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Offline fubar.grTopic starter

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What is IoT really?
« on: November 04, 2016, 12:24:51 am »
I am trying to understand what the so called Internet of Things is all about.

I started reading the Wikipedia article, but I am still clueless, especially since many of the entries there are just too vague and full of buzzwords to make any real sense.

What exactly is new about IoT and how it will play out in the future with all those interconnected devices?

Offline Ampera

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2016, 12:46:34 am »
I am trying to understand what the so called Internet of Things is all about.

I started reading the Wikipedia article, but I am still clueless, especially since many of the entries there are just too vague and full of buzzwords to make any real sense.

What exactly is new about IoT and how it will play out in the future with all those interconnected devices?

The IoT (Internet of Things) is the concept of computerizing everyday things. To make something part of the Internet of Things, you just need to take a Thing, and put a computer in it, then connect it to the internet for it to fulfill some task of some sort.

That is the base definition, but generally IoT devices can be home appliances. For example there are now fridges with tablets installed into them that can record and take notes, and they connect to the internet to allow you to do stuff like check notes, and look at what is in your fridge (Like if you are at the store). Another example is an automated pet food dispenser that you can get video from and control remotely, there are things like internet controller thermostats that can be adjusted with an app on your phone. You also have lightbulbs you can control, you have cars you can remote start.

Think of it like home automation, and in a sense that's the that IoT is.

Now the question to how it will play out into the future? Well there is some controversy to it. Formerly most of these things were the dreams and joy of electronics hobbyists that slapped a few RasPis together, get some servos and mechanical parts, and hey presto, made a coffee machine control it's self over the internet. A lot of companies are now getting involved, a lot of what you mentioned, is just buzz words flying every which way, but some companies like I think it was Samsung who made the computerized fridge, are getting in on the action.

One of the major issues with these devices are the security risks, both personal and virtual. Because the NSA wants to get their sweaty mitts on any bloody thing that's out there, you are likely to end up with a load of cameras and microphones that may or may not be covertly recording your actions. Another thing is that these devices often have ALWAYS HAVE security holes, and they are VERY rarely if EVER patched by the manufacturer. So this could mean easy entry points for your network, ways people can snoop data off you, maybe even do some sorta man in the middle sorta deal.

My personal complaint is the practicality of these devices. I don't see the point of spending thousands of dollars extra on devices that are normally pretty expensive, to have it do pretty niche things, or things I already have a working and cheaper solution for. I also feel like the IoT should stay with hobbyists like myself and probably most of the people on this board. The IoT used to (Still sorta is, but leaning away from it now) be a neat way for EE hobbyists to automate their home, and get a kick out of it anyways, but now with companies sorta ruining the whole ethos, I feel it's gonna lose charm soon, and become fairly mundane. However, my own personal complaints, may be applicable to you, may also not be.

To summarize, the IoT is normally home automation by computerizing household appliances and getting them to do something, what that something is, the companies barely know.

EDIT:

To add people below have said these devices are part of the world's largest botnet, possibly in possession by Anonymous  :popcorn:
I don't own any IoT devices, and I am glad that if I were to, I would only use my own secured and personalized devices I build myself.
This has to be how IoT devices remain forever, Idc about the buzz words, they are what marketers makes like EE people make electronics.
I seriously think companies need to stop making IoT devices almost entirely, and leave it to us engineers, otherwise we get people cashing
in on self-created hype, and just bringing down the poorly made rubbish onto the world.

I don't think people will face reprocussions for their devices being on botnets, but the companies responsible CERTAINLY will. My dad put it
best:

Similar to the DDoS that hit Dyn. The root cause is that hardware manufacturers have little clue about software and apparently none at all about security. It is not that difficult to have devices not cnnet to the Internet, but only the local network until the default user name and password is changed. That also needs to be a forced change right after first login. Of course, they also need to remove any of the backdoors they often put in.
The only option I see is to either hold every single confirmed vendor financially responsible or make it illegal to sell IoT or any other active, networked device that did not have its operating system go through an independent security check with the results published.

