Where could one find a decent priced spectrum analyzer in EU, am I just unluck ?

[DC1MC]

 Hello all, I'm soooo frustrated  this community, youtube and generally Internet is full of stories following the same pattern:

"Hi all, I was very afraid that paying 500EUR for this cool colour screen SA with tracking generator from 2KHz to 26GHz will prove to be a disaster, because looky here, there is dust in the fan and a 2dB nelinearity at over 5GHz, the bloody seller said that it works, will I ever be able to repair it, oh yesss I do, after I've replaced two leaking capacitors and cleaned a switch is all perfect. And I've also installed two blue LEDs... Also the seller had 5 of them and I got them all, to use them as spares and for experiments, no I'm not selling any, thanks for your support."


And I want to have a decent SA with TG for a budget of around 1.5KEUR, NO MATTER HOW defective, as long as it's repairable and in the whole bloody EU there is nothing, nothing, fleabay is full of overpriced crap or destroyed beyond any chance of repair, the ever present Chinese shite, that is both miserable AND overpriced, same for all the local classifieds and börse.

Of course in US/Israel there is an abundance of crazy cheap and good quality stuff, but the transportation will kill it and German Zollamt (customs)  will anally rape you ( "do you claim that this old dusty defective device is 500USD only, zeeer funny, now letz have a look in our price list and pay the VAT and customs, what, the transportation price is also included, danke for asking...). I know because I've bought my scope form Israel.

So bottom line, measurement gear addicts from EU (Germany especially), where could one buy a decent SA with TG, no matter how damaged is, I can repair almost everything, as long as I get spares for unfixable things, I'm devilishly good with a soldering iron, rework station and microscope

Please help a poor addict with his addiction.



 

[HalFET]

You rarely hear about the ones that are hopeless I fear. More than a few cases are impossible to repair. But which sort of frequency range do you need, and how good of a spectrum analyser? The rigol clearance sale has a few spectrum analysers at the moment: https://www.rigol.eu/clearance/  Also most of the newbies who go out buying spectrum analysers only stick to HP, but you should check the other brands as well: Rohde & Schwarz, Aeroflex/Marconi, Anritsu, ...

Just a quick search:
Nice wide band Anritsu for 1700 EUR: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Anritsu-Spektrum-Analysator-MS2602A-100Hz-bis-8-5GHz-mit-Manuals/263305092773
Repaired 3 GHz Anritsu: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/ANRITSU-MS2651B-Analizzatore-di-spettro-Spectrum-analyzer/172959678172
Portable 3 GHz Anritsu: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Anritsu-MS2711D-Spectrum-Analyzer-100kHz-to-3GHz-w-Opt-3-Color-21-Transmission/232389960954
Portable 8GHz R&S for 1500 EUR: http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Rohde-Schwarz-FSH8-Spectrum-Analyzer-9Khz-8Ghz/182924721561
Advantest 2.2 GHz: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Advantest-U4941-RF-Field-Analyzer-9kHz-2-2GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-50-Ohm/391915263726
Advantest: http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/ADVANTEST-Digital-Spectrum-Analyzer-TR9403-ADVANTEST-Signal-Generator-TR-98202/111974919126
Advantest 2.2 GHz: http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Advantest-U4941-Spectrum-RF-Field-Analyzer-9-kHz-to-2-2-GHz-EMI-Measurement/161967419463
Advantest 3.5 GHz: https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/ADVANTEST-4131D-Spectrum-Analyzer-10-KHz-3-5-GHz-Analyser/182758979428
Advantest 2.6 GHz: http://www.abex.co.uk/esales/test/advantest/spectrum_analyser/r3361/61720192_s02410/index.php
HP 2.9 GHz: http://www.abex.co.uk/esales/test/hp/spectrum_analyser/8560a/3204a82028_s02727/index.php
Aeroflex 2.7 GHz: http://www.abex.co.uk/esales/test/ifr/spectrum_analyser/2398/02120219_s02742/index.php
Tek: http://www.abex.co.uk/esales/test/tektronix/spectrum_analyser/492p/b041720_s02294/index.php

[Ice-Tea]

You haven't mentioned BW (I assume 26.5GHz is not the requirement).

Let's see. I have a HP 8560E with tracking option. Haven't gotten it to output anything decent quite yet, though.

And a R&S CMU 200 with SA (and FG, power meter etc) that's close to your budget. Not sure of it has tracking though.

[Ice-Tea]

You and me both. Has 002 (tracking) and 007 (better digitized performance) as options, so it should be a sweet piece of kit. Once it works.

[chris_leyson]

Hi DC1MC, as you're in Germany maybe try Helmut Singer, www.helmet-singer.de, they might have something in stock that they're not advertising. They've got a hugh inventory of test gear so you never know, I've never purchased anything from them BTW but there is no harm in window shopping.

[Neganur]

If you're on a budget then Helmut-Singer is not the place to look.

With that out of the way, if customs clearance is too problematic does the global shipping program that Ebay offers take care of the customs so that the item arrives 'deliver duty paid' ?

[Bashstreet]

Hello all, I'm soooo frustrated  this community, youtube and generally Internet is full of stories following the same pattern:

"Hi all, I was very afraid that paying 500EUR for this cool colour screen SA with tracking generator from 2KHz to 26GHz will prove to be a disaster, because looky here, there is dust in the fan and a 2dB nelinearity at over 5GHz, the bloody seller said that it works, will I ever be able to repair it, oh yesss I do, after I've replaced two leaking capacitors and cleaned a switch is all perfect. And I've also installed two blue LEDs... Also the seller had 5 of them and I got them all, to use them as spares and for experiments, no I'm not selling any, thanks for your support."


And I want to have a decent SA with TG for a budget of around 1.5KEUR, NO MATTER HOW defective, as long as it's repairable and in the whole bloody EU there is nothing, nothing, fleabay is full of overpriced crap or destroyed beyond any chance of repair, the ever present Chinese shite, that is both miserable AND overpriced, same for all the local classifieds and börse.

Of course in US/Israel there is an abundance of crazy cheap and good quality stuff, but the transportation will kill it and German Zollamt (customs)  will anally rape you ( "do you claim that this old dusty defective device is 500USD only, zeeer funny, now letz have a look in our price list and pay the VAT and customs, what, the transportation price is also included, danke for asking...). I know because I've bought my scope form Israel.

So bottom line, measurement gear addicts from EU (Germany especially), where could one buy a decent SA with TG, no matter how damaged is, I can repair almost everything, as long as I get spares for unfixable things, I'm devilishly good with a soldering iron, rework station and microscope

Please help a poor addict with his addiction.

I do not have any good knowledge of German customs but it sound similar to Finnish customs that can be quite... thorough in its efforts to make your life miserable if they choose to.

Any case if you buy item lets say for 500 euros(or dollars) and the customs attempt to extract from you in duty excess of the item costed based in their "standard item charges" you can most likely challenge this.

If you can give substantial evidence (bill of sale bank records connecting to the item etc) you should be able to get a ruling in your favor.

Best consult your customs and if needed other regulatory systems that exist in Germany.

Good luck !

[Bashstreet]

I would not patron those recyclers even if I would have a larger budget, WTF, they are taking them from companies that want to recycle them  (so generous, even for free if they are delivered to their door and they're not monitors or batteries, because these can't be resold) and then because is "geprüft" (aka it has been turned on and doesn't caught fire) then kaching, 7K+ for a >25yrs old device, sehr nett, it even has some 3 months (very limited) warranty.
And of course, importing them from the US with fleabay global shipping and tax is nice and hassle free, until you observe that the price is now double AND the custom guys still wants you to visit them and chat with you about what is in the parcel and why do you need it.

I've got my scope from Israel and had those pleasure, bonus, prolly now I'm on few lists as well.

This whole situation is so politically myopic, if somebody buys a piece of (expensive) equipment for its own use, training and experimentation, those should be tax and hassle free, add the tax + a large fine if the item is sold in the next 5yrs, but if it's used to train somebody, let it in for free. And I always hear complaints of the lack of experienced specialists and the young ones that doesn't know too much out of uni, but that's another story.

 So in the end the situation with the online sellers is that they're pretty much dry in EU, so does anybody wants to part of a nice SA with TG for a reasonable price ?

The thing is U.S is do not have free trade deal with EU nor do Israel hence you pay duty...

Inconvenient as it is for you and me there are reasons for this.

Political bs as usual + everyone is trying to protect their markets what can be sensible.. if we had free trade deal with no duty with China all manufacturing that is left would dissapear from EU U.S

[Ice-Tea]

It has nothing to do with 'protecting a market'. That makes it sound as if you delberatly make it harder for foreign traders. It is the other way around: take a 1000€ unit. Bought inside the EU, you will pay VAT (as you do with everything) and it will end up costing you 1200€. Buy it outside the EU and the seller will not charge VAT, so you just pay 1000€. That's a rather unfair advantage. So the applicable VAT is charged at entry.

