Why do a lot of electronics engineers end up coding?

[engineerguy]

I don't know if it's just me, but I've observed that a lot of electronics engineers (either recent graduates or not) seem to end up in jobs where the majority of their work involves coding. I'm not talking about just firmware, but even getting into application development, Python, web development...anything not involving electronics. Some of my uni friends since graduating, whilst trying to get into electronics design, a lot of them ended up working as software engineers. Some of them even started in an electronics design role, but transitioned over into programming. Is there a reason for this? Is electronics as a job becoming almost 'obsolete' since there's so much we can do with code when it comes to an ARM board or an FPGA, that designing electronics isn't as highly valued anymore, where you can just use a stock standard circuit to get what you want done? Is electronics the sort of field that runs the risk of being out sourced to another country?

I work as an electronics/hardware engineer for the record, and I enjoy it, but I also find myself wanting to get involved with coding a lot more lately.

[voltsandjolts]

Re: Why do a lot of electronics engineers end up coding?

Because a lot of stuff needs code.

[Brumby]

I would like to think its because the EE training allowed them to intelligently program hardware...

[kony]

Because having "recompile time" in minutes instead of being counted in weeks is easier.

[Rbastler]

Because I can perfectly adapt the firmware to my hardware, since I designed both. Same goes for software.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Rerouter]

For a number of products today, due to the expected complexity, most companies will prefer to approach as much R&D time into the software, rather than the hardware, after all you can  have 1 guy route in a different CPU in under a week, but writing the platform software to accomplish what you need may take a team 2 months the write and validate,

For myself, its because being the only hardware person at my company led me to being the only person who understood the peripherals enough to write software for it, Its surprisingly hard to get a young PC programmer in the mindset or registers and bare bones access, vice versa, I am horrible at PC software.

The other things that come with an electrical engineering background are things like power consideration, that peripherals can run independently of the core, and you know you can add a transistor to invert that signal, rather than writing a software protocol to make the highs a low. Its hard to escape your own knowledge but without background, somethings in a datasheet are very obtuse to understand.

[T3sl4co1l]

Follow the money. There's more software than hardware.

Tim

[tggzzz]

There's no boundary between digital hardware and software, and it is becoming more difficult to distinguish between RF/analogue and software.

Hence people should be competent in both hardware and software, so they can choose the optimum partitioning for their current project.

[coppice]

There's no boundary between digital hardware and software, and it is becoming more difficult to distinguish between RF/analogue and software.

Hence people should be competent in both hardware and software, so they can choose the optimum partitioning for their current project.

That's true, but the big factor is there are several software jobs for each hardware job, and the software jobs generally pay better.

[John Heath]

There's no boundary between digital hardware and software, and it is becoming more difficult to distinguish between RF/analogue and software.

Hence people should be competent in both hardware and software, so they can choose the optimum partitioning for their current project.

That's true, but the big factor is there are several software jobs for each hardware job, and the software jobs generally pay better.

The analog world is slowly being changed to small processors , software. Hardware itself is starting to be replaced with virtual displays of the hardware. The writing is on the wall for the next step. Software engineers. They do not demand overtime and never have sick days off. Good for business. It could be a problem if the end user is also virtual software. These human bags of mostly water will be in way. Maybe they could be moved to farms out in the country along with their winy opinions about how "they" started it all , blah blah blah. 

[DenzilPenberthy]

Reading job adverts here in the UK it seems 'Firmware Engineer' is a solid 50% more salary than 'Electronics Design Engineer'...

[voltsandjolts]

Reading job adverts here in the UK it seems 'Firmware Engineer' is a solid 50% more salary than 'Electronics Design Engineer'...

So if you do both you get 250%, hehe.

[Howardlong]

Follow the money. There's more software than hardware.

Tim

Very true, and it’s been that way since I graduated in the mid 80s.

Despite a long career spent mostly in enterprise software, I only left electronics completely for a few of those years during the early/mid 90s, usually finding odds and sods of electronics work on to keep reasonably current. The biggest changes during my electronics hiatus was the almost compete shift from through hole to surface mount devices, together with massive increases in speed and frequency, plus a few regulatory bits and pieces, but none are insurmountable given a decent grounding (ooops, pun).

