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Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 8066 times)

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Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #125 on: October 12, 2017, 06:00:28 PM »
...
This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.

OEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #126 on: October 12, 2017, 06:04:29 PM »
...
This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.

OEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.

If they accept USD and offer guaranteed working or refund, I see no reason the keys won't activate.
Also, softwarelicense4u has been around for quite a while.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #127 on: October 12, 2017, 07:47:32 PM »
For the trouble and cost on setting up a Linux firewall, why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential? The completely legit version is only ~$500, and the less legit OEM version can be obtained for ~$120.
End user installing OEM Windows is illegal in US, but I highly doubt MS will ever know it unless you run a company and someone blows the whistle. It's perfectly legal in EU.
I don't think a cheap Linux box plus human labor can be cheaper than $120, maybe not even $500.
I guess you won't be gaming or doing real time audio works on your high security engineering station, so server kernel should be good enough (it is less preemptive than non server kernel).
Why would you spend hundreds of dollars if excellent free products are available? You need to set things up in both cases and a firewall is one of those cases I think Linux has an edge, especially if a developer tailored the distro specifically to the purpose.

Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #128 on: October 12, 2017, 08:16:16 PM »
I think the idea is to get the new version of Windows but without all the extra garbage that Windows 10 is burdened with. That would probably be worth $120 to a lot of people. I wonder how well it would play with games. However, as I said, region locking could be an issue. True or not I don't know, but I've heard of people not being able to get Windows updates because of using a version outside it's intended region.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #129 on: October 12, 2017, 08:17:03 PM »
Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.

I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.
SIGSEGV is inevitable if you try to talk more than you know. If I say gibberish, keep in mind that my license plate is SIGSEGV.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #130 on: October 12, 2017, 08:27:11 PM »
I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.
Sorry, I misunderstood. It would be a huge disaster for Microsoft if they'd be caught doing that and the chances of discovery aren't slim with a lot of competent people working with the server versions, so I don't think they'd risk it.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #131 on: October 12, 2017, 08:58:06 PM »
Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

mine can do that,
i have it downloading addblock lists.
https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware

i would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #132 on: October 12, 2017, 10:10:59 PM »
I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
Ubuntu dropped it's own Unity Desktop and returned to Gnome this year. 18.04 LTS will be very interesting
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #133 on: October 12, 2017, 10:55:33 PM »
All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.

I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.

VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.

I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.

Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #134 on: October 12, 2017, 11:10:49 PM »
All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.

I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.

VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.

I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.

Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #135 on: October 12, 2017, 11:22:10 PM »
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #136 on: October 12, 2017, 11:33:47 PM »
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM
Better or worse is a qualification that depends on a lot of things. However, your comment seemed to imply that the VM was quick thanks to Windows 7, but 8.x or 10 shouldn't perform much worse. In theory Windows 10 should perform better, but in practice that difference is probably minute. Other properties of the OS have a much more profound impact on the experience and should therefore be the deciding factors.

Personally, I think Windows 8 strikes a nice balance between the two. It has quite a few of the optimizations of Windows 10, while lacking the nasty new features. If only people could look past the tiles  ::)
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #137 on: October 12, 2017, 11:40:32 PM »
Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.

I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.

i would assume the oposite, there is both big money and politics in corporate espionage.
it would be far more subtle than a keybuffer relay though.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #138 on: October 12, 2017, 11:46:52 PM »
Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.

With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.

Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #139 on: October 12, 2017, 11:51:29 PM »
Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.

With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.

Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.
You mean the telemetry api, I presume?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #140 on: October 13, 2017, 12:06:10 AM »
No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #141 on: October 13, 2017, 12:52:27 AM »
so they know you typed "ls" ?
paranoid scum need to be eliminated as terrorists.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #142 on: October 13, 2017, 12:57:57 AM »
No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.
They can call home, as can pretty much everything in 10, but don't if telemetry is disabled. Then it's just the api that's present, but doesn't get called.

If it were any other way, it would be world headlines.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #143 on: October 13, 2017, 01:03:53 AM »
You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.

Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive

Also for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.

The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.

As for development tools, read this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 01:05:42 AM by bd139 »
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #144 on: October 13, 2017, 01:23:26 AM »
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM

My daughter's laptop got the windows 10 'upgrade' from windows 7.  30 minutes into a reboot I turned it off and bought her a new laptop, 10 was that bad.  I formatted the drive and it boots slackware in about 30 seconds.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #145 on: October 13, 2017, 01:44:33 AM »
You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.

Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive

Also for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.

The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.

As for development tools, read this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

" I suspect many will not want to install .NET core for this reason, which is a shame because .NET core is otherwise cool"

Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #146 on: October 13, 2017, 01:58:34 AM »
did you read the comments on that link??

they also put spyware in visual studio.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #147 on: October 13, 2017, 02:44:55 AM »
Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.

From a technology standpoint it's pretty good. We were serving up to 15,000 requests/second from 8 front end web machines running about 5 million lines of horribly complex C# written by the lowest bidder talking to hundreds of web services all over the internet and internally (all also running .Net) and SQL Server databases. We also have desktop apps in it as well. Speed and resources are nowhere near the problems with it.

The problems are with the tooling, general friction getting simple shit done, privacy, lack of support and licensing costs. Which is why it's heading in the direction of other tech for us.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 02:47:29 AM by bd139 »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #148 on: October 13, 2017, 03:27:38 AM »
Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

mine can do that,
i have it downloading addblock lists.
https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware

i would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.

I suspect most modern routers can do pretty much anything but I think you way overestimate the capabilities of the elderly.  I know of people still using AOL.  I have a friend who's old XP PC finally gave out and we "upgraded" them to Windows 7.  Talk about a steep learning curve.   I don't think companies realize when their managers/marketing and developers change anything that has been a standard for years, just how it effects this group of people who just expect their PCs to work the same way they have for the last X years.  Try explaining to your grandma why MS decided to move all the menus in Word let alone telling them they need to reflash their router.   :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #149 on: October 13, 2017, 03:35:29 AM »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

and be able to just switch it off when they are done.
dont forget, the elderly like to unplug everything when not in use too.
 >:D
 


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