Why do I already not like Star Trek Discovery?

[calexanian]

I feel like Star Trek Discovery is coming at us like a truck full of total dissapointment and its brakes are cut. I know this will corrupt my ability to fairly assess it. I liked The Orville though. I find myself looking forward to watching them and was saddened that it will only be a 13 episode season.

Anybody else feel the same way?

[BrianHG]

This is just so much better:
https://www.youtube.com/user/StarTrekContinues
They now have 9 episodes and only 2 left since CBS have put an end to any newer fan releases.
This one is also fairly good, but, more battles:
https://www.youtube.com/user/startrekphase2DE

It's sad when a bunch of enthusiasts come together and for non-profit create better art than the big studios.

[Electro Detective]

FWIW, when the new sci-fi stuff sucks (and a lot of it does )

I do the re-run thing 

BUT... some newies are really good, and the only way to find out is to plough through the lot, till you hit on a gem

[Kjelt]

I always liked Star Trek but the tendency in new tv shows is to make it appealing for the entire family.
That is just putting so much water with the wine it tastes like crap.
Hard cold cool SciFi is good very tasty,  combined with (female) drama and romance its getting a bad taste , adding teens with (super)powers makes it uneatable.
Lets see what this is.

[tszaboo]

I feel like Star Trek Discovery is coming at us like a truck full of total dissapointment and its brakes are cut. I know this will corrupt my ability to fairly assess it. I liked The Orville though. I find myself looking forward to watching them and was saddened that it will only be a 13 episode season.

Anybody else feel the same way?

my two bobs worth
Star Trek, Star wars , Disney . political correctness is killing sci fi & hollywood nowadays.
.

Star Trek was always leading edge on political correctness. If you think about the Kirk Uhura kiss, Janeway as lead in Voyager, Sisko lead in DS9. And the covered topics, like extending human rights to aliens androids, or holograms. The thing is: You dont need to overdo it.
It has aliens. Adding a Chinese an indian an arab and a black character does not increase the diversity. You dont need to add him/her because the universe has aliens. You cant get more diverse than that. Add an andorian. Add a vulkan. Add a Xindi, who procreates with eggs. I dont care if all the caracters are white on a ship, and they are played excellently. I care about that Sonequa Martin-Green is an annoying awful actor, and I was happy when they killed her off from another series I was watching. And the topic of the episodes shouldn't be " look he is gay and we are fine with it lets talk about that" but "starship shoots frazer boom".

[CatalinaWOW]

I haven't really seen it, since my only contact was on video screens at the local burger and brew joint, with sound turned of and subtitles.  But it sure didn't motivate me to go search it out and view it for real.

The plus :Spaceships seemed sleek. 

The minuses :Acting seemed wooden.  Aliens haven't progressed since 1960s in spite of CGI advances.  Sets and costumes were tired updates.  Plot seemed a simple rehash of already overused plot lines. 

[Ampera]

Star Trek has been on the side of decent movements that have ACTUALLY brought equality to the modern world. What is the scary part is the SJWs that are trying to push their bullshit montras as equality, with a sad number of publications licking it up and virtue signalling as hard as they can.

I am fine with adding diversity to a cast, and trying to be inclusive, I am just afraid of a Star Trek Discovery - All white people are racist edition.

[calexanian]

I don't believe anybody sane has any problem with diversity. I am worried they are going to walk all over 50 years of cannon.

[lordvader88]

Wow never heard of this. I miss DS9 and Voyager era

[tszaboo]

I haven't really seen it,

Isn't the release date next month or something?

[nctnico]

I haven't really seen it,

Isn't the release date next month or something?

According to IMDB the 25th of september. That is on a monday so it seems it didn't got a prime-time timeslot which may be a good sign.

[AF6LJ]

Staying away from the Idiot box, (the IQ reducer) the TV until something worth watching comes on is actually a good plan of attack in dealing with the intense stupidity, and PC fatigue that comes with the one eyed window into the moronic universe.The Orville was good, bordering on stupid, but most comedy is a balancing act between humor and stupidity.

The Star Trek fan stuff is fun but hard to take serious, clearly amateur productions.
Star Trek Discovery will be interesting and has potential.

I was one of the few that thought Star Trek The Next Generation was five seasons of flogging a dead horse, and the NG movies were a let down....
Deep Space Nine was good, the other two series were reasonably good.
Lets hope the Borg don't pay a visit in Discovery.....
(that would be overusing a good foe)

[madires]

For Trekkies only: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.de/

Besides the fan made movies and film series there are also good audio dramas.

[TerraHertz]

I guess everyone has noticed there's been an amazing explosion of indie short SF movies on Youtube the last few years? Seems like home-studio level CGI has reached a quality to rival Hollywood.
Some of the storylines are crap, but sometimes they are gems. Here's a nice one I found a few days ago:
 
"SEAM" - by Master Key Films
Once you watch a few of these indie SF things, lots more show up in your feed.

[AF6LJ]

I guess everyone has noticed there's been an amazing explosion of indie short SF movies on Youtube the last few years? Seems like home-studio level CGI has reached a quality to rival Hollywood.
Some of the storylines are crap, but sometimes they are gems. Here's a nice one I found a few days ago:
 
"SEAM" - by Master Key Films
Once you watch a few of these indie SF things, lots more show up in your feed.

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.
Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise. 

[tszaboo]

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.
Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

You realize that movies dont cost as much, as they say on the IMDB page? They inflate those numbers artificially, so there is no profit, so you dont have to pay after the profit. You make a 20 million movie, and you inflate the number with CGI, marketing, and other bogus, very hard to verify costs. And then the total cost is 200 million. And the movie makes 250 million. Hollywood got very good at accounting. And the tech industry also. And the banking also. And the US government also.

[Kjelt]

@Terrahertz, wrong example fx done by fx3x studios from Macedonia that also did some hollywood blockbusters ( parts of)

[AF6LJ]

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.
Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

You realize that movies dont cost as much, as they say on the IMDB page? They inflate those numbers artificially, so there is no profit, so you dont have to pay after the profit. You make a 20 million movie, and you inflate the number with CGI, marketing, and other bogus, very hard to verify costs. And then the total cost is 200 million. And the movie makes 250 million. Hollywood got very good at accounting. And the tech industry also. And the banking also. And the US government also.

What they cost makes no difference, the quality is crap, and the community they come out of is not what I would consider to be a healthy environment.
Like I said; Hollywood is a town full of degenerates.

[Electro Detective]

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.

Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

Who can debate that ?   

Although I believe the bar got lowered to floor level 10 years ago,
most of the the crap is unwatchable past the first 10 minutes (if you can last that long),
the CGI poor, and the actards mumbling their lines and pretending to be serious is abysmal   

[BrianHG]

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.
Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

You realize that movies dont cost as much, as they say on the IMDB page? They inflate those numbers artificially, so there is no profit, so you dont have to pay after the profit. You make a 20 million movie, and you inflate the number with CGI, marketing, and other bogus, very hard to verify costs. And then the total cost is 200 million. And the movie makes 250 million. Hollywood got very good at accounting. And the tech industry also. And the banking also. And the US government also.

What they cost makes no difference, the quality is crap, and the community they come out of is not what I would consider to be a healthy environment.
Like I said; Hollywood is a town full of degenerates.

It's not that the quality is scrap, it's that the chosen scripts are pitiful and purely chosen on profit motive instead of something truly creative and original (Which would actually be more profitable...).  None of the execs have the backbone to bring us good movies.  And worse, since it a closed system where they control what the theaters show, and were stuck with this un-imaginative crap.
Your only choice is reading novels (Which unfortunately I can't do...), or hope for something from the public community generated movies somehow becomes noticed and available, which it is in Hollywood's best interest to keep hidden and crush out of existence, which they actively do unless they can profit from it...

[Psi]

I feel like Star Trek Discovery is coming at us like a truck full of total dissapointment and its brakes are cut. I know this will corrupt my ability to fairly assess it. I liked The Orville though. I find myself looking forward to watching them and was saddened that it will only be a 13 episode season.

Anybody else feel the same way?

Rewatch B5 instead, or start watching The Expanse

[BrianHG]

I guess everyone has noticed there's been an amazing explosion of indie short SF movies on Youtube the last few years? Seems like home-studio level CGI has reached a quality to rival Hollywood.
Some of the storylines are crap, but sometimes they are gems. Here's a nice one I found a few days ago:
 
"SEAM" - by Master Key Films
Once you watch a few of these indie SF things, lots more show up in your feed.

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.
Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

2K$ of equipment to compete with Hollywood quality production?  I don't think so.  Even the link above I listed for 'Star Trek Continues', had over 100k$ US invested just to replicate 70's special effects.  They had to go through the trouble of finding an entire orchestra to record the music score.  Even though the recording location, musicians & recording equipment for just the music of the sound track well exceeded 2k$.  Never mind all the camera equipment, sound equipment, stage set, lighting equipment, film location, costumes/clothing, makeup, OMG, I can go on....  Whether it's rental or purchase, this goes way beyond 2k$.  Even if you are making a 'silent' 3D rendered short movie, just the production software tools, never mind the PCs involved wont get you anywhere close to a Hollywood quality product.

For 2k$, you can get a good microphone, build a sound proof recording booth, and a good PC with good animation software and you might be able to create a Hollywood quality animated movie.

[AF6LJ]

I guess everyone has noticed there's been an amazing explosion of indie short SF movies on Youtube the last few years? Seems like home-studio level CGI has reached a quality to rival Hollywood.
Some of the storylines are crap, but sometimes they are gems. Here's a nice one I found a few days ago:
 
"SEAM" - by Master Key Films
Once you watch a few of these indie SF things, lots more show up in your feed.

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.
Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

2K$ of equipment to compete with Hollywood quality production?  I don't think so.  Even the link above I listed for 'Star Trek Continues', had over 100k$ US invested just to replicate 70's special effects.  They had to go through the trouble of finding an entire orchestra to record the music score.  Even though the recording location, musicians & recording equipment for just the music of the sound track well exceeded 2k$.  Never mind all the camera equipment, sound equipment, stage set, lighting equipment, film location, costumes/clothing, makeup, OMG, I can go on....  Whether it's rental or purchase, this goes way beyond 2k$.  Even if you are making a 'silent' 3D rendered short movie, just the production software tools, never mind the PCs involved wont get you anywhere close to a Hollywood quality product.

For 2k$, you can get a good microphone, build a sound proof recording booth, and a good PC with good animation software and you might be able to create a Hollywood quality animated movie.

Just a wild guess on my part, I have seen Star Trek Continues and his content is good.
As can be seen I have a low opinion of Hollywood, it's well past its prime. 

[AF6LJ]

Considering how low the bar has been set in Hollywood the last five years or so, it is no wonder with $2000.00 worth of gear the home hobbyist can produce Hollywood quality productions.

Hollywood has become lazy and abandoned all creativity, with a whole industry full of degenerates this is no surprise.

