Author Topic: What is this laser-coating-ion-sputtering-sprayer-metal-deposting equipment ?  (Read 2972 times)

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Offline BeaminTopic starter

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I have never seen one of these before but right now as we speak I am saving the money up to buy one it's that cool. Looks like spray paint but with LASERS!!!! My guess its a machine that sprays out some sort of charged metallic ions for making thin metal layers on a base metal substrate, then using the laser to affix them to the substrate. The gun is positive or negative with respect to the work piece depending on what chemical is to be applied. Maybe also inert gas comes out but the distance to do that is too far like in a TiG nozzle. Then a CO2 or IR laser blasts the substrate after its coated with the product bonding it to the base metal. Since its a cylinder block I'm guessing its like a nickel alloy coating to improve wear in the engine.

https://youtu.be/pIFjHyGmbCY?t=142


I wonder what goes through the hoses.
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Offline coppercone2

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im pretty sure thats a rust burning laser thats just cleaning the part. look on the bottom left side of the part i am pretty sure its some shit they pulled from the trash, nothing would arrive like that for any advanced process. the only time I ever thought of that (putting garbage infront of expenisve plasma streams) is to restore shafts with metal deposition and regrinding but i was never sure how pourous or good the shaft would be (if mismachined or worn).

given that its a red and blue hose its process chill water.

anything you describe is either done in a vacuum or extremely bright to my knowledge.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 09:58:37 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline raptor1956

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There are a number of companies offering laser "Cleaning" systems where the laser burns off crap and leaves the bare metal.  The fact that some of these are handheld units would make it hard to imagine OSHA giving there nod of approval in the USA, but China and many other places no problem. 

In a more controlled environment like an enclosure that prevents any reflected light for escaping I see no problem, but handheld ... nope!


Brian
 
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Offline BeaminTopic starter

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im pretty sure thats a rust burning laser thats just cleaning the part. look on the bottom left side of the part i am pretty sure its some shit they pulled from the trash, nothing would arrive like that for any advanced process. the only time I ever thought of that (putting garbage infront of expenisve plasma streams) is to restore shafts with metal deposition and regrinding but i was never sure how pourous or good the shaft would be (if mismachined or worn).

given that its a red and blue hose its process chill water.

anything you describe is either done in a vacuum or extremely bright to my knowledge.


That looks like the head they pulled off an engine and certainly not from the trash, that actually looks like a fairly new engine. On second thought it may just be burning off the oil, so they can put the head back in the engine. But if that part was trash you would see a lot more deposits and rust on one of those parts is only when it has been sitting outside for years after the oil has had time to evaporite and wash off. They would be insane to throw that in the trash in that condition. Probably part of an engine rebuild. The only rust I see is on the valve cover studs which is normal as they stick outside the engine where there is no oil, and the nuts strip off any rust resistant coating plating or oil. .
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Offline Brumby

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It's a Q-switched laser.  The laser energy is absorbed by anything that doesn't reflect it - and it vaporises.

Just look up laser rust removal, laser cleaning or laser paint stripping for a whole range of examples.
 
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Offline coppercone2

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there are rusty parts on the left side , im 99% sure its trash
 

Offline BeaminTopic starter

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there are rusty parts on the left side , im 99% sure its trash


I don't think you have done many engine rebuilds. Engines from the north in the US look like that after only a few winters. Most of those rusty parts get replaced when you rebuild.
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Offline coppercone2

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yea but you don't put anything like that into anything other then a cleaner
 

Offline G7PSK

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That is an aluminium cylinder head the threads on the bolts have some surface rust, not enough to make that trash, so it must be some form of surface prep. going on.

https://youtu.be/dvS3BHFPfaM
 

Offline LaserSteve

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The one in the first video is a roughly 4 Kilowatt Q-Switched Fiber Laser system (means the lasing medium is a long coil of doped fiber optic) with a high rep-rate coming out to a cooled fiber wand. It was detailed in an issue of a laser trade magazine  a while back.  Picking the proper laser  safety glasses and safety suit to be laser scatter and reflection  resisitant is an interesting activity to say the least.

In the first pictures of the system I saw, the operator was manually using the wand like a torch or power washer in tests.


Q-Switching means you block the lasing cavity, store the  population inversion in the lasing medium, and rapidly unblock the laser cavity, for generating pulses on the order of nanoseconds.  Usually done with an acousto-optic modulator.  The peak energy is thus huge. It does not work for all types of lasing mediums, but that medium has a storage time of around 300 microseconds.

 Finding a brave (or stupid) enough operator and ensuring their safety is another issue.  In my opinion as some one who works with more then his share of high power lasers, that video scares the crap out of me.  That task just screams robot arm. 

    Your supposed to get  Safety Class IV Laser Power down to Class I for operators with 100% reliability of the safety system. Generally at those power levels, that means using an enclosure to ensure safety.

While I'm sure the suit is reasonably  safe, I wonder how long it can take a direct hit. We like to never depend on the operator's situational awareness in classical laser safety.

The hoses will have coolent to keep the wand and optics cold, and an assist gas to keep the lens clean and possibly aid in the cleaning.  Assist gasses can be air, oxygen, or inert depending on the task and type of laser.  In some cases a stream of co-linear gas is used to blow material out of the heat affected zone.  In other cases it may be to oxidize material in a laser induced flame or plasma. What I see here is just keeping the optics clean and blowing dust away.

In this case even  the scattered laser light is one heck of a long range  eye hazard.

