Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 38879 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #125 on: October 12, 2017, 01:06:10 pm »
No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #126 on: October 12, 2017, 01:52:27 pm »
so they know you typed "ls" ?
paranoid scum need to be eliminated as terrorists.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9810
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #127 on: October 12, 2017, 01:57:57 pm »
No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.
They can call home, as can pretty much everything in 10, but don't if telemetry is disabled. Then it's just the api that's present, but doesn't get called.

If it were any other way, it would be world headlines.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #128 on: October 12, 2017, 02:03:53 pm »
You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.

Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive

Also for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.

The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.

As for development tools, read this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 02:05:42 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline eugenenine

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #129 on: October 12, 2017, 02:23:26 pm »
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM

My daughter's laptop got the windows 10 'upgrade' from windows 7.  30 minutes into a reboot I turned it off and bought her a new laptop, 10 was that bad.  I formatted the drive and it boots slackware in about 30 seconds.
 

Offline eugenenine

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #130 on: October 12, 2017, 02:44:33 pm »
You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.

Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive

Also for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.

The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.

As for development tools, read this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

" I suspect many will not want to install .NET core for this reason, which is a shame because .NET core is otherwise cool"

Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #131 on: October 12, 2017, 02:58:34 pm »
did you read the comments on that link??

they also put spyware in visual studio.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #132 on: October 12, 2017, 03:44:55 pm »
Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.

From a technology standpoint it's pretty good. We were serving up to 15,000 requests/second from 8 front end web machines running about 5 million lines of horribly complex C# written by the lowest bidder talking to hundreds of web services all over the internet and internally (all also running .Net) and SQL Server databases. We also have desktop apps in it as well. Speed and resources are nowhere near the problems with it.

The problems are with the tooling, general friction getting simple shit done, privacy, lack of support and licensing costs. Which is why it's heading in the direction of other tech for us.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:47:29 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11632
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #133 on: October 12, 2017, 04:27:38 pm »
Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

mine can do that,
i have it downloading addblock lists.
https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware

i would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.

I suspect most modern routers can do pretty much anything but I think you way overestimate the capabilities of the elderly.  I know of people still using AOL.  I have a friend who's old XP PC finally gave out and we "upgraded" them to Windows 7.  Talk about a steep learning curve.   I don't think companies realize when their managers/marketing and developers change anything that has been a standard for years, just how it effects this group of people who just expect their PCs to work the same way they have for the last X years.  Try explaining to your grandma why MS decided to move all the menus in Word let alone telling them they need to reflash their router.   :-DD

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #134 on: October 12, 2017, 04:35:29 pm »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

and be able to just switch it off when they are done.
dont forget, the elderly like to unplug everything when not in use too.
 >:D
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11632
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #135 on: October 12, 2017, 05:14:21 pm »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

and be able to just switch it off when they are done.
dont forget, the elderly like to unplug everything when not in use too.
 >:D

If you're lucky you may join the ranks soon enough.   I'm just saying that having a product that would be easy for the average person to use may do well.  I am not aware of a turn key solution today that you can just plug in and forget about it.  I doubt the average person will ever attempt to reflash a router even if all the hard work has been done for them already.   

Offline HoracioDos

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Country: ar
  • Just an IT monkey with a DSO
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #136 on: October 12, 2017, 05:59:33 pm »
My daughter's laptop got the windows 10 'upgrade' from windows 7.  30 minutes into a reboot I turned it off and bought her a new laptop, 10 was that bad.  I formatted the drive and it boots slackware in about 30 seconds.

This morning I created a new VM with Windows 8.1 Pro under linux again to test it and I hated. It was not quick enough like win7 and I don't find a word to describe such UI. That's why I went from Win7 to Win10 in the first place. Programmers should be still asking for forgiveness. I'll leave the previous Win7 VM that I created yesterday. Almost perfect!
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #137 on: October 12, 2017, 06:23:48 pm »
lol
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/outlook_smime_bug/

same old excuse - whenever they get caught it was a "bug"
yes, in some way it was...... just not the way they meant!  |O
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #138 on: October 12, 2017, 06:56:38 pm »
That’s just total shit. How did they fuck it up that bad?
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #139 on: October 12, 2017, 07:34:03 pm »
that's my point, the fuckup was getting caught!!
 

