Why do I already not like Star Trek Discovery?

[TerraHertz]

So, Star Trek, as interpreted by graduates of the Common Core education disaster? Projecting onto all the characters, especially Klingons?

Everyone can relax now, this is not star trek, false alarm. Its like all the logic, the rules the lore and everything went out of the window.

Spoiler Alert







Spoiler Alert
Seriously, they do a race vs culture discussion in S01E01. Bridge is on the bottom of the ship. And they send out the first officer in an EV suite on a dangerous mission (shuttle pods DOH!). They start the series by starfleet officers (captain + first officer, against regulations) shooting a phase cannon (no phase cannons in that era). And meeting a klingon in S01E01, not knowing immedieatly what it is and attacking it. How original. No other show did that. Except in enterprise, they did everything to save the klingon, here it is " charge proton rocket launcher and kill them all, before they see us"

And we had fight between officers, first officer assaulting captain, captain threatening first officer with a phaser. Instead of saying "you are relieved of duty, leave the bridge". I mean what the hell. Did they see any episodes before? Is there anyone who knows ST sitting at the writers table and screaming "that is not how ST works"

Its like Star trek XI again. They show London, and it is not raining. You cannot change things like this.

[Corporate666]

Everyone can relax now, this is not star trek, false alarm. Its like all the logic, the rules the lore and everything went out of the window.

Spoiler Alert

Seriously, they do a race vs culture discussion in S01E01. Bridge is on the bottom of the ship. And they send out the first officer in an EV suite on a dangerous mission (shuttle pods DOH!). They start the series by starfleet officers (captain + first officer, against regulations) shooting a phase cannon (no phase cannons in that era). And meeting a klingon in S01E01, not knowing immedieatly what it is and attacking it. How original. No other show did that. Except in enterprise, they did everything to save the klingon, here it is " charge proton rocket launcher and kill them all, before they see us"

And we had fight between officers, first officer assaulting captain, captain threatening first officer with a phaser. Instead of saying "you are relieved of duty, leave the bridge". I mean what the hell. Did they see any episodes before? Is there anyone who knows ST sitting at the writers table and screaming "that is not how ST works"

Its like Star trek XI again. They show London, and it is not raining. You cannot change things like this.

I couldn't disagree more - and based on the reviews, I think most people disagree and think ST:Discovery is really good, because it is!

Regarding your complaints...

*spoilers*

-What's the issue with the race vs culture thing?  It's reminiscent of Kirk's objection in The Undiscovered Country - that Klingons know only war and we have to be brutal or be destroyed.
-What's the problem with the bridge location?  These are ships that operate in 3 dimensions, it could be deep in the center of the ship and wouldn't matter. 
-I agree it was hard to imagine they would send a first officer in a spacesuit to investigate an unknown object, but they explained why they can't use a ship for it. 
-They didn't immediately attack the Klingon - it was self defense.
-The 1st officer was advocating a preemptive attack, but that didn't happen.  Again, no different than Kirk's attitude towards Klingons.
-Not sure what your beef is with the captain pointing the phaser at the first officer.  Such power struggles after disobeying orders have been done *dozens* of times across ST series!

*END SPOILERS*

It sounds like you hated it before you ever watched an episode.  I think this ST is great! 

For anyone who hasn't seen it, give it a shot.  One of my beefs with things like Star Wars was that they tried to soften it and add too much humor and make it child friendly.  When Disney took over, the grit came back.  That's what this new ST series does - brings back the grit.  It is not individual episodes which stand on their own, but rather one big story arc that spans the whole season, similar to what DS9 did with the Dominion or Voyager did with the Borg.  And that's a good thing - they were running very thin on ideas with stand-alone episodes.

The imagery and special effects are absolutely fantastic - on par with the best of any of the movies.  The lead character is great too - complex and interesting and definitely not an in-your-face SJW pandering character.  The story is just unfolding, but it seems to be good - without spoiling, it's clear that the series will chronicle the resurgence of the Klingon empire as they enter a galaxy-wide confrontation with the Federation.  Much like the newest ST movies with Chris Pine, it's clear the writers aren't burdening themselves with remaining totally true to the canon of the old series.  They aren't being ridiculous like inventing entire new universes, but (for example) they aren't trying to make their technology look the same as The Old Series. 

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it - unless you're one of those folks that already dislikes it and is just looking for things to shit on about the series.  It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

[calexanian]

I re watched. After the special effects wore off, it was pretty terrible. They really just needed to let the okudas produce it and have veterans direct it.

[BrianHG]

I re watched. After the special effects wore off, it was pretty terrible. They really just needed to let the okudas produce it and have veterans direct it.

You got it....

[stmdude]

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it - unless you're one of those folks that already dislikes it and is just looking for things to shit on about the series.  It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

Exactly my thoughs as well. Thanks for saving me the typing.

