Why are engineering salaries so poor in the UK? Or, why does the US pay so well?

[IanMacdonald]

In the UK, if you want to make a reasonable living you either need to be self employed or be an 'administrator' -The sort of guy who goes around ticking boxes on a clipboard.

[BNElecEng]

If you look at the original post, you'll see that this is exactly the topic being discussed. I don't believe the company I work for has bad hiring practices, the market simply is what it is.
I personally have a good quality of life with my current salary, so perhaps the cost of living is a lot lower than where you are. I don't have to worry about healthcare for example.

[a59d1]

In the UK, if you want to make a reasonable living you either need to be self employed or be an 'administrator' -The sort of guy who goes around ticking boxes on a clipboard.

It looks like I misspoke. 45 k Pounds is equivalent to about 60 k$ these days, so they are about the same.

[ChunkyPastaSauce]

A driven, excellent EE with an MS from a reputable school in the US has a good chance of making above 50 k$ right out if they apply to a growing company.

It's a lot higher I think, I checked the three 'reputable' public schools in my state and for MSEE median is 70k-90k starting, 100k if taking job out west.

[gildasd]

I have a few secondary school friends who are engineers in the UK and earn enough to own a residence in London. So they must be doing quite well.
One works for an online retailer, another for a Defence contractor and the last one has a private practice (civil engineering if I recall correctly - we tend to talk girls, resulting kids and subsequent boring cars, not work, when we meet).
That said, I do recall the harrowing stories of their University bedsits that made "the Young Ones" seem rather posh.

[a59d1]

A driven, excellent EE with an MS from a reputable school in the US has a good chance of making above 50 k$ right out if they apply to a growing company.

It's a lot higher I think, I checked the three 'reputable' public schools in my state and for MSEE median is 70k-90k starting, 100k if taking job out west.

For sure, but there are only so many jobs at Google and Facebook. There are a few people I know whose starting salaries at FAANG were close to 200 k$. It isn't realistic for everyone to get one of those jobs.

[coppice]

I have a few secondary school friends who are engineers in the UK and earn enough to own a residence in London. So they must be doing quite well.
One works for an online retailer, another for a Defence contractor and the last one has a private practice (civil engineering if I recall correctly - we tend to talk girls, resulting kids and subsequent boring cars, not work, when we meet).
That said, I do recall the harrowing stories of their University bedsits that made "the Young Ones" seem rather posh.

Online retailer probably means a software job.
Defence contractors don't generally pay well, except for software jobs.
Civil engineering has tended to pay fairly well in the UK, although I believe the spread is quite wide.

In the UK a mediocre person in software has tended to earn more than the smartest electronics people since the earliest days of software.

[rhb]

The Plano/Richardson area of DFW is a good location.  Lots of work and housing prices are quite modest.   I bought an older  2500 sq ft house in Plano for $125K in 1993 or so and sold it in 1999 for about the same price just before the dot com bust. According to the papers there were about 80,000 unemployed EEs in the area after the bust.

There was a piece in the paper about a guy who had been making $80k/yr,  had a wife, 2-3 kids, jet skis, fancy cars and a $300-400k house.  After the bust his wife had left him and moved with the kids to her parents and he was living in a homeless shelter.  Everything else was gone.

I also lived there the summer there were 43 days over 100.  About the start of the 2nd week into this, a friend who had come from California said over lunch, "What's the big deal?  We have air conditioning."   To which I responded, "After a few weeks, you get the distinct impression mother nature is trying to kill you."  He ran a tape measure 3 ft straight down  into the cracks in his yard.  It was still over 100 at 10 pm.

[coppice]

The Plano/Richardson area of DFW is a good location.  Lots of work and housing prices are quite modest.   I bought an older  2500 sq ft house in Plano for $125K in 1993 or so and sold it in 1999 for about the same price just before the dot com bust. According to the papers there were about 80,000 unemployed EEs in the area after the bust.

There was a piece in the paper about a guy who had been making $80k/yr,  had a wife, 2-3 kids, jet skis, fancy cars and a $300-400k house.  After the bust his wife had left him and moved with the kids to her parents and he was living in a homeless shelter.  Everything else was gone.