Offline eugenenine

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #140 on: October 12, 2017, 07:45:20 pm »
Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.


Granted its been a few years since I was in that role but Windows core OS patches rarely broke compatibility but .NET patches did all the time, the devs were always having to change code after a .net patch.
 

Offline eugenenine

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #141 on: October 12, 2017, 07:49:19 pm »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

 >:D

Thats why I run Slackware.

Wait, does that make me elderly?
 :-//
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #142 on: October 12, 2017, 07:54:47 pm »
CentOS here. I did a bit of slack in the past. Anyone remember Bob?

lol
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/outlook_smime_bug/

same old excuse - whenever they get caught it was a "bug"
yes, in some way it was...... just not the way they meant!  |O

I worked for a defence contractor with UK CESG spooks dealing with the network side of things. They’d be pissed about this too. I think it was a genuine fuck up. The thing you have to worry about is the other actors who did notice it but chose not to disclose it or sold it on the darknet markets.

Then again perhaps that’s why they’re all still using Lotus Notes :)


Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.


Granted its been a few years since I was in that role but Windows core OS patches rarely broke compatibility but .NET patches did all the time, the devs were always having to change code after a .net patch.

There was only one big breaking change that I remember in the last 15 years which required a code change and that was because the HashTable algorithm was flawed and had an O(N^2) complexity which meant you could DoS attack the server with a crafted form post. If they had to change code lots then the dev team was shit :)
 

Offline eugenenine

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 865
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #143 on: October 12, 2017, 08:01:18 pm »
I moved into ITrisk in 2012 so it would have been before that.  Was multiple dev teams at different companies prior, they all hated when we did .net patches because they had to change things.
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #144 on: October 14, 2017, 11:36:29 am »
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #145 on: October 14, 2017, 12:10:16 pm »
Oh FFS another one!
 

Offline BrianHG

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7661
  • Country: ca
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #146 on: October 14, 2017, 01:18:28 pm »
What I would like to find is a tool Win10 which can wrap around my network hardware driver.  Let win10 think I don't have any network devices at all.  And, have a modified Firefox, and maybe 1 or 2 other remote network viewing tools with their own private internal link directly to those wrapped network drivers with a third party separate network protocol driver not made by M$.  I don't mind loosing all Win10 network functionality for privacy just to allow me to use my EDA tools in private uninterrupted leisure.

The added benefit will also be adobe acrobat not blabbing to adobe behind my back as well as many other unnecessary network crap.

I am well aware of how many software items will no longer function as today they require online access.

But, except for exploits within firefox, nothing else should be able to sen or get anything online.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #147 on: October 14, 2017, 01:31:20 pm »
Sounds like you need to run windows in a virtual machine on a Linux box. Use the EDA tools on the VM and all the communication stuff on the host machine.
 

Offline BrianHG

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7661
  • Country: ca
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #148 on: October 14, 2017, 01:46:31 pm »
Sounds like you need to run windows in a virtual machine on a Linux box. Use the EDA tools on the VM and all the communication stuff on the host machine.

I wont get the gaming performance of my 1080ti then.

The idea is to F--- M$ knowledge of any connected networks right down to the kernel level.  Then, only for the Win apps I want, allow them to use my private software network driver.
I need a solution I can distribute and install on any existing setup Win10 machine out there.
It needs to be a solution that there is nothing M$ can work around or do anything about.
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2153
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #149 on: October 14, 2017, 02:16:51 pm »
has anybody tried just patching all the i.p. addresses to 127.0.0.1 in the windows system??
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf