Why SpaceX Are Going to Beat NASA to Mars

[In Vacuo Veritas]

You don't realize how you've been manipulated by horseshit space religion and goofy-ass propaganda about weapons disguised as "exploration".

So what, GPS was purely military system in the past. Pleas comment if navigation is not useful in everyday life?

Please comment if that is exploration or colonization? No one is arguing against slapping radios in tin cans into orbit.

Extrapolating that into Mars Cornucopia and The Species Is Doomed(tm) horseshit is where I draw the line.

[apis]

You don't realize how you've been manipulated by horseshit space religion and goofy-ass propaganda about weapons disguised as "exploration".

So what, GPS was purely military system in the past. Pleas comment if navigation is not useful in everyday life?

I think weather satellites, satellites monitoring global climate, communications satellites, etc, are pretty useful as well. And why not systems for deflecting asteroids that would otherwise hit earth?

[In Vacuo Veritas]

Please describe what a monkey in a space suit is accomplishing by getting 400 kilometers closer to stars light years away?

Those monkeys at the ISS do a ton of experiments that can only be done in micro gravity. Kind of hard to do down on Earth.

[/quote]

Yes! Vitally important .. stuff! Come on, at this point it's like historical re-enactment theater.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

You don't realize how you've been manipulated by horseshit space religion and goofy-ass propaganda about weapons disguised as "exploration".

So what, GPS was purely military system in the past. Pleas comment if navigation is not useful in everyday life?

I think weather satellites, satellites monitoring global climate, communications satellites, etc, are pretty useful as well. And why not systems for deflecting asteroids that would otherwise hit earth?

Again, none of these are manned, none of these are on Mars, none of these are exploring or colonizing anything. So what's the point in bringing that up?

Deflecting asteroids? What??? How the hell do you even propose to begin to be able to think that we are able to do that?

It would be like farting at a hurricane and expecting it to shift trajectory.

You've been daydreaming you're Q from Star Trek again, haven't you? We can't even predict earthquakes or volcanoes right here on Earth and can barely manage to do anything about it except run as fast as possible.

What exactly do you think we're capable of, exactly? We'll just thaw Bruce Willis out in 2050 and strap some dynamite to a Space Shuttle and
Save The Species from SPAAAAACE DOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
Mental onanism for nerds.

[wraper]

It would be like farting at a hurricane and expecting it to shift trajectory.

If you fart on asteroid far away enough from the Earth, tiny change of it's trajectory would be enough for it to miss the Earth.

[james_s]

The issue with mining any kind of resources from another planet is the immense cost of returning them to Earth. There could be a literal mountain on mars made entirely of stacks of gold bars and I'm not sure it would ever be worth going to get any of them. The cost of retrieval would likely exceed the value of the gold, and that's ignoring the fact that adding a large amount of gold would likely cause the price to drop. Helium is far lighter than gold, but even so I don't see how a significant enough quantity could be shipped back to Earth. Even if you can reuse the rocket, it still requires a massive amount of fuel to escape gravity, that's just physics.

[apis]

Please describe what a monkey in a space suit is accomplishing by getting 400 kilometers closer to stars light years away?

Those monkeys at the ISS do a ton of experiments that can only be done in micro gravity. Kind of hard to do down on Earth.

Yes! Vitally important .. stuff! Come on, at this point it's like historical re-enactment theater.

Here you go (not an exhaustive list):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_research_on_the_International_Space_Station

Deflecting asteroids? What??? How the hell do you even propose to begin to be able to think that we are able to do that?

So you are one of those "how dare we insignificant ants think we can change the course of mighty nature or avoid that asteroid that God sent here to punish us". Give me a break. Of course it would be possible to nudge a rock a bit if it looks like it will hit earth. And it would be worth all the money in the world if we can do it. Depends on the precise circumstances of course, we might not be able to prevent all possible asteroid impact scenarios, but we might just be able to divert the majority of dangerous asteroids... if we prepare for it.

[apis]

The issue with mining any kind of resources from another planet is the immense cost of returning them to Earth. There could be a literal mountain on mars made entirely of stacks of gold bars and I'm not sure it would ever be worth going to get any of them. The cost of retrieval would likely exceed the value of the gold, and that's ignoring the fact that adding a large amount of gold would likely cause the price to drop. Helium is far lighter than gold, but even so I don't see how a significant enough quantity could be shipped back to Earth. Even if you can reuse the rocket, it still requires a massive amount of fuel to escape gravity, that's just physics.

Yes, exactly. A hypothetical Mars colony would have very little to trade with earth in terms of resources.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

It would be like farting at a hurricane and expecting it to shift trajectory.

If you fart on asteroid far away enough from the Earth, tiny change of it's trajectory would be enough for it to miss the Earth.

Yes, of course, it's a trivial effort, left as an exercise for the reader.

The issue with mining any kind of resources from another planet is the immense cost of returning them to Earth. 

You'll find that 100% of Space Nutters will always look at you like a Special Ed student when you mention "returning to Earth". Obviously, Space Minerals are to be used by Space Humans. You know, those vital populations of humans in free fall exposed to healthy Space Radiation and osteoporosis, huge demand for Space Diamonds there.

It's religious circular reasoning couched in pseudo-scientific language so that the engineer part of the brain doesn't notice right away.

So you are one of those "how dare we insignificant ants think we can change the course of mighty nature or avoid that asteroid that God sent here to punish us". Give me a break. Of course it would be possible to nudge a rock a bit if it looks like it will hit earth. And it would be worth all the money in the world if we can do it. Depends on the precise circumstances of course, we might not be able to prevent all possible asteroid impact scenarios, but we might just be able to divert the majority of dangerous asteroids... if we prepare for it.

No, otherwise washing your hands before surgery would be changing the course of nature too, wouldn't it?

You don't seem to understand that all the nonsense you're talking about is simply not possible, not now, not ever.

It's space garbage for children. Sometimes I read the stuff I wrote 25 years ago and it's the same shit you're writing now, word for word. Like a religious homily, or sermon.

[james_s]

You could build some really amazing looking houses on Mars out of solid gold bricks though

[In Vacuo Veritas]

The issue with mining any kind of resources from another planet is the immense cost of returning them to Earth. There could be a literal mountain on mars made entirely of stacks of gold bars and I'm not sure it would ever be worth going to get any of them. The cost of retrieval would likely exceed the value of the gold, and that's ignoring the fact that adding a large amount of gold would likely cause the price to drop. Helium is far lighter than gold, but even so I don't see how a significant enough quantity could be shipped back to Earth. Even if you can reuse the rocket, it still requires a massive amount of fuel to escape gravity, that's just physics.

Yes, exactly. A hypothetical Mars colony would have very little to trade with earth in terms of resources.

The amusingly desiccated corpses of Space Nutter suicides might fetch a good price for serious collectors.

You could build some really amazing looking houses on Mars out of solid gold bricks though

Naturally. I assume when Elon Musk retires with his Space Tesla in his 3D printed Space Condo, you'll toss some Space Meat on the Space Barbecue, and in the 15 seconds you'll have left to live, you'll laugh heartily at all those ridiculous flatfoots back on Earth with their breathable air and water.... 

[rdl]

The best thing to mine, as has been pointed out many times before, is probably going to be an asteroid. As far as deflecting asteroids, there are several viable and practical methods to do so using existing technology. Doing so successfully depends a lot on the asteroid, not Bruce Willis.

[james_s]

It would certainly be an interesting experiment to mine an asteroids, however I remain highly skeptical that it will ever be cost effective. It's probably worth giving it a try for the novelty and to learn anything we don't already know about asteroids but just don't expect it to be a profitable endeavor.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

The best thing to mine, as has been pointed out many times before, is probably going to be an asteroid. As far as deflecting asteroids, there are several viable and practical methods to do so using existing technology. Doing so successfully depends a lot on the asteroid, not Bruce Willis.

But of course! Just double the distance again, make everything work in free fall with fully automated space-rated machinery... Oh no wait, we'll send people with shovels, they can do so much more than machines, which is why we see so many mines with bare-handed people in them.

Funny how the Great Space Vision of the future is ... people working with shovels.

Viable! Practical! Deflecting asteroids! 

You can't even deflect incoming ICBMs with known trajectories with all the technology and resources of the entire planet. What do you hope to achieve against Space Doom?

Maybe if you pile your comic books high enough, it'll make a shield?

It would certainly be an interesting experiment to mine an asteroids, however I remain highly skeptical that it will ever be cost effective. It's probably worth giving it a try for the novelty and to learn anything we don't already know about asteroids but just don't expect it to be a profitable endeavor.

Why hasn't anyone "mined" seawater? It's viable! It's practical! 

[In Vacuo Veritas]

Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millennial_Project

This book was my Holiest of Holy Writings when I was stupid and in my larval stage. Now I read it when I need to howl with laughter until the tears come.

[rdl]

It costs a huge amount of money to put a ton of anything into orbit. Asteroids are already there.

It would certainly be an interesting experiment to mine an asteroids, however I remain highly skeptical that it will ever be cost effective. It's probably worth giving it a try for the novelty and to learn anything we don't already know about asteroids but just don't expect it to be a profitable endeavor.

[james_s]

It costs a huge amount of money to put a ton of anything into orbit. Asteroids are already there.

Sure, but it's not trivial to return something safely to earth either. All of the mining equipment as well as any cargo vessels for carrying the mined material will have to be launched into orbit. Maybe it would be worth it if we happen to find an asteroid made of solid gold, platinum or other extremely valuable and useful substance but I wouldn't bank on it.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

It costs a huge amount of money to put a ton of anything into orbit. Asteroids are already there.

It would certainly be an interesting experiment to mine an asteroids, however I remain highly skeptical that it will ever be cost effective. It's probably worth giving it a try for the novelty and to learn anything we don't already know about asteroids but just don't expect it to be a profitable endeavor.

Of course! They're already there! I suppose also they're already sorted by the periodic table of elements? They're THERE! Just go reach for the stars (well, dead rocks) and grab them! Or maybe you can just sit on one like the Little Prince and look at the stars?

What exactly do you think mineral ore is worth, and what use is it in space, where (news flash) there's NOBODY?

I think you fail to understand just how thinly spread things are out there. Do you think it's just like pure platinum and osmium boulders smashing into each other like in Star Wars, and you'll be Han Solo and fight the bad aliens and get the rocks to impress the Space Princess in your space mining ship?

More circular hope.

It costs a huge amount of money to put a ton of anything into orbit. Asteroids are already there.

Sure, but it's not trivial to return something safely to earth either. All of the mining equipment as well as any cargo vessels for carrying the mined material will have to be launched into orbit. Maybe it would be worth it if we happen to find an asteroid made of solid gold, platinum or other extremely valuable and useful substance but I wouldn't bank on it.

But you don't get it. It's for building things IN space, for all those brave colonists tempted by hard vacuum and cosmic rays! Space is just a giant Wal Mart, after all.

How valuable would gold be after you find an asteroid of it?

[In Vacuo Veritas]

The hope.

The reality.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

And the space is empty.

[apis]

It costs a huge amount of money to put a ton of anything into orbit. Asteroids are already there.

Sure, but it's not trivial to return something safely to earth either. All of the mining equipment as well as any cargo vessels for carrying the mined material will have to be launched into orbit. Maybe it would be worth it if we happen to find an asteroid made of solid gold, platinum or other extremely valuable and useful substance but I wouldn't bank on it.

Yeah, you couldn't exactly just trow it down to earth. I'm also sceptical but I haven't tried to make any calculations, too many unknowns.

[In Vacuo Veritas]

And the space is empty.

Uh, that could get you the Space Death Penalty in Space Court. Space is the Holy Manifest Destiny of Humanity, we'll just evolve to breathe solar wind and float among the neutrinos.

That is, if the evil Earth Flatfoots stop flinging their poo at your anti-matter-powered warp spaceship that everyone is preventing you from building.

You see, it's not physical limits or engineering problems holding us back from meeting voluptuous green-skinned temptresses on Mars, it's that part of humanity struggling to hold you back!

[apis]

You see, it's not physical limits or engineering problems holding us back from meeting voluptuous green-skinned temptresses on Mars, it's that part of humanity struggling to hold you back!

It seems like everything is very black or white to you, seems to be an emotionally loaded topic?

I don't really understand why you think we couldn't have a research base on the moon or mine an asteroid for resources that are very limited on earth just because colonising mars (the galaxy ) is a pipe dream?

[james_s]

I think having a research base on the moon is a neat idea, Mars could be interesting too but the moon is a whole lot closer and seems like a more reasonable first step. Mining an asteroid could certainly be interesting too, I'm just not sold on the fantasy of it turning into some wonderful sci-fi scenario where hundreds or thousands of people are spread across the galaxy or building a bustling community on another planet.

If we do find another habitable plane to spread the human race to then it will be a case of sending a few seeds (people) to grow a new batch somewhere else, it won't do anything to help the people on Earth. There is no practical way to rescue a significant number of people from some catastrophic event. My cynical side wonders if there is really a practical benefit to the universe from saving the human race by spreading our seeds to other worlds. In the grand scheme of things humans have existed for a miniscule period of time on a microscopic rock floating in space. What difference is it really going to make if the species survives once the earth is dead and gone?

[apis]

I don't think the universe cares one way or another. But if a new habitable planet were found within reach from earth I suspect it is inevitable that some group of humans will try to go there eventually. I think the temptation is just too great to resist. People have settled in most of the remote areas of the world that can sustain human life, for all kinds of reasons.