I also lived there the summer there were 43 days over 100.  About the start of the 2nd week into this, a friend who had come from California said over lunch, "What's the big deal?  We have air conditioning."   To which I responded, "After a few weeks, you get the distinct impression mother nature is trying to kill you."  He ran a tape measure 3 ft straight down  into the cracks in his yard.  It was still over 100 at 10 pm.

People in Texas generally think of their house prices as long term stable, because there is little pressure from land shortage. However, prices in Plano are rising now, due to two factors. A lot of Asian engineers have migrated to Dallas, and go for homes in Plano where the better schools are. A number of high profile companies are relocating operations from California to Dallas, and the employees have lots fo cash after selling their Californian homes.

[rhb]

I visited a friend last year for his 60th birthday and was stunned at the development that has taken place north of Plano  in the last 20 years.  I'm sure it has affected home prices as will the next bust.  But relative to California they are much cheaper.

The prices that fluctuate the most are the McMansions.  People buy more house than they can afford for too much money, then there's a bust and the McMansion values collapse. It would appear that buying a McMansion during a bust would be a good deal, but it's not.  They typically are very expensive to heat and cool because of the 30 ft ceilings in much of the first floor area.

[J Chien]

Health care, education, etc., are not for educated foreigners. Paid vacation days are not applicable if you want to be promoted faster. Therefore all favourable in the UK are not suitable for me (and other people like me)

As an Asian, I didn't receive any social benefit (bloody hell). The only reason I stay here is that it's easier to find a job compared to the US (where the visa is harder to obtain).
My friends who went to the US typically earn double the money I can get here.

[vk6zgo]

I have been pretty lucky to own my own TV

What? You own your own TV on an engineers salary. Well mr fancy pants

Does your comprehension often have these "dropouts"?

[voltsandjolts]

I have a couple of uni friends who work in IT in the London finance / banking sector. They earn well into 6 figure salaries. I could probably match them, if I worked 672 hours a week!

To be honest, IT is probably a pivot that most people here could make and do well at, but meh, there is no where near the creativity level required for electronics design, and thats what I enjoy.

[tggzzz]

I have a couple of uni friends who work in IT in the London finance / banking sector. They earn well into 6 figure salaries. I could probably match them, if I worked 672 hours a week!

They need that amount of money. After all they need custom PPE in order to avoid smelling the stench. Think of it as danger money.

[coppice]

I have a couple of uni friends who work in IT in the London finance / banking sector. They earn well into 6 figure salaries. I could probably match them, if I worked 672 hours a week!

To be honest, IT is probably a pivot that most people here could make and do well at, but meh, there is no where near the creativity level required for electronics design, and thats what I enjoy.

The finance sector is pretty much the only thing left in the UK that operates in world class volumes. You can't pay big R&D salaries when you have to spread that NRE over a modest volume of RE. You also can't afford to get they cheapest people when incompetence means millions of units could have a serious recall problem.

[tggzzz]

I have a couple of uni friends who work in IT in the London finance / banking sector. They earn well into 6 figure salaries. I could probably match them, if I worked 672 hours a week!

To be honest, IT is probably a pivot that most people here could make and do well at, but meh, there is no where near the creativity level required for electronics design, and thats what I enjoy.

The finance sector is pretty much the only thing left in the UK that operates in world class volumes. You can't pay big R&D salaries when you have to spread that NRE over a modest volume of RE. You also can't afford to get they cheapest people when incompetence means millions of units could have a serious recall problem.

When that mob eff it up, they solve the problem by jailing the victim. Start with Regina vs Munden, continue for a few decades, and you have the Horizon scandal.

[Zero999]

I think they are equivalent (or even favorable to UK) after you discount the cost of health care, education, paid vacation days, etc.

There is a good documentary called Where to Invade Next, by Michael Moore.

Not really, when the fact that the cost of buying or renting a place in the UK is much higher than the US.

[tooki]

I think they are equivalent (or even favorable to UK) after you discount the cost of health care, education, paid vacation days, etc.

There is a good documentary called Where to Invade Next, by Michael Moore.