Who can debate that ?   

Although I believe the bar got lowered to floor level 10 years ago,
most of the the crap is unwatchable past the first 10 minutes (if you can last that long),
the CGI poor, and the actards mumbling their lines and pretending to be serious is abysmal   

Too much profit motive, too many degenerates still in the industry, too many recycled scripts.
Rumor has it The Matrix is the next script to be recycled....

[Marco]

Star Trek was always leading edge on political correctness.]

I don't mind much, as long as it doesn't get preachy on contemporary real world topics. Just present your communist utopian society as is and move on from there. Unfortunately, they seem to want to screw with that and go full retard :

“I think that would be fantastic,” he said. “As far as a Muslim character, I think it needs to happen. The bridge and the hallways of the starship should represent who we are as a world.”

Yeah, let it be a girl and have her convert to marry someone either to show how far Islam can progress or to show the consequences of who we are in the world. Oh wait of course not, it's just to show a white washed reality and pretends that's the one which exists in the real world, while carefully treading around the sensitivities of real world Muslims so they don't get restless.

Maybe they'll find some way to beat on white straight men specifically too.

[tszaboo]

Look, it is probably not going to be:
"This is Lieutenant Mohamed Alla Ackbar from the USS Gay Pride. Prepare the rectal probes. We need to help these refugee ships!"
Right? If it will be like that, then you press the red button on the remote control, I press the red button, and so will everyone else. Then they cancel it in season 2, and few years later Rick Berman and Brannon Braga will say that it is not canon. Then they just copy all the info from Memory Alpha to Memory Beta, and we will live long and prosper.

They have Rainn Wilson (he is great in the office!) in 9 episodes out of 15. Playing Harry Mudd. Now, I know, Harry Mudd is kinda lame in the TOS, but all the episodes were this character was present were more silliness than seriousness.
And I dont have a problem with gods is ST. They met Apollo, Q, the things in the wormhole, the caretaker. All of them were god figures.

[Marco]

Right?

It would likely be a completely inoffensive representation of Islam.

To pick Islam as the one contemporary religion represented in a communist society which freed itself from all religions because it was holding them back, would be enough for me to turn it off immediately. Especially when it gets shown with all the rough edges conveniently never coming up. Not a reformed Islam, reformation is apostasy and apostasy means death, just one carefully accommodated by the writers to not have to show its dark side.

Most likely no matter how far he gets to drift off canon otherwise he won't get to do this though ... thank god for inertia.

[nctnico]

I like the idea that they continue where ST Enterprise left (too quickly). I hope they manage to get 4 or 5 seasons out of ST Discovery if it is any good.

[AF6LJ]

I like the idea that they continue where ST Enterprise left (too quickly). I hope they manage to get 4 or 5 seasons out of ST Discovery if it is any good.

Lets hope so, I really like the concept and they made the concept believable.

[A Hellene]

[...]
Unfortunately, they seem to want to screw with that and go full retard :
[...]

Same old same old...

While Hollywood-culture (this unofficial but extremely efficient also form of mass 'education') agenda was sneakingly promoting Judaism in the Star Trek of the Sixties, today is for Islam and 'diversity' (see the SJW's agenda).

Nothing has really changed, since the famous Star Trek's Vulcan handshake (that so many naive people have been using for decades without having even a clue of its true meaning), known in certain circles as the priestly benediction*, was introduced to the masses in the original Star Trek series by Mr. Spock, a fictional extraterrestrial character impersonated by Leonard Nimoy.

Enjoy the resourceful Leonard Nimoy in his February 2004 interview: 'In Search of Shekhina'.

In 1966 Star Trek went on the air, and I’m playing a Vulcan. [...] So I said to the director, ‘Wouldn’t it be good if I do something special that Vulcans do when they greet?’ And he said, “Well, what do you have in mind?’ [...] So I reached back into my Orthodox childhood and I remembered an experience that I had when I was eight years old. [...] There comes a moment in the service when the kohanim—the descendants of Aaron, the members of the priestly tribe, get up to bless the congregation. [...] So I said to the director, “How about if Vulcans do that? He said “OK.”

[ * ] Priestly benediction is a priestly invoking of the (polytheistic, pre-Babylonian) Judaic female goddess of wisdom Shekhinah, an adaptation of the pre-existing Hellenic goddess of wisdom Athene, which Christianity (Judaism's first offspring, of the fourth century CE) called 'The Holly Spirit' later in time. I guess that the female goddess of wisdom in Islam (Judaism's second offspring, of the seventh century CE) must be infibulated, if still exists...
Oh, my dearest, poor Athene...


-George

[TerraHertz]

After numerous delays, the CBS All Access series Star Trek Discovery is now set to premiere on September 24th of 2017. The road there has been and continues to be mired in controversy.

While the series so far has avoided the critical spotlight off the mainstream media, ever more information has slipped through the cracks and will be revealed here.

In this video we will cover the most recent press releases and news articles about Discovery, examine the continued claims that Discovery takes place in the prime timeline, look at how CBS and Paramount have responded to fan skepticism, and finally, reveal more details about how the as of now unknown Star Trek incarnation Nicholas Meyer’s is working could be set to replace “Star Trek: Discovery”.

tldr: Copyright f*cks up everything, again.

[AF6LJ]

Yes copyright does F-up Things, but then again that and the ST Cannon are what brought decent follow on series.
A few thoughts...........
I like gritty, I loved the BSG reboot, it was gritty and was easy to suspend reality and enjoy the series, and it had a happy and believable ending.

I am sick and tired of the Prime Universe, it is overused, creativity is held hostage in favor of the fifty year old orthodoxy.

I think it is time to set the Prime Universe aside and move on....

[Marco]

This time with no time travel and no multiple worlds please, that's only good for short stories.

[calexanian]

I actually just finished re watching B5. It was just as good as I remembered. I also tried re watching the Edward James Olmos BSG and I could not get through it. It just did not hold me. 

[AF6LJ]

I actually just finished re watching B5. It was just as good as I remembered. I also tried re watching the Edward James Olmos BSG and I could not get through it. It just did not hold me.

I am just the opposite.
I like the BSG reboot and found B5 to be hard to stay interested in...

[A Hellene]

Ah! My fondest Battlestar Galactica memories!

...regarding the homonymous handheld game I purchased in NYC in 1980:



Just see that beautiful, vintage, quad in-line package (QILP?) inside!

It can be also noticed that the horizontal navigation switch is different from the power switch; that's because the original ON-OFF-ON switch broke down and I couldn't find a similar one to replace it with, thus the rocker switch replacement...

Thank you both for the nostalgic trip down memory lane,
-George

[AF6LJ]

How Fun.

[TerraHertz]

Ha ha ha!
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/71dgkz/virtue_signaling_fail/

Virtue signaling fail.    Star Trek Discovery - that you were NOT the first. By a long way.

[AF6LJ]

Ha ha ha!
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/71dgkz/virtue_signaling_fail/

Virtue signaling fail.    Star Trek Discovery - that you were NOT the first. By a long way.

Some people have short memories.......................

[nctnico]

Yes copyright does F-up Things, but then again that and the ST Cannon are what brought decent follow on series.
A few thoughts...........
I like gritty, I loved the BSG reboot, it was gritty and was easy to suspend reality and enjoy the series, and it had a happy and believable ending.

IMHO BSG went off the rails during the second season and it never got back on track. I watched but only to know how it ended.

[AF6LJ]

Yes copyright does F-up Things, but then again that and the ST Cannon are what brought decent follow on series.
A few thoughts...........
I like gritty, I loved the BSG reboot, it was gritty and was easy to suspend reality and enjoy the series, and it had a happy and believable ending.

IMHO BSG went off the rails during the second season and it never got back on track. I watched but only to know how it ended.

I understand...
It departed considerably from the first series..

[nctnico]

On topic: if ST Discovery dissapoints there is a less serious (better put: way less serious) new space-sci-fi series called 'the orville'.

[BrianHG]

On topic: if ST Discovery dissapoints there is a less serious (better put: way less serious) new space-sci-fi series called 'the orville'.

Saw the first 2, it's saaaaaaddddddddd......   They cannot go all in on the comedy and are trying to make some degree of seriousness.  It just doesn't work.  Seth MacFarlane is trying to make a live SciFi Family Guy and the show is too concentrating on making the comedy SciFi look like a real SciFi.

[gnavigator1007]

I'd honestly rather have another Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda 

[AF6LJ]

On topic: if ST Discovery dissapoints there is a less serious (better put: way less serious) new space-sci-fi series called 'the orville'.

Well...
I missed it last night, was it any good???

[BrianHG]

On topic: if ST Discovery dissapoints there is a less serious (better put: way less serious) new space-sci-fi series called 'the orville'.

Well...
I missed it last night, was it any good???

The orville was on for the past 2 weeks.
ST Discovery was on last night, no comment yet, give it at least 3 episodes......  Though the new Klingons speak as if they are mentally handicapped...

[calexanian]

I actually liked the first episode, then i signed up and watched the second one. I liked it a lot more when it was free. The Klingons, as said before, seem like there is something wrong with them.

All throughout the viewing all I could think was the product development mantra. A camel is a horse designed by a committee.

[AF6LJ]

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

[tszaboo]

Everyone can relax now, this is not star trek, false alarm. Its like all the logic, the rules the lore and everything went out of the window.

Spoiler Alert







Spoiler Alert
Seriously, they do a race vs culture discussion in S01E01. Bridge is on the bottom of the ship. And they send out the first officer in an EV suite on a dangerous mission (shuttle pods DOH!). They start the series by starfleet officers (captain + first officer, against regulations) shooting a phase cannon (no phase cannons in that era). And meeting a klingon in S01E01, not knowing immedieatly what it is and attacking it. How original. No other show did that. Except in enterprise, they did everything to save the klingon, here it is " charge proton rocket launcher and kill them all, before they see us"

And we had fight between officers, first officer assaulting captain, captain threatening first officer with a phaser. Instead of saying "you are relieved of duty, leave the bridge". I mean what the hell. Did they see any episodes before? Is there anyone who knows ST sitting at the writers table and screaming "that is not how ST works"

Its like Star trek XI again. They show London, and it is not raining. You cannot change things like this.

[Kjelt]

The first reviews are positive, looks like I am going to watch and follow this.

[TerraHertz]

So, Star Trek, as interpreted by graduates of the Common Core education disaster? Projecting onto all the characters, especially Klingons?

Everyone can relax now, this is not star trek, false alarm. Its like all the logic, the rules the lore and everything went out of the window.