Steve






« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 06:21:18 pm by LaserSteve »
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Offline coppercone2

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you made me feel better about not having enough money
 

Offline dmills

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ANYTHING Q switched is IMHO an eye hazard, never mind a couple of kW average power Q switched, that is just adding insult....

I wonder how many video camera sensors they go thru making these videos? Those things don't much like laser up em either.

I have played with doing this sort of thing with an old arc pumped ex medical 'KTP' (Steve will know the machines to which I refer) butcherised into a 1064nm Q switched setup, I kept blowing out the OC, but it would sort of work at the ~150W level. Really need to get around to reworking the cavity on that to get the power density at the output optic down by an order of magnitude or so (No this was not a first pulse suppression issue, wise to that one).

I suppose I should try it with a 'greenlight' instead (Yes, contrary to popular belief you can get them to go without the card), at least you can see the effin' scary reflections with that!

OD7 or so, ANSI certified is your friend, that and wool suits with wool full face hoods (Wool because it self extinguishes and chars instead of melting, think marine firefighting kit).

Play safe, you only get one pair of retina.

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline coppercone2

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do you really need to wear scratchy wool?

thats disgusting. Are the burns that bad? welders leather maybe?
 

Offline dmills

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Well those surgical lasers are in the 50 - 100W sort of class and are used exactly because they will take chunks out of you....
By the time you hit a kW or so it all just becomes more so.

Personally I want something that ablates (And ideally with lots of smoke) rather then transmitting the heat or worse melting, but your choice. Having 100% skin coverage is good too!

I am sure standards exist for laser resistant clothing, but for messing about in the shed I just grabbed something I had that made sense to me (I really own that gear for fucking around with live steam).

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline coppercone2

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whats live stream in regards to laser equipment?
 

Offline dmills

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Live steam is why I own the fireproof gear.

You don't mess around with 100PSI steam and forced draft coal burners, wearing kit that makes you fire (and slightly steam) resistant is a GOOD thing...

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline coppercone2

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oh steam I thought you said Stream.

Whats that used for? Heating? The pressures sound kind of high. By like 95 psi.
 

Offline IanB

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Whats that used for? Heating? The pressures sound kind of high. By like 95 psi.

100 pounds is pretty low by industrial standards. I'm going to guess steam locomotives?
 

Offline LaserSteve

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I work in a lab that uses ~ 40 PSI steam to power undergraduate experiments for a class.  Steam and High Pressure Hot Water  is awesome for transferring heat long distances. In our case, much more convenient then electric heaters.

 Seven  Kilowatts worth of energy fits through a simple 1/4" steel line for the last few feet and the safety protocols are much easier then trusting 130 students per day with taking care of three phase heating elements around a vast amount of water that is boiled for the pilot plant training.

Steve
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Offline dmills

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Stationary pumping plant actually, but yea locos have some of the same issues.

Time was it ran at more like 250PSI, but while we were happy to get the boiler tested to that, the feedwater pump needs a teardown and rebuild before we can actually feed the thing at that pressure, and we do not really need the  performance (The real pumping having long since gone electric).

Personally Steve I would take the three phase, less likely to invisibly reach out and melt someones face. A three phase RCD (GFCI) is a thing and you can raise the source impedance to limit the energy available, live steam takes no prisoners (But arranging for a rupture disk to blow in the presence of a bunch of undergrads is probably good for seeing who has good plant survival instincts).   

Regards, Dan.
 

Offline coppercone2

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IMO with swagelok or something it would be pretty good so long the tube is good seamless stainless, and it gets inspected. I would also suggest double walls.

What is interesting about steam is erosion from dirty sources, NYC recently had a big blow up with steam, very old pipes went boom. They claimed the old steam system had tons of 'carbon' type deposits in it and stuff. Apparantly city steam is pretty dirty.

I always wondered with a steam loop, can you get particles of oxides that form in the pipe to abrade it like sand blasting over a long period of time?

I would not use it either though and instead opt for electricity. Sounds like you should inspect it alot though.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 01:51:04 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline IanB

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What is interesting about steam is erosion from dirty sources, NYC recently had a big blow up with steam, very old pipes went boom. They claimed the old steam system had tons of 'carbon' type deposits in it and stuff. Apparantly city steam is pretty dirty.

I always wondered with a steam loop, can you get particles of oxides that form in the pipe to abrade it like sand blasting over a long period of time?

In industrial plants the boiler feed water is carefully treated to avoid corrosion, erosion and other problems. However, in a city like NY with miles and miles of old, underground steam pipes, who knows what crud can accumulate down there?
 

Offline coppercone2

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well the story I heard about the nuclear boiler industry is that they would sen blasters with dynamite into the boilers to descale em. Knew someone that did it. Did not really inspire confidence about treatment.
 

Offline IanB

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well the story I heard about the nuclear boiler industry is that they would sen blasters with dynamite into the boilers to descale em. Knew someone that did it. Did not really inspire confidence about treatment.

I don't think that really happened. It sounds more like a myth than a true story.
 

Offline coppercone2

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I spoke to someone who said he did that for the reactor near west point. Family friend.

But they will say whatever officially because of fat pensions believe me.

Civilian nuclear industry is full of weird practices and lack of spec checking etc. Get to know people in their supply chains and you will hear the stories too. I know not much (in terms of dirty laundry) of whats going on in the military side of things. At least not from the mechanical side of things like boilers and pipes.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 04:01:24 am by coppercone2 »
 


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