Not really, when the fact that the cost of buying or renting a place in the UK is much higher than the US.

Is it though? The cost of housing in USA, especially renting, has skyrocketed the past few years. (Cost of living there in general has.)

I mean… I pay less to rent my apartment in Switzerland’s biggest city, in a desirable downtown area, than an equivalent unit would rent for in Baltimore, where I used to live, which is a decidedly third-rate city on a good day. Never mind a major city like NY, LA, SF, or Miami, where my Zurich rent would pay to sublet a bedroom —  at best.

[SiliconWizard]

If you think engineering salaries are low in the UK, you should come see what it's like in France.

[RJSV]

   Yes rstofer, silicon 'Valley' has all those special housing and freeway congestion issues, to the point now, that literally EVERYONE seems to move eastward, towards Nevada State, creating a weird 'infill' pattern in the Calif. Central valley.  That soil-rich region was supposed to be providing food / agriculture.
Many old friends, retired and moved (away), as I sit, unemployed, approx. 20 miles from the whole, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara city areas (where Intel and various aurospace companies did military or NASA projects.

   Funny thing, many jobs have evaporated, but not traffic congestion.   Traffic congestion, you've got a salary related factor right there, (due to significant stretches of daily time spent).

[EPAIII]

Boy you can say that again about some locations being very expensive to live in. I turned down jobs in California twice because of that. The salary offers were about 25% greater than what I was making at the times, but after my wife and I looked at some local houses in the area, we figured we would just go broke in less than a year. Accepted one offer on Saturday afternoon and called them back on Sunday to reverse that.

California is probably the worse, but there are other areas where a fabulous salary is just a quick path to bankruptcy.

Salaries in the US also vary quite widely between regions and between specific disciplines.  Averages are also dragged up quite a bit by places that pay absurd salaries, particularly in the software market--but many of those salaries lose a bit of their luster when you look at the cost of living you have to deal with to get them.

[GreyWoolfe]

I think they are equivalent (or even favorable to UK) after you discount the cost of health care, education, paid vacation days, etc.

There is a good documentary called Where to Invade Next, by Michael Moore.

Not really, when the fact that the cost of buying or renting a place in the UK is much higher than the US.

Is it though? The cost of housing in USA, especially renting, has skyrocketed the past few years. (Cost of living there in general has.)

I mean… I pay less to rent my apartment in Switzerland’s biggest city, in a desirable downtown area, than an equivalent unit would rent for in Baltimore, where I used to live, which is a decidedly third-rate city on a good day. Never mind a major city like NY, LA, SF, or Miami, where my Zurich rent would pay to sublet a bedroom —  at best.

I live on the east coast of Florida.  Rents for 1 bedroom apartments top $1,000 a month.  Even renting rooms in houses can break $800 depending on location.  3 bedroom house rents can break $2500.  AND, I live in a small town, ~20,000 people a little over an hour away from the Orlando area, not Orlando itself.  When we bought our 3/2 house, 1590 square foot, in 2004, we paid $122,900.  2 years ago we had to have the house appraised again to change homeowner's insurance companies and it was valued at $325,000    No major improvements but a newer roof and AC system and solar panels added.  % wise, my son and daughter-in-laws house has appreciated even more because where they live is an up and coming place to move to, but they still can't buy a larger house because everything in their area has appreciated the same.

[TimNJ]

A driven, excellent EE with an MS from a reputable school in the US has a good chance of making above 50 k$ right out if they apply to a growing company.

It's a lot higher I think, I checked the three 'reputable' public schools in my state and for MSEE median is 70k-90k starting, 100k if taking job out west.

Yes, $50K would be a total insult for an MSEE in the year 2024. In fact, $50K is very close to an insult for a BSEE newgrad in 202. Granted, where I live, it’s very expensive, so I have a skewed perspective.

I remember back 15-20 years ago when my brother was looking at colleges, I remember the number “$60K” floated around as a typical engineering salary. I guess that was a median salary at the time. At any rate, go take a look at an inflation calculator and even go back 5-10years and you’ll see the purchasing power of 50K is probably a lot less than you’re thinking, if your brain is calibrated back a few years.