Spoiler Alert







Spoiler Alert
Seriously, they do a race vs culture discussion in S01E01. Bridge is on the bottom of the ship. And they send out the first officer in an EV suite on a dangerous mission (shuttle pods DOH!). They start the series by starfleet officers (captain + first officer, against regulations) shooting a phase cannon (no phase cannons in that era). And meeting a klingon in S01E01, not knowing immedieatly what it is and attacking it. How original. No other show did that. Except in enterprise, they did everything to save the klingon, here it is " charge proton rocket launcher and kill them all, before they see us"

And we had fight between officers, first officer assaulting captain, captain threatening first officer with a phaser. Instead of saying "you are relieved of duty, leave the bridge". I mean what the hell. Did they see any episodes before? Is there anyone who knows ST sitting at the writers table and screaming "that is not how ST works"

Its like Star trek XI again. They show London, and it is not raining. You cannot change things like this.

[Corporate666]

Everyone can relax now, this is not star trek, false alarm. Its like all the logic, the rules the lore and everything went out of the window.

Spoiler Alert

Seriously, they do a race vs culture discussion in S01E01. Bridge is on the bottom of the ship. And they send out the first officer in an EV suite on a dangerous mission (shuttle pods DOH!). They start the series by starfleet officers (captain + first officer, against regulations) shooting a phase cannon (no phase cannons in that era). And meeting a klingon in S01E01, not knowing immedieatly what it is and attacking it. How original. No other show did that. Except in enterprise, they did everything to save the klingon, here it is " charge proton rocket launcher and kill them all, before they see us"

And we had fight between officers, first officer assaulting captain, captain threatening first officer with a phaser. Instead of saying "you are relieved of duty, leave the bridge". I mean what the hell. Did they see any episodes before? Is there anyone who knows ST sitting at the writers table and screaming "that is not how ST works"

Its like Star trek XI again. They show London, and it is not raining. You cannot change things like this.

I couldn't disagree more - and based on the reviews, I think most people disagree and think ST:Discovery is really good, because it is!

Regarding your complaints...

*spoilers*

-What's the issue with the race vs culture thing?  It's reminiscent of Kirk's objection in The Undiscovered Country - that Klingons know only war and we have to be brutal or be destroyed.
-What's the problem with the bridge location?  These are ships that operate in 3 dimensions, it could be deep in the center of the ship and wouldn't matter. 
-I agree it was hard to imagine they would send a first officer in a spacesuit to investigate an unknown object, but they explained why they can't use a ship for it. 
-They didn't immediately attack the Klingon - it was self defense.
-The 1st officer was advocating a preemptive attack, but that didn't happen.  Again, no different than Kirk's attitude towards Klingons.
-Not sure what your beef is with the captain pointing the phaser at the first officer.  Such power struggles after disobeying orders have been done *dozens* of times across ST series!

*END SPOILERS*

It sounds like you hated it before you ever watched an episode.  I think this ST is great! 

For anyone who hasn't seen it, give it a shot.  One of my beefs with things like Star Wars was that they tried to soften it and add too much humor and make it child friendly.  When Disney took over, the grit came back.  That's what this new ST series does - brings back the grit.  It is not individual episodes which stand on their own, but rather one big story arc that spans the whole season, similar to what DS9 did with the Dominion or Voyager did with the Borg.  And that's a good thing - they were running very thin on ideas with stand-alone episodes.

The imagery and special effects are absolutely fantastic - on par with the best of any of the movies.  The lead character is great too - complex and interesting and definitely not an in-your-face SJW pandering character.  The story is just unfolding, but it seems to be good - without spoiling, it's clear that the series will chronicle the resurgence of the Klingon empire as they enter a galaxy-wide confrontation with the Federation.  Much like the newest ST movies with Chris Pine, it's clear the writers aren't burdening themselves with remaining totally true to the canon of the old series.  They aren't being ridiculous like inventing entire new universes, but (for example) they aren't trying to make their technology look the same as The Old Series. 

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it - unless you're one of those folks that already dislikes it and is just looking for things to shit on about the series.  It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

[calexanian]

I re watched. After the special effects wore off, it was pretty terrible. They really just needed to let the okudas produce it and have veterans direct it.

[BrianHG]

I re watched. After the special effects wore off, it was pretty terrible. They really just needed to let the okudas produce it and have veterans direct it.

You got it....

[stmdude]

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it - unless you're one of those folks that already dislikes it and is just looking for things to shit on about the series.  It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

Exactly my thoughs as well. Thanks for saving me the typing.

In my opinion, none of series got good until at least the second season. Heck, in my opinion, DS9 took 3-4 seasons until it got enjoyable.

[Fungus]

I feel like Star Trek Discovery is coming at us like a truck full of total dissapointment and its brakes are cut. I know this will corrupt my ability to fairly assess it. I liked The Orville though. I find myself looking forward to watching them and was saddened that it will only be a 13 episode season.

I only found out about it yesterday so I had no expectations. I watched the premiere and it was mostly just two hours of "Starship Commanders" having hissy fits and acting like 16 year old girls.

[Fungus]

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it

If you think 'Voyager' and 'DS9' is Star Trek then I can how you might be confused.

It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

Nice summary of the problem.

Did they explore anything or seek out new worlds and civilizations?

Would a real starship bridge have dramatic lighting like that or would it give people headaches?

[tszaboo]

I couldn't disagree more

I'm sorry, I'm not going to strawman your arguments, it is a dick move. I just voiced my opinion that the series is not faithful at all to the origins it claims to belong. I had much much bigger problems with the series than the ones in this argument.
It is missing the core points of ST, and it tries to mimic it's looks. Look at the communicator. That is an exact replica of the original series. And a bunch of other props are brought in too. And if you couple this with all the new gadgets, it becomes a big ol' mess. You cannot mix technologies that look 60 years apart.
And the characters act nothing like they are supposed to. Klingons dont collect the dead after a battle. It is an empty shell to them. ST officers dont booby trap fallen soldiers, because that is savage and un civilized. Also, they dont blow up their own ship just to damage other ship. In fact, the captain would stay on a ship as long as necessary to make sure everyone under his/her command could get to escape pods.
And yes. Shield are holding, hull breach on every single deck.
Federation ships are always well lit, functional. Not this dark, reflective shiny blue.
There is a modern ST, which remained faithful. Enterprise. It doesnt even have the federation, but it was more reflecting the core values of it. This is the ST wrtiitten by someone, who only saw the mirror universe episodes.

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it - unless you're one of those folks that already dislikes it and is just looking for things to shit on about the series.  It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

Exactly my thoughs as well. Thanks for saving me the typing.

In my opinion, none of series got good until at least the second season. Heck, in my opinion, DS9 took 3-4 seasons until it got enjoyable.

Yes, DS9 (The Dominion), the TNG (Shut up Wesley) and even the Enterprise (The Xindi) took some time to become a good series.

[Fungus]

And the characters act nothing like they are supposed to.

This.

A senior officer on a starship would be the ultimate in professionalism at all times. None of the officers shown yesterday were, not at any time, even the captain. The ship was in danger. She should have thrown the first officer off the bridge the very first time she invaded her personal space and called her by her first name in front of the crew (which the first officer would never have done in the first place - because she'd be a professional).

The ship didn't seem practical/functional at all. The bridge lighting was a complete joke.

There was no sense of protocol on board, eg. They weren't even at amber alert after the Klingon ship appeared? They had to wait until the Klingons fired before suddenly leaping to red alert? WTF? How hard are details like that to get right?

I'm not saying nobody could possibly have enjoyed it or that it won't be a huge success but it ain't Star Trek.

[AF6LJ]

And the characters act nothing like they are supposed to.

This.

A senior officer on a starship would be the ultimate in professionalism at all times. None of the officers shown yesterday were, not at any time, even the captain. She should have thrown the first officer off the bridge the very first time she invaded her personal space and called her by her first name in front of the crew (which the first officer would never have done in the first place - because she'd be a professional).

The ship didn't seem preactical/functional at all. The bridge lighting was a complete joke.

There was no sense of protocol on board, eg. They weren't even at amber alert after the Klingon ship appeared? They had to wait until the Klingons fired before suddenly leaping to red alert? WTF? How hard are details like that to get right?

I'm not saying nobody could possibly have enjoyed it or that it won't be a huge success but it ain't Star Trek.

This does not bode well for a series that claims to be part of the Star Trek saga..
Makes me wonder when the social agenda, and virtue signaling begins.

[calexanian]

I will put it another way. I would not want to be stationed on a ship with any of the people I saw. Any of the other series I would have no problem living with those people. These people seemed unprofessional and petty. Even Sarek seemed very non Sarek. The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

[rdl]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

...
The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

[tszaboo]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

...
The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

Its also on netflix. At least here. For the amount of content there is on netflix, I gladly pay that "monthly pizza money".

[AF6LJ]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

...
The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

Its also on netflix. At least here. For the amount of content there is on netflix, I gladly pay that "monthly pizza money".

Netflix has blocked distributions of ST Discovery in the US, you have to sign up with CBS's online service to watch it.

[The Doktor]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

Not if you use binary newsgroups or bittorent.

[rdl]

I guess a lot of other people had the same idea.

Star Trek: Discovery is getting pirated a lot

[nctnico]

I guess a lot of other people had the same idea.
Star Trek: Discovery is getting pirated a lot

No wonder... I don't get why every company wants to setup their own TV streaming service with a very limited amount of content (Amazon, Disney and now CBS). Like everyone is going to pay a subscription to multiple streaming services  If they got their sh*t together they would also offer the content to Netflix. In the end only healthy competition leads to a healthy market.

[691175002]

I think they struke a good balance between the spirit of the original TV show and the movies.  I know some people think the previous sentence is impossible, but the truth is that some of the original ST was absolutely awful and some parts of the movies were very entertaining.

Keep in mind that the episodes covered what will likely be one of the worst days in starfleet history.  I'm not sure its fair to judge their crew on how they act during their first (and for some, only) experience with combat; especially given the histories involved.  Micheal was not a model first officer, and was arguably only in the role due to her parentage.  She failed horribly.  That was the point.

I hope the show takes a more introspective slant going forward.  They certainly have the opportunity to do so.

There were a few spectacularly dumb decisions made by the crew, but if we are being fair the original star trek had some real head scratchers as well.  I honestly don't know why you would beam your captain and first officer onto a hostile Klingon war vessel without backup, but at least they paid for it.

I was overall impressed by ST:D, but episodes 3 and maybe 4 will be the real test.  They've made an impression and now its time to step away from the action.

[bitseeker]

tldr: Copyright f*cks up everything, again.

If the information in this video is correct with regard to the licensing mess that resulted from the splitting up of CBS and Paramount, then it's no wonder that ST is so different nowadays. It can't be true to the original because the license prevents it.

What puzzles me is why it can be similar enough to cause this kind of confusion. Who thought that was a good idea?

Anyway, I'll wait until things shake out before I invest time in the series. Maybe if it survives into a second season, I'll check it out.

[Fungus]

Keep in mind that the episodes covered what will likely be one of the worst days in starfleet history.  I'm not sure its fair to judge their crew on how they act during their first (and for some, only) experience with combat;

It's 100% fair. These people have gone through starfleet academy selection and are in charge of hundreds of lives plus a very expensive piece of hardware.

