engineers.  Perhaps not the best attitude, but I'm a bit beyond the "young and eager to please everyone" stage of my life... now I'm a semi-cranky, semi-jaded, chronically tired and overworked EE.

Funny story:  I went on an interview once and the interviewer asked me how I would design (on a block-diagram level) a filter to address a certain problem they were having.  Well, I thought about it for a minute and explained what I would do.  The guy's eyes widened a bit and he exclaimed, "I think that would work!  I hadn't thought of that!"...

On another interview, the interviewer was a bit of a cocky and confrontational fellow, and I didn't much care for his attitude.  He asked me how I would design a circuit to perform a certain function based on some digital inputs, without using a microcontroller.  I worked out a design using flip-flops and some glue logic, but in retrospect, I really wish I'd used relays.

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

[tggzzz]

My favourite interview question is a bit more immediately relevant to a junior EE than counting cows.

"Imagine you're designing a new board, and you have a choice of two different package types for a major component. One is a BGA, the other a QFP. Tell me about all the things you might consider when making a decision between one and the other."

It's open-ended, has no 'right' answer, and allows a candidate to demonstrate knowledge across a breadth of areas including design, manufacturing, supply chain and repair. I can choose to either mention any that are missing, or delve into more detail around areas that are obviously of interest.

Exactly.

Such questions can be very revealing about the candidate's previous experience, their ability to extrapolate and "pick up" unfamiliar topics in the future, and their general personality. Counting cows is for HR-droids, managers, and engineers that are out of their depth[1]

[1] unless they demonstrate otherwise by asking relevant questions

[KJDS]

I've interviewed many people over the years, and it's very easy to spot bullshit.

I also ended up having a rather frank discussion when being interviewed when being questioned about Smith charts. If you're doing the interviewing and don't know the subject well, at least make sure that the answer you have written down is correct.

[cdev]

Whenever I have gotten a question like that in an interview I am always honest and then I just go through the thought process with the interviewer with the goal of us finding out the answer. That's always the thing to do.

In a job too, being able to learn new skills quickly is more important than anything else.

[BBBbbb]

Meanwhile in Australia:


Scam attempt or a fake, but still a good laugh.

[bd139]

It doesn't surprise me. I had an agency try and charge my company for blowing out on an interview once because the company was a business risk to deal with. I explained that. They said pay it or we take you to small claims. I fired them, they didn't get any more commission out of me and I never heard back.

[Brumby]

Never bullshit on a CV.
Never bullshit in an interview.

I remember being involved in the first pass cull of applicants for a position - and one stood out ... for all the wrong reasons.  The most glaring was the list of software and systems the person had declared.  Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

That application was soon dismissed.

[Tomorokoshi]

Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

Yes, I like those the best. Makes it easy to sort into the non-contender pile. They typically have something like:

Software:
C, C++, SQL, Windows, Linux, C#, Perl, Python, Java, CSS, XML, HTML, .Net, LabVIEW, RTOS, ...

[free_electron]

When I was in my interview for my current company, the manager engineer asked me: "How many cows are there in Canada?"

So... how would all of you answer that?

i would bounce back with : expressed in what numerical base ?

if they ask nonsense , i want it clearly defined !

[amyk]

I remember being involved in the first pass cull of applicants for a position - and one stood out ... for all the wrong reasons.  The most glaring was the list of software and systems the person had declared.  Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

That application was soon dismissed.

Are you sure that was a good choice? A lot of people do plenty of other stuff outside of formal education (and do it better than those in...), and started many years before.

A long list of certifications, on the other hand, is more suspicious because it usually indicates someone who is only excellent at rote memorisation.

[bd139]

C, C++, SQL, Windows, Linux, C#, Perl, Python, Java, CSS, XML, HTML, .Net, LabVIEW, RTOS, ...

These make me laugh. Some of the job ads demand this which is where it all goes to shit so everyone just loads up their CVs with everything they have read about. However there are a few people out there who can actually nail it all. They tend to have 25 years' experience or more and you can't afford them because they're working in really weird "MacGuyver" jobs holding large companies together for the danger money.

[sokoloff]

Never bullshit on a CV.
Never bullshit in an interview.

My favorite war story along those lines is I had a director working for me who was interviewing to hire an open senior developer position. Candidate comes in claiming to have worked ~30 months at, we'll call it FooBar Systems. She asks him several detailed questions and it comes out that FooBar Systems is a small technology shop, doing software customizations as part of rollout of some other packages for which FooBar was a value-added-reseller.

Candidate talks a good game and really seems to know his stuff; only problem is that FooBar Systems really is a small shop and at the time he claimed to work there, my director actually did work there. 

Oops. 

[Brumby]

Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

Yes, I like those the best. Makes it easy to sort into the non-contender pile. They typically have something like:

Software:
C, C++, SQL, Windows, Linux, C#, Perl, Python, Java, CSS, XML, HTML, .Net, LabVIEW, RTOS, ...

Something like that - but these days, with that sort of software available on your desk, you need to be a little more discerning.  My example was much more straightforward ... it related to software that was only run on mainframes in commercial environments.

[Brumby]

Candidate talks a good game and really seems to know his stuff; only problem is that FooBar Systems really is a small shop and at the time he claimed to work there, my director actually did work there. 

Oops. 

Classic!

[sibeen]

Meanwhile in Australia:


Scam attempt or a fake, but still a good laugh.

Has to be bullshit. Head developer charged out at $55 an hour. Tell em they're dreaming.

[Mr. Scram]

Has to be bullshit. Head developer charged out at $55 an hour. Tell em they're dreaming.

Even getting your car serviced costs you $80 to $120 an hour in labour. Maybe less if it's a small shop, but certainly not less than what that head developer supposedly costs.

[nes999]

I have had more jobs offered becauae I am brutally honest. I tend to be that person that person people ask "how do I look?" I have no problem telling them "Yes, those pants do make your butt look big."

If I dont know the answer to an interview question I usually say something to the effect of " I don't know how to solve that problem. I don't believe on giving superiors problems without possible solutions. So I would try XXX"

When I am hiring its very informal. I know based on your application if you are qualified. That is assuming you told the truth on your application. When interviewing I just have random conversations with them. We might talk hunting/ fishing or whatever it takes to get the interviee to loosen up and have a casual conversation. I use this time to see if they are a good fit. I usually get a feel for how much they know indirectly. The goal is to keep it low stress and help those who tend to be bad at interviews.


Just on a side note if an employee screws up royally I tend not to be angry if they come to me immediately, tell me the truth, and offer a solution. For example this happened last winter.

"Hey I was screwing around on my phone and ran the truck through the side of the building. I blocked off the area. Do you want me to order sheet metal and try and repair it myself or should we call someone?"

This actually happened. He still has a job. Whereas I've fired people for much less. I hate liars.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

[bd139]

Has to be bullshit. Head developer charged out at $55 an hour. Tell em they're dreaming.

Even getting your car serviced costs you $80 to $120 an hour in labour. Maybe less if it's a small shop, but certainly not less than what that head developer supposedly costs.

Perhaps he was outsourced and on the phone?

[WorldPowerLabs]

This brings up a good point:  by the time I entered college, I'd already been an electronics hobbyist for almost a decade and licensed ham operator since my early teens.  Been programming since I was in grade school -- when you have access to a computer (IBM 8088 clone), but no money for software... well, you have to write your own.   Having a few good mentors didn't hurt, either.  Much of what I know is self-taught; earning my EE degree was mostly a way to get my "union card" so that I'd have some formal piece of very expensive paper to point to on job applications. 

I remember being involved in the first pass cull of applicants for a position - and one stood out ... for all the wrong reasons.  The most glaring was the list of software and systems the person had declared.  Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

That application was soon dismissed.

Are you sure that was a good choice? A lot of people do plenty of other stuff outside of formal education (and do it better than those in...), and started many years before.

A long list of certifications, on the other hand, is more suspicious because it usually indicates someone who is only excellent at rote memorisation.

[Mr. Scram]

I have had more jobs offered becauae I am brutally honest. I tend to be that person that person people ask "how do I look?" I have no problem telling them "Yes, those pants do make your butt look big."