While I think that is an effective, but extreme solution, it's totally correct. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 04:04:26 pm by TwoOfFive »
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Offline rrinker

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 12:58:59 am »
 I've been using home automation for a long time now, originally with those wonderful X10 devices. Talk about some shoddy shortcuts for manufacturing - but they generally worked and I had few if any devices actually fail. Combined with a controller that plugged in to my computer, I did all sorts of stuff, including a vacation script that would turn various lights on and off around the house simulating typical movement - and all automatically offset a bit to either side of the nominal time so it wasn't like a light went on precisely at 8pm ever night which is a dead giveaway no one is home and the light is on a timer. For whatever idiotic reason, the floodlights for the back yard were controlled by a switch in the master bedroom upstairs - very convenient when you wanted to walk out on the patio. 1 X10 switch upstairs and one of their handy remote transmitters and no more running upstairs to turn on the outside lights. We also had those candle lights in the front windows, all controlled by the X10 devices, so no running around the house every evening turning them on and then again to turn them off. Some of the exterior rated modules were great over the holidays to automatically switch on the Christmas lights.
 Some of this new stuff, I just don't understand - why would I EVER want my thermostat to publish to the internet? Sensors, switches, all that stuff only needs to go to the controller and the computer connected to it. If I then want a workflow that sends me a text alert or an email, I can build that into the computer with proper security. Each of those little devices has no business connecting directly to the internet. Even cameras - just link to the controller, and the controller and ONLY the control talks to the internet. Or better yet, does not - simply alert my phone and if I want I can log in to the controller via my phone and view what's happening.
 I only have a little of the newer stuff. The thermostats are just way too expensive - I have 3 heating zones plus my AC is not integrated, so I'd need 4 of those suckers to control everything - plus the whole "they talk to the internet for no damn reason" issue. Oh, adjust heating and cooling based on weather patterns? The controller can do that by getting a weather feed and then having some logic. Time feeds, along with dusk time plus some exterior light sensors and it can turn the lights on if it's already dark and I am nearly home - without the light switches talking to the internet.

 

Offline helius

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Offline Ampera

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 01:53:43 am »
I forget who I am sometimes, but then I remember that it's probably not worth remembering.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 02:46:26 am »
I am trying to understand what the so called Internet of Things is all about.

It's a phrase you put on your startup pitch deck in order to get VC funding.
Don't ask hard questions like why.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2016, 02:51:08 am »
Its all about a marketing big move on how to dump those excess smartphones gut into everything else, like your shoes, door knobs, spoon, underwear and etc, as the market for smartphones is already saturated, while the manufacturers are still can not afford to reduce their output.

Offline jonovid

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2016, 03:28:42 am »
X10 system but home automation can go too far  A Controller Area Network (CAN bus) maybe ok, with a  router /PC as a hub (the gatekeeper), but a Iot URL on everything is going too far.
will we ever let the HAL 9000 become a reality. not in my home if I have the last say. 
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Offline SL4P

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2016, 04:38:35 am »
I am trying to understand what the so called Internet of Things is all about.

It's a phrase you put on your startup pitch deck in order to get VC funding.
Don't ask hard questions like why.
That fits nicely alongside most implementations of the 'Cloud'...
A low-profile way for telcos to charge you (or push up your usage) for moving your data to & from servers that you may have to pay a monthly rental.  (All at relatively premium rates in AU)
For backups - it's almost OK, but there are other more effective ways to perform off-site backup.
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Offline AlxDroidDev

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2016, 05:30:03 am »
IoT is the world's largest botnet.

Basically, you get a regular fridge, add a 15" flat panel to it and internet connectivity using some obscure hardware and firmware, maybe even linux. However, you code the software so badly that it can be easily infected by some malware called Mirai or even newer malware specific to IoT.

So, now you have your cool, internet-enabled fridge, microwave or washing machine, that knows your facebook, twitter and instagram passwords, and maybe even your bank passwords, but it is also part of a botnet used on the largest and most massive DDoS attack to date, and bring down Dyn, causing billions of US$ is losses to major internet companies and banks.

Then, one day, the FBI, NSA, DHS, DEA, CIA, JHC and even HJS is knocking on your door asking how the f*ck your IP was on the DDoS on the Pentagon, and you know zip about it. You go to jail a week before your wife's birthday and you didn't have time to buy her a gift, but don't worry... that neighboors of yours that has a high paying job in Wall Street, just got divorced, is fit and sun tanned, plays the guitar drives a brand new 2017 BMW X6M, and sometimes rides his Harley, WILL remember her birthday, because you used to be buddies and he knows everything about your wife. He works on a building only a few yards from a Tiffany's and he'll make sure she doesn't spend her birthday alone or without a gift, and all because you thought that a Samsung refrigerator with a LCD screen and wi-fi seemed like the coolest thing ever!

So, IoT is pretty much that, in layman's terms.
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2016, 07:21:49 am »
IoT is the world's largest botnet.

It has the potential to be yes. If I was to describe the "Internet of Things" I would compare it to "The Cloud". Another way of putting it is everyday objects and appliances which we've lived with for many years, that don't need to be connected to the internet, but are.