Only problem sometimes are the rather exhorbitant fee carriers charge to do the paperwork for you.

[nctnico]

I'm now waiting for the inevitable "You don't need a TG, you can use a noise source and the results are similar or even better...", I swear to God, if I hear this crap once more I'll hunt down the basterd and stick his noise generator where sun don't shine 

It greatly depends on where you want to use the tracking generator for. There is a reason so many spectrum analysers don't have a tracking generator and IMHO it is because it doesn't have much practical use. If you are tuning antennas or filters then you also want to know how much the DUT is too inductive or too capacitive so you know which components and values you need to fix it. IOW: a network analyser will be way more usefull for those kind of measurements than a spectrum analyser + tracking generator. The latter will only tell you the DUT isn't good but not how to fix it.

Another option is to use a seperate RF generator which can do stepped sweeps. That will be way slower but then you'll also have an RF generator which usually has a calibrated output level and modulation.

BTW: A new Siglent SSA3000X is in your budget as well and if you hack it, is can do 3.2GHz (IIRC).

[Bashstreet]

It has nothing to do with 'protecting a market'. That makes it sound as if you delberatly make it harder for foreign traders. It is the other way around: take a 1000€ unit. Bought inside the EU, you will pay VAT (as you do with everything) and it will end up costing you 1200€. Buy it outside the EU and the seller will not charge VAT, so you just pay 1000€. That's a rather unfair advantage. So the applicable VAT is charged at entry.

Only problem sometimes are the rather exhorbitant fee carriers charge to do the paperwork for you.

I think you are confusing internal taxation and customs duty.

They are not same thing..

Internal taxation trough VAT and other taxes is internal process after product has entered the country/trade area.

Duty taxation is tax taken from value of product brought to the internal market.

You cannot bring items without paying tax to internal markets without trade deals (IE free trade deals)

[Bashstreet]

Hi Bashstreet, I thought that you're German, because this is the exact same argument that I'm hearing from my German colleagues, I'm not talking here about generally canceling the tariffs and opening the unlimited hi-tech industy trade without any protection whatsoever of the local industry.

I'm really talking about giving some advantages to the people that want to improve their training, eventually invent or innovate something and for this are willing to spend good money on equipment and materials, don't treat them like bloody for profit companies, by imposing VAT, oversized customs tax and so on but give exemptions for personal non-profit use. Impose some rules with stiff fines and this is it.
Treat them no like a missed opportunity for taxation, but like an investment in eduction and a increasing the country's cadre of specialists, the same way Bill Gates did with Windows and other Microsoft software, and let it be pirated to have people already familiar with it.
The people that spend this kind of money for some very niche equipment are really passionate of what they're doing and need to be helped and eventually even stimulated, not treated like they're get rich because they bought an old Aniritsu junker.
And if Germany for example could have a 100 pages law about the size, position and content of the ink stamps for beef meat, they sure can find a way to legislate this and curb the abuses.

Your perspective is purely self profiting and narrow.

This is common to us all as we only think of out potential benefits.

Countries and governments cannot act such way .

If everyone had possibility to buy items without any duty or tax from countries with substantially cheaper manufacturing costs it would be end of any last vestiges of manufacturing in Europe/U.S

These limitations exist to protect the financial interests of countries/trade areas.

Much as we like to think my one little piece of equipment wont make a change it does as everyone else would then have same rights.

Now should there be some exemptions sure and i believe there are.

[Ice-Tea]

It has nothing to do with 'protecting a market'. That makes it sound as if you delberatly make it harder for foreign traders. It is the other way around: take a 1000€ unit. Bought inside the EU, you will pay VAT (as you do with everything) and it will end up costing you 1200€. Buy it outside the EU and the seller will not charge VAT, so you just pay 1000€. That's a rather unfair advantage. So the applicable VAT is charged at entry.

Only problem sometimes are the rather exhorbitant fee carriers charge to do the paperwork for you.

I think you are confusing internal taxation and customs duty.

They are not same thing..

Internal taxation trough VAT and other taxes is internal process after product has entered the country/trade area.

Duty taxation is tax taken from value of product brought to the internal market.

You cannot bring items without paying tax to internal markets without trade deals (IE free trade deals)

*Shrugs* Pretty sure tariff for US T&M gear entering the EU is 0%. So, for all intents and purposes we are talking about the VAT equivalent charge that is imposed when entering the EU free marker zone.

[Bashstreet]

It has nothing to do with 'protecting a market'. That makes it sound as if you delberatly make it harder for foreign traders. It is the other way around: take a 1000€ unit. Bought inside the EU, you will pay VAT (as you do with everything) and it will end up costing you 1200€. Buy it outside the EU and the seller will not charge VAT, so you just pay 1000€. That's a rather unfair advantage. So the applicable VAT is charged at entry.

Only problem sometimes are the rather exhorbitant fee carriers charge to do the paperwork for you.

I think you are confusing internal taxation and customs duty.

They are not same thing..

Internal taxation trough VAT and other taxes is internal process after product has entered the country/trade area.

Duty taxation is tax taken from value of product brought to the internal market.

You cannot bring items without paying tax to internal markets without trade deals (IE free trade deals)

*Shrugs* Pretty sure tariff for US T&M gear entering the EU is 0%. So, for all intents and purposes we are talking about the VAT equivalent charge that is imposed when entering the EU free marker zone.

I do not think "pretty sure" cuts the cheese.

Back up your claim that there is no tariff for U.S T&M gear entering Europe from U.S 

[Ice-Tea]

http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=903020&country=US

[nctnico]

Even if there is a import tariff then IIRC it is between 0 and 1.5% so all in all it is not going to drive the price of a piece of equipment up significantly. I buy test equipment from allover the world and in my experience the paperwork has to be right. This means an invoice has to be included which states the brand and model number.

[Ice-Tea]

Also: slightly more on-topic: just finally got that 8590E up and running. The solution? Set the trigger to 'free run' 

[DC1MC]

Hey IceT, congratulations, how much did you pay for it if you can share with us ?

[Ice-Tea]

Heheh, bluntly: no, I can't share it. I buy this stuff a) because I like to play around with cool gear and b) because I like to sell stuff and make a profit. Proclaiming the 'bought for' price kinda gets in the way of the second part.

[Ice-Tea]

Whu?  Blue LEDs? You kinda lost me there.... I'l send you a PM with a proposal.

[Bashstreet]

Well that's great if you do not need to pay any duty for oscilloscopes ! shame about VAT... 20%

[Freelander]

Hi Bashstreet, I thought that you're German, because this is the exact same argument that I'm hearing from my German colleagues, I'm not talking here about generally canceling the tariffs and opening the unlimited hi-tech industy trade without any protection whatsoever of the local industry.

I'm really talking about giving some advantages to the people that want to improve their training, eventually invent or innovate something and for this are willing to spend good money on equipment and materials, don't treat them like bloody for profit companies, by imposing VAT, oversized customs tax and so on but give exemptions for personal non-profit use. Impose some rules with stiff fines and this is it.
Treat them no like a missed opportunity for taxation, but like an investment in eduction and a increasing the country's cadre of specialists, the same way Bill Gates did with Windows and other Microsoft software, and let it be pirated to have people already familiar with it.
The people that spend this kind of money for some very niche equipment are really passionate of what they're doing and need to be helped and eventually even stimulated, not treated like they're get rich because they bought an old Aniritsu junker.
And if Germany for example could have a 100 pages law about the size, position and content of the ink stamps for beef meat, they sure can find a way to legislate this and curb the abuses.

Your perspective is purely self profiting and narrow.

This is common to us all as we only think of out potential benefits.

Countries and governments cannot act such way .

If everyone had possibility to buy items without any duty or tax from countries with substantially cheaper manufacturing costs it would be end of any last vestiges of manufacturing in Europe/U.S

These limitations exist to protect the financial interests of countries/trade areas.

Much as we like to think my one little piece of equipment wont make a change it does as everyone else would then have same rights.

Now should there be some exemptions sure and i believe there are.

Yes, the exceptions should be that brexit voters pay ALL duty, while 'sensible' people who did not vote brexit pay none.. - too many PC isolationist nutters about  - trump - cough ...  -
The ideal is to live in a country that lives far far beyond' it's means by running a totally unnecessarily HUGE military budget.. (Nuclear weapons and boomers v Stanley knives and the 'Stanley' wins ) .
That means the US really,, ex mil stuff is usually excellent. Israel also has a HUGE military (but get the yanks to pay for it) hence they have a HUGE surplus market.
Gone are the days where the UK Mil Surplus market is booming.  . When the forces used to swap out you could get great gear - same with GCHQ.. now ? - beggar all really.

