Author Topic: Why is it the more I read the EEVblog forum, my expectations of Apple keeps...  (Read 43393 times)

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Offline PartialDischarge

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Offline Halcyon

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Sooo quick that it forgets all the stuff included in Macos  ::)
Like this?
:palm:

What's the matter? You post screen shots showing Windows in "vulnerable" positions, but when someone does the same with respect to Apple, they get a face palm? Hypocrite much?
 

Offline filssavi

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There is a simple solution, don’t buy Apple products full stop

You don’t have to bitch and moan on the internet for that

For the rest of us who are interested, there is a great deal of experience and expertise here and someone might just learn something.

What should I learn?

how crap Apple products are and how great just about anything else is?

How you can’t repair Apple products but everything else is the most repairable thing ever

How Apple products are so expensive and anything else is 800 milion $ cheaper

This is just another Apple Shittalk thread like you can find I just about everywhere on the internet...

There is nothing to learn it’s always the same 10 years old arguments people who would like to buy Apple but don’t want to spend that much make
 

Offline Halcyon

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More or less.
 

Tac Eht Xilef

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As a person in general, I tend to like to shit on things for the kicks. To me, a fleshed out debate about shit nobody should care about is like a round of gold. It's mentally engaging and relaxing to me.

Thank you for being an arsehole on the Internet. You are a unique and special snowflake who, by making the world a slightly shittier place, has earned the respect and admiration of every other arsehole on the Internet.
 

Offline Halcyon

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More or less.

I can understand people paying 2x, 3x or even 5x the price on a premium computer. But $/gflops wise, some Apple computers (custom made i7 12") are 20x more expensive than Taiwanese gaming laptops. That's insanity.

That was the point I was making on the previous page. I was comparing the cost of Apple to Lenovo (because I'm looking at laptops for myself). Not only is the Lenovo cheaper, but in some cases has higher spec'd components and is probably more durable than the Apple. Since then, a few users got all hot and bothered.

Yes, I like Lenovo products, but I have no issues looking at Dell or HP either.
 

Online wraper

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more like this,
https://support.apple.com/kb/PH25125?locale=en_US
There is barely anything that's not included in windows. And itunes is one piece of crapware I won't touch with a ten foot pole. Not that you can't get a few things that's missing by default for completely free, including craptunes.
 

Offline Elasia

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More or less.

I can understand people paying 2x, 3x or even 5x the price on a premium computer. But $/gflops wise, some Apple computers (custom made i7 12") are 20x more expensive than Taiwanese gaming laptops. That's insanity.

That was the point I was making on the previous page. I was comparing the cost of Apple to Lenovo (because I'm looking at laptops for myself). Not only is the Lenovo cheaper, but in some cases has higher spec'd components and is probably more durable than the Apple. Since then, a few users got all hot and bothered.

Yes, I like Lenovo products, but I have no issues looking at Dell or HP either.

Loved the closed beach :)

X1 Carbon... been using them or years, best ultrabook around for pc.  We used to use macbook airs when they came out and put windows on them due to being the first real ultrabook, worked ok.

Cant go wrong business class dell/hp/lenovo.. consumer.. ehh
 

Offline Harb

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If the PC platform is so unbeatable why do PC users have to constantly justify why they have one and why they are better than a Mac........
Do as you will, it's your choice, but for me , My downtime and bank balance tell the story for me.......computers are one thing I don't have to worry about anymore......never.....I just want a computer to do what I need to do, and they do that every day every week......I don''t need an IT person on staff......if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
 
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Online wraper

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Do as you will, it's your choice, but for me , My downtime and bank balance tell the story for me.......computers are one thing I don't have to worry about anymore......never.....I just want a computer to do what I need to do, and they do that every day every week......I don''t need an IT person on staff......if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
Until GPU fails due to weak cooling and you cannot recover the data because SSD is soldered onto the motherboard.
 

Offline nctnico

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If the PC platform is so unbeatable why do PC users have to constantly justify why they have one and why they are better than a Mac........
if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
Now you are more likely comparing the OS and not the hardware. Sure with Apple you also buy the hardware but since that is basically a PC nowadays the only differentiation is the software.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Harb

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If the PC platform is so unbeatable why do PC users have to constantly justify why they have one and why they are better than a Mac........
if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
Now you are more likely comparing the OS and not the hardware. Sure with Apple you also buy the hardware but since that is basically a PC nowadays the only differentiation is the software.

Even there, the hardware is amazing compared to anything else on the market......just a work of art inside one.
 

Online HighVoltage

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A month ago I spent about 6 hours on iTunes with a windows 7 PC and tried to get my data from a iPhone 6 to an iPhone7. After 6 hours I gave up and sold both, the iPhone 6 and the brand new iPhone 7.

I always liked the iPhone for some reasons but when I learned why I could not connect to simple Bluetooth devices from Keysight I started to really dislike apple. Every manufacturer that wants to sell BT devices that connect to apple stuff has to pay for a licensed BT device. How ridicules is that !

A family member just bought a brand new VW Multivan. He spent over 60k Euro on it.
Guess what, in order to connect his iPhone to the car , he needs to spend an extra 500 Euro!!!
Any other adroid phone will connect without any extra pay!

So, we bought a few OnePlus phones, the best move I have ever made in regards to smartphones.
https://www.oneplus.com/de

Never Apple again for me.
 
 
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
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Online wraper

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Even there, the hardware is amazing compared to anything else on the market......just a work of art inside one.
Amazing load of garbage when it comes to reliability, especially laptops. And as I said, any motherboard fault that prevents it from booting, forget about your data.
 

Offline Harb

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Do as you will, it's your choice, but for me , My downtime and bank balance tell the story for me.......computers are one thing I don't have to worry about anymore......never.....I just want a computer to do what I need to do, and they do that every day every week......I don''t need an IT person on staff......if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
Until GPU fails due to weak cooling and you cannot recover the data because SSD is soldered onto the motherboard.

30 machines, 10 years , constantly processing Large Video files, never turned of from the day they get installed....... you might have to let me know when that will happen lol
 

Offline nctnico

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If the PC platform is so unbeatable why do PC users have to constantly justify why they have one and why they are better than a Mac........
if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
Now you are more likely comparing the OS and not the hardware. Sure with Apple you also buy the hardware but since that is basically a PC nowadays the only differentiation is the software.
Even there, the hardware is amazing compared to anything else on the market......just a work of art inside one.
Appearantly you've never seen a Dell or HP workstation on the inside. They ain't cheap but there is no comparison against a PC in a  standard ATX case where it comes to thermal design.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online wraper

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30 machines, 10 years , constantly processing Large Video files, never turned of from the day they get installed....... you might have to let me know when that will happen lol
Those certainly are not laptops which I was meaning. Video processing on 10y old hardware sound stupid regarding performance.
 

Offline olkipukki

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Why is it the more I read the EEVblog forum, my expectations of Apple keeps getting lower and lower. 
IMHO, your expectations in opposite way than Apple.

Why fuss about that?
You nothing invested yet, so nothing to lose (except time you spent while reading about Apple stuff)

I then had no choice but to go to MS Windows because of the availability of CAD software and IC compilers, but with Windows lately, I was thinking of taking a serious look into MacOS.

What benefits did you expect from Mac OS?
Just able to run AutoCAD for Mac natively...  :popcorn: or SolidWorks/Inventor in VM for some reason?  :palm:

For example, I bought my Mac mini server (2011) more than 6 years ago as a "light" desktop and this is one of the best purchase (well, I replaced crapy HDDs with SSDs from day one and added extra memory to 16GB in total)
That's still fine and no plans to through sell it on eBay yet.
Would I buy it now?
Absolutely not! I will buy either HP Z2 Mini... or build a custom box using Streacom cases!

Same for notebook, replaced ThinkPad with MacBook Pro 13" (2013) 4+ years ago as a travelling notebook, hopefully will last for another 3-4 years at least.
Would I buy it now?
Absolutely not! I don't need their useless Touch Bar etc.

In fact, for both above, excellent ROI.
 

Offline drussell

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One word solution
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2018, 01:24:23 pm »
FreeBSD
 

Offline Harb

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If the PC platform is so unbeatable why do PC users have to constantly justify why they have one and why they are better than a Mac........
if only every bit of gear I use worked as faultlessly as my computer system does.
Now you are more likely comparing the OS and not the hardware. Sure with Apple you also buy the hardware but since that is basically a PC nowadays the only differentiation is the software.
Even there, the hardware is amazing compared to anything else on the market......just a work of art inside one.
Appearantly you've never seen a Dell or HP workstation on the inside. They ain't cheap but there is no comparison against a PC in a  standard ATX case where it comes to thermal design.

I have 2 brand new bells and whistles 1/4 million dollar HP systems that get used twice a week to run a Virtual system for broadcast TV, and they work fine, but even though they have attempted to copy the Mac in construction, they are no where near as well done.
 

Offline Ampera

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As a person in general, I tend to like to shit on things for the kicks. To me, a fleshed out debate about shit nobody should care about is like a round of gold. It's mentally engaging and relaxing to me.

Thank you for being an arsehole on the Internet. You are a unique and special snowflake who, by making the world a slightly shittier place, has earned the respect and admiration of every other arsehole on the Internet.

Awww, you're such a dear. Thanks for describing to me the respect and admiration I not only receive, but deserve for engaging in debates on internet forums. You are truly a number one guy. I'd imagine you'd be great fun at a pub or party (or a pub party).

I believe the enjoyment of various operating systems is nearly completely subjective. The only objective point is software support which doesn't matter to all people, and is something WinAPI has been hogging for decades.

If you think that OS/X is worth the massive price chasm, go for it, but don't pin shit that Windows users don't have to deal with, and never have for years upon years on us. most Antivirus is free (Avast being the best free option to mind). Crashes are very rare, at least in my experience on a properly functioning machine. My modern i7 machine running Windows 2016  has not had a major crash for as long as I can remember.

Don't take this as unanimous support for the NT kernel. ACTUAL issues include an absolutely bloated kernel and operating system, terrible spying and bloatware practices (Apple isn't innocent of this either, nor is pretty much anybody these days, but Microsoft is being pretty bad), the broken abortion that was UWP, Updates that have been less than amazing (Apple is also guilty here), and as a purely subjective note, I think a terrible design in general. As a former competitor nearly directly to Unix workstations, I'm honestly surprised NT ended up the way it did.

Also don't forget you still have your competition in the Unix/Linux world that are as stable, if not more so, with options like OpenBSD being a respected veteran in being tough and secure as balls.
I forget who I am sometimes, but then I remember that it's probably not worth remembering.
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Online rsjsouza

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My US$0.02... As others have also pointed out, there's criticism to Apple's Hardware, SW and business practices. Take any criticism and praise with a pound of salt, as these fields are quite entrenched and will always be based on personal experience - AFAIK there is no Pew Research whitepaper that reflects likes and dislikes with a specific brand.

My criticism falls mostly into their business practices, especially the later battery obsolescence and screen BS as well as their trend to kill accessible and ubiquitous standard ports to lock in to their accessory ecosystem. I also have a somewhat bad experience of their SW and a peeve with their recurring attempts to rewrite computing history, but that is minor.

All in all, Windows and Linux also have their flaws (especially after release 10 of Windows and release 12 of Ubuntu), but the PC market gives you a healthy diversity of suppliers of Hardware, SW and features that Apple can only dream of.

The TL;DR version:
Their products were good for my wife in the days that iPods were the thing - my wife went through two generations but got sick of their complete disregard for compatibility and third party enablement when they switched connectors - at the early days of their smaller connector, nothing other than Apple accessories worked well. At the same time I had the iPod touch 8GB and used it as my "PDA", as it was an interesting replacement for my aging Lifedrive. However, its stability (after an OS update that I couldn't revert) and barebone calendar and contacts applications (without a suitable repalcement in their store) drove me away from them when I decided to move to a full featured smartphone (their iPhone at the time had the same bare applications).
Fast forward a few years (2014) and at work I got a brand spanking new to MacbookPro notebook for our SW testing at work. At the same time I got for free a macmini at home from a few years earlier (2008). The contrast between the macmini and similar PCs of its time is absolutely astonishing: the seamless integration of Bluetooth, WiFi and its smoothness of operation are absolutely astonishing.

The MacbookPro is also a very nice machine, although the contrast with a 2014 PC of the same class is almost non-existing: the Retina screen is certainly much nicer than a comparable screen of a PC (mostly at full HD unless paying a tremendous markup) but most everything else were variations of the same theme that even my wife's Toshiba ultranotebook of 2012 already had at a much lower price.
After that, Apple's business luminaries  decided to go through a "port killing spree" which greatly reduced their value for us: we can't afford the impracticality of a computer that needed to be plugged to USB ports and business projectors via a plethora of adapters that can be easily forgotten or lost during business trips.

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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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A month ago I spent about 6 hours on iTunes with a windows 7 PC and tried to get my data from a iPhone 6 to an iPhone7. After 6 hours I gave up and sold both, the iPhone 6 and the brand new iPhone 7.

Funny you mention that.  I just went through the very same thing.  I only spent a couple of hours on it as I had to update the 2 phones to the latest iOS and iTunes to the latest build.  After I got that all figured out, it went very smooth and everything copied but the Exchange email but we had a procedure for that.

Apparantly you've never seen a Dell or HP workstation on the inside. They ain't cheap but there is no comparison against a PC in a  standard ATX case where it comes to thermal design.

When I bought my DELL Precision T5500 from the local surplus store, I opened it up first.  Even though it is a workstation, it reminded me of the inside of a full size server.  Damn thing weighs about the same also.  This was a Vista Business era computer.  I loaded Win10 Pro 64 bit and all drivers loaded on install except the NVidia FX-3800, that updated on first reboot.  This is now my primary computer and is the fastest computer I have, including my Lenovo T460 Core i7 company laptop.

 Business class computers will always be better than consumer PCs.  Most people just don't want to spend that kind of money.  When I was doing Dell warranty work, the Lattitude business class laptops took far more abuse than the Inspiron laptops ever could.  Even better, the Lattitudes were far easier to take apart and repair than the Inspiron 7000 and 7500 desktop replacement series ever were.  I remember another tech I worked with had to go on a call for an Inspiron 7500 not long after they were released, it needed a new motherboard.  He got it apart and couldn't figure out how to put it back together.  He brought it into the office in a box, completely in pieces, much to the chagrin of all, including one very pissed off customer.  My boss handed it to me, took 2 hours to get it back together/working with no screws left over and I had to deliver it to the customer.  That tech was no longer allowed to touch that particular laptop ever again. 

Having never owned anything Apple, I can't weigh in at all on the quality of the hardware/software.  As someone who serviced probably in excess of a 1000 Dell laptops while I had that job,  I truly cringe at seeing batteries glued in and having to take the laptop apart to get to it, SSDs soldered to mainboards, and keyboards that are riveted in. Why?  Is is truly because Apple doesn't care and just wants you to spend even more and more money with them on new upgrades instead of repair?  I don't know but in my squirrelly little brain, it does seem so.  Since that job, I still get to work on the occasional Dell, HP, Acer and Sony laptops, didn't take much to figure out how to peel them open and fix them.  Plenty parts available.  I would never try an Apple laptop.

"Heaven has been described as the place that once you get there all the dogs you ever loved run up to greet you."
 

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Why is it the more I read the EEVblog forum, my expectations of Apple keeps getting lower and lower. 
IMHO, your expectations in opposite way than Apple.

Why fuss about that?
You nothing invested yet, so nothing to lose (except time you spent while reading about Apple stuff)

I then had no choice but to go to MS Windows because of the availability of CAD software and IC compilers, but with Windows lately, I was thinking of taking a serious look into MacOS.

What benefits did you expect from Mac OS?
Just able to run AutoCAD for Mac natively...  :popcorn: or SolidWorks/Inventor in VM for some reason?  :palm:

For example, I bought my Mac mini server (2011) more than 6 years ago as a "light" desktop and this is one of the best purchase (well, I replaced crapy HDDs with SSDs from day one and added extra memory to 16GB in total)
That's still fine and no plans to through sell it on eBay yet.
Would I buy it now?
Absolutely not! I will buy either HP Z2 Mini... or build a custom box using Streacom cases!

Same for notebook, replaced ThinkPad with MacBook Pro 13" (2013) 4+ years ago as a travelling notebook, hopefully will last for another 3-4 years at least.
Would I buy it now?
Absolutely not! I don't need their useless Touch Bar etc.

In fact, for both above, excellent ROI.

     Well, I'm thinking of beginning a new company which will have over 40 employees.  We will be creating a Cell Phone/tablet PC app which will need to run on Android, IOs, Windows, plus a piece of hardware to be designed in house which we are already married to Altium.  Now, I know we need at least 1 Mac to compile the IOs project.  In house, we will be creating a 100% specialized audio music editor which my software developer has given me the choice of making Win, or MacOS, or, even Linux based.  At least 30 of the employees will be the editors running this software and they will need matched headphone audio setups which cannot change, and will need replacing as failures are expected over at least 10 year life of the company.  Now, do I trust I can go with Mac PC and for the next 10 years, always get the same replacement MACs with identical audio outputs, or, do I stick with generic PCs.

     So far, I'm getting the feeling that serious computing MacOS may not be the way to go.  I feel as time goes on over the 10 years, to keep my in house 'reference' audio lab functioning as hardware bits will need replacing, placing my business in the hands of Apple would be a move like a gamble.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 07:02:15 pm by BrianHG »
 

Offline Halcyon

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So far, I'm getting the feeling that serious computing MacOS may not be the way to go.  I feel as time goes on over the 10 years, to keep my in house 'reference' audio lab functioning as hardware bits will need replacing, placing my business in the hands of Apple would be a move like a gamble.

From what you describe, it isn't. You don't have that granular control of Apple hardware as you do with a PC. At least if you build your own machine (and know what you're doing), you can build it exactly to your specifications and it will probably be of better quality and reliability than what you'll get out of an Apple box.

Yes it means a little more extra work, planning and doing your homework, but at the end of the day, you'll end up with a workhorse which will probably last 10 years or more if you wanted it to.

This is exactly what I did when I was doing video editing. I built myself (at the time) a high-spec Xeon machine based on a Supermicro motherboard. The only thing I've done since is increase the RAM and upgrade the SSD. That's it. It still works like a charm.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 08:18:18 pm by Halcyon »
 


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