I believe simple things should be kept simple. Far less to go wrong. For example: Light globes. They should emit light when power is applied. Apart from specialised applications, they don't need to be "smart" or connected to my phone or network in any way. You can make everyday "dumb" objects smart through proper planning and implementing already existing technology. An example of that is my garage and outside lights that are automatically activated by a passive infrared sensor. When I walk or drive in, lights go on. It need not be anymore complicated than that.

My ducted air conditioning is another example. I already have the option of maintaining a specific temperature or, if I don't want to leave it running in my absence, I simply set a timer before I leave. If I wanted to be more advanced, I have the option of "programming" it based on various times of the day. Smart phone and internet connection not required.
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2016, 07:24:40 am »
Take a mundane product, slap on an ethernet connector, WiFi connection or a brand new IoT wireless standard and hope it sticks.

Offline Halcyon

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2016, 09:03:09 am »
You could have a load of washing set to go when the smartmeter signalled a lower tariff applied. That tariff could be varied based on available grid capacity. In a renewable energy world the grid may need to be more dynamically managed if supply varied more than it does when coal/nuclear baseload power is the main source. The basic idea of this is already done in some places but IoT could make it more finely granular and more locally managed.

The naysayers will still have a field day for some time to come but the concept will become indispensible.

Do people still use peak/off-peak power plans? I'd have thought that's a pretty old concept. I'm on the cheapest plan I can find and I get charged the same per KW/hr regardless of what time of day it is. Even if I was on one of these peak/off-peak plans, most appliances already have timers, so with a little forward planning and good old brain power, I can set my washing machine and dishwasher to come on at any time I choose.

I don't disagree with making products smarter and easier to use. It's just these days, people are taking it well beyond what it needs to be. I'm all for keeping it simple (stupid).

You can save far more on energy be replacing old appliances with efficient ones. Ditch old hot water tanks in favour of continuous hot water systems. Replacing old air conditioners and microwave ovens with inverter models. Switch your electric kettle with a good quality stove-top kettle (if you have gas) and use a more efficient fridge/freezer temperature setting (I use 3/-18 degrees Celsius respectively).

I've never understood why people need to continuously keep several hundred litres of water at 50 degrees Celsius sitting in an outdoor tank for when it's used for maybe 30 minutes a day (depending on your household).
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2016, 10:19:05 am »
There is a button for your washing machine, you press it, and Amazon will deliver extra washing powder for you. There are LED bulbs, which can change their color, and be controlled by saying something loud. You can set your car to preheat itself early in the morning, while still on the charging station.
I don't see the point of spending thousands of dollars extra on devices that are normally pretty expensive, to have it do pretty niche things, or things I already have a working and cheaper solution for.
The way I see it, everyone is crazy, and looking for new ways to spend their money on stuff.
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2016, 11:13:10 am »
What exactly is new about IoT and how it will play out in the future with all those interconnected devices?

just another maker idiocy that became marketing wank.

makers in their endless quest to be cool like to give new names to the wheel they happen to have discovered.
journalist, expecially the clueless majority of them in their attempt to gain readers will write about whatever seems to gain traction. background check? what is that (LOL)
then there are big companies that want to look hip and young, and of course that will use anything with traction to push some more bullshit products..
but the marketing wank part was best explained by dave
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2016, 11:16:41 am »
X10 system but home automation can go too far  A Controller Area Network (CAN bus) maybe ok, with a  router /PC as a hub (the gatekeeper), but a Iot URL on everything is going too far.
will we ever let the HAL 9000 become a reality. not in my home if I have the last say. 

or that episode of the simpsons where pierce brosnan do the voice of the automated house
 

Offline AlxDroidDev

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2016, 12:18:56 pm »
IoT is the world's largest botnet.

It has the potential to be yes.

Actually, it IS. The October 2016 DDoS attacks on Dyn DNS services were carried out from IoT devices like cameras, DVRs, printers and etc, most of them infected with the Mirai malware. My previous post, although a joke, has some elements based on actual facts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Dyn_cyberattack

IoT has the potential of being very useful on our daily lives, but it is actually being very badly done/implemented.
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Offline daqq

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2016, 12:30:35 pm »
Quote
I am trying to understand what the so called Internet of Things is all about.
A vaguely defined concept that in an ideal world allows you to control your light bulb from the other side of the room by means of an internet capable device, in the real world allows someone half a world away to control your light bulb to commit a vaguely defined crime.
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Offline Maxlor

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2016, 01:56:50 pm »
There's indeed a lot of buzzword flinging going on when it comes to IoT, but at the core the concept is simple, and maybe even appealing. It used to be that you had mostly computers connected to the internet, i.e. workstations used by humans, or servers used by other computers. The IoT idea is that you now also connect devices that have a purpose other than giving humans internet access, so the IoT-"thing" is a device with a purpose that's not primarily related to the internet, but which is connected to the net because there's some sort of benefit in doing so.

Note that this is not really a new thing, people have been doing it for decades. We have had things like networked printers, temperature sensors in server rooms, inventory control, occupied/empty parking lot sensors, etc., for quite some time now. It's just the "IoT" buzzword that's new. Well, maybe there is another new thing: wireless connectivity has become cheap and fast, so it is feasible to add connectivity to more things where it just wouldn't have made economic sense before. In the end you still have a networked sensor or actuator though, same old.

Personally, I don't see much benefit in networking all things in the consumer space. The ideas I see seem gimicky and rather fragile most of the time, and the security issues are real when there's noone around to properly manage them. However, I also see quite some potential in commercial and industrial applications, where even small process optimizations can result in tangible economic benefits. I feel that that is where things are moving quickly at the moment, and where things will keep on moving. Very little of it will be revolutionary though, rather it'll be evolutionary, driven not by the sudden availability of new technology, but the slow decline in the cost of implementing what's been around for years.

I do have some IoT things at home, there's a temperature/humidity logger for example. I like to see a graph of inside/outside temperature/humidity over time, it helps me to decide when to run the AC in summer, or how much airing out I need to do in winter, or to see how much my gaming PC heats up the room at full tilt :) Having this data go through the internet is not strictly required, but I do it because then it's accessible from all my computers, tablets, and phones. It makes things more convenient.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2016, 02:07:04 pm »
once you've used cloud too many times, you need a new word.
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Offline nfmax

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2016, 02:11:04 pm »
I came across a lovely IoT example the other day. A local church has a nice 19th Century clock in the tower. This has a mechanism powered by a descending weight, which needs to be rewound to the top of the tower every few days. The job of rewinding is given to the volunteer who opens & secures the church for the day. There are a number of different people on the rota, and sometimes they forget to rewind the clock. So after a day or two the clock stops...

The solution for this was:
  • A small magnet on the weight
  • A reed switch near the bottom of the weight's travel
  • An Internet-connected widget that responds to the reed switch contact closure by sending a http request (or maybe an email, I'm not sure which)
  • A third party Internet service which responds to the http request by sending an SMS to the churchwarden's mobile phone - 'Please go and rewind the clock'
All now working nicely!
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2016, 03:21:30 pm »
did adding the weight change the timing of the clock
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Offline nfmax

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2016, 03:23:05 pm »
The magnet is not on the pendulum weight - it's on the weight that drives the going train
 

Offline N2IXK

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2016, 03:42:04 pm »
An IOT is quite a useful device if you want to make kilowatts of UHF RF power.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_output_tube



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Offline Ampera

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Re: What is IoT really?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2016, 03:42:08 pm »
IoT is the world's largest botnet.

Basically, you get a regular fridge, add a 15" flat panel to it and internet connectivity using some obscure hardware and firmware, maybe even linux. However, you code the software so badly that it can be easily infected by some malware called Mirai or even newer malware specific to IoT.

So, now you have your cool, internet-enabled fridge, microwave or washing machine, that knows your facebook, twitter and instagram passwords, and maybe even your bank passwords, but it is also part of a botnet used on the largest and most massive DDoS attack to date, and bring down Dyn, causing billions of US$ is losses to major internet companies and banks.

Then, one day, the FBI, NSA, DHS, DEA, CIA, JHC and even HJS is knocking on your door asking how the f*ck your IP was on the DDoS on the Pentagon, and you know zip about it. You go to jail a week before your wife's birthday and you didn't have time to buy her a gift, but don't worry... that neighboors of yours that has a high paying job in Wall Street, just got divorced, is fit and sun tanned, plays the guitar drives a brand new 2017 BMW X6M, and sometimes rides his Harley, WILL remember her birthday, because you used to be buddies and he knows everything about your wife. He works on a building only a few yards from a Tiffany's and he'll make sure she doesn't spend her birthday alone or without a gift, and all because you thought that a Samsung refrigerator with a LCD screen and wi-fi seemed like the coolest thing ever!

So, IoT is pretty much that, in layman's terms.

That is the best bloody thing I have ever seen. I even read it all. You need to start doing rant videos on youtube, you would be amazing.
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