There should be absolutely no issue with imports of used gear. It should be a really straight forward process. Unfortunately in certain so called democracies there are too many 'jobsworth' customs officials.
It is really strange that here in Portugal I can get a FedEx overnight package from AD Singapore with 'sample only' and no value stated and it BYPASSESS customs entirely - NEVER anything to pay even if the 'samples' enclosed are valued at over 200 USD ! .!!!. I am sure could get a brick of dope sent the same way and I am sure it would still be waved through - it is fedex -- Woowooowowooo ... All bow to fedex in the customs department (probably back handers) . Actually - it goes to a 'private' customs unit - run by - yes, you guessed it - fedex......
However, get anything weighing over 1kg from China and customs will never believe the value. You have to send ALL details. They wanted a full copy of a bank statement for one item that was less than 25 Euro. I sent them a screen grab with ALL details redacted apart from the one line referring to the item. They wanted an original full copy of the whole sheet !  jokers ! I told them to go and whistle as they have absolutely no right to look at anything from my bank statements apart from what I chose to not redact. Send it back I told them - (they have to pay - not me)  .. it arrived next day......
Another time they wanted a web LINK to a commercial invoice. Try to explain to these jokers that they CANNOT have one as it is linked via YOUR account. Maybe some nutters here give them their logon details and password and also drop them a few quid for beer - it is a joke. They scratch their arses for a bit and then think - oh yeah - I can't use the link because I need to be logged on, so they ask for a screen shot - and you have to mail them 3 or 4 times pointing them BACK to the ORIGINAL screenshot you sent them. A total farce. HUGE amount of customs people employed though ...................... 
If you want anything sent to portugal just send it fedex. they will probably polish it and re-cap it as they whisk it through. Sounds like the German customs are taught in the same school of Jobsworths................ 

[Kilo Tango]

http://madb.europa.eu/madb/euTariffs.htm?productCode=903020&country=US

well its obvious init, " Whereas this examination showed that the apparatus in question is a spectrum analyzer; whereas it does not have the requisite objective characteristics making it specifically suited to scientific research; whereas in particular the great precision and the stability of the obtained measurement results cannot confer upon it this character; ....... "

However this applies to an HP 8568A, doesn't say about other models.

So the last couple of spec analysers I got from the States I was charged the VAT and that's all. Mind you I am using them for research so .....

What a load of .....

Ken

[HalFET]

You haven't mentioned BW (I assume 26.5GHz is not the requirement).

Let's see. I have a HP 8560E with tracking option. Haven't gotten it to output anything decent quite yet, though.

And a R&S CMU 200 with SA (and FG, power meter etc) that's close to your budget. Not sure of it has tracking though.

R&S provided PC software that allows you to do it over GPIB, but it ain't very quick.

Thank you HalFET for your reply and the effort you put in your search.
Unfortunately, it just confirmed my rant, there are NO decent SA with TG available in EU for a 1.5K budget, because if we filter your list for:

(price <= 1.5K EUR) && (NO Chinese crap) && (Must have TG), the we've got a nothing burger   .

I did saved a new site and I'll try to search fleabay for Analizzatore di Spectro  , maybe something will show up.

Honorable (sad) mentions:
- Rigol junk SA marketed for "hobbysts and IoT passionates", almost no usable feature.
- One of the oldies has in the specs: "Frequency accuracy 100KHz for less than 2GHz" 
- I don't want to pay thousands extra for half-baked repairs.

I'm now waiting for the inevitable "You don't need a TG, you can use a noise source and the results are similar or even better...", I swear to God, if I hear this crap once more I'll hunt down the basterd and stick his noise generator where sun don't shine 

Given that you didn't quite specify what you need exactly it's difficult to cater to your needs. A regular spectrum analyser + white noise source would probably do if you just want a tracking generator. The CMU200 for example is quite full-featured, BUT it's a nightmare to use since for half of those features you need to control it over GPIB.

[dmills]

Look also for 'radio communications test sets' these often have a spectrum analyser as part of the functionality and can sometimes be quite usable.
Lots of these are really designed for cell phone work, but they often extend down to the nearly DC bands as well, Marconi and Anritsu are the common ones over here.

There was that fire sale on brand new Aeroflex/Cobham units here 6 months or so back, the low end of which IIRC fit your budget? Might be worth giving the vendor a ring and seeing what may still be available.

For stuff in Germany, there is always Friedrichshafen in March, but some of the asking prices are really silly, you have to haggle....

Finally, run searches without the "Tracking generator" you sometimes see kit where the seller clearly is not an RF type and does not understand that second socket.

Regards, Dan.

[HalFET]

If I'll ever find a very reasonable priced CMU200 I will immediately reverse and replace the DOS software there, is yet another thing that I'm good at, but strangely enough, even if I contacted some guys that were having in excess of 20 of these things, I was meet with glassy eyes and "hard businessman" talk: "look boss, I've just got for scrap price this shite because I know somebody at a recycling centre and googled the price,  you pay what I say it costs and I don't care what you do with it or fuck off..."
So if I ever get one of these, the redesigned software will NEVER be open source or published.

 Cheers

You mean you'll never open-source it, even though the rest of us did so with our cmu200 tools and tricks? But anyway you can get working units for as low as 1000 EUR on eBay.

[Bicurico]

Hi DC1MC,

I have followed your frustration and rant on this thread since day one.

Let me share a bit of my experience with you, even if only to make you feel better.

I like TV, CATV and SAT field meter (with spectrum analyzer) and lately I have become fond of spectrum analyzers, too. I have quite a collection by now and it includes professional receivers and modulators for all signal types used in broadcsting (DVB-S/C/T). I have three real spectrum analyzers by now.

Buying a spectrum analyzer is not a trivial task, because it is a very expensive equipment. You want to make sure you buy a unit with the required specs and as a hobbyist you want to pay as little as possible.

As already mentioned in this forum, one very viable solution is the Siglent SSA3021X, which can easily be hacked to include all measurements, tracking generator and extended bandwidth up to 3.2GHz. You cannot just claim it is Chinese crap. This device performs pretty well for the price and I am not so sure a 10-20 years old SSA will perform any better, despite its eBay price being higher.

Also, please note that prices on eBay are high because there is demand. It is a democratic self regulating system!

The sellers certainly did not receive those units as free scrap which they only had to collect and sell for a lot of money. The way it works is that they purchase a whole lot of stuff, without knowing what it is, if it works, etc. They pay for the lot, collect it, separate the junk from resellable units and then do they homework to achieve maximum price. That is a business. Try it yourself and you will see how quickly you are doing a big loss, if you don't get it right.

Regarding the easy repairs and cheap scores, people claim on forums: Don't trust everything you read.

Example: I bought two Emitor Megalook fom a guy in Singapore. It seemed a good deal, especially because the second unit was very cheap relative to the price of the first unit, which is why I got both. Then I had to literally wait for 4 month until our postal service and customs managed to clear the item. 4 months!!! When I finally received the two units (after paying 23% VAT, around 5% customs + 15 Euro fees), I noticed that both devices, despite being as new (that was great - they probably were never used), had totally flat battery packs. Buying those from a battery repair shop would cost me aprox. the same as I paid for the units! Doing it myself (which requires buying a spot soldering machine) would cost around half of that. Batteries are not so important, though. Worse is that one unit had a defect and would not show analogue CATV. It took me another 4 month of free time at night to study the PCB and in the end reach the conclusion that a particular IC must be defective. It cost me another 25 Euro to get a replacement (without knowing 100% for sure it was really the culprit). I fixed it successfully.

So, lets do the math:

I bought both units for 350 Euro. That is cheap. A simple Emitor Satlook Digital NIT (only SAT) will cost around 150 Euro on eBay. This is the "Mega" model with TV, CATV and SAT, supporting DVB-S/C/T.
Then I paid around 75 Euro for customs.
Another 25 Euro for the repair.
Ony after 8 month did I have both units at 100%.

Total cost: 450 Euro.

New battery pack: 100 Euro each.

Initially I thought that if I buy two and sell one, I might get the other unit for free. I doubt anyone will pay me 450 Euro for a unit without battery.

See, in the end I will keep both, but it was not as good a deal as it seemed. To me it was, because I learned so much repairing it. I had fun with that and I do like the device. From a rational point of view, I might have done better buying a brand new Prime Digital field meter for around 1000 Euro, which would have had colour TFT and MPEG2/4 decoders - but that was not the point of it (reference to TEA thread).