In my opinion, none of series got good until at least the second season. Heck, in my opinion, DS9 took 3-4 seasons until it got enjoyable.

[Fungus]

I feel like Star Trek Discovery is coming at us like a truck full of total dissapointment and its brakes are cut. I know this will corrupt my ability to fairly assess it. I liked The Orville though. I find myself looking forward to watching them and was saddened that it will only be a 13 episode season.

I only found out about it yesterday so I had no expectations. I watched the premiere and it was mostly just two hours of "Starship Commanders" having hissy fits and acting like 16 year old girls.

[Fungus]

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it

If you think 'Voyager' and 'DS9' is Star Trek then I can how you might be confused.

It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

Nice summary of the problem.

Did they explore anything or seek out new worlds and civilizations?

Would a real starship bridge have dramatic lighting like that or would it give people headaches?

[tszaboo]

I couldn't disagree more

I'm sorry, I'm not going to strawman your arguments, it is a dick move. I just voiced my opinion that the series is not faithful at all to the origins it claims to belong. I had much much bigger problems with the series than the ones in this argument.
It is missing the core points of ST, and it tries to mimic it's looks. Look at the communicator. That is an exact replica of the original series. And a bunch of other props are brought in too. And if you couple this with all the new gadgets, it becomes a big ol' mess. You cannot mix technologies that look 60 years apart.
And the characters act nothing like they are supposed to. Klingons dont collect the dead after a battle. It is an empty shell to them. ST officers dont booby trap fallen soldiers, because that is savage and un civilized. Also, they dont blow up their own ship just to damage other ship. In fact, the captain would stay on a ship as long as necessary to make sure everyone under his/her command could get to escape pods.
And yes. Shield are holding, hull breach on every single deck.
Federation ships are always well lit, functional. Not this dark, reflective shiny blue.
There is a modern ST, which remained faithful. Enterprise. It doesnt even have the federation, but it was more reflecting the core values of it. This is the ST wrtiitten by someone, who only saw the mirror universe episodes.

In a nutshell, it's only 2 episodes in, but they were both very good.  Infinitely better than Encounter At Farpoint, or that crap with the Caretaker on Voyager, and better than how DS9 started off.  If you are a ST fan, you will like it - unless you're one of those folks that already dislikes it and is just looking for things to shit on about the series.  It's more action packed and visually stunning than any other ST series, and more like a movie thus far.

Exactly my thoughs as well. Thanks for saving me the typing.

In my opinion, none of series got good until at least the second season. Heck, in my opinion, DS9 took 3-4 seasons until it got enjoyable.

Yes, DS9 (The Dominion), the TNG (Shut up Wesley) and even the Enterprise (The Xindi) took some time to become a good series.

[Fungus]

And the characters act nothing like they are supposed to.

This.

A senior officer on a starship would be the ultimate in professionalism at all times. None of the officers shown yesterday were, not at any time, even the captain. The ship was in danger. She should have thrown the first officer off the bridge the very first time she invaded her personal space and called her by her first name in front of the crew (which the first officer would never have done in the first place - because she'd be a professional).

The ship didn't seem practical/functional at all. The bridge lighting was a complete joke.

There was no sense of protocol on board, eg. They weren't even at amber alert after the Klingon ship appeared? They had to wait until the Klingons fired before suddenly leaping to red alert? WTF? How hard are details like that to get right?

I'm not saying nobody could possibly have enjoyed it or that it won't be a huge success but it ain't Star Trek.

[AF6LJ]

And the characters act nothing like they are supposed to.

This.

A senior officer on a starship would be the ultimate in professionalism at all times. None of the officers shown yesterday were, not at any time, even the captain. She should have thrown the first officer off the bridge the very first time she invaded her personal space and called her by her first name in front of the crew (which the first officer would never have done in the first place - because she'd be a professional).

The ship didn't seem preactical/functional at all. The bridge lighting was a complete joke.

There was no sense of protocol on board, eg. They weren't even at amber alert after the Klingon ship appeared? They had to wait until the Klingons fired before suddenly leaping to red alert? WTF? How hard are details like that to get right?

I'm not saying nobody could possibly have enjoyed it or that it won't be a huge success but it ain't Star Trek.

This does not bode well for a series that claims to be part of the Star Trek saga..
Makes me wonder when the social agenda, and virtue signaling begins.

[calexanian]

I will put it another way. I would not want to be stationed on a ship with any of the people I saw. Any of the other series I would have no problem living with those people. These people seemed unprofessional and petty. Even Sarek seemed very non Sarek. The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

[rdl]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

...
The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

[tszaboo]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

...
The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

Its also on netflix. At least here. For the amount of content there is on netflix, I gladly pay that "monthly pizza money".