If I dont know the answer to an interview question I usually say something to the effect of " I don't know how to solve that problem. I don't believe on giving superiors problems without possible solutions. So I would try XXX"

When I am hiring its very informal. I know based on your application if you are qualified. That is assuming you told the truth on your application. When interviewing I just have random conversations with them. We might talk hunting/ fishing or whatever it takes to get the interviee to loosen up and have a casual conversation. I use this time to see if they are a good fit. I usually get a feel for how much they know indirectly. The goal is to keep it low stress and help those who tend to be bad at interviews.


Just on a side note if an employee screws up royally I tend not to be angry if they come to me immediately, tell me the truth, and offer a solution. For example this happened last winter.

"Hey I was screwing around on my phone and ran the truck through the side of the building. I blocked off the area. Do you want me to order sheet metal and try and repair it myself or should we call someone?"

This actually happened. He still has a job. Whereas I've fired people for much less. I hate liars.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

In a lot of countries the law actually forbids future employers to ask about the personal life of an employee. HR departments are trained to ask question in a way that avoids the personal angle. These laws are intended to prevent employers from asking about all sorts of irrelevant parts of your life, like religion, sexual preferences or whether you want more kids in the future, but it makes casual conversation and getting to know your future employee very hard.

Obviously, a lot of people ignore these rules, but if an employee claims you're judging him on personal matters rather than merits, it might get ugly.

https://www.reed.co.uk/career-advice/interviews-questions-you-should-not-be-asked/
http://www.businessinsider.com/11-illegal-interview-questions-2013-7?international=true&r=US&IR=T

[nes999]

I have had more jobs offered becauae I am brutally honest. I tend to be that person that person people ask "how do I look?" I have no problem telling them "Yes, those pants do make your butt look big."

If I dont know the answer to an interview question I usually say something to the effect of " I don't know how to solve that problem. I don't believe on giving superiors problems without possible solutions. So I would try XXX"

When I am hiring its very informal. I know based on your application if you are qualified. That is assuming you told the truth on your application. When interviewing I just have random conversations with them. We might talk hunting/ fishing or whatever it takes to get the interviee to loosen up and have a casual conversation. I use this time to see if they are a good fit. I usually get a feel for how much they know indirectly. The goal is to keep it low stress and help those who tend to be bad at interviews.


Just on a side note if an employee screws up royally I tend not to be angry if they come to me immediately, tell me the truth, and offer a solution. For example this happened last winter.

"Hey I was screwing around on my phone and ran the truck through the side of the building. I blocked off the area. Do you want me to order sheet metal and try and repair it myself or should we call someone?"

This actually happened. He still has a job. Whereas I've fired people for much less. I hate liars.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

In a lot of countries the law actually forbids future employers to ask about the personal life of an employee. HR departments are trained to ask question in a way that avoids the personal angle. These laws are intended to prevent employers from asking about all sorts of irrelevant parts of your life, like religion, sexual preferences or whether you want more kids in the future, but it makes casual conversation and getting to know your future employee very hard.

Obviously, a lot of people ignore these rules, but if an employee claims you're judging him on personal matters rather than merits, it might get ugly.

https://www.reed.co.uk/career-advice/interviews-questions-you-should-not-be-asked/
http://www.businessinsider.com/11-illegal-interview-questions-2013-7?international=true&r=US&IR=T

You know I never thought of that. I will have to be more careful.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

[BBBbbb]

Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

Yes, I like those the best. Makes it easy to sort into the non-contender pile. They typically have something like:

Software:
C, C++, SQL, Windows, Linux, C#, Perl, Python, Java, CSS, XML, HTML, .Net, LabVIEW, RTOS, ...

Something like that - but these days, with that sort of software available on your desk, you need to be a little more discerning.  My example was much more straightforward ... it related to software that was only run on mainframes in commercial environments.

If it's someone straight out of uni I could understand that kind of CV. They simply put every piece of software they used for some projects during studies. They are simply trying to fill the CV since there's not much to put there, and they don't have a good feel for the real world yet. So I wouldn't disqualify someone if he's applying for a junior position and just finished university.

OT, to think I used Ruby for 6-8 months 6yrs ago and now I'm not sure I remember a single thing... Knowledge fades... 