Back to spectrum analyzer:

I currently have (as described in the relevant thread) a Keyseight E4403B to repair. It has a broken power supply. Well, hopes are not totally at zero, yet. But I learned that there is NO INFORMATION at all regarding the power supply (shared by many spectrum analyzer frm HP, Agilent and Keysight). So if you get a reasonable deal on those and the power supply breaks (it will at some point in time), you are screwed.

Importing from the US: you will have trouble with customs. Shipping is really expensive. If you know someone in the US and you happen to go to the US or you know someone who goes there, you or this person cold bring the device personally. The problem is that these devices are HEAVY! I tried this route, but gave up. How can you possibly ask someone to bring you a spectrum analyzer with a minimum weight of 15kg in hand luggage?

The CMU200/CRTU: these do NOT feature a tracking generator. But they offer a pretty great spectrum analyzer. Because there are many on the market, you seem to get good access to spare parts. Also, there is considerable information on how to repair common faults, generate required activation keys, replace HDD, etc. But, repairing and maintaining such a device is not that easy. Note that most people here are pretty deep into electronics and repair. It seems easy when you read it, but just getting access to a RXTX board will take more than an hour the first time you try!

Another thing: you won't be able to write your own DOS software for the CMU200/CRTU. As has been said in different threads, most of the magic happens inside the different modules. The PC module acts only as a frontend.

So your options are:

1) Patience and keep searching - one day you will find a good deal.
2) Don't expect a SUPER GREAT deal - that does not happen. Monitor closed auctions on eBay to get an idea of real selling prices.
3) Specialize in one device and learn about it: what are the common faults, common options, etc. Consider buying broken units in hope to build one working. Make sure you can mix components, though! Many devices are pretty closed to self-repair. If you focus on one particular device, you will at some point know everyone selling those, know what to consider, etc. If you just look at spectrum analyzer in general, you will hardly get a good deal - instead you will be ripped off.
4) Consider the SSA3021X. See the reviews, try one for real.
5) Consider: RTL2832U dongle, HackRF or similar SDR
6) Consider: SMA/NWT device - you can write your own spectrum analyser software, as I did

Regards,
Vitor

[MadTux]

Why not start with HP 8566/8568?
 Usually quite cheap on US ebay (sometimes in germany, too), shipping is a bit expensive though, because of the size and weight.
Good thing, you can buy them cheaply (because they are apparently too big for most people ), also in pieces (like RF box, display, cables....) and they are top quality, quite reliable and rather easy to fix.
You start with whatever you find cheap on US ebay and slowly complete your 8566/8568 with all the extras you want. (like 8444A tracking gen or 85685A preselectror)

[DC1MC]

Why not start with HP 8566/8568?
 Usually quite cheap on US ebay (sometimes in germany, too), shipping is a bit expensive though, because of the size and weight.
Good thing, you can buy them cheaply (because they are apparently too big for most people ), also in pieces (like RF box, display, cables....) and they are top quality, quite reliable and rather easy to fix.
You start with whatever you find cheap on US ebay and slowly complete your 8566/8568 with all the extras you want. (like 8444A tracking gen or 85685A preselectror)

Well MadTux, I think that's a mighty good idea, let's quickly see what Europe has to offer on fleabay:
 8566:
Only this beauty: eBay auction: #https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-8566B-Analyseur-de-spectre-100Hz-2-5GHz-2-22GHz/292300311725 and only 2100+ EUR, a real bargain 

OK, maybe 8568 is my lucky number, look at this (one and only) splendor:
eBay auction: #https://www.ebay.de/itm/HP-8568B-Spectrum-Analyzer-100Hz-1-5-GHz/112641237289 a complete bargain at 2000 EUR and change 

And no actually incomplete or defective ones to start with, soooo.. Pech as they say in Germany, nothing usable 

Sadly, my first post is remaining valid, no really wins, yes there are some devices available lingering around waiting for someone desperate enough to buy them, but nothing to call a catch, something to use your skills on it and spare some money, of course if you're a (small) company that permanently need one, forking 2-3000 on a refurbished old device makes sense, for a hobbyist, no so much.

And monitoring all the places the situation is clear, there is mafia cartel interest group that collects these things, most likely on a very low price ( when NATO or Vodafone retires 1000s of devices they are not auction them piece by piece, but as scrap and are happy to get quickly rid of them). Or else the market will be flooded with them, but now most likely are collecting dust and rusting in warehouse and it will be scrapped than let go at lower prices to keep the supply scarce and prices high.
The same crap as with diamonds.

 

[Bicurico]

Those units are in the homes of hobbyists like yourself, mainly gathering dust.
Your problem is that there are fellow hobbyists with a bigger budget than yours.

Also, bear in mind that a simple refurbished power supply of an HP/Agilent/Keysight spectrum analyzer can cost 1000US$! No wonder that even broken devices are sold at high prices. They are valuable to provide spare parts.

If there was a Rohde & Schwarz spectrum analyzer closing on eBay for 1000 Euro, I would bid right away. And that even though I don't need one. And like myself others would do the same. There is always competition on these devices. Believe me, I have been hunting for years.

[rhb]

Having gone through all this myself.  And I'm in the US!  I'd like to share my interim solution.

For spectrum analysis I have an SDRplay RSP2.  Roughly equivalent to an Agilent E4406A, 10 MHz span, 12 bit ADC.  I am waiting for a DG8SAQ  VNWA 3EC to arrive from SDR-kits.  It will give me full VNA functionality over my primary spectrum of interest.  I still lack SA function above 2 GHz, but I have a LimeSDR I'm going to package when I figure out how to cool it and the humidity goes back up.  I killed a 500 GB drive by ESD a week or two back :-(  I thought I had grounded myself, but the chassis paint apparently had other ideas.  I've added an aluminum rail to the front of my PC desk.  I already have an ESD mat on the workbench.  The next step is the floor.

A LimeSDR-mini ought to give you what you want at an acceptable price.  Some programming required, but I'm only one of a large group of people trying to solve the same problem you face using a LimeSDR.  So I expect that progress on the software will be fairly swift.  Though it depends upon how patient you are.  If you need an SA with TG today it might not be quick enough.  However, there is always the old school sweep generator and scope approach at least at HF & VHF.

I'd also like to note that almost everyone will post when they got lucky on a "parts or repair only" instrument. They don't when it proves unrepairable.   And as noted, testing and parting out a dead unit can be profitable.  There are far more people with a non-commercial interest in electronics gear than most would imagene.

The advent of things like the AD985x and  ADF435x make designing and building an SA-TG an attractive project.  I  recently bought a Yaesu FT-991A, but I'm really much more interested in instrumentation design and construction.  Which is why I let my license lapse 30 years ago.  Getting relicensed is obviously on my "to do" list.

I'd like to note that I spent an entire evening looking for an SA-TG on eBay in the US. Only 1-2 percent of the units had a TG installed. Not quite as scarce as hen's teeth, but close. And the prices made a Siglent SSA-3021X look attractive even though I returned one after trying to use it for a week or two.

[DC1MC]

Hi Bicurico, I will make some comments on your post and quote-edit your post to leave the main points

Hi DC1MC,

1) I have followed your frustration and rant on this thread since day one.

2) Buying a spectrum analyzer is not a trivial task, because it is a very expensive equipment. You want to make sure you buy a unit with the required specs and as a hobbyist you want to pay as little as possible.

3) As already mentioned in this forum, one very viable solution is the Siglent SSA3021X, which can easily be hacked to include all measurements, tracking generator and extended bandwidth up to 3.2GHz. You cannot just claim it is Chinese crap. This device performs pretty well for the price and I am not so sure a 10-20 years old SSA will perform any better, despite its eBay price being higher.

4) Also, please note that prices on eBay are high because there is demand. It is a democratic self regulating system!

5) The sellers certainly did not receive those units as free scrap which they only had to collect and sell for a lot of money.

...snip the story of buying 2, keep 1, sell1...

6) I currently have (as described in the relevant thread) a Keyseight E4403B to repair. It has a broken power supply. Well, hopes are not totally at zero, yet. But I learned that there is NO INFORMATION at all regarding the power supply (shared by many spectrum analyzer frm HP, Agilent and Keysight). So if you get a reasonable deal on those and the power supply breaks (it will at some point in time), you are screwed.

7) Importing from the US: you will have trouble with customs. Shipping is really expensive. If you know someone in the US and you happen to go to the US or you know someone who goes there, you or this person cold bring the device personally. The problem is that these devices are HEAVY! I tried this route, but gave up. How can you possibly ask someone to bring you a spectrum analyzer with a minimum weight of 15kg in hand luggage?