I make a living from both, although a couple of times in the past decade I’ve spent significant time (two or three years each time) semi retired, just doing the odd bit of electronics design and product development while my existing products pay their own way and bring in income. It’s far harder to get back into is the enterprise software than it is electronics: the pace of change in enterprise software is just so relentless, skills and marketability for work contracts become stale very quickly.

[tom66]

I design hardware and write the software to control the hardware.  It's the best way to do it for small projects.  Documenting the full hardware interface to a software engineer with no hardware experience is frustrating and error prone.  Plus, if there are issues with the hardware then it becomes very difficult to debug if you don't know how to write code to test that hardware.  Finally, there are some things that are essentially impossible for a pure software engineer to design.  For instance a PID loop boost converter on a microcontroller.  That requires such a tight interface between hardware and software that it would be utterly impractical to develop in any other way.

[Zero999]

They do not demand overtime and never have sick days off. Good for business. It could be a problem if the end user is also virtual software. These human bags of mostly water will be in way. Maybe they could be moved to farms out in the country along with their winy opinions about how "they" started it all , blah blah blah.

I find that very difficult to believe. People writing software will  be under exactly the same stresses as those designing hardware.

Personally speaking, I prefer hardware myself and find software more stressful, so I avoid it. I'm not motivated by money, so that's a non-issue. If my job was more software, I'd probably be taking time off for stress.

[phil from seattle]

There's no boundary between digital hardware and software, and it is becoming more difficult to distinguish between RF/analogue and software.

Hence people should be competent in both hardware and software, so they can choose the optimum partitioning for their current project.

That's true, but the big factor is there are several software jobs for each hardware job, and the software jobs generally pay better.

The analog world is slowly being changed to small processors , software. Hardware itself is starting to be replaced with virtual displays of the hardware. The writing is on the wall for the next step. Software engineers. They do not demand overtime and never have sick days off. Good for business. It could be a problem if the end user is also virtual software. These human bags of mostly water will be in way. Maybe they could be moved to farms out in the country along with their winy opinions about how "they" started it all , blah blah blah.

Perhaps that was all tongue-in-cheek but I see little difference between EE and SDEs in terms of work ethic and salary expectations.

I was a SW Dev Engineer during the transition to software/firmware running everything. At the beginning (late 70s) the EEs sneered at software. Called us "software bunnies". But by 1990, there were a lot fewer electronics being designed that didn't have some sort of software involved. If you didn't have at least some software on your resume, you were at a disadvantage in the job market.  And Wall Street significantly valued SW companies over HW ones.

In the end, the distinction between SW/FW and HW is blurred. With the advent of super cheap microcontrollers, a lot of circuits built with "jellybean" parts are getting replaced by them.  A tiny bit of code and an 8 pin micro can replace multiple 555s, for example.

[tggzzz]

There's no boundary between digital hardware and software, and it is becoming more difficult to distinguish between RF/analogue and software.

Hence people should be competent in both hardware and software, so they can choose the optimum partitioning for their current project.

That's true, but the big factor is there are several software jobs for each hardware job, and the software jobs generally pay better.

The analog world is slowly being changed to small processors , software. Hardware itself is starting to be replaced with virtual displays of the hardware. The writing is on the wall for the next step. Software engineers. They do not demand overtime and never have sick days off. Good for business. It could be a problem if the end user is also virtual software. These human bags of mostly water will be in way. Maybe they could be moved to farms out in the country along with their winy opinions about how "they" started it all , blah blah blah.

Perhaps that was all tongue-in-cheek but I see little difference between EE and SDEs in terms of work ethic and salary expectations.

I was a SW Dev Engineer during the transition to software/firmware running everything. At the beginning (late 70s) the EEs sneered at software. Called us "software bunnies". But by 1990, there were a lot fewer electronics being designed that didn't have some sort of software involved. If you didn't have at least some software on your resume, you were at a disadvantage in the job market.  And Wall Street significantly valued SW companies over HW ones.

In the end, the distinction between SW/FW and HW is blurred. With the advent of super cheap microcontrollers, a lot of circuits built with "jellybean" parts are getting replaced by them.  A tiny bit of code and an 8 pin micro can replace multiple 555s, for example.

It goes much further than that, of course.

Consider microprogrammed (in the original "AMD2900" sense) processors, or the way that the spectre an meltdown alleged workarounds involve changing the way the intel processors execute instructions, or the "Minix buried in the intel processor".

[MT]

Follow the money. There's more software than hardware.
Tim

Very true, and it’s been that way since I graduated in the mid 80s. It’s far harder to get back into is the enterprise software than it is electronics: the pace of change in enterprise software is just so relentless, skills and marketability for work contracts become stale very quickly.

Which sector of enterprise software? All sectors?

[John Heath]

They do not demand overtime and never have sick days off. Good for business. It could be a problem if the end user is also virtual software. These human bags of mostly water will be in way. Maybe they could be moved to farms out in the country along with their winy opinions about how "they" started it all , blah blah blah.

I find that very difficult to believe. People writing software will  be under exactly the same stresses as those designing hardware.

Personally speaking, I prefer hardware myself and find software more stressful, so I avoid it. I'm not motivated by money, so that's a non-issue. If my job was more software, I'd probably be taking time off for stress.

I did not express that the best way. A virtual engineer that is just a software program. Now we do not have to pay him or it. It happens slowly. a information technologist , IT guy , was in high demand in the past being on the leading edge of technology. Today this job is done by high school kids working part time. Part of the reason is software itself and standards are replacing the IT guy. He has not been 100 percent replaced by software but he is being handed his hat.

[engineerguy]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies. My main point that I may have not made clear was why some electronics engineers end up going out of the field, and just become programmers/SE? I realise firmware programming is a proper function of an electronics design engineer...but some seem to just totally leave the field, and up doing solely C, or something non-electronics related, such as Python, C++, etc.

[Messtechniker]

Simply because many functions which used to be run by hardware are today run by software.
This reduces the component count and increases the number code lines. Its as simple as that.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Over here, there seems to be a spiral of decline in hardware. Employers want engineers skilled in specific areas, and are not really willing to do much training. Then they struggle to find engineers even with basic skills. People coming with electronics qualifications fail to even apply Ohms law. That leads to electronics design being outsourced, either as whole design or at a module level. With less jobs around, there is even less incentive for students to take it as career path.

The ratio of hardware to software engineers means that there more career opportunities in software, and the barrier to entry is a lot lower - no qualifications needed, just aptitude.

[VK3DRB]

Follow the money. There's more software than hardware.

Tim

If you are a electronics engineer doing hardware just for the money, you are in the wrong job and probably not much good anyway. The best hardware engineers are there because they have a passion for hardware engineering first and foremost. I hire "volunteers", not "conscripts".

As far as skill goes, from my observations many hardware engineers make poor programmers although there are some exceptions, mainly because they have never learnt the art of programming. Yes good programming is an art, accompanied by discipline, knowledge and skill. Some while back, a hardware engineering colleague said, "No-one cares how the firmware looks or if it is readable, as long as it works." How VERY wrong - and unprofessional.

In Australia, experienced hardware design electronics engineers get paid pretty much the same as experienced firmware developers by the way.

[paulca]

Because software engineers rule the world.  Each is his own deity.   Why do  you need to ask mortal?

[BravoV]

Reading job adverts here in the UK it seems 'Firmware Engineer' is a solid 50% more salary than 'Electronics Design Engineer'...

Is it also possible because from employer's POV, a nice computer with nice screen and nice keyboard and heck a really nice mouse too, for the coder/programmer are still much-much cheaper, than a full fleet of electronics T&M equipments such as scope, PSUs, SA, LA, DMM, various niche probes and etc for the EE ?  Better they get outsourced ?

As bean counter always said when looking at the GL .... asset depreciation stinks ... 

<duck n run away>