The devil is in the details and the details made it feel nothing like a starship. The first words out of the captain's mouth after the klingon ship appeared should have been "Amber alert". Two minutes later there should have been two guards and maybe a medical officer standing by the entrance to the bridge. It's drilled into every single officer on a starship.

It's basic procedure, it makes it seem like a starship. Unlike two girls having hissy fits in front of the crew.

It's also cheap to do - just a couple of non-speaking actors standing at the back of the set.

If these are the writers and directors assigned to the job then it's not going to be Star Trek. It's just Teen Dance Academy in Space.

if we are being fair the original star trek had...XXX

Sure, but they got the basics right using just painted plywood, rubber rocks and no CGI. They got it so right that we're still trying to keep it going 50 years later.

[tszaboo]

I've been thinking about this for some time. I actually have an idea, which would have been made this show great. Just one little change in the setting, and everything would have been fine. If the ship is not Starfleet. Change that, and all is fine.
The ship is Section 31. There. Think about it, they could have used any experimental technology, any ship design, any kind of tactics (except bitching). And they could have gone down the moral rabbit hole, nobody would have complained.

[Ice-Tea]

I'm not a purist (even though "Hey let's just add huuuuge guns" certainly annoyed me in 2013), so I'll give it a chance.

But it'd better have less Klingons talking slowly for minutes on end...

[calexanian]

Totoally agree. If the Klingons had been looks and speech wise left as they were and the ship had been more in line with what we had been accustomed to, but obviously in line with modern visual effects, it would have been 90% there. Enough that people would be with it, and not against it. I blame Les Moonves and his wanting to sexy up, his words not mine, Star Trek.

[nctnico]

Over the past decades of Star-trek Klingons have looked different. IIRC there is an ST episode somewhere explaining why.
Ofcourse internet is like the number 42: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/klingon_evolution.htm

[apelly]

Sanest multi-page thread for years! 

[Electro Detective]

Those 2 first episodes were a hard slog to get through, not sure if I'll bother with the rest of it.    Episode 1 was over before it got started..   

The Klingons sucked, their cheap makeup and usual 'warrior' BS was too drawn out, boring and SILLY embarassing

The two main ladies (good actresses) seemed to be having a bad hair day at the newest hi-tek shopping mall,

No star fleet admiral rocking up with their flag-ship playing cavalry could be THAT stupid to not smell a rat in the Klingons intentions,
and set themselves up for destruction 

The Vulcan mind blab across the universe was too cheesy for words
 

TBH I almost powered down the lot after that corny ridiculous 'com badge walk' in the desert to signal the ship   


Quickly watched a 'Star Trek Continues' episode to recover... 

a lot of the fan films are actually quite good and the mix of old and new school actors do well with what they've got to work with   

[orion242]

Wife is far more a trekie than me.  Watched them both with her, meh...

First off she tells me the timeline for this series is before captain kirt's time.  Fair enough.  Why they hell do they seem to have tech that thousand fold ahead of Kirt then???

[Corporate666]

If you think 'Voyager' and 'DS9' is Star Trek then I can how you might be confused.

DS9 got pretty good once they hit their stride. 

Nice summary of the problem.

Did they explore anything or seek out new worlds and civilizations?

Would a real starship bridge have dramatic lighting like that or would it give people headaches?

Action and stunning visuals are a problem? 

Honestly, it's like whenever anything gets changed - there are always people who are going to gripe about it.  And while I don't mean this towards you personally, among groups like engineers, there's always a subset that seem to want to one-up each other in how "real" of a fan they are by nitpicking to an evermore excruciating level of detail.

If we're talking about how implausible various ST series are, nothing comes close to TOS.

But relax man... have a beer, watch it and enjoy.  Or don't.... there's so much content out there nowadays that there's something for everyone.  But the reviews of the new ST:D are overwhelmingly good, so they're doing something right.

[Corporate666]

It's 100% fair. These people have gone through starfleet academy selection and are in charge of hundreds of lives plus a very expensive piece of hardware.

...

Sure, but they got the basics right using just painted plywood, rubber rocks and no CGI. They got it so right that we're still trying to keep it going 50 years later.

I'm not trying to nit-pick your comments but... come on, TOS is laughable when it comes to "how real officers would act when in control of a priceless piece of hardware and hundreds of lives".  How many times does Kirk ignore orders or the prime directive or  break the rules? 

I know a lot of folks hold TNG up as the benchmark of the franchise... but let's not forget how utterly boring many of the episodes are.  The best TNG did was the arc with the Borg, with all sorts of nonsensical plot elements thrown in for dramatic effect.  But, it makes for good entertainment, and most folks want to be entertained, not to view the most accurate portrayal of the future we can generate.  If that were the goal, the majority of what's in the whole ST franchise would never exist. 

[bitseeker]

The best TNG did was the arc with the Borg...

That and "Q". When you've had enough of shooting things and visiting planets, there's nothing like a misbehaving super-powerful entity to throw a monkey wrench in your plans (and introduce you to the Borg). 

[Fungus]

Would a real starship bridge have dramatic lighting like that or would it give people headaches?

Action and stunning visuals are a problem? 

No, but they don't mean you have to throw everything else away. You can have both.

I'm surprised anybody on here would be in favor of dumbing something down.

[Fungus]

I know a lot of folks hold TNG up as the benchmark of the franchise...

I wouldn't strongly disagree with that.

but let's not forget how utterly boring many of the episodes are.

Nothing is 100% perfect but at least it felt like a working starship, not a videogame.

most folks want to be entertained, not to view the most accurate portrayal of the future we can generate

You can entertain without dumbing down. Some of the most successful comedies ever made were very intellectual (eg. "Frasier").

DS9 got pretty good once they hit their stride. 

Maybe I didn't persist enough with that one.

[xani]

The thing bothering me most was the first officer, with Vulkan upbringing and "logic" behaved more like angry klingon 100% of the time and seemingly added "logic" just as pretext to win arguments. And going from "I trust you" to drugging and pointing phasers at eachother.

Replace captain and the first with competent officers and it might be manageable show.

[tszaboo]

DS9 got pretty good once they hit their stride. 

Maybe I didn't persist enough with that one.

It went from a family comedy show to a political drama / war story in season 4. By season 6 there are space battles with over 1000 ships.

[Electro Detective]

...By season 6 there are space battles with over 1000 ships.

It rocked out big time!   

You can't compare DS9 with this current halfassed script farce, sporting a perplexed crew propped up with boring and childish gamer style visual eye candy.

If they don't lift their game soon, the next ST Discovery reboot attempt may have to be titled "Star Trek RECOVERY"


Future episode previews appears they are going to run with an 'Escape From Alcatrazz Vs Total Recall Mashup'     

[nctnico]

The thing bothering me most was the first officer, with Vulkan upbringing and "logic" behaved more like angry klingon 100% of the time and seemingly added "logic" just as pretext to win arguments. And going from "I trust you" to drugging and pointing phasers at eachother.

Replace captain and the first with competent officers and it might be manageable show.

IMHO that is exactly what happened at the end of the second part of the pilot.

[xani]

The captain, probably but the first seems to get a new ship to be incompetent on.

Now that I'm thinking about it, if she was half-klingon everything in plot would make a lot more sense

[Ampera]

On the other hand, Seth MacFarlane's The Orville is pretty damn good as of Episode 4. I am enjoying it immensely, and Ep4 was the best so far. It really replicated a high quality TNG experience, the humor is pretty good, but it's not overpowering, and not boring. It compliments the show quite well. I am really enjoying it.

[lundmar]

I find any Star Trek episode to be most interesting when they travel through the unknown of the universe and encounter new things. So yet-another series of Klingon episodes are a bit predictable and boring. Yes, I know Klingons talk cool but lets move on to something new.

It's like Hollywood has lost it's imagination and it's becoming a general problem. I mean, if I see yet-another Batman reboot where Batman fights the Joker again I'm gonna punch someone in the face! 

[rdl]

I agree a whole season of Klingon is not appealing. The best of Star Trek are those involving time travel. I don't think that would work if stretched over an entire season though.

[Fungus]

I find any Star Trek episode to be most interesting when they travel through the unknown of the universe and encounter new things.

It used to be right there in the opening titles:

"...explore strange new worlds, seek out new life and new civilizations, go boldly where no man has gone before."

I guess that needs proper imaginative writers though. Fighting Klingons is much easier.

[Towger]

I  Yes, I know Klingons talk cool but lets move on to something new.

Have you heard these Klingons speak.  It is as if they are speaking though the rubber mask covering in their (version 4 or 5) Klingon face and the studio could not be bothered to redub the audio post production.

[Fungus]

On the other hand, Seth MacFarlane's The Orville is pretty damn good as of Episode 4.

Saw the first episode the other day.

Penis jokes and people ordering up hash brownies on the replicator aside, everything was right - there's 10^5 times more "Star Trek" in that than in the official offering.

I know which one I'll be watching. 

[nctnico]

On the other hand, Seth MacFarlane's The Orville is pretty damn good as of Episode 4.

Saw the first episode the other day.

Penis jokes and people ordering up hash brownies on the replicator aside, everything was right - there's 10^5 times more "Star Trek" in that than in the official offering.

Well, Brannon Braga knows how write decent Sci-fi (including Star Trek) so it doesn't surprise me a bit 'the Orville' manages to hit the right buttons.

[boz]

I thought it was OK... I just wish ST would boldly go somewhere where there are no Klingons 

[nctnico]

BTW the tune and intro remind me of 'Davinci's demons' 

[bitseeker]

The title sequence reminded me of the new Westworld.

[Fungus]

The title sequence reminded me of the new Westworld.

I've seen people raving about the amazing new title sequence.

Were these people literally born a few weeks ago? Have they never seen anything else? 

(I think this is the main problem with many reviewers/critics - complete lack of any references or contexts)

[stmdude]

I've seen people raving about the amazing new title sequence.

At least there's no singing in this one..

[Electro Detective]

I've seen people raving about the amazing new title sequence.

At least there's no singing in this one..

'The Love Boat' can get away with that     not Enterprise.. every episode   

[bson]

I thought in general it's good, but it has some specific shortcomings:

1. The acting is awfully stiff.  But this is often the case for the first season of any show.
2. The characters mostly feel weak.  They just don't come across as intelligent and competent individuals.  This is a problem that occurs when the script writer lacks basic subject literacy or even interest - such as command structure, leadership, engineering, navigation, life onboard a ship, etc.  When they have interpersonal conflicts it's often about puerile matters.

I do think it's worth the money though... so will watch the rest of the season.  The CBS All Access (ad free) streaming quality, at least on my Roku Premiere+ with a 4K TV, is quite good.

[bson]

The Orville is worth watching, too.  It's a bit more in the spirit of the original ST, but clearly a very different concept from ST:D.

[stmdude]

The Orville is worth watching, too.  It's a bit more in the spirit of the original ST, but clearly a very different concept from ST:D.

Absolutely. I was very skeptical at first, but episode 4 was way better Star Trek than ST:D.

One thing though. I can't make up my mind about what to call The Orville. I want to say "ST parody", but that doesn't seem fair. Not enough parody in it for it either..  Wikipedia says that it's "inspired by ST", which it most definitely is, but...

[bitseeker]

The Orville is worth watching, too.  It's a bit more in the spirit of the original ST, but clearly a very different concept from ST:D.

Alas, the name just won't stop conjuring up thoughts of

[calexanian]

+1 for the Orville is getting better and better. Episode 4 felt like a real star trek episode. The crew works together and all seem competent. The actor styles appear to gel with their characters. It should become a good company of actors.

[Fungus]

Now we're being told the reason for all the girly catfighting in the first episode of Discovery.

The "plot" calls for the best officer in the whole of Starfleet  ,  but... she also needs to somehow have been disgraced. This means she can taken out of jail for a special mission. 

2. The characters mostly feel weak.  They just don't come across as intelligent and competent individuals.  This is a problem that occurs when the script writer lacks basic subject literacy or even interest - such as command structure, leadership, engineering, navigation, life onboard a ship, etc.

+1 Insightful.

(and hence the 'annoying roommate' charcter in episode 3 - the writers all think they're working on a high-school movie. )

[Psi]

I think the 3rd ep shows considerable improvement from the first 2.

but the discovery intro sequence is terrible, no startrek 'wonder' in it at all.

[calexanian]

Well its clear this is not a cannon show or in the original timeline anymore. They just need to admit to that. It looks like good sci fi. But its not Star Trek. I will continue to watch, but not with the warm fuzzy feeling I am getting from The Orville. I say good luck to CBS. I am watching only because I am a Sci Fi fan and I do not know if enough average TV viewers will subscribe to make this all access venture pan out for them. I think a lot of people will be turned away by the subscription model and the non family friendly aspects of this show. episode 3 had many scenes and topics not suitable for young children, and when did we all begin watching star trek? When we were young. It is a modern action adventure suitable for adults. There are already many upon many shows like that available for free on network TV and i just dont know how profitable this will be. At this point i have given up on seeing a post voyager back to business star trek show anytime in the near future, or at least until the Star Trek property is wrestled away from CBS or management at CBS is installed that is pro genuine Star Trek. That may unfortunately be another...... 20 years. Like it was the first time. Baring the animated series which was, ahem, Filmation.... enough said.

[Electro Detective]

I came close to tuning out 'The Orville' ST semi-parody in 'casual trekkie' disgust, but stuck with it just to see how low the lines can go 

and if the toilet humour improved    or WENT AWAY... by the end of the episode

I prefer this crew (and ship) a LOT better initially than STD, and will endeavour to persevere through to episode 4,

hoping things will shape up to ST standards as 'calexanian' commented above

[Rick Law]

Judging from the comments here, it sounds like the world can use a new space travel series instead of reheating Star Trek and serve it over and over.  This chicken has long pass the rubber-chicken stage and it is beginning to chew like fossilized meat.

Oh, any such new series should separate the "military/exploration" with the general population.  No reason why the crew would bring their family and their toddlers on to what could be dangerous.  Let's face it, maternity ward next to the torpedo bay just doesn't seem right.

Once you get rid of the thousand or so babies and toddlers on board, now you can do some series action without looking too silly.  (Bye bye, Westley)  The ship can trim down to something serious action.  Like use the rest of the room on board for some serious weapons of mass destruction.

[bitseeker]

I prefer this crew (and ship) a LOT better initially than STD

STD! What an unfortunate acronym collision.

[Electro Detective]

I prefer this crew (and ship) a LOT better initially than STD

STD! What an unfortunate acronym collision.

lol, that's what happens keeping up with the TOS and TNG abbreviations 

Let's see if they address the 'STD' issue in Discovery or Orville    with all that mixed bonking going on between humans and aliens    

 

[Lightages]

I finally watched the first episode. Actually I watched the first two thirds. I couldn't stand any more. It is horrible on its own merit without any comparison to or concern for any of the previous series. The camera work is ridiculous, all the movement and weird angles, the Klingons seem like empty costumes, the acting of everyone else is horrid, the script is boring and uninteresting, and the whole dynamic of the crew is flat. It would be more interesting to watch endless re-runs of GIlligan's Island.

I won't go into the dozens of other problems. I have already spent too much time on this POS.

[Electro Detective]

You did not miss anything vital, not much happens till halfway into the second episode of STD, except more klingon drivel and star fleet b!tching.

The good news is that annoying Klingon and his entourage of bad hair day w0rriers get their asses taken out, and gone from the story (if you can call it that)

Episode 3 has no shortage of new weirdos, a wacky over serious dark captain that should be re-assigned to the Orville to tone down their BS   

and plot/s resembling 'LOST' scripts      making it up as they go

They should enlist Jim Carrey to save both shows, he'll sort it out...     

 

[TerraHertz]

https://9gag.com/gag/aB8GzdA

I'd never heard this bit of ST history.

[bitseeker]

Amazing! I hadn't heard about that either.

The cartoon got one bit incorrect. Roddenberry wasn't the co-pilot on the flight. He was the third officer. The pilot and co-pilot would've been rather busy at the time.

Here's the relevant bit of history from Wikipedia:

In 1945, Roddenberry began flying for Pan American World Airways,[14] including routes from New York to Johannesburg or Calcutta, the two longest Pan Am routes at the time.[14] Listed as a resident of River Edge, New Jersey, he experienced his third crash while on the Clipper Eclipse on June 18, 1947.[15] The plane landed in the Syrian desert, and Roddenberry dragged injured passengers out of the burning plane and led the group to get help.[16] Fourteen people died in the crash; 11 passengers needed hospital treatment, and eight were unharmed.[17] He resigned from Pan Am on May 15, 1948, and decided to pursue his dream of writing, particularly for the new medium of television.[18]

And from the page referenced in footnote 15, which recounts the crash as well as the names of the crew members:

It was the beginning of round-the-world service for Pan American Airways, and the airline brought in, for the flight, some of its finest crew. On the leg from Karachi, India, to Istanbul, Turkey, designated Flight 121, the New York City based flight consisted of ten Pan-Am personnel: Captain Joseph Hall Hart, Jr., First Officer Robert Stanley McCoy, Second Officer & Navigator Howard Thompson, Third Officer Eugene W. Roddenberry, First Engineer Robert B Donnelly, Second Engineer W. E. Morris, First Radio Officer Nelson C. Miles, Second Radio Officer Arthur O. Nelson, Purser Anthony Volpe, and Stewardess Jane Bray.

[Ice-Tea]

Also: I want Firefly back.

[bitseeker]

Also: I want Firefly back.

Yup. I watch them all every year.

[Ice-Tea]

I don't understand that it hasn't happen yet.. There's now a dozen or so "gorillas" with very deep pockets trying their darnest to find decent content and Firefly is just laying there...

[AF6LJ]

Also: I want Firefly back.

That would be great but the movie ended the series and undoing that would be hard.

[Electro Detective]

Thanks for that info, I didn't realize Firefly was a series, I watched a pilot type thing years ago (good flick IIRC) and thought it was just a one off

The Orville episodes 4 and 5 appear to have lifted their game btw, with a bit of the early TNG-ish style imo

I like it and hope they go with that and eject the playground toilet lines into the next black hole



 

[bitseeker]

Also: I want Firefly back.

That would be great but the movie ended the series and undoing that would be hard.

No need to undo it. Surely, there's more to do in the 'Verse. I haven't read the books, yet, but at least one covered more of the origin story, (e.g., where'd Book come from and why does he know so much?).

Thanks for that info, I didn't realize Firefly was a series, I watched a pilot type thing years ago (good flick IIRC) and thought it was just a one off

Definitely check it out. Note that the series was originally aired out of order. If you get the DVDs or stream it, you can see it in the correct order. Then, the movie, Serenity, wraps up much of the main arc, but still has some loose ends.

[calexanian]

I watched episode 4 today. After you get over that it's not cannon, and people don't act the way officers should act, its ok.. I will keep watching for lack of anything better. With just a few tweaks though, it could have been something so much better.

[bitseeker]

I'm getting caught up on The Expanse. Pretty cool, so far.

[rdl]

I'm getting caught up on The Expanse. Pretty cool, so far.

I've heard good things about it and it must be doing well since a third season was announced. I have season one available to watch but just haven't had the time.

[tszaboo]

I'm getting caught up on The Expanse. Pretty cool, so far.

The expanse has a very good story, for sure. I stopped watching it after ep1 and ep2, but later I went back, and I was so glad that I did. For episodes like "Home"... To be honest, I put it aside, because it was run by syfy channel. And they didn't manage to produce anything worth watching in the last 10 years, just trash sci-fi.

Also: I want Firefly back.

That would be great but the movie ended the series and undoing that would be hard.

After 14 years they cannot continue something with original cast.

There are many many sci-fi universes, that would supply countles hours of entretainment for us nerds. The gaming industry particularly has some gems, that could be excellent on the big or the small screen. The Mass Effect for example has a film in limbo, I would love to see. The Halo series could overcome the fact, that the story was written to 12 year old children, and produce something other than horrible CGI films. The list goes on, but it is off topic.
But Sci-Fi movies in 2017 mean superheroes punching each other in the face with bigger and bigger things. At least we got rid of bullet time.

[bitseeker]

I'm getting caught up on The Expanse. Pretty cool, so far.

The expanse has a very good story, for sure. I stopped watching it after ep1 and ep2, but later I went back, and I was so glad that I did. For episodes like "Home"... To be honest, I put it aside, because it was run by syfy channel. And they didn't manage to produce anything worth watching in the last 10 years, just trash sci-fi.

Yes, I was very skeptical at first. But after hearing so much positive feedback and its surviving to a third season, it made it to my watch list.

[Corporate666]

The Orville is worth watching, too.  It's a bit more in the spirit of the original ST, but clearly a very different concept from ST:D.

The Orville is pretty good - but OH MY GOD do they need to get rid of Seth McFarlane as an actor on that show.  He is a horrible actor firstly, and secondly whenever he talks it's impossible not to imagine Brian (the dog) from Family Guy.

I know Seth created the show, and he's living out his "I wanna be Captain Kirk!" fantasy, but he is by far the weakest character on the show and needs to don a red shirt and get vaporized by some alien, stat!

[maggotronix]

Star Trek Discovery, The Expanse, The Orville... these are all great new shows & we should be grateful we're getting some decent sci-fi for a change. Some folk are just too critical of everything.

[Lightages]

Some folk are just too critical of everything.

The irony is palpable.

[Electro Detective]

The Orville is worth watching, too.  It's a bit more in the spirit of the original ST, but clearly a very different concept from ST:D.