The CMU200/CRTU: these do NOT feature a tracking generator. But they offer a pretty great spectrum analyzer. Because there are many on the market, you seem to get good access to spare parts. Also, there is considerable information on how to repair common faults, generate required activation keys, replace HDD, etc. But, repairing and maintaining such a device is not that easy. Note that most people here are pretty deep into electronics and repair. It seems easy when you read it, but just getting access to a RXTX board will take more than an hour the first time you try!

9) Another thing: you won't be able to write your own DOS software for the CMU200/CRTU. As has been said in different threads, most of the magic happens inside the different modules. The PC module acts only as a frontend.

...skip my options...

Regards,
Vitor

OK, here are my comments:

1) It's nice that someone empathizes, maybe I'll subscribe to this thread as well  .

2) This is obvious, for 2K EUR you buy in Germany a very usable car.

3) I have a friend working at <frigging large telco equipment manufacturer with R&D in Eastern Europe>, the bean-counters decided that the peons there does not need any Agilent and R&S SA, but gave them the love of of this forum that you've mentioned. The results pipeline stopped to a screech, two frustrated (alpha geeks) guys quit immediately and the junk was promptly returned and replaced with proper devices. It seems that the tablet strapped to a mediocre signal board didn't had what was needed, even if it produces nice colored pictures.
Personally I don't understand what is the target market of these things, so far they seem to have failed to capture any significant industrial/R&D market and only have some marginal following in the academic and (rich) hobbyist community, or else the little heist with "unlock the 3GHz range" would have come to an abrupt stop, with a rain of take down notices and  DMCA crap. Along with FPGA encoded keys / rootfs encryption and better protection methods. Rigol kind of give up and market their SA attempt to IoT enthusiasts and when the price will come down to under 1K EUR, not around 2K as it is now in DE, I will consider it, not sooner.

4) Each one is entitled to an opinion, mine is that there is an artificial made scarcity ( like with the diamonds and Apple phones during launching), I meet briefly one of those used equipment sellers and sorry for painting with a big brush, but they seem to be in the same moral height of the used cars sellers, exceptions notwithstanding.

5) [citation needed]

6) There are really way worse things than a broken power supply, I will consider myself ultra-lucky to get a powerful (semi-modern)SA with a broken power supply. A broken custom ASIC, a broken logic board with obscure CPU and no NVRAM/SRAM content to be found, a broken ultra-wide-band amplifier implemented as an special order transistor on a ceramic section or other unobtanium parts, these are real tragedies.
A broken power-supply is as JACKPOT  as it can be, except bad fuses and having the trigger mode enabled, it can't be better than this.
Sorry, I try not to sound as a pompous a-hole, but who considers a broken power-supply an actual issue in repairing high-end high-frequency complex instruments, it should not attempt doing it.

7) Importing form US/Israel is not actually feasible in Germany, here I agree 169%, except for extraordinary good deals, but I've yet to encounter one.

8-9) Hmm, it will not happen very soon (no beefy CMU200 on horizon for me), and it's clearly not as simple as I made it to be, but CMU200 has a lot of possibilities, of course one needs a rather fully featured unit, with signal generator option at minimum, no I will not generate/read signals form DOS    and the magic will remain in the signal boards, just the front end stuff will be modified to implement new functionality, the modules are actually capable of more, but nobody had any interest in doing it. And actually the set made of the intersection of people that can still reverse some DOS/early Windows drivers/low level stuff and the people that knows that it is/cares/have interest in SAs and measurement instruments and the ones that have time for it and also not enough money to just buy their toys, could very well approach the empty set.  .

 Now my answer is as long as your post, so I'll stop here  .

 Cheers, DC1MC

[rhb]

A comment on old T&M prices. 

I came across an old  guy in Florida who had been buying Tek 475s on eBay, fixing them and selling them.  He got tired of doing it and offered me 8 of them free for pick up.  I was all set to get them, but  decided it was not a project I wanted to take on. I bought a Rigol because I didn't want to even power up my 465.  I've been through the ordeal of using broken scopes to fix broken scopes once already.  Twice was too much. I'd rather focus on what can be done with current COTS devices.

There are a lot of old guys, all over the world, who buy broken gear and fix it.  They don't really care about the fault so long as it is cheap enough.  They've got other units to scavenge parts from.  No cartel, just a bunch of people charging what the market will bear on a working unit.  I doubt they make much money.  More likely they're doing it because they enjoy it.

The cost of test gear has frustrated me my whole life.  Finally as I approach 65, I've decided, the hell with thrift! I'm buying some toys! 

That said, I'm very interested in trying to lower the T&M barrier for hobbyists and solo consultants.  There is a lot of ability out there stymied by lack of access to the requisite tools.

[DC1MC]

Those units are in the homes of hobbyists like yourself, mainly gathering dust.
Your problem is that there are fellow hobbyists with a bigger budget than yours.

Also, bear in mind that a simple refurbished power supply of an HP/Agilent/Keysight spectrum analyzer can cost 1000US$! No wonder that even broken devices are sold at high prices. They are valuable to provide spare parts.

If there was a Rohde & Schwarz spectrum analyzer closing on eBay for 1000 Euro, I would bid right away. And that even though I don't need one. And like myself others would do the same. There is always competition on these devices. Believe me, I have been hunting for years.

Well then, sorry to say, but the hoarders and prestige collectors that are keeping them without using them, are the worst; have one main instrument and a backup one eventually, and try to get the best that you could, that is OK with me. I'm doing the same. When I've got a better instrument/meter than the one  have, after a probation period, the current main meter becomes the back-up meter and the back-up meter is released to whom needs it. Keeping them piled to collect dust, have the capacitors rottening and slowly decaying it's insane, if you think that some obscure module will bring you money in the time of need or it's a safe investment, this is complete crazy, the high purity Krugerrand is a much better and safe investment and occupies less space.

Of course, it's your hard earned cash and you can do what you want with it, but please consider how many ideas didn't come to fruitition because someone could not afford a meter or other instrument to put in practice and how many youngsters got discouraged because "this stuff it's too expensive...". At least consider a mentoring program or just be a Secret Santa for someones that show some potential, myself I'm donating the stuff that got replaced to kids clubs, even if sadly it becomes more and more difficult to find non-cognitively challenged that likes to explore and learn instead of drolling over zuckerstein abomination.
But that's another story, anyway, get into the Christmas spirit and don't bid on stuff that you've already have, I need it more 

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[DC1MC]

Having gone through all this myself.  And I'm in the US!  I'd like to share my interim solution.
8< 8< 8<  ...cuts and more cuts ...

And the prices made a Siglent SSA-3021X look attractive even though I returned one after trying to use it for a week or two.

Hää, huh, what, I've almost missed this gem, so you say that you've got this pearl of Sino-SAs, fresh out of the box,  that has so many wonderful features, big tablet screen, a brazillion of interfaces and even can make nice pictures with mauve and fuchsia traces  , and you've sending it back, eventually preferring some old dusty thing, with possible a CRT green screen and no 1Hz bandwidth, not to mention crushing weight and fan noise  ?!?!?

How come, please do pray tell, what had happened ?

 DC1MC "completly confued"

[G0HZU]

And I want to have a decent SA with TG for a budget of around 1.5KEUR, NO MATTER HOW defective, as long as it's repairable and in the whole bloody EU there is nothing, nothing, fleabay is full of overpriced crap

Try registering at a few 'asset disposal' auction sites? You may find that the actual stuff that is up for auction is stored/displayed in your local area even if the auction company is based far away.

Just a couple of weeks ago there was one local to me (UK) and there were probably a dozen HP spectrum analysers up for auction and they all went fairly cheaply from what I could see. Mostly HP8563E (26GHz) or HP8560E (with TG).

I've got enough spectrum analysers so I didn't bother bidding on any of these but this was an auction selling all of the test equipment (and office furniture) from a local company that was closing down. I think that most of the 8563E analysers went for about £2000 but I may have missed the final selling price as I was bidding on other stuff. I expect that the 8560E models would have been cheaper still and most of the stuff was still in calibration.

I bought a Keithley 2000 bench multimeter for £65 and a few other things. Prices for spectrum analysers like the CRT versions of the HP8563E and HP8560E are falling a lot these days so my advice would be to be patient and try registering at a few auction companies that sell TE regularly. You should be able to buy a fully working one for a good price. If you register early you can often go and inspect and test the lot items in auctions like this.

Also, there aren't many 'decent' SA's that have a TG built in so you are narrowing your choices a lot here IMO.

[Dubbie]

I looked for an SA for over a year. In the end I bought a Siglent which I am very happy with. Since then I have only seen one used SA for sale here in NZ that MAY have been suitable.

I guess if you're not in the US, these things are very rare.