[AF6LJ]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

I am not sure if I am going to shell out the $6.00+ a month to watch one series.
As I understand it last night's episode is the only one to be on "normal" TV...

...
The more i think about it the more i just don't like it and I do not know if non trek fans will subscribe to a service to see more. Die hard fans will subscribe to watch the train wreck.

Its also on netflix. At least here. For the amount of content there is on netflix, I gladly pay that "monthly pizza money".

Netflix has blocked distributions of ST Discovery in the US, you have to sign up with CBS's online service to watch it.

[The Doktor]

Wow, you have to pay for this?

Not if you use binary newsgroups or bittorent.

[rdl]

I guess a lot of other people had the same idea.

Star Trek: Discovery is getting pirated a lot

[nctnico]

I guess a lot of other people had the same idea.
Star Trek: Discovery is getting pirated a lot

No wonder... I don't get why every company wants to setup their own TV streaming service with a very limited amount of content (Amazon, Disney and now CBS). Like everyone is going to pay a subscription to multiple streaming services  If they got their sh*t together they would also offer the content to Netflix. In the end only healthy competition leads to a healthy market.

[691175002]

I think they struke a good balance between the spirit of the original TV show and the movies.  I know some people think the previous sentence is impossible, but the truth is that some of the original ST was absolutely awful and some parts of the movies were very entertaining.

Keep in mind that the episodes covered what will likely be one of the worst days in starfleet history.  I'm not sure its fair to judge their crew on how they act during their first (and for some, only) experience with combat; especially given the histories involved.  Micheal was not a model first officer, and was arguably only in the role due to her parentage.  She failed horribly.  That was the point.

I hope the show takes a more introspective slant going forward.  They certainly have the opportunity to do so.

There were a few spectacularly dumb decisions made by the crew, but if we are being fair the original star trek had some real head scratchers as well.  I honestly don't know why you would beam your captain and first officer onto a hostile Klingon war vessel without backup, but at least they paid for it.

I was overall impressed by ST:D, but episodes 3 and maybe 4 will be the real test.  They've made an impression and now its time to step away from the action.

[bitseeker]

tldr: Copyright f*cks up everything, again.

If the information in this video is correct with regard to the licensing mess that resulted from the splitting up of CBS and Paramount, then it's no wonder that ST is so different nowadays. It can't be true to the original because the license prevents it.

What puzzles me is why it can be similar enough to cause this kind of confusion. Who thought that was a good idea?

Anyway, I'll wait until things shake out before I invest time in the series. Maybe if it survives into a second season, I'll check it out.

[Fungus]

Keep in mind that the episodes covered what will likely be one of the worst days in starfleet history.  I'm not sure its fair to judge their crew on how they act during their first (and for some, only) experience with combat;

It's 100% fair. These people have gone through starfleet academy selection and are in charge of hundreds of lives plus a very expensive piece of hardware.

The devil is in the details and the details made it feel nothing like a starship. The first words out of the captain's mouth after the klingon ship appeared should have been "Amber alert". Two minutes later there should have been two guards and maybe a medical officer standing by the entrance to the bridge. It's drilled into every single officer on a starship.

It's basic procedure, it makes it seem like a starship. Unlike two girls having hissy fits in front of the crew.

It's also cheap to do - just a couple of non-speaking actors standing at the back of the set.

If these are the writers and directors assigned to the job then it's not going to be Star Trek. It's just Teen Dance Academy in Space.

if we are being fair the original star trek had...XXX

Sure, but they got the basics right using just painted plywood, rubber rocks and no CGI. They got it so right that we're still trying to keep it going 50 years later.

[tszaboo]

I've been thinking about this for some time. I actually have an idea, which would have been made this show great. Just one little change in the setting, and everything would have been fine. If the ship is not Starfleet. Change that, and all is fine.
The ship is Section 31. There. Think about it, they could have used any experimental technology, any ship design, any kind of tactics (except bitching). And they could have gone down the moral rabbit hole, nobody would have complained.

[Ice-Tea]

I'm not a purist (even though "Hey let's just add huuuuge guns" certainly annoyed me in 2013), so I'll give it a chance.

But it'd better have less Klingons talking slowly for minutes on end...

[calexanian]

Totoally agree. If the Klingons had been looks and speech wise left as they were and the ship had been more in line with what we had been accustomed to, but obviously in line with modern visual effects, it would have been 90% there. Enough that people would be with it, and not against it. I blame Les Moonves and his wanting to sexy up, his words not mine, Star Trek.

[nctnico]

Over the past decades of Star-trek Klingons have looked different. IIRC there is an ST episode somewhere explaining why.
Ofcourse internet is like the number 42: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/klingon_evolution.htm

[apelly]

Sanest multi-page thread for years!