[Mr. Scram]

If it's someone straight out of uni I could understand that kind of CV. They simply put every piece of software they used for some projects during studies. They are simply trying to fill the CV since there's not much to put there, and they don't have a good feel for the real world yet. So I wouldn't disqualify someone if he's applying for a junior position and just finished university.

OT, to think I used Ruby for 6-8 months 6yrs ago and now I'm not sure I remember a single thing... Knowledge fades...

It's not as if job requirements aren't filled with the most exotic combinations, for entry level pay . In software, everyone suddenly is supposed to be a full stack developer, so everyone suddenly becomes a full stack developer, not in the least because they rarely actually need one.

I'm not even talking about companies asking for more years of experience with something than it has actually been released. If you clearly want bullshit, expect bullshit.

[Brumby]

I remember being involved in the first pass cull of applicants for a position - and one stood out ... for all the wrong reasons.  The most glaring was the list of software and systems the person had declared.  Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

That application was soon dismissed.

Are you sure that was a good choice? A lot of people do plenty of other stuff outside of formal education (and do it better than those in...), and started many years before.

You are confusing the IT landscape of today with that relevant at the time (well over 20 years ago).  I addressed a similar concern here:

Only 5 months out of Uni, they had a list that would be hard pressed to achieve in 5 years.

Yes, I like those the best. Makes it easy to sort into the non-contender pile. They typically have something like:

Software:
C, C++, SQL, Windows, Linux, C#, Perl, Python, Java, CSS, XML, HTML, .Net, LabVIEW, RTOS, ...

Something like that - but these days, with that sort of software available on your desk, you need to be a little more discerning.  My example was much more straightforward ... it related to software that was only run on mainframes in commercial environments.

[soubitos]

Suppose you're an ECE (Electrical Computer Engineering) and you're in an interview for an engineering job. It has to do with autonomous quad-copters. The interviewer asks you to fill out a stress-strain curve, just label the points of interests. You've seen stress-strain curves before, know that the slope is young's modulus, but everything you know is really superficial and don't know anything about it really. Would you:

1.) Bullshit and try to fill it out
2.) Cut to the chase and say you are out of your domain, admit that you have no idea what you are doing with this.

A friend of mine recently had an interview with a company. She's an ECE in undergrad. She's currently in between classes due to personal reasons but she's still looking for jobs to fill her time. She's got a lot of project design in this area so its not out of her ballpark. She told me this happened to her and it got me thinking what I would do in that situation.

At first thought I learn towards #2 , but I would like to ask others what you would do with those choices, or possible alternatives.

Having already unknown words in over 50% of the post (LOL) in any case 1. i would tell the truth about the extent of my knowledge and abilities and 2. Make sure I let the interviewer know i can bring myself up to speed to the task and carry on as if i knew the answer to his question in the first place....

This might cost me the job, well... ce la vie....
As an interviewer and as a boss, i would hire the one who knows how to find the answer than the one who knows the answer anytime

[Halcyon]

Meanwhile in Australia:


Scam attempt or a fake, but still a good laugh.

Oh how tempting would it be to be the recipient of that letter and to reply.

Something along the lines of...

Dear Whoever,

On the 20th October 2017, I applied for a senior developer position involving the following technologies: Python3, Flash, MySQL and Erlang. During the interview it became immediately obvious that the interviewer was unfamiliar with basic interviewing techniques and had even asked irrelevent questions with respect to the advertised position. Even at my level, I should have done my homework a little more thoroughly and realised you guys are a bunch of wankers, let alone "a professional service provider" as your website claims.

As a result, I am requesting that the time wasted with your company be remitted in full, please see below for some costs I pulled out of my arse:

Code: [Select]

POSITION             TIME ALLOTTED          HOURLY RATE          TOTAL COST
Reach-around         2 hours                $69.00               $138.00
Being jerked around  2 hours                $100.00              $200.00
"Rebekah"            2 hours too long       Nil charge           $0.00
Please pay the above cost to the following account before the end of the week. If you can't be bothered getting basic grammar and letter writing correct, then kindly invest the money in some education for you and your staff, just as a matter of principle.

Thank you.

P.S.: I'm sure the ACCC would love to hear about your business practices, as your request for payment is unlawful according to Australian Consumer Law.