[tautech]

Having gone through all this myself.  And I'm in the US!  I'd like to share my interim solution.
8< 8< 8<  ...cuts and more cuts ...

And the prices made a Siglent SSA-3021X look attractive even though I returned one after trying to use it for a week or two.

Hää, huh, what, I've almost missed this gem, so you say that you've got this pearl of Sino-SAs, fresh out of the box,  that has so many wonderful features, big tablet screen, a brazillion of interfaces and even can make nice pictures with mauve and fuchsia traces  , and you've sending it back, eventually preferring some old dusty thing, with possible a CRT green screen and no 1Hz bandwidth, not to mention crushing weight and fan noise  ?!?!?

How come, please do pray tell, what had happened ?

 DC1MC "completly confued"

Reg just couldn't come to grips with it.
A few of us tried to assist him here on the forum and behind the scenes but he chose to move to greener pastures.
IIRC his main gripe was manuals and saved file formats as he wanted/needed to do further processing of the files.

His use case was beyond what many want and he wasn't confidant the SSA could meet his needs.

[KJDS]

I probably had about 100 spec anas whilst I was dealing test gear. I only ever saw one with a tracking generator

[G0HZU]

Where I work we have loads of high end spectrum analysers and many years ago we tried buying a few HP8560 models with the tracking generator option. Whilst the HP8560 is a really nice analyser with decent phase noise and SFDR, the performance with the TG is disappointing. It would be fine for casually checking a LPF to see where it cuts off or maybe for casually checking a BPF for stopband performance but we stopped asking for the TG option in later years because the performance was so poor in terms of tracking accuracy (vs RBW) and also the levelling wasn't that great.

Over the years we bought (new) the 8560 across all age ranges and CRT models from A to E and the later LCD screen versions and hardly anybody used the TG feature because it was so crude (with high measurement uncertainty and limited dynamic range) when compared to even a basic old school 'TR' network analyser.

[G0HZU]

The other option would be something like the HP4396A/B which is a combined spectrum and network analyser. They are quite dated now and only work up to 1800MHz but they are still in high demand for ATE work.
We used to have over a dozen of them at work but we have disposed of quite a few now. Prices for these on ebay are very high (because of the legacy demand for ATE?)  but I suspect you could find one eventually at a disposal/clearance auction for a low price. I know in the past we have thrown some of them away in the skip if they failed calibration so unwanted/cheap ones are out there.

[DC1MC]

Where I work we have loads of high end spectrum analysers and many years ago we tried buying a few HP8560 models with the tracking generator option. Whilst the HP8560 is a really nice analyser with decent phase noise and SFDR, the performance with the TG is disappointing. It would be fine for casually checking a LPF to see where it cuts off or maybe for casually checking a BPF for stopband performance but we stopped asking for the TG option in later years because the performance was so poor in terms of tracking accuracy (vs RBW) and also the levelling wasn't that great.

Over the years we bought (new) the 8560 across all age ranges and CRT models from A to E and the later LCD screen versions and hardly anybody used the TG feature because it was so crude (with high measurement uncertainty and limited dynamic range) when compared to even a basic old school 'TR' network analyser.

Cool, can I quote you on this ? I mean beggars can't be choosers, and if I collect more of this quotes from respectable long time form members with good credential, I may convince somebody to part of his 8560 for 4-500EUR, I need something like the above stuff:

"The performance of the 8560 TG was at best mediocre when new, now  it's barely usable for the most simple tasks, like imprecisely plotting a filter, even this without too much dynamic range", followed by a detailed technical explanation on why is so bad and why the new stuff is so much better.
The bottom line must be something like: "...frustrated I've finally got rid of the HP8560E for a few hundreds and bought myself a Siglent, unlock it, and couldn't be happier with the large screen, flexible interfaces, high dynamic range and linearity and never looked back to the obsolete useless HP8560E"

If you and/or any other high caliber members are doing it maybe I can convince someone to sell cheap his HP8560E and eventually get the latest wonder, it will be a win-win situation for everybody, I'll get my SA and the previous owner will get a much better instrument, what would you say    ?





 

[Kilo Tango]

There are a  fair number of spectrum analyzers on fleabay tonight, even a couple of R & S ones, although they are faulty.

I found these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Texscan-VSM-5D-Spectrum-Analyzer-4-to-450-MHz/173033122849 and

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tektronix-2754P-Programmable-Spectrum-Analyzer-10-kHz-to-21Ghz/263392160212 Looks basically OK, not the latest thing but if you want to start somewhere

They do come up occasionally, you just got to keep looking. One problem is some people dont bother trying to fix slightly faulty ones but part them out 

Ken

[G0HZU]

Cool, can I quote you on this ? I mean beggars can't be choosers, and if I collect more of this quotes from respectable long time form members with good credential, I may convince somebody to part of his 8560 for 4-500EUR, I need something like the above stuff:

The relatively poor performance of the tracking generator won't really knock much off the price. But have a look at the specs for the 8560 TG option wrt frequency response, port return loss and drift over time vs RBW. I haven't used the TG on an 8560 for many years now (because I know the TG is so poor) but I do remember cursing it when changing RBW and seeing the level change a lot because it wasn't tracking properly. Also the mismatch uncertainty when looking at a typical RF filter is very high because of the relatively poor port match. You can improve this by adding an attenuator inline but this eats into the amount of range it can display at a given RBW.

[DC1MC]

There are a  fair number of spectrum analyzers on fleabay tonight, even a couple of R & S ones, although they are faulty.

I found these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Texscan-VSM-5D-Spectrum-Analyzer-4-to-450-MHz/173033122849 and

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tektronix-2754P-Programmable-Spectrum-Analyzer-10-kHz-to-21Ghz/263392160212 Looks basically OK, not the latest thing but if you want to start somewhere

They do come up occasionally, you just got to keep looking. One problem is some people dont bother trying to fix slightly faulty ones but part them out 

Ken

Oh Ken, come on, even a poor guy like me has standards  , these pre-historical things are nice to make a blog post about repairing them and then donate to a museum or using them for target practice.
If I invest time and money in repairing a device, I want to have something that still have some years of useful measurements, not to be happy that it just detects some carrier.
I was thinking of this guy:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/ANRITSU-MS2651B-Spectrum-Analyzer-9kHz-3GHz-W-Opt-10/222602047479

for which I can forgive him that it doesn't have a TG, and use a noise source or whatever.

The price is just right, but then I've looked on the shipping costs and added the custom tax and German VAT and got depressed, so now I'll go and crawl in a fetal position to dream about affordable SA and other test equipment in EU 

 Have a nice evening everybody, until tomorrow
 DC1MC

[Kilo Tango]

Sigh .......

Or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rohde-Schwarz-FSEB-Spectrum-Analyzer-9-kHz-7-GHz-READ-1/372166843430

looking at it, the problem might be .....



                                                                                                                                    Oh sorry its a bit old


Ken

[Neganur]

He is over charging on international shipping. Shouldn’t cost more than 300$ to ship to Germany

(I meant the Anritsu)

[Kilo Tango]

yes shipping can be a minefield, some sellers charge little on one auction, but a lot more on another auction for the same type of unit.


Some just completely take the ****

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agilent-Keysight-8493C-Coaxial-Fixed-Attenuator-DC-to-26-5-GHz-003dB/371480388041

Ken

[Marco]

And of course, importing them from the US with fleabay global shipping and tax is nice and hassle free, until you observe that the price is now double AND the custom guys still wants you to visit them and chat with you about what is in the parcel and why do you need it.

I've got my scope from Israel and had those pleasure, bonus, prolly now I'm on few lists as well.

Know it's not terribly useful, but I did buy a  relatively heavy scope where Ebay shipping handled customs and it didn't double the price and simply arrived at my doorstep. Even got a large plastic trolley for free, because Ebay's reshipping service in the US randomly added someone else's package to mine (not worth sending back, I do wonder though how no one in the chain ever noticed no one actually paid to ship two pretty large boxes across the Atlantic instead of one ... a lot of international mail seems to work on the honour system).

Tldr, works for me.

[DC1MC]

And of course, importing them from the US with fleabay global shipping and tax is nice and hassle free, until you observe that the price is now double AND the custom guys still wants you to visit them and chat with you about what is in the parcel and why do you need it.

I've got my scope from Israel and had those pleasure, bonus, prolly now I'm on few lists as well.

Know it's not terribly useful, but I did buy a  relatively heavy scope where Ebay shipping handled customs and it didn't double the price and simply arrived at my doorstep. Even got a large plastic trolley for free, because Ebay's reshipping service in the US randomly added someone else's package to mine (not worth sending back, I do wonder though how no one in the chain ever noticed no one actually paid to ship two pretty large boxes across the Atlantic instead of one ... a lot of international mail seems to work on the honour system).

Tldr, works for me.

Well, this is nice but it's juts an anecdote, my bloody FY6600 still didn't arrive yet, even if the seller claims that it's from Germany. Anyway, it's ture, I did see some devices with a reasonable S&H costs to EU.
Sadly, the cool stuff that I was able to found has unreasonable shipping cost and vice-versa 
But I'm an ever hopeful person, something will fall in my lap to help me fulfill my projects.

DC1MC
 
 

[DC1MC]

Sigh .......

Or https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rohde-Schwarz-FSEB-Spectrum-Analyzer-9-kHz-7-GHz-READ-1/372166843430


Ken

Hi Ken, this is indeed a nice device compared with the earlier dinosaurien, assuming it will stay close to the initial bid price (which I doubt, if I'll put it in Gixen, it will go to over 1000, if not, nobody will bid  ).
On the other side, replacing power supply capacitors, OP amps and such, it's work and effort, but doable, not having an original software image to restore it (not to mention the eventual lost feature keys) is another can of worms. Whoever has access to similar devices, either via friends, work colleagues and such, could replace the kaputt HDD or CF card and be done with it. If one doesn't have access to this stuff the repair literally become impossible. But if it says on a reasonable price I'm tempted to try it and pray that he'll pack it really well and the transatlantic trip will not destroy it. For once I'm happy that the customs will intercept it, the local delivery guy don't give a shit about FRAGILE and HANDLE WITH CARE stickers and treat the parcels as sand bags.

 But indeed the device is nice and form óur era, I'm really wondering what hit it  .

 Cheers, DC1MC


 

[DC1MC]

yes shipping can be a minefield, some sellers charge little on one auction, but a lot more on another auction for the same type of unit.


Some just completely take the ****

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Agilent-Keysight-8493C-Coaxial-Fixed-Attenuator-DC-to-26-5-GHz-003dB/371480388041

Ken

Didn't you've heard bout the famous gold padded envelopes  ?!?!?

[cncjerry]

My first was an Advantest R3131a with TG.  Guy had two, one with and one without TG.  He wanted $1500 on Craigslist and I offered
$750.  I hounded him for a year and he finally took my offer.  If you have something like Craigslist locally, try low bids even if they get all pissy, it sets their low boundary and I can't understand why they get upset.  Isn't a low bid better than no bid?

The next three I bought were HP.  HP 8568B with preselector. 8566B and another 8568B.  Yes it is huge but it is very accurate for what I need.  If you keep looking or maybe advertising on your local craigslist analogue, and on here in the WTB section, maybe you'll find one.  Also look at the 8568A models because many have the B upgrades installed and people never put the labels on.  The HP units are easy to fix and if they get to the point where you can't fix it, there are so many RF goodies in them...

You can also do a lot with a dongle as well as an SDR.

[DC1MC]

My first was an Advantest R3131a with TG.  Guy had two, one with and one without TG.  He wanted $1500 on Craigslist and I offered
$750.  I hounded him for a year and he finally took my offer.  If you have something like Craigslist locally, try low bids even if they get all pissy, it sets their low boundary and I can't understand why they get upset.  Isn't a low bid better than no bid?

The next three I bought were HP.  HP 8568B with preselector. 8566B and another 8568B.  Yes it is huge but it is very accurate for what I need.  If you keep looking or maybe advertising on your local craigslist analogue, and on here in the WTB section, maybe you'll find one.  Also look at the 8568A models because many have the B upgrades installed and people never put the labels on.  The HP units are easy to fix and if they get to the point where you can't fix it, there are so many RF goodies in them...

You can also do a lot with a dongle as well as an SDR.

There is just one Craiglist-like that matters in Germany, and even this one was bought by fleabay, compared with the torrent of stuff that you've got in the States, here is almost nothing of interest and when it is, of course everybody jumps on it.

Compare the HP 8568B front on felabay, one single guy in the whole EU, in Belgium, costing 2000EUR and ten+ in the states, not to speak about Canada, starting form 400 something USD, the difference, like in the economic and military power, is so big that it's not even funny to compare:

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=HP%208568B&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=3&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

I can of course see some psychedelic waterfall and curves with the RTL sticks, or I  can even load the a SA app in my phone and whistle in the mike, same useless waste of electricity and oxygen. Strangely enough, usually the people suggesting this lame workarounds usually got one of these POS some months ago and then promptly throw them in a drawer where they're collecting dust.

It's practically the same as in my LA Wanted insert Buy/Sell, everybody says the LA I want (and lost a bid for it here in DE) is some kind of obsolete low memory useless POS, then it admits it actually has one for many years, uses it currently,  and no it's not for sale thank you so much, same as with the SA advice, I got suggestions for Chinese LA "exquisite junk de la merde" and because some German company put a label on it is costing in excess of 1000EUR and doing same as the 79EUR thing form Aliexpress, and doesn't hold a candle to the 12+ yrs old US design. Same as with the SA and other test instruments.
SAs are big deal, but LAs should have been a solved thema by now, how can anybody sell this disgusting crap is inconceivable to me.

 Well then, maybe the sun will rise in my valley sometime, so Merry Christmas or your happy favorite winter solstice celebrations.

[cncjerry]

You're smart enough to know that plotting filters and the like is easy with a noise source so maybe skip the TG and get a plain SA first?

[BU508A]

Please help a poor addict with his addiction.

Have you considered to visit HAM Radio in Friedrichshafen? They have a huge flea market with lots of test gear.

http://www.hamradio-friedrichshafen.de/

I suggest also to have a look at other HAMs with a connected flea market, for example the UKW Tagung in Weinheim:

http://ukw-tagung.org/

Good luck with your search.

Andreas

[nctnico]

Compare the HP 8568B front on felabay, one single guy in the whole EU, in Belgium, costing 2000EUR and ten+ in the states, not to speak about Canada, starting form 400 something USD, the difference, like in the economic and military power, is so big that it's not even funny to compare:

I'd make a sensible offer on the one in Belgium. 2000 euro is way to much for such an old boat anchor. I'd start at 300 euro while pointing towards similar solds items on Ebay. There is a difference between asking price and selling price.

[DC1MC]

Have you considered to visit HAM Radio in Friedrichshafen? They have a huge flea market with lots of test gear.

http://www.hamradio-friedrichshafen.de/

I suggest also to have a look at other HAMs with a connected flea market, for example the UKW Tagung in Weinheim:

http://ukw-tagung.org/

Good luck with your search.

Andreas

I just missed this year F-hafen, but I most certainly plan to go on the next edition, and Weinheim thingy is interesting, has been saved, but there's a bit of time until September.

 Best regards and a nice sliding in the new year
 

[DC1MC]

Compare the HP 8568B front on felabay, one single guy in the whole EU, in Belgium, costing 2000EUR and ten+ in the states, not to speak about Canada, starting form 400 something USD, the difference, like in the economic and military power, is so big that it's not even funny to compare:

I'd make a sensible offer on the one in Belgium. 2000 euro is way to much for such an old boat anchor. I'd start at 300 euro while pointing towards similar solds items on Ebay. There is a difference between asking price and selling price.

I may do it, but I can't decide yet, should I not buy first this beauty:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/PM-3240X-Philips-OSZILLOSKOP/322403990903

Do you think that the seller will accept 185EUR + shipping for it ?!?!?     

So this is example about prices in DE for used gerr.
 

[Neganur]

what about this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HEWLETT-PACKARD-HP-MODEL-8560A-SPECTRUM-ANALYZER-50HZ-2-9GHZ-w-85620A-MEMORY/192372649509

[DC1MC]

what about this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HEWLETT-PACKARD-HP-MODEL-8560A-SPECTRUM-ANALYZER-50HZ-2-9GHZ-w-85620A-MEMORY/192372649509

This one is actually nice, and a reasonable price, even if it seem to be totally dead on the RF part, sadly shipping and VAT will kill it for me and the handling will fully kill it, the parcel handlers here most miserably paid and overworked, that attracts not the best and most careful people, and a package so heavy will have no chance to arrive destroyed. This why very few people import form US to EU, even if selection is huge, and prices are good. Anyways, I'll be looking into some US gear, maybe I'll find something useful after the whole shopping spree season.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[nctnico]

and the handling will fully kill it, the parcel handlers here most miserably paid and overworked, that attracts not the best and most careful people, and a package so heavy will have no chance to arrive destroyed. This why very few people import form US to EU

Please speak only for yourself. I have received lots of equipment from allover the world. If the seller packs it well then nothing goes wrong with it.

[DC1MC]

and the handling will fully kill it, the parcel handlers here most miserably paid and overworked, that attracts not the best and most careful people, and a package so heavy will have no chance to arrive destroyed. This why very few people import form US to EU

Please speak only for yourself. I have received lots of equipment from allover the world. If the seller packs it well then nothing goes wrong with it.

I do speak only for myself, I don't represent or claim to represent anybody else, and unfortunately my experience with heavy devices, even from around here, not overseas, was most sad. I've do have first hand accounts with friends and neighbors having serious problems with shipping damages.

Consider yourself lucky that you've managed to get both responsible suppliers that pack their wares well, and at the end of a delivery chain that treats its customers packages good, but AFAIK this situation is the exception not the rule.
 

[G0HZU]

The other alternative to an auction is to buy an ex rental analyser from a rental company. This can sometimes be a way to get cheap test gear. Every so often the major rental companies sell off some of their test gear and it can be quite cheap. I've bought several items from Livingston/Microlease over the years. The only spectrum analyser I bought from them was a 22GHz HP8566B and that was about 7 years ago. It cost £1000 which was a bargain back then. However, this is the most I've ever paid for a spectrum analyser.

You can expect them to ship it carefully because they ship out (rental) test gear every day and even if it does get trashed in the post they will presumably give you a refund.

[Yansi]

Hello DC1MC, you're just writing as if I was doing so.  Living in a country next to yours, I very well understand your problem. 

[DC1MC]

Hello DC1MC, you're just writing as if I was doing so.  Living in a country next to yours, I very well understand your problem. 

Finally one who understands , I think that the situation could be so much better with a slight adjustment of the laws, for example not on one, but on 3 companies in 2 countries where I've worked, they were DESTROYING the obsolete instruments instead of auctioning, or just give them for free, due to some stupid accounting laws, and with the "harmonized" EU wide stuff, I will not wonder if the situation is the same allover. And I mean REALLY destroying them, with some kind of committee supervising the process  . The only time when I see something on auction sites it's coming from "Insolvenz", that is bankruptcy sales.
 What the whole EU needs are some politicians that will recognize the problem and adjust the laws a bit to support the people to selftrain and start a small business with less barriers to entry, the benefits to the country if they will allow tax-free entry for used equipment, books and other educational stuff will enormously offset what ever customs tax, VAT they get now from these. But that's a whole other story.

[Yansi]

It is better to stop bitching. Neither you nor me is gonna do anything with that. Laws are not to serve you, but the corporate interests. Old equipment is destroyed so new can be made and the money can move (quicker, into someone's pocket).

Your only option is to get advantage of the situation - that is to become also one of the parasites. It is not nice, it is cruel, but will help you survive. It is set just that way.

And btw, I also do not like equipment hoarders too much. But whatever... as a rather poor guy (in terms of money), I can only bitch and whine as you do (you at least have those €1000, not me at all). Lost any hope already. You gotta work with what you got. I was a one fakin' hell lucky to be able to borrow an old and rusty Advantest SA long term. It does not have the features I would like it to have, in fact it is only a very basic SA with no additional features let alone TG (it can't even save an image of the screen, despite having fully digital UI and a floppy drive), but I got it at no cost so I should rather shut up and be glad.
Now I am at the stage of looking for a RF gen. Or maybe building one myself... As the price of anything barely useful for my purpose is way to expensive - how unexpected!

Another funny joke I usually tell is that engineers are divided into two groups: Those who have equipment and those who do electronics. (But this statement is dangerous, as may also be true in some cases.)   

[DC1MC]

It is better to stop bitching. Neither you nor me is gonna do anything with that. Laws are not to serve you, but the corporate interests. Old equipment is destroyed so new can be made and the money can move (quicker, into someone's pocket).

Your only option is to get advantage of the situation - that is to become also one of the parasites. It is not nice, it is cruel, but will help you survive. It is set just that way.

And btw, I also do not like equipment hoarders too much. But whatever... as a rather poor guy (in terms of money), I can only bitch and whine as you do (you at least have those €1000, not me at all). Lost any hope already. You gotta work with what you got. I was a one fakin' hell lucky to be able to borrow an old and rusty Advantest SA long term. It does not have the features I would like it to have, in fact it is only a very basic SA with no additional features let alone TG (it can't even save an image of the screen, despite having fully digital UI and a floppy drive), but I got it at no cost so I should rather shut up and be glad.
Now I am at the stage of looking for a RF gen. Or maybe building one myself... As the price of anything barely useful for my purpose is way to expensive - how unexpected!

Another funny joke I usually tell is that engineers are divided into two groups: Those who have equipment and those who do electronics. (But this statement is dangerous, as may also be true in some cases.)   

Well then, let's be proactive then, get yourself an FY6600, like I did, locate the two main thread about it, and either start improving it or use it as it is, at less than 100EUR it will not break too much your bank.
the FY6600 owners club will welcome you

  Cheers,
  DC1MC

[Yansi]

60MHz is too low.  I need one that will go at least 150MHz and one at least 1.7GHz. But thanks for a tip.

[DC1MC]

60MHz is too low.  I need one that will go at least 150MHz and one at least 1.7GHz. But thanks for a tip.

Well then, maybe I can interest you in one of these:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/High-speed-AD9854-DDS-signal-generator-modul-development-board-Auswertung/152712012446

(I have one, I did a quick test, it works, my next project after the FY6600 is done)

or one of these:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/AD9910-DDS-module-420M-1MSPS-highest-output-sampling-frequency-signal-generator/322071443844
(I intend to buy one wit the previous it's not enough for what I want)

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

[Yansi]

These are rather poor modules, hence why I stated to try building something myself.  At least with half-decent output stages (using a proper balun for the DDS DAC, ALC and attenuator). I know that making even 100MHz half-decent generator is one hell of a work, but when there is no money to buy half-decent stuff and a bunch of AD9951 are already in my component stockpile... what can go wrong? (  )

I already have some ideas how to utilize the AD9951, maybe I will vent those on the forum some time in the future.

[DC1MC]

you're on the right track, looking forward to see your designs 

[G0HZU]

but on 3 companies in 2 countries where I've worked, they were DESTROYING the obsolete instruments instead of auctioning, or just give them for free, due to some stupid accounting laws

Yes, this applies here as well. These accounting rules have been in place for several years now and I've seen some nice test gear get sent for destruction. It can be very frustrating to witness. Before this, I could buy stuff from a company or it was given to me.

However, In the last couple of years I found that there are legit ways to get around this and save the test gear. It depends on how much 'value' the equipment is seen to have as an asset to the relevant company. I've saved several items in the last couple of years complete with the necessary paperwork transferring the items across to me. The best item was an 8GHz Tek RTSA that had an intermittent fault. I got it for free and it is working fine now

[DC1MC]

but on 3 companies in 2 countries where I've worked, they were DESTROYING the obsolete instruments instead of auctioning, or just give them for free, due to some stupid accounting laws

Yes, this applies here as well. These accounting rules have been in place for several years now and I've seen some nice test gear get sent for destruction. It can be very frustrating to witness. Before this, I could buy stuff from a company or it was given to me.

However, In the last couple of years I found that there are legit ways to get around this and save the test gear. It depends on how much 'value' the equipment is seen to have as an asset to the relevant company. I've saved several items in the last couple of years complete with the necessary paperwork transferring the items across to me. The best item was an 8GHz Tek RTSA that had an intermittent fault. I got it for free and it is working fine now

My good man, do share for us EUpeons how you did it, there is still a slim chance to save a LeCroy scope when the time has come !!!

[G0HZU]

Forgive me for being a bit vague but the loophole we found was if the asset could be proven to have zero (or negative value) as an asset. This could be because the repair costs made it BER or if the maintenance/cal costs were more than the asset was worth. I think it can be transferred with no liability in this case. One fear the accountants have is if they sell the asset for a price. This is because it implies it has value and this implies a 'warranty' and maybe the opportunity to sue etc.

[DC1MC]

Forgive me for being a bit vague but the loophole we found was if the asset could be proven to have zero (or negative value) as an asset. This could be because the repair costs made it BER or if the maintenance/cal costs were more than the asset was worth. I think it can be transferred with no liability in this case. One fear the accountants have is if they sell the asset for a price. This is because it implies it has value and this implies a 'warranty' and maybe the opportunity to sue etc.

OK, now I've understand where the fear is, in Germany if you put outside some old TV or toaster to be picked-up by the recyclers in some specific days, you need destroy it or at least cut the power cable or if somebody picks it up, electrokill himself because it was raining inside, they will track the owner and frak him. Now I remember asking why the hell everything was smashed or with the power cable cut.
I could only imagine what nightmare could be for the companies to have this happening , this may be why they are so dead set in destroying the equipment and not selling or offering it for free.
Oh well, more new stuff to be sold then