The Orville is pretty good - but OH MY GOD do they need to get rid of Seth McFarlane as an actor on that show.  He is a horrible actor firstly, and secondly whenever he talks it's impossible not to imagine Brian (the dog) from Family Guy.

I know Seth created the show, and he's living out his "I wanna be Captain Kirk!" fantasy, but he is by far the weakest character on the show and needs to don a red shirt and get vaporized by some alien, stat!

Seth McFarlane does ok the handful of times he's been a serious captain, but all up The Orville needs to lose the dumbass toilet humour and ST Discovery needs to lighten up a bit.

Both ships should join up for a mission    travel back in time to save a young Q from some galactic menace that feeds on smartass annoying Qs...   

In the meantime I need to catch up with Firefly and The Expanse! 

[tszaboo]

Star Trek Discovery... these are all great new shows

The issue is that STD is not good. I dont enjoy watching it.
I know, I just shuldnt watch it then, but that is not how it works.

mod: I just remembered where did they send out the (half vulkan) first officer in an EVA suit to inspect something potentially dangerous. The Motion picture! How desperate and stupid do you have to be to even try to remind people to that movie.

[bitseeker]

Both ships should join up for a mission    travel back in time to save a young Q from some galactic menace that feeds on smartass annoying Qs...   

That'd be a hoot! Q could use some comeuppance, even if it is in the past. Then again, does time matter to Qs?

In the meantime I need to catch up with Firefly and The Expanse! 

Yes!

I know, I just shuldnt watch it then, but that is not how it works.

It's like watching auto racing.

[Fungus]

Star Trek Discovery... these are all great new shows

The issue is that STD is not good. I dont enjoy watching it.

This.

I just watched episode five (masochist) and I have to keep pausing it to calm down.

It's hard to point at a particular reason. At a superficial level it all seems OK, it's professionally made, but ... the writers and directors just don't get it. Everybody's over-dramatic and it just doesn't feel like a starship. You can tell it's a huge committee with meetings, not just a few good writers who know what they're doing.

And the title sequence is awful, that doesn't help when it suddenly appears 8 minutes into an episode (why do they do that?)

[Kjelt]

Watched 4 episodes, I am ok with it but not overenthousiastic.
My opinion: they want to address the new generation with quick action slick SFX all at the cost of a good story with a good red line across episodes.
So mwah, not convinced but then perhaps it is time for change, I at least don't want to be an old guy interfering with new initiatives and if the youth likes it than the mission of the producers has succeeded.
The older generation (as i consider myself with TNG and Voyager and my father as generation before with TOS) have had their series and should make room.

[Fungus]

if the youth likes it than the mission of the producers has succeeded.

Nope. Success would be if the young and old liked it.

(and there's no reason they can't do that)

[Fungus]

The Orville needs to lose the dumbass toilet humour and ST Discovery needs to lighten up a bit.

You mean like the "This is so fucking cool!" scene in episode 5 of STD? I don't have enough for that.

(21 minutes in...)

[Kjelt]

Nope. Success would be if the young and old liked it.
(and there's no reason they can't do that)

Look into the demographics of the tv public and series, there are none (or almost none) series that can attrack three generations of audience, it is as asking for a DC-DC converter that has ultra high efficiency but also a very wide DC in and output specification.
Sometimes you just can't have it all 
And lets face it tv is dead unless the younger generation will switch back to it for some series. Youtube and the vlog channels are all the youngsters are watching these days.

[Electro Detective]

The Orville needs to lose the dumbass toilet humour and ST Discovery needs to lighten up a bit.

You mean like the "This is so fucking cool!" scene in episode 5 of STD? I don't have enough for that.

(21 minutes in...)

Thanks for the heads up, Tactical Facepalm Team on standby...   

I've been watching Firefly/Serenity in the correct order as recommended earlier, and sorta forgot about STD and Orville

I'm up to episode 12 in the 14 set, and know in advance I will miss this show ending before it's time more than STD and Orville   


The Expanse is next on the sci-fi catch up list, if it's 1/10 as good as Firefly, we have another winner   
 

[bitseeker]

I've been watching Firefly/Serenity in the correct order as recommended earlier, and sorta forgot about STD and Orville

I'm up to episode 12 in the 14 set, and know in advance I will miss this show ending before it's time

Welcome to the 'Verse, ED. Sounds like you're officially a brown coat, now. I watch the whole thing every year or two.

The Expanse is next on the sci-fi catch up list, if it's 1/10 as good as Firefly, we have another winner   

The Expanse is also excellent, but different from Firefly. With The Expanse, the story and mystery grab you, making you want to know more, see more. With Firefly, it's the characters that keep you coming back for more, even when you already know the stories.

Another series that I enjoy because of the characters and lighthearted, if not quirky, sci-fi is Stargate SG1. Its 10 seasons and two wrap-up movies will keep you occupied for a while.

[stmdude]

Another series that I enjoy because of the characters and lighthearted, if not quirky, sci-fi is Stargate SG1. Its 10 seasons and two wrap-up movies will keep you occupied for a while.

+1 on that. Just don't take it too serious. They sure aren't.

[Corporate666]

The Orville needs to lose the dumbass toilet humour and ST Discovery needs to lighten up a bit.

You mean like the "This is so fucking cool!" scene in episode 5 of STD? I don't have enough for that.

(21 minutes in...)

That was cringe worthy.  So was the end scene with the engineer sharing a tender moment with his boyfriend... it added nothing to the show and was obviously just a pandering scene.  The doctor is actually a horrible character - zero charisma and zero depth.  At least the engineer guy had a persona, even if it was a bad one.   

The most recent episode of ST-D was most definitely the weakest one by far.  I hope it picks up and improves from here.

[xani]

The most recent episode of ST-D was most definitely the weakest one by far.  I hope it picks up and improves from here.

Well it can't get much worse.... a lot of conflict in the show seems either to go completely against character of the people involved in it, or is based on things competent crew would never do or argue about in the first place.

They take time to establish each character as competent in their job, then make others act like they were not.

It's one thing if it was "fresh ship with newbie crew", then it might even make sense, but that's not the case

[edy]

To add my two cents...

I've only watched a few episodes so far of both Star Trek Discovery and Orville, as I'm trying to keep up with both (alternating episodes). I am enjoying Orville more at the moment because it reminds me more of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Maybe it's the style of the ship but it has more of a "discovering" of new things than Star Trek Discovery... which so far I feel is already entrenched in War with the Klingons (and what's with them changing their face shape again?).

I would have thought a show with "Discovery" in the name would be more exploration and discovery, and not so much war... Which is why I didn't like Star Trek: Deep Space 9 all that much. Too much war. Also, Star Trek: The Next Generation to me was much more Sci-Fi exploration and pushing the envelope on aliens and fantasy than other Star Treks, especially when they were thrust into totally unexplored areas of the universe by Q. That's more my cup of tea. I don't care so much for war and blowing up stuff in space. I'd rather see stories of interesting alien cultures, strange planets and creatures and bizarre situations like the classic Star Trek and TNG used to be (by far my favorites).... although I also liked Voyager.

[calexanian]

They have announced most of the staff for The Orville and most of them are former TNG staff. The same directory of photography and special effects I believe. Also Brannon Braga is one of the producers. Additionally CBS has been hands off as far as lawsuits go. They don't want to go against FOX and their boatloads of cash and Seth McFarland and his absolute millions of very vocal fans. Their hold on the Star Trek TV franchise has never really been tested in court. It has long since been suspected that if paramount ever wanted to push the issue they could possibly regain the whole thing. CBS wound up with it under, not questionable circumstances, but were never really challenged by anybody else. Its just assumed that they would ferociously defend it to protect all of the licensing rights which are worth far more than the shows and movies themselves.

CBS will never do proper Star Trek with Les Moonves at the helm. We should be glad we have anything et all judging by his views of the franchise.

[Electro Detective]

STD and Orville clearly need work !  or a team up to sort out the Krill and Klingon Klownage in one skirmish before trekkies summon Q to shut both shows down out of respect for TNG

I've been watching the Firefly/Serenity series alongside STD and Orville, and there's no comparing

15 year old Firefly clearly has the jump on both in many (all) respects   

I could watch the series again in a few weeks time and get into it again easily

Trying to get my head around the first episode of The Expanse,
it's def got the thing but I'll have to watch it again to grasp the vibe.   
Admittedly it was late, I was tired and sci-fi plot challenged after a long day on a tough dog electric/tronic troubleshoot

Still a better -go to- than STD and Orville and lots less    

[bitseeker]

15 year old Firefly clearly has the jump on both in many (all) respects   

I could watch the series again in a few weeks time and get into it again easily

Yep, it's like a favorite book.

Trying to get my head around the first episode of The Expanse,
it's def got the thing but I'll have to watch it again to grasp the vibe.   

Don't worry too much. The first season really lays a lot of groundwork. Just keep going and pieces will start to fit into place. I find that the series is very much like reading a good novel. They're not going to hit you over the head with everything right up front.

I'm taking a bit of a breather before diving into season 2. Meanwhile, I have the first Honor Harrington series to finish reading — currently in the middle of "Echoes of Honor" (book 8 of 13 in the series).

[Fungus]

The Orville needs to lose the dumbass toilet humour and ST Discovery needs to lighten up a bit.

You mean like the "This is so fucking cool!" scene in episode 5 of STD? I don't have enough for that.

That was cringe worthy.  So was the end scene with the engineer sharing a tender moment with his boyfriend...

That too. That scene just about finished it for me. One more scene like that and I'm completely done with it.

OTOH: Bortus and Clyden in the Orville? Gimme more...

[Fungus]

They have announced most of the staff for The Orville and most of them are former TNG staff. The same directory of photography and special effects I believe. Also Brannon Braga is one of the producers.

You can tell. Everything about the show's production feels like they've already had hundreds of episodes of experience.

Additionally CBS has been hands off as far as lawsuits go. They don't want to go against FOX and their boatloads of cash and Seth McFarland and his absolute millions of very vocal fans.

I'm sure the Orville's lawyers go over every episode before it gets aired.

I'm not sure what exactly they'd sue over. Look and feel? That's going to be tough one to pursue.

[tszaboo]

I would have thought a show with "Discovery" in the name would be more exploration and discovery, and not so much war...

There is nothing to discover. The Klingon war will end, the spore drive (OMG, even writing down the name is ridiculous) will not work. Spock never talks about Michael. There is no history to be changed here. Probably the best would be if the ship and everyone on it would blink out of existence in a time paradox or something.

We would suddenly jump to 2388 (primary universe) with a fallen romulan empire due to the supernova. The ship is a refit sovereign class with Jonathan Frakes as captain Riker, Tom Paris as first officer, and Jeri Ryan and Tricia Helfer (who is also an android) having a relationship with explicit screens (that is how you do it, dear SJWs). Also the Borg is coming, so federation pumps out hundreds of Defiant class ships. And there is also Admiral Jean Luc and Janeway appearing every few episodes.

But of course this could never happen, because this would be actually fun to watch.

[bitseeker]

Probably the best would be if the ship and everyone on it would blink out of existence in a time paradox or something.

Or it was just another case of Q experimenting on mortals. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[gnavigator1007]

If you guys want to watch "real", but unofficial Star Trek, you should be watching this:

[calexanian]

Orville has used some sound effects and names from Star Trek. The sounds obviously were intentional.

[bitseeker]

If you guys want to watch "real", but unofficial Star Trek, you should be watching this:

Thanks, that was cool. They really nailed it on the look and feel. I wasn't expecting Grant Imahara and Marina Sirtis to be in it.

[Electro Detective]

If you guys want to watch "real", but unofficial Star Trek, you should be watching this:

Thanks, that was cool. They really nailed it on the look and feel. I wasn't expecting Grant Imahara and Marina Sirtis to be in it.

There's a limited number of these due to some legal BS explained by the interviewed Captain/producer on Youtube

It's still a good 'tribute' show,

with no facepalm reaction so far  or choking on popcorn  as with GayTrek shows STD and AWEville     

If they had the backing and budget, it has the makings of a great  'TOS Reloaded' effort

[rrinker]

 Star Trek Continues is absolutely amazing. And very literally continues where TOS leaves off. Especially brilliant is casting James Doohan's son as Scotty.

Discovery - uggh. The first two episodes at least were utterly TERRIBLE. It got a little better, but I can't imagine how they are going to fit this into series canon. So they have this amazing drive that is even faster than TNG's upgraded warp drive, yet this takes place BEFORE TOS and the Federation does not use this? Plus the acting is pretty bad - not just Burnham, but that nutcase Stamets and the way to silly Tilly. They make the fake flying around the bridge of TOS Enterprise by the original crew look like a fine Shakespearean production.

The Orville - I find it enjoyable. Yes, most of the jokes are pretty childish, but sometimes you just want to relax and not think too hard. Otherwise it really seems well done.

[xani]

The new mushroom drive isn't meant to "fit" anywhere, it is just meant as a plot device so they can put Discovery wherever they feel like without having to have any real explanation.

And it has very well documented history of just not working or doing strange stuff so if plot says ship needs to stay in place and not just disengage at will from every engagement, they only need tiny excuse for it to not work again

[Electro Detective]

Mushroom Drive on STD and Orville humour require a synced response from those qualified in such matters 

[tszaboo]

Just release the Magic Mushrooms, everything stats spinning, and you can be anywhere!

At least we know, which psychotic drug do the writers prefer.

Spoiler!
Also it is getting ridiculus that the only way to progress the story by the writers goes by one formula:
1. Someone got into a shuttlepod.
2. Ion storm, klingon raiding party, explosion, combination of these happens.
The shuttle pods are the new redshirts.

[Fungus]

Mushroom Drive on STD and Orville humour require a synced response from those qualified in such matters 

At least the Orville humor is planned, ie. supposed to be there. It may not be your cup of tea but at least nobody promised anything different.

STD is just  all around. I just saw the latest episode and I'm done with it. It's not entertaining and it's going nowhere interesting AFAICT.

[lundmar]

I think Star Trek Discovery is a good and entertaining series in its own way. I think most in here who categorize it as "bad" are not being very honest.

However, I would very much have preferred to see a continuation of the Star Trek series with a new more advanced next generation Enterprise ship exploring new areas of the universe meeting new enemies and civilizations etc.. The enemy being Klingons again is just getting a little old and boring. Heck, I would even prefer to revisit the Borg or some other new enemy with the same level of evil technology.

Also, the introduction of the spore drive takes away a some of the excitement of the original series where the travel itself was a major activity and source of unexpected encounters when they traveled across the universe. Now they just reach their destination in the blink of an eye.

[calexanian]

I think Star Trek Discovery is a good and entertaining series in its own way. I think most in here who categorize it as "bad" are not being very honest.

However, I would very much have preferred to see a continuation of the Star Trek series with a new more advanced next generation Enterprise ship exploring new areas of the universe meeting new enemies and civilizations etc.. The enemy being Klingons again is just getting a little old and boring. Heck, I would even prefer to revisit the Borg or some other new enemy with the same level of evil technology.

Also, the introduction of the spore drive takes away a some of the excitement of the original series where the travel itself was a major activity and source of unexpected encounters when they traveled across the universe. Now they just reach their destination in the blink of an eye.

You will not get a continuation until Trek Friendly executives run CBS and the movie and TV licences are held by the same company. Ironically that may be the more likely thing in this climate of corporate consolidation.  If CBS bought Paramount you might actually see something. Once again. The current situation has not been tested in court. If Paramount and the Roddenberry's got together and pressed the issue CBS could find they really don't have anything accept legal fees. This goes back to the Star Trek next phase days when paramount and Gene were fighting over who actually owned the show. Gene always threatened to take it to court and everybody figured he would win, so paramount always gave in in the end to whatever his demands were and they just moved along without ever really figuring out who held the rights. This went all the way up until he died, and by then the family did not want to peruse it. Watch Chaos on the Bridge to see how crazy the situation was with Gene for TNG.

[bitseeker]

Charles, are you referring to this? Chaos on the Bridge (IMDb)

[calexanian]

Yeah. Thats the one. Its an interesting story about how TNG survived the first few seasons.

[bitseeker]

Cool. Thanks for the reference.

[Fungus]

I think Star Trek Discovery is a good and entertaining series in its own way. I think most in here who categorize it as "bad" are not being very honest.

I'm not going to say it's "bad" but it's mediocre at best. The characters are all weak and don't fit their supposed backgrounds. eg. Our girl was raised on Vulkan and is the only human who was ever logical/smart enough to be considered for 'Vulkan Expeditionary Force'? Uhuh, totally fits her character. Not.

The given explanation is that this is a bleeding-edge experimental ship full of Starfleet's misfits/mavericks? Hence the 'annoying roommate' character, right...?

[calexanian]

Hahahaha. I liked it better when it was called McHales Navy.

[sleemanj]

I have not seen Discovery, nor The Orville, but since at least part kf this thread is about other shows, maybe I can make a couple suggestions for viewing lists.

Dark Matter, unfortunatly recently cancelled, is a pretty good show, not ground breaking or anything, but it has some decent characters and mix of plots, action and the occasional comic relief (esp Android... boobs... boobs... boooooooooobs). 

Stargate Universe, it's a fantastic series, much deeper, and darker, than any of the other Stargate series, far more character driven.  Killed way too soon, still absolutely worth watching.

LEXX, not everybodies cup of tea, a little more surreal, absurd even in many episodes but I've watched it through a couple times.

Farscape, of course.

Somehow I'd never watched Babylon 5 before, I'm presently working through it, mostly worth it.

One more slightly unrelated - Travellers - not space based scifi, but definately worth a go.

[senso]

Dark matter was cancelled?

FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 

Still miss and hate that retarded decision to kill SG:U when it was getting even better, it started OK for me, but I'm not dependant on 20 explosions per second like the average viewer that will leave a show as soon as there are no Micheal bay levels of kabumm right at the intro theme, that and moving shows to the 4am timeslot and cancelling them due to "lowering" viewership.

Love how companies rate the like/dislike solely from USA, because no one else in any other country watches a show/series..

[Psi]

Somehow I'd never watched Babylon 5 before, I'm presently working through it, mostly worth it.

Which episode are you up to?   by  "mostly worth it"  i'm guessing ~S1/S2.  Just you wait

Probably not everyone's cup of tea but fyi there are these youtube videos of a girl who video blogged her thoughts after watching every B5 ep for the first time.
JMS loved it and actually sent her something, can't remember what it was.

[calexanian]

Like all good character driven stories B5 does not get good until the third season. If you ignore all of the bad early CGI its actually a pretty good story.

[Fungus]

Just to revive this thread: The last few episodes of Star Trek have been OK.

[nctnico]

Just to revive this thread: The last few episodes of Star Trek have been OK.

Yes. It is getting on the rails. If you ask me to choose between The Orville and ST Discovery I won't be able to come up with an answer soon. ST Discovery is more action packed where the Orville has much more of a ST Next Generation vibe to it.

[tszaboo]

Just to revive this thread: The last few episodes of Star Trek have been OK.

Yes. It is getting on the rails. If you ask me to choose between The Orville and ST Discovery I won't be able to come up with an answer soon. ST Discovery is more action packed where the Orville has much more of a ST Next Generation vibe to it.

I'm guessing it has to do with the writers and the directors. Gretchen J. Berg is clearly ruining the show with un called for SJW.
It became one of those shows, like Doctor Who. If it was directed by Moffat, I was considering just turning it off. Almost everything he was producing was garbage. Out of order screens, unnesesary tension, Mary Sue changes within an episode.
It is worth watching the after trek show (even though it is 90% mutual admiration club), it clear what is happening. What I dont understand why they arent giving her a show about lesbian vampire wrestlers on their period, so she can ruin that. Just look her up. Her previous works are military grade torture series. And becomes executive producer.
Roddenberry, Rick Berman,  Brannon Braga, this woman known for Women's Murder Club and Revenge, Bryan Fuller, Jeri Taylor <- find the odd one in this list.

[Kjelt]

I thought bringing back Harry Mudd from TOS was a weak shot, probably hoping to turn over some of the old fans, what a garbage 

[Ice-Tea]

I didn't mind Harry Mud. But I dislike time travel episodes in *any* series. It's an easy way out for writersblock (see also: parallel universes, 'it was just a dream', etc etc.)

[rdl]

I don't know how this series has used time travel since I've never watched it, but in all the previous incarnations of Star Trek many of the very best episodes/movies involved time travel.

[xani]

I thought bringing back Harry Mudd from TOS was a weak shot, probably hoping to turn over some of the old fans, what a garbage 

I also did not enjoy the space hobo episode

[kosacid]

when i watched it i though what a rip off, why not call the spores spice and call him a guild navigator "the spice must flow"

[Ice-Tea]

Good artists copy.Great artists steal

[Kjelt]

Good artists copy.Great artists steal

Great artists create something so new and unseen before that practically no-one can appreciate it at that moment.
Years, even decades later those artists sometimes even when they are already dead are then recognized for their innovative creations inspiring others.

[tpowell1830]

I find it amazing that people are still fans of ST 50 years later. I watched it when I was kid, and loved every minute of it then.

The ST Continues is the best rehash version that I have seen for the original series, perhaps better in many ways. TOS was so interesting during the time that the country was preparing to go to the moon with all of the test missions in space. I though by the time I am my age that we would have definitely found a way to get to other planets with manned missions, but alas, it didn't happen.

The interesting thing is that I would have never guessed that we would carry around computers that also doubled as phones and cameras that took pictures that you didn't need chemical film to develop on special paper. Instant communication with anyone in the world by tapping out a text and pressing send... wow! Also to get on a network where you could get information and directions anytime, unbelievable! These computers are probably 100 orders of magnitude faster and better than the computers on board the lunar module.

But still no one on Mars yet, although we have some robots out there. Star Trek and the space program had my hopes up that we would be so far advanced in technology by this time that there would be nothing that we couldn't do, yet there are groups of people here and all over still wanting more of the original ST, go figure.

Well, just my 2 cents of thought..

[bitseeker]

So, what happened to ST Continues? I just saw that it's ended.

[Electro Detective]

So, what happened to ST Continues? I just saw that it's ended.

And a good ending too fwiw     


I've been waiting around for STD episode 10 to appear...and see where in nowhere the ship ended up (?!)

and after doing a web search, season one only has NINE episodes. STD scripters short on magic mushrooms ?

The Orville season one is up to episode 12 afaik   the 2 bonus episodes trekkie compensation for the toilet humor BS and many dumbass lines?


If you like spaceships and serious galactic badass, Killjoys, Dark Matter, The Expanse and of course Firefly/Serenity will keep you busy and distracted till next years STD and Orville come back

maybe    

[Nusa]

So, what happened to ST Continues? I just saw that it's ended.

And a good ending too fwiw     


I've been waiting around for STD episode 10 to appear...and see where in nowhere the ship ended up (?!)

and after doing a web search, season one only has NINE episodes. STD scripters short on magic mushrooms ?

The Orville season one is up to episode 12 afaik   the 2 bonus episodes trekkie compensation for the toilet humor BS and many dumbass lines?


If you like spaceships and serious galactic badass, Killjoys, Dark Matter, The Expanse and of course Firefly/Serenity will keep you busy and distracted till next years STD and Orville come back

maybe    

That's because you're looking for an episode whose release date is in the future. So unless you have a time machine...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery#Episodes

[bitseeker]

So, what happened to ST Continues? I just saw that it's ended.

And a good ending too fwiw     

Yep. The good stuff always ends too soon.

[gnavigator1007]

So, what happened to ST Continues? I just saw that it's ended.

Multiple reasons from what I understand. I know they didn't raise as much money as they were hoping with the last round of crowdfunding. There had been a bunch of legal drama over a fan film called Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar that resulted in a lawsuit & Paramount/CBS creating new guidelines for fan films that kinda eliminate any projects of the scale of ST:C. I'm disappointed, but we're really only cut short 2 episodes. The original plan was to make 13, but we got 11 total. Sad that such an amazing set is just sitting there unused. 

Here's the fan film guidelines:
http://www.startrek.com/fan-films

[bitseeker]

Thanks for the info, gnav. It's also a shame that Paramount/CBS couldn't find a way to do more with ST:C. As you said, all the sets are there. I'm glad we got what we did, though.

[tszaboo]

Spoilers...
You've been warned.

So we are already at the mirror universe episodes? Really? In season 1? They usually go to mirror universe in season n+1 after fatigue playing the same character over and over again, to have some fun, before they cancel the show.

[bitseeker]

Thus, it may be a foreshadowing.

[james_s]

I was never into Star Trek when I was younger but after watching all of the original series a few years ago I started working my way through the newer ones and enjoyed all of them. I'm currently about halfway though Enterprise and find that disappointing though, it's like New Coke, trying to appeal to a broader audience and generally failing while also failing with fans of the previous series. The theme song is absolutely awful, every time it comes on we scramble for the remote to skip past it. I have not seen Discovery yet but given the direction TV as a whole has gone in recent years I'm skeptical.

[tszaboo]

And at this point, all the terran empire ships have female captains. 2/2. I cannot wait until they introduce Emperor Georgiou. Since they run out of characters that appear on the show, must be her. And the klingon empire shall be led by L’Rell of course. All we need is an all woman away team beating up klingons. Wait, we already had that.
Stupid directing.

[gnavigator1007]

I'm currently about halfway though Enterprise and find that disappointing though, it's like New Coke, trying to appeal to a broader audience and generally failing while also failing with fans of the previous series. The theme song is absolutely awful, every time it comes on we scramble for the remote to skip past it.

They definitely did a weird thing with Enterprise's theme song. I know a lot of other people love the Firefly theme, but it's even worse to me. I can't get into Discovery & it's not worth the effort at this point. I wish Farscape would have a comeback instead of these reimaginings of Star Trek, but I can't imagine tv execs going for it.

[bitseeker]

I was never into Star Trek when I was younger but after watching all of the original series a few years ago I started working my way through the newer ones and enjoyed all of them.... I have not seen Discovery yet but given the direction TV as a whole has gone in recent years I'm skeptical.

Definitely check out Star Trek Continues on YouTube, then. The series is done, so no waiting, and they just recently uploaded higher-resolution versions of all the episodes.

[gnavigator1007]

Definitely check out Star Trek Continues on YouTube, then. The series is done, so no waiting, and they just recently uploaded higher-resolution versions of all the episodes.

They've also added DVD & Blu-ray torrents as well as artwork to make your own complete series box sets!

[james_s]

They definitely did a weird thing with Enterprise's theme song. I know a lot of other people love the Firefly theme, but it's even worse to me. I can't get into Discovery & it's not worth the effort at this point. I wish Farscape would have a comeback instead of these reimaginings of Star Trek, but I can't imagine tv execs going for it.

I can't figure out what they were thinking, and I'm not even sure why it makes me cringe so much, I mean if the same song came on the radio I probably wouldn't mind it, I wouldn't turn it up but I don't think I'd turn it down either. There's just something that feels *so* wrong about it though in context, it's like biting into a gingerbread cookie and finding it's actually made of garlic sausage. I like garlic sausage, but not when I'm expecting a cookie. The closing theme during the credits would have done just fine as an opening theme.

Then when it comes to the show itself, it's ok, but I find the character drama is often overdone and over acted. Another thing that bugs me about all of the series is that they regularly send the most important crewmembers on ridiculously dangerous away missions. I understand why they do that for plot reasons but it still bugs me, like why is the captain going on on this crazy suicide task rather than any number of able volunteers from the crew?

[bitseeker]

Definitely check out Star Trek Continues on YouTube, then. The series is done, so no waiting, and they just recently uploaded higher-resolution versions of all the episodes.

They've also added DVD & Blu-ray torrents as well as artwork to make your own complete series box sets!

Thanks, I didn't see those. Here's a link if others are also interested. http://www.startrekcontinues.com/downloads.html

[tszaboo]

I would like to change my opinion. The show was really enjoyable in the 2nd season.

[apis]

I'm currently about halfway though Enterprise and find that disappointing though, it's like New Coke, trying to appeal to a broader audience and generally failing while also failing with fans of the previous series. The theme song is absolutely awful, every time it comes on we scramble for the remote to skip past it.

They definitely did a weird thing with Enterprise's theme song. I know a lot of other people love the Firefly theme, but it's even worse to me. I can't get into Discovery & it's not worth the effort at this point. I wish Farscape would have a comeback instead of these reimaginings of Star Trek, but I can't imagine tv execs going for it.

Babylon 5! I don't mind more Star Trek though, if they do it right.

In previous ST the opening was always about exploration, but for some reason they changed that in Discovery. I guess they are trying to make something new that appeals more to millennials.

[nctnico]

I would like to change my opinion. The show was really enjoyable in the 2nd season.

I agree but somehow I like 'The Orville' a little bit better. It has a more Star-Trek-ish feel to it.

[tszaboo]

Well, they are making a new show with Sir Patrick Stewart. They are going to diversify on the audience now. In fact there might be like 5 show running at the same time in the near future. We could have Discovery with lasers and explosions in the far future, Pickard with slow paced drama, and Section 31 for spy stories, academy for the younger audience.
They built an entire Enterprise A (pre Kirk) bridge, and placed 3 well developed characters on that ship, so probably we get a show just from that.
https://screenrant.com/new-star-trek-series/
That is a lot of trek.

[MarkF]

Have you seen Star Trek Continues episodes.  A group of people built an Enterprise set and their episodes are continuations of the original Star Trek with Kirk.  I found them very interesting and watched them all.

   

[Fungus]

in order for star trek to be itself
it needs to be roddenberry-ish in terms of story, it always talks about morals, religion, etc

The Orville does that.

[Electro Detective]

Have you seen Star Trek Continues episodes.  A group of people built an Enterprise set and their episodes are continuations of the original Star Trek with Kirk. 
I found them very interesting and watched them all.

Same here, a top effort by a budget limited fan based cast and crew   

There are some other similar ones on Youtube too, and full movie length jobs featuring a few original ST cast,
I forget the titles, very watchable   

The orville and discovery were an ordeal to sit through, just like the latest lost in space series
and there was another mindless babble filled sci fi thingie that's worse than all 3 combined.
It's that bad my brain refuses to recall the name of it    

--------------------

EDIT: strained brain recall: 'Altered Carbon' 

Even some of the tackiest (but well meaning  ) Star Trek fan produced videos are easier to digest,
that resemble something like a 'story line' one has a hope to follow, coupled with try hard amateur acting watchable after a few beers

[vtwin@cox.net]

My wife and I have been watching Discovery on Sunday evenings.

I guess I put it into the category of "mindless entertainment".

I have to admit, though, the S2 2-part finale was virtually unwatchable at times. The long, drawn out dialog between characters in the middle of crisis situations was bordering on ridiculous.

VoiceOver: ALERT! CONTROL IS ARRIVING IN 30 SECONDS!
Character 1 (to character 2): I love you
Character 2 (to character 1): I love you
Character 1: No, I really love you
Character 2: I love you more
Character 1: I mean I really love you
blah blah blah
5 minutes of dialog later, cut away to the next scene. All while people around you are screaming, dying, the fate of the humanity rests with you doing your job, etc.

Some of the cinematography started to remind if of the overdramatic, long, drawn out, absolutely tedious to the point of "I want to put a bullet in my head" scenes from STTMP.

Other things were ridiculous to the point of absurdity. Case in point: Admirals do not sacrifice themselves. They order a passing ensign or a crewman to enter the room and pull the emergency hatch manual override switch once they have exited the area with the undetonated photon torpedo and then enter a commendation into the ensign/crewman's record for their sacrifice.. That's what admirals do. Order other people to die.

I agree with one of the previous posters that Sonequa Martin-Green is an absolutely horrible actress. Or, at least, improperly cast for this role.

Pike was a good character and well cast. I could see a good Trek series cast around him.

The Ash Tyler character always seemed like he just snorted a line or two of coke or was amped on uppers or a caffeine trip.. His mannerisms grated on my nerves.

Spock looked better with the beard.

I guess I could care less about people's sexuality to give a rats ass that I have to be reminded each week that two of the main characters are gay.

And, of course, I'm dating myself by saying I've always lusted for Jayne Brook ever since Kindergarten Cop.

None of the other supporting cast members made a memorable impression on me.

If the series doesn't get renewed, I